Teachin'Mine
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Posts posted by Teachin'Mine
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Sebastian, one of the ways you can see how a college handles financial aid is to look at the percent of students awarded financial aid and the average percent of aid. These numbers are available for freshmen and for the total student body. When the percent is high for the freshman and considerably lower for the total student body, you've probably got one of those bait and switch situations. You may notice a lower graduation rate than you'd expect for the caliber of the school as well. Then you can read student reviews on several sites and look specifically for comments on student aid. Often times you'll hear students needed to transfer for financial reasons, or they had to move off campus, work more hours, and are living on ramen noodles. Some colleges even have a food pantry for the students who are often going hungry. Another clue about how the college treats their students is to take a look at alumni donations. Some colleges graduate students with incredible earning potential, but despite their large incomes they don't support their alma mater.
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There are some schools who are sort of known for a "bait and switch" type of approach with regard to Financial Aid. Not naming any names, but that reputation can exist. More is given for the freshman year than in subsequent years. Grants go down and self-help (via increased work study AND the expectation of increased loans) goes up. Yes, I realize that one must file a FAFSA every year and the amountof FA is subject to change given changes in financial circumstances, but I do think some schools play this game. This is why getting the most MERIT aid is the best way to go because it is usually guaranteed for four years as long as certain standards are maintained.
Or for those students who need a lot of financial aid and are top students, apply to the extremely generous top colleges. They're not the ones doing the bait and switch, but just a few rankings down and you'll find those who claim to meet 100% but don't, and are likely to offer even less aid after the first year. If you can't afford what they offer for the first year, the situation is unlikely to improve in subsequent years.
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I agree with sitting up front as you won't be distracted by what others are doing and really won't even feel like there's a whole class there as you just see those near you and the professor. I think you'll be surprised by how many others similar in age and circumstances will likely be in your classes. Avoid the oft mentioned denim jumper and you should blend in just fine! Look for someone else who looks nervous about their first day (there should be plenty of them there) and start up a small conversation about the class, the text, the registration process, or whatever. It doesn't matter what their age is, if they're sitting towards the front you've already got a lot in common. You're both there to learn. : ) For figitiness I remember Nan talking about kneading some clay or something. Maybe you could get one of those kneadable erasers to keep one hand busy while the other's taking notes. It's small enough that it shouldn't even be that noticeable. You can also bring a water bottle and sip on that as needed during the class
Will your son be working in the library or the student center? It's a great way for him to get an introduction to a college campus too. Sounds like it's going to be a great semester!
One last thing. Read your signature line. Don't aim for blending in ... be bold and wear some bright, happy colors! : )
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Yes, he completed Saxon 8/7 this year and he will be in pre-algebra next. He didn't score high enough on tests to justify skipping pre-algebra. Had he scored better, that would be a different scenario.
Everything I say is just my opinion and I haven't dealt with this situation, but in looking at the numbers, I'd find it hard to draw a line between 80 and
79.3(edited 79.2), especially if the errors were just due to carelessness and not due to conceptual problems. Again, just my opinion. Since you already have Saxon Algebra 1/2, have you considered just giving your son the tests over the summer allowing him to test out? I'd make it very clear that it's in his best interest to be careful and to write down all the steps as you'll be deciding which level he'll go to next. You could do the same thing with a different publisher's text if you've decided to switch from Saxon. What does he want to do?We had the opposite situation. Dd finished 8/7 and did well enough to move on, but I thought the next level was Algebra 1/2. I thought she was just too young to go to algebra. I spoke with a math teacher at Saxon publishing and they strongly suggested she move on. Dd did not want to repeat anything. I told her we'd do algebra but would always have the option of dropping back to Algebra 1/2. The teacher and my dd were right.
The one thing I would suggest you work on with him, whichever level and whichever text, is writing down all the steps. It's important IMO to get the steps down in writing even when it's easy to do in their head, because eventually the problems will become too complex for that.
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If he lost points mostly for careless errors, I wouldn't repeat pre-algebra. I'd probably try doing something different as far as helping him to concentrate and giving him incentive to finish quickly and with fewer errors. I agree that the carelessness is likely just an age issue. I'd make math the first subject of the day and then give him some computer time, or something he'd like, for a few minutes afterward as a reward. Maybe tie the number of minutes to the number of lesson problems he gets done correctly. I'm not a fan of grading daily math work, but it could serve as an incentive if he gets one minute for each of the thirty problems solved correctly. Might work, might not. lol
We used Saxon all the way through, and it worked well, so I'm a fan. I don't know what he's doing for science, but is he able to apply the math well there? Can he do the significant figures well, measurement conversion, etc? If so, I'd probably not switch math programs, but it doesn't hurt to look at some over the summer and see if there's something he'd prefer. I wouldn't make him do Algebra 1/2 as the review would likely be torture and make his problems of getting through the lessons even worse. Some students like challenges and he should get that with algebra.
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What was his percentage on the tests from 8/7?
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I have no experience with DO or PA Homeschoolers, but if community college is an option, I'd suggest that.
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Wow! Thank you all for your experiences and insights, especially Nan. They are very helpful. For what it's worth, I must have said something to imply that he wasn't going to take the SAT subject tests, but he definitely is going to take math 2 and either chemistry or physics. It sounds like you're saying it would be a good idea to take a third one as well. The main question was whether to retake the SAT. Based on everything you all have said here, it sounds like he sould take both and then apply during regular admissions. He will be in the midst of his 3rd community college class by then--one chemistry, one game design, and the one next fall will be an A+ server certification course. He made an A in the chemistry class, so that's good.
One more question regarding the SAT subject tests if I may: How many can one take in one day? I've been trying to find that out on the college board website and have not been able to do so.
Three can be taken at once and each one is an hour long.
My reply above was a quick one after reading your post, and while I would still recommend trying the ACT, I agree with Kathy that he would likely fare better waiting for regular admission. Dd didn't apply to CalTech so I have no info as to their flexibility, but I would make sure to provide them with all the required testing. I wouldn't ask them to waive the SAT II requirement unless he had extensive college courses in math/computer science and physical sciences.
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I see 8Fill beat me to it! I would definitely take the physics and math II level 2 subject tests and the ACT. I know that many of the highly selective colleges stick to their requirements about the subject tests, but some offer some leeway. Dd was admitted to some which require 2 SAT subject tests, but they likely considered her college courses. The standardized tests are supposed to test for mastery and/or aptitude/college readiness, and IMO succeeding in college courses in high school does that too.
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Just like homeschooling, different families, and even different students, different policies. Dd is earning her money for books and discretionary spending, so all I do is make suggestions or give her things to consider, but the choices are hers to make. I can thoroughly understand parents who are footing the bill not wanting to allow it to become a free for all situation.
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I wonder about comparing systems to systems. Large university systems know exactly how many kids are enrolled in their remedial courses.
For example, "All first-time students at all 23 CSU campuses must meet these standards, principally through performance on a common statewide placement examination. Despite systemwide admissions policy that requires a college-preparatory curriculum and a grade point average in high school of B or higher, 68% of the 50,000 entering freshmen at CSU campuses require remediation in English language arts, or math, or both. "
http://www.highereducation.org/reports/college_readiness/gap.shtml
There is definitely going to be huge shifts in % depending upon the selectivity of the school.
And many of the California State Colleges are asking students to attend community colleges first to get the remediation they need.
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Great news! I know a lot can be done online, but IMO it's always helpful to go to the campus and talk with people directly. You can find what paperwork he'll need for registration online and bring it with you, and can schedule his placement test. After the test, he can speak with an advisor and go to the career services to find out what they have available. A course which focuses on career options is a great idea as is the study skills one. Personally, I'd make sure he has a history course he'd enjoy that first semester. If your community college offers an honors course, I'd suggest he take the honors version for history at least. The students there will be more enthusiastic about the course content, the professors are the best on campus, and there's more discussion and active participation.
No info about reserves, but I wouldn't recommend it if he doesn't want to possibly end up in a conflict. If he's considering it for help with the finances, he should check with his human resources dept at work about possible reimbursement for tuition. To help him feel more connected on campus, I'd suggest he look into clubs and organizations to join. Getting him interested in classes and involved on campus would be my main goals. He'll likely take off from there.
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I think the numbers are probably fairly accurate. We're not talking about those attending very selective private colleges, because those typically don't even offer any remedial courses. The initial figures took into account all college students, whereas the disputed figures are talking about first time in college students. The reality is that many college students are not in college for the first time. This is what's in the linked article:
On Page 8 of this NGA document, the following claim is made:
…approximately 40 percent of all students and 61 percent of students who begin in community colleges enroll in a remedial education course at a cost to states of $1 billion a year.Really? The U.S. Education Department’s National Center for Educational Statistics report (NCES) puts the latest figure of the overall remediation rate for first-year college students at 20 percent.
More than likely both of those figures are accurate, but they're "measuring" two different things. Anyone who is familiar with the demographics at community colleges would likely agree with the first figure of 61% needing some type of remediation. Even for students who took math through pre-calc or so years ago, when they return to college, they often need to begin math at a remedial level as a lot has been forgotten. And some of the first year students chose community college as their academics weren't sufficient for other colleges. I would assume if the overall rate for first years is 20%, then the rate for first years at community colleges is far higher than that. Basically you can't compare a study of all students with one targeting first year students. JMO.
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This is something we hadn't done, and in hindsight, it would made for a less stressful March. Can't beat that the scholarship is guaranteed just based on scores and GPA. Also saw they have a water slide and a lazy river! Encouraging all who will be applying to colleges this year to apply to at least one or tow of these safeties and then the waitlisting and denials won't be so bad. lol Thankfully dd had some great acceptances, but this step should not have been skipped. I had assumed that even UA with the full tuition scholarship would be too expensive as we'd need to pay room and board, but have since learned that there are other departmental scholarships available.
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Many college programs are available to high schools student, and some of these are free to low income students. These applications begin early in the school year, so it's a good time now to consider some options. This list isn't comprehensive, but it's a good place to start. Most of these free programs are highly competitive and well regarded. Applications are free so there's nothing to lose, and it's good practice for college applications.
http://www.fastweb.com/college-search/articles/787-summer-programs-for-high-school-students
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Funnily enough it's more relief than anything else. Of course there's excitement, but it's just been such a long haul.... Fizzy wine and steaks for supper.
L
You mean there's some truth to the more reserved nature of those across the pond? lol jk I can certainly understand the feeling of relief though. I love the term "fizzy wine"! You obviously did an amazing job as Calvin's teacher. Congratulations to both of you!
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Laura, when you get a chance, please describe the scene at your house when he got the news. I have a feeling that "Phew" is an understatement!
Party on!
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Especially for those who are lower income and/or URMs, now is the time of year when colleges are providing applications for free fall visits. Each college will have different requirements, but it's a great way for the student to spend time on campus at schools they may be interested in attending. Many of these programs are overnight and the flights are free as well.
Here's a link to a list of some colleges which offer this opportunity.
http://getmetocollege.org/hs/2014-diversity-college-weekends-free-fall-visits-for-rising-seniors
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Congratulations Calvin!
:hurray: :party: :hurray:
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Creekland I know you'd change a lot there if you could. Change starts slowly and you've planted the seed. I'm guessing that your son will be swept up with the excitement of learning in his areas of interest and will step up to the plate. Even if his high school didn't provide a challenge, his time homeschooling and working at home have taught him that hard work pays off. That lesson will likely carry through to his college work and he'll swim ... literally too!
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Just some thoughts ...
Dual enrollment taught in the high school by a high school teacher would seem to defeat the purpose of taking a college class.
No textbooks being used in any of the classes is absurd.
The type of help I was referring to is a college study skills type of class which is ideally taken during the first semester or the summer before.
Being pulled from a class to attend a program to help the student is definitely counterproductive.
Review sessions before a final are great for clearing up any questions (for the students who have been working all semester and have studied).
Creekland your school district, and likely many others, needs an overhaul starting in the elementary schools.
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Local control being over-ridden is good in our case. It's the locals who see nothing at all wrong with status quo and who are resistant to change. Our new state tests and state standards ARE shifting our classes in a good direction - more is being covered. More expectations are being made. But... it is a long and difficult road shifting local attitudes.
It's not just "me" who has noticed. Our school got a college counselor in due to one of those "Teach for America" types of deals. He couldn't believe what he saw. He started an SAT prep class only to find out he had to not prep the students, but teach the math - to kids who were getting As in their classes. I told him, "Welcome to my world!" He saw kids who were top of their class thinking they'd go to Ivy schools with an 1800 SAT score - thrilled that they broke 600 in a section or two.
He did his best to try to both counsel kids and see if "the system" could be changed even a tiny bit. Then his funding ran out. Our school tried to keep him and even did a local fundraiser to raise his salary, but it didn't work... locals aren't interested in such shenanigans and few believe kids here can "do it." He's gone now (sigh) with no replacement.
In our school, if a question in a math class trips up too many kids, we don't make the material change to teach it better. We drop the question from the test.
We have talented youngsters taking the same class as 12th grade "need a credit" students. The class has to be dumbed down so those needing a redit can pass. It certainly isn't an option to make it tougher to prepare the talented students. I'm doubtful many of the teachers could handle tougher material TBH.
In English they regularly read books well below grade level to keep all classes level (4th grade level in 8th grade). All papers are done in class rather than at home. That's a lot of instructional time lost while they are researching and typing. Many times reading time is given in class too - and let's not forget watching the movie version of the book.
I have yet to see any racism or classism come into play at all in our school when it comes to classes or expectations. That is the one good thing about it. The teachers/admin do try and many are sincere. They just really have no clue what "good" schools can do (material, expectations, etc) and if discussed, they are firm that "it can't happen here with our kids!" (meaning, of course, that all those "better" kids simply live elsewhere - ours must be inferior or something.) It's not true. It's just kids who start from elementary on with low expectations.
Well... even our cc classes (DE) are NOT up to par with college classes my youngest has sat in on. We do offer them and have had kids get As in them only to still test into remedial math/English.
We have taught our students that homework is only necessary if there is a reward (grade) and that reward can be obtained just as easily by copying or writing down mush (since they "tried"), so why bother with the "work" part?
Our kids have excellent copying and following directions skills (as long as the directions are step by step and do not require thought). They totally miss concepts of what they are doing or are supposed to be learning. Things are memorized for the test and forgotten soon thereafter as the "knowledge" was never truly learned (just listen to the complaints if you put a test off for a day - "But I won't KNOW the material then!!! I studied for today!").
And this is normal. So when the ACT/SAT are mixed questions - they don't know which thought they memorized that is supposed to be used for these mixed problems - even if they could do just fine on a test where the questions were more or less known ahead of time. And many times the test is exactly what the practice test (homework) was - not even changed numbers. How much effort does that take?
Our kids are getting As, but stepping over very low bars, then they are taken off guard when tossed into the true high jump in college.
It's sad. It happens in math, English, and science - likely history too, since some of the final exam questions for world history were such basic items as "Who was Hitler?" My kids were able to score 90% (missed two) on the World History final before they even took the course. I forgot the second question they missed, but the first asked which nation the Industrial Revolution started in. (If I were to search very old threads, I could come up with the actual final as I typed it in at the time.)
Your post describes your school's unfortunate situation so well, but I just can't seem to "Like" it. How incredibly sad as your whole community is impacted.
As far as your community college classes not being on par, at least the students who take the classes will still need to learn how to schedule classes, talk with professors, start or join study groups, hand in assignments on time, navigate the college's email, registration, notification, etc. system, get to class on time, read and follow a syllabus, etc.. These are all great skills to have before college, and if they find they are having trouble, it gives them time to get help so those same problems don't prevent them from succeeding after graduation. Not all community colleges are equal, and not all courses within a college are equal, and not all diplomas from colleges are equal. Those who seek a challenge should be able to find it at most colleges, but of course there are always exceptions. Even if a course isn't on par, they will still have the knowledge they gained and a class taught at a more rigorous level will be easier for them because of their previous exposure to the material. I'll bet that yours have gone into college with more confidence because of their community college experiences.
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This is probably one of the main reasons why I feel so strongly that high school students can benefit so much from dual enrollment. IMO all students who are planning on any type of college after graduation should take at least a course or two so they learn what's required to succeed in college. They're still at home with some parental oversight, and they enter their freshman year with some skills and insights that they wouldn't have had otherwise. The more rigorous high school is, the more seamless the transition, but unfortunately many high schools just don't provide that level of challenge.
I thoroughly agree that any college skills/prep courses or programs should be open to all interested students no matter what their economic situation or level of their parents' education. I would think that a questionnaire combined with some testing, or their test scores, could help to identify these students.
Because we often discuss the issue of college debt...
in The College Board
Posted
According to Student Reviews, the percent of students who would choose not to return is 66.7 and 55.3 respectively.