lllll
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Posts posted by lllll
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I'll try to offer something here, but I'm remembering as I go so keep that in mind. Our hs'ed dc are now ages 15, 17, 20, 23, and 25. (youngest 3 are daughters and oldest 2 are sons)
We began WTM back around 1999-2000 (?). So our dd's were spared the hodge podge of things we had been doing for the boys. They've been pretty much WTM the whole way.
We did pretty much the exact books on the hist/lit lists, summaries, etc., for all of it. They're still in the GB's for the rhetoric stage. That worked beautifully. In fact, 15yod and 17yod were commenting a couple weeks ago about how well it worked to read those children's versions of the GB's and then the logic versions and finally the rhetoric versions. I have to agree with them on that.
For science, we had always used library books anyway, so we kept on doing that and added summaries and such to that process. I didn't do much else there other than the occasional experiment. They did decide to do those rhetoric-stage books in WTM (I don't care for them, but they said they were OK). And for what it's worth, our now 20yod wanted to take a standardized test a year or so ago, so I gave her the IOWA from BJU and was very surprised that her science scores were in the high 90's. So if I had it to do over, I'd check out tons and tons of library books (children AND adult books) centered around the 4 general areas as outlined in WTM. Have'em read, write, experiment, etc., all the way through as far as you can take'em (without the math).
I also had them read some kind of history of sci. and some of the GB's as they got older. To keep it all in context.
For reading, I used WRTR because I already knew how to use it. To that, I used the R&S Pathway readers (K-4th or 5th) and Phonics Pathways. And all the library books I could find worth reading plus WTM lists.
For grammar, we used ABeka and are now using Moutoux's Diagramming books. I was very happy with this program. The only thing I would do differently here would be to have them do the grammar sections separately from the writing sections (=2 subjects). Most of our dc said the ABeka writing was the best of all the writing programs they had done. Better than WS, IEW, and I can't remember what else. Said it was clearly organized and made sense.
For languages, I'd completely redo that. Start as soon as they could talk, do MANY foreign languages while having the mastery of Latin as the goal by the high school years. I'd use Henle as soon as they could read and add various things to keep it interesting. I'd skip all the kiddie programs. Check out other foreign lang. programs galore from the library and let them 'play' with them, play them while they're playing, etc. Have one main program but take them through many, loosely.
I'd also have them start Biblical Greek and Hebrew as early as possible, the goal being to read their Bibles in the original languages.
For math, which was the "worst" of WTM, I'd completely redo that. I'd do R&S for the arithmetic and add in plenty of more 'thinking'-type problems from other books. Charon or Myrtle could probably offer better suggestions than I can for the little kids. (We use Charon's list for math now, but our dc are much older than yours.) We did mostly Saxon, but I wouldn't do that at all. I'd focus on one main program and add in MANY other kinds of things form many other books. Also, I've had our dc do math history, bios, make voc. cards and memory sheets, etc. It's a subject just like history or science, not a bunch of random facts strewn together like so many math curr. present it. The goal is to give it back its 'cohesiveness' and flow. You'll see this as you get into it more.
For art and music, I think of them in terms of the skill, the history & bios, the listening/looking, etc. I'd use WTM books and lots of other resources, too - constantly. Once they get into the 'habit' of doing art/music, they take off on their own. The idea is to help them make it a habit when they're young.
The "best thing about following" WTM has been the effect it's had on their ability to understand their Bibles. They know their history and they're not afraid to look things up and dig deep and research things they don't know. This is invaluable when it comes time to find a good church/preacher, etc. ...... they can 'think'. :)
A couple of other things you might need to know about all this though. I'm pretty sure none of this would have worked as well had we not ditched the TV and other electronic distractions ages ago. We also stopped all outside activities. In fact, I was thinking not long ago about how much time we wasted on running from one sporting event to another; sitting through shallow, poorly prepared sermons in shallow activity-oriented churches; attending stupid events for the 'socialization value'; and on and on. If I had it to do over I would love to get back all that TIME. What a waste it all was. What our dc really needed most of all was good solid Biblical training and US. It really is just that simple, IMHO.
HTH,
KathyP
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but I'm pathetic with computers. All I can tell you is to go to the member list, "K", about page 8, and look under ksva. Sorry.
KathyP
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I'm 52 now and trying to relearn Algebra, attempting Logic and Latin (never had either), reading some of the GB's for the first time ever, started Biblical Greek a year ago and just now got into something besides the alphabet (!), and so on. I find I have to read things like Latin and Greek and Logic over and over and over and... It also helps to write them over and over on paper, a small whiteboard, anything. I think I must have read the first few chapters in the Frank Allen Alg. I book about 6-8 times now. But eventually it begins to sink in and it's such a relief to know that my brain still works. :)
I also make note cards and drill myself. And I take notes, but find I have to read them over a couple times and then take notes from my notes!
I refuse to accept the idea that we're all essentially brain-dead after we leave our 20's. If that's the case, what's the use in trying *any*thing!?! I mean, for all I know I'm only halfway through my life at this point. ;)
So don't give up. Just keep playing around with it until you find what works best for you. You'll get it eventually, IMHO.
KathyP
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Bible = various versions + concordances + Bible dictionaries + hermeneutics + Modern Reader's Bible (ed. by Moulton - looks at Bible from lit aspect) + timelines + maps + globe + McGee + MacArthur + Puritan writings + bio's ... and so on
History = overlaps with Bible, but WTM, WEM, HTRB, KF, Oxford Companion to Classical Lit (I look up stuff in here *before* reading the GB), 1940's Encyclopedia Britannica (written like they thought their readers actually had functional brains!)
Greek = Basics of Biblical Greek by Mounce - simple and clear with answers to his workbook ex's on website
Latin = Henle (plenty of drill, answer book, takes you past elementary stages) + Wheelock's (hard, but more voc and better ancient writings than Henle) ...... the two complement each other well
Math = various histories of math (Smith, Cajori, etc.) in conjunction with the blurbs from encyclopedias + timeline + R&S (I use it as a drill program, very clear and organized) + Klaf's "Arithmetic Refresher" (keeps their brains nimble:) + NEM (also keeps brains nimble - in arith ... not mathematics) + Adrian's list (for the real math - hard, but fun) + any and every old math books of all kinds (15yod found a 1960's Alg. book by Welchon and Krickenberger that's lots of fun. She's doing this before she does the Frank Allen book that her sisters are doing.)
Logic = histories of various kinds along with encyclopedias, etc. + old books by people like Isaac Watts, Jacques Maritain, etc. + Patrick Suppes's books (Adrian again. Haven't done them yet, but I really didn't care for the IL and TL series much. They did them, but there has got to be something better, IMHO.)
Grammar = ABeka (lots of practice, good writing sections, etc., but not enough diagramming practice) + Moutoux's sentence diagramming books
Spelling = WRTR (hard to use, but was able to take the teacher's training for free back in the '80's) + Phonics Pathways (used it as a reader, along with R&S's Pathway Readers) + Spelling Power (too random for me, but great lists - we still use this a couple times a week)
Writing = WS (used it, but too scattered for me) + IEW (too expensive and time consuming, what with the videos and all, but dc liked it - never finished it) + some things from Memoria Press by Matt ? where dc rewrote fairy tales and such (dc really liked those) + got rid of all distractions such that things could come OUT of their brains vs always being cluttered INTO their brains :)
Rhetoric = Elements of Style (*I* didn't get it, but dc did.) + Rulebook (not too intimidating for the youngers) + Edgar Roberts book for the high school group ... name escapes me + Oxford (too scattered for me and some of examples were disgusting, but had dc skim it - still not clear whether it was worth it) ..... They haven't finished using all our rhetoric materials, so can't comment on rest.
Science = WTM's basic idea + GB's + encyclo's + hist + odds and ends
Can't remember the art and music right now.
HTH,
KathyP
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But here are a few ideas that may help to reduce the stress.
Our dc do all their regular subjects on Mon - Thurs (and sporadically during the weekends), but Fridays are open for longer projects. We decided to do this because they said it was impossible to write those longer papers in the hour or so time slots for each subject. Dh and I decided they could take Friday to spend all day writing, doing hobbies, catching up on library work, etc.
I also told them to try to arrange their schedules so that they were finished with most of their basic stuff by 1pm, which is when we begin our group Bible stuff (tape, hermeneutics or bio or Puritan readings, etc.). On Monday and Thursday, we also do group spelling and grammar from 2 to 2:30. Some were able to rearrange to finish and others weren't, but it seemed to help some of them feel less rushed.
Also, I try to notice when they're getting that 'I need a break' look and get them to schedule in their own breaks; or I declare an overall break for all of us. I recently declared a 2 week Spring Break when they began talking about all the things they had to do like build a chicken coop for the new chicks, till and plant the garden, clean up the winter collection of junk around the yard, etc. And when dh is off, we're all automatically off. We can't concentrate when he's home and he usually has things they have to help him with - like next week he's off and they're all cutting wood for next year's heat.
Finally, after hs'ing since about 1988, I finally realized a few years ago that there is no perfect schedule. They change constantly. They change when the seasons change. They change as dc finish one subject and start another. They change when I find a better resource and they have to go through the 'start up' period. They change because it's hunting season, or vacation, or we need to increase our math time, or because they're getting older and they can spend longer on each subject, etc. And they're learning how to anticipate these kinds of things and make the changes for themselves without my always initiating it (as part of maturing, I guess you could say).
Anyway, maybe I'll have time to post some current schedules here.
HTH,
KathyP
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We are also reading aloud history of math books (from our encyclopedias, Smith, Cajori, etc.). We spend about 15 min on it at some point during our group math time. We'll insert a primary source at the point at which it comes in the math hist. bk. They summarize and insert it into their math notebooks. We'll also do bio's when we can find good ones. They do this in all their other subjects, why should math be any different.
They were reading the math hist. books by themselves, but getting bogged down in the detailed math which is inserted every so often. So we are now reading it together and stopping more often.
We also have plenty of other math books around to cross-reference a topic, find extra problems, etc. I figure we've spent so many years emphasizing lang. arts type things (grammar, writing, history, etc.), maybe it's time to do the same for math. WTM it.
Finally going home (after a disastrous computer day).
Thanks again Susan,
Kathy P
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