melmac
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Posts posted by melmac
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No, thank you. :)
Thanks so much for responding. I think you *get* what I'm talking about. I appreciate your help and all the work you've put into your site. What a blessing.
I can't wait to start using this with my son. He's such a great reader, but struggles with spelling. We just started Sequential Spelling a few weeks ago and it is helping a lot, so that gave me hope that this child *can* learn to spell. I think the addition of your site and resource links may be the perfect combination.
Thanks again. :grouphug:
Thank You!My spelling improved after learning phonics (I only got a bit of phonics in K, then Dick and Jane in 1st grade.) I was a good reader, but a poor speller, until I was in my 20's. Then, after tutoring with phonics and learning the sound/spelling correspondences and all the phonetic spelling rules, I became a pretty good speller. The spelling movies have most of the rules, and the phonics lessons have the same rules as the spelling lessons, they just move at a slower pace than the spelling lessons.
The Pollard Books and a new great find from Don Potter also have a lot of rules (free from Google books.) Pollard is about 3/4 of the way down, and the other book is at the end, the 2nd to the last book, it's called "The Spelling-Book Consisting of Word in Columns and Sentences for Oral and Written Exercises Together with Prefixes, Affixes, and Important Roots from the Greek and Latin Languages" by William D. Swan (1854)
http://www.donpotter.net/education_pages/spelling_books.html
I link to Pollard as well, and also have a link to her teacher's Manual, it's linked from my page as well as Don's page, here's my link of good free and cheap phonics and spelling books:
http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Reading/phonicsandspelli.html
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I kinda thought Tues seemed a bit heavy, too. I may move worldview to Wed.
No, I'm not planning to skip the weeks without SOTW scheduled. I figured with what I've seen so far, we would just concentrate on what is scheduled, like the bible stories, probably just read those and discuss some. Possibly bring over some of the sections of KHE not outlined (I can't see assigning so many sections when there are 3 to 4 chapters of SOTW Scheduled in for one week). So those may be opportunities to outline some sections not previously assigned.
I'm sure I'll probably be making adjustments to this schedule down the road, I put this together just to get us going and was hoping for opinions, like yours that point out things I need to think about a bit more.
If you have any other thoughts or suggestions feel free to let me know.
Thank you very much for your help. I really, really appreciate it. :)
Tuesday seems a bit heavy, but overall I think the plan will work. One question through. Are you going to skip the weeks where TOG doesn't have any SOTW chapters scheduled?Heather
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That sounds like it's working well for you all. The premise is similar to Sequential Spelling, we do 25 words per day, lots of review and learning to spell the words rather than memorizing. I need to add in the phonics like you're doing. Do you have a phonics resource to recommend? Thanks! :)
My 10 y dd has really struggled with spelling and so I ditched all the curriculums and have gone to only dictation. It has done wonders. We have tried list-style programs only to see 100% on the tests and error in her writing. Her confidence has dramatically increased as she has to write a paragraph each day. Here is the general idea:I pick out passages of 2-4 sentences. She reads the passage several times and notes which words might be difficult for her. I am working through selections from Hilyer's A Child's History of the World. Here's an example:
The passage is:
At first, however, our world, or Earth, was nothing but a ball of rock. This ball of rock was wrapped around with steam, like a heavy fog. Then the steam turned to rain, and it rained on the world, until it had filled up the hollows and made enormously big puddles. These puddles were the oceans. The dry places were bare rock.
First day: She reads the passage several times. She copies the passage. Then I dictate it to her. She misses these words: however, wrapped, heavy, hollows, enormously, puddles. We talk about the words: however is a combination of how and ever, wrapped (double the consonant when adding past tense -ed, I chose not to teach her about "short" and "long" so omitted discussing it at this time), -ous of enormously means "full of" so the word means full of enormity, etc.
She studies the words. I have her underline the spellings for each sound: wrapped would be wr a pp ed. She says the sounds as she writes. I have her write the words 5-10 times. Then she copies the passage, including all the corrected spelling words. This takes 4 tries. (She's a tough, lovable, brilliant, nut to crack!)
Second day: Dictate the passage. She misses: wrapped, hollows, enormously. Study again. Copy again. Oh, she can now say the passage verbatim.
Third day: She starts throwing in some omission errors: tured for turned, seam for steam, etc. and misses enormously. We talk about ways to remember enormously and she decides to read it as /e-nor-mouse-ly/as she studies the word. Studies words. Copies. Require her to reread her writings by sound then word rather than by word alone (I know that doesn't make much sense, but it sounds like /a/ /t/ /at/ /f/ /ir/ /s/ /t/ /first/ /ou/ /r/ /our/ . . . she hates it but she catches her letter omissions that way)
Fourth day: Gets it right. Now I am going to through her for a loop and have her write some sentences with the words she missed over the week. Misses hollows as "hollowes." We talk about adding -s for plurals (again).
Fifth day: Dictation and sentences. Gets them right.
Add another passage next week. I throw some old passages in on occasion for review.
This actually gets her learning more words than the list method, which at most I was doing 20 words a week. Some words she just has to go over and over and others she learns more quickly. I can see that this is working much better because her general writing is improving. She is also wanting to write more, I think because she is feeling more confident. She has to write so much now that it feels natural.
The list method worked as far as a spelling test went but would never seem to cross over into her writing. With the dictation method, it is, because she is practicing what she needs to be doing: writing words in context.
The benefits of this method are:
1) The words are learned in a meaningful context. Meaning and spelling are linked.
2) It is efficient. It eliminates the work that is not producing effect (lists and tests) and has them practicing the skills spelling is meant for (using the words in context).
3) Its free!
4) It focuses effort on the words the child does not know. Patterns and rules can be addressed as they come up, in a word specific way. For example, my daughter had the word 'edition' to work on and she missed the spelling of 'tion'. We talked about the meaning of the word-part 'tion' in which it changes a verb to a noun, connecting it to the word 'edit'. The /t/ sound of the word 'edit' helps remind her that the /sh/ sound in 'edition' is spelled with a 'ti'. If you don't feel confident with breaking words down yourself, a rule based spelling program used as a supplement would work. Just use the rule parts, not the spelling list parts. Keep track of the rules in a notebook and then you can refer to them as you work through words.
5) Frequently needed words are written over and over and over and over because they are in all the passages.
Melissa
Reading Program Junkie
dd(10) dd(6) ds(5) ds(1)
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ETC did work great for learning to read, which is what we used it for. We've never used it for spelling, as we didn't start spelling until we had finished ETC. I can't afford AAS and he is doing well with Sequential Spelling so far. I think we may use the videos on The Phonics Page and see how that goes. Thanks for your help. :)
I think if you have him watch the lessons on The Phonics Page you might start to see a difference. They are free, so you have nothing to loose.If ETC didn't/hasn't worked I would think he wont benefit much from a review of that. He may need something more systematic and rules based. All ABout Spelling would cover those bases too.
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My son is an excellent reader, but he struggles with spelling. We used ETC when he was younger learning to read and SWO shortly therafter up until about a year ago because it just wasn't working for him, then we tried other spelling programs and have decided to stick with SS.
So, I feel we really do need to work on the mechanics for spelling, and I think a review of phonics, this time concentrating on it for spelling rather than for learning to read would be helpful to him.
Something I could just pick up whenever he has trouble with a word from his spelling list and go over the phonics and rules with him would be nice. I'm not looking to spend another two to three years of actually doing phonics again. And I did mention that it wouldn't do any harm for his reading skills as well in my OP, but he really is an excellent reader, so that's not a concern, the spelling is.
See, I don't think remedial *phonics* will help improve *spelling*.You could use something like Spalding or SWR, which will improve spelling *and* reading skills simultaneously (children learn to read by learning to spell).
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We're in the first week of our first year of TOG, doing D level mostly but with a little UG here and there for my 5th grader. I also have a 2nd grader, but we're just going to do SOTW and a few literature books thrown in here and there.
I've been going back and forth in my mind between the positives of doing Logic stage with TOG or doing it TWTM way. For some reason, I've been looking at them as either/or, but last night it occurred to me that there probably is a way to do both, to take the best of both worlds and mix them together.
So, I came up with this schedule and if any of you would be so kind to give me your opinions good or bad, I'd really appreciate it. Am I missing something? Overdoing something? I really want honest opinions and appreciate you taking your time to help me out.
Our school week runs Tuesday through Saturday.
Saturday: Assign literature and in-depth History books, (I borrowed this idea from Karenciavo), picking and choosing from TOG and TWTM lists
Tuesday: Read SOTW
Assign corresponding pages in KHE and have ds outline them,
one sentence per paragraph
Read worldview selection
Wednesday: Orally go over vocabulary words (we don't use a Voc program, so I think this would be beneficial)
Fine arts
Thursday: Geography- Find all locations on map, globe and in atlas, do corresponding mapwork from SOTW AG, pick and choose assignments from TOG where appropriate for us
Friday: Orally go over other half of Vocabulary
Fill in timeline
Aim to have all assigned books finished by Saturday
Saturday: Discussion
Have ds prepare written summaries on at least two topics
Everyday: Check to be sure ds is reading his assigned books, maybe read some with him.
Hands on projects as we can.
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I have decided to use TOG and TWTM way together for logic stage. I'll most likely go TWTM way for HS (I still have four years to decide) :).
Thanks to everyone for your help.
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Wow, I'm amazed with the Phonics Page. What a great site. :)
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Thank you both. :)
Does anyone know if ETC or PP or Abeka Handbook for Reading would work? I already own them. I really don't want to use something that will take a long time, I'd like to use something that could be a quick review and give me the chance to work with ds on anything that hasn't clicked this far.
I'm going to google the site mentioned above and check it out. Thanks again. :)
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Not so much for reading (although I'm sure it wouldn't do any harm :)), but mainly for my struggling 5th grade speller. We're using Sequential Spelling and it is helping a lot. I just would like to review the phonics because I think it would help, as well. Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. It doesn't have to be specifically for remediation, even just a full phonics program that would work well would be fine. Thanks! :)
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Right now, I'm really struggling between doing TOG or just doing SOTW again with Kingfisher and book list from TWTM for my 5th grader, R & S Bible Study and something for geography. I feel like I'm really being pulled towards the SOTW path more than TOG. This, after spending weeks putting together a schedule for TOG.
What are the major advantages of using TOG instead? I realize there is tons of Literature, almost an overwhelming amount. Lots of suggestions for geography activities, but no recommendation of any books to use for them. Lots of Bible reading. I don't know.
The Discussion questions are nice to have, the book choices for all levels in one place is nice, too. I'm just really struggling with this decison.
I'd love to hear anyone's opinions. I'm really trying hard to decide and would appreciate any help.
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What about geography? Would you suggest using the map work in the SOTW Activity Guide? Or something else? Hoping you'll answer, I know you're a busy woman. :)
If you want to use SOTW with an older child, you can use the Kingfisher History Encyclopedia cross-references in the SOTW Activity Guides. At the beginning of each chapter, we list the pages in the Kingfisher book that line up with the SOTW chapter. Add in the readings from the logic-stage history chapter in TWTM and you'll have brought the difficulty level of SOTW up to an appropriate middle-grade level.SWB
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This helps a lot, thank you. I was hoping it could/would replace some books needed. Our library is awful. Thank you! :)
We got a free set of World Book 1993, and Encyclopedia Britannica 1985. I was ecstatic, because I'd read that in WTM, too. Ds is in 5th grade this year. So far, we don't use the EB much, the WB gets more use, just because of how it words things. However, if I only had EB, I'd make it work. I'd help him find parts of articles that aren't so hard for an 11 yo to understand and that are interesting to him.We use it every week. After ds has read his spine topic in history or science for the week, the next stop is the encyclopedias (esp. if we don't have library books out on the topic yet). Let's say he reads a spread in the Kingfisher history book. I will say to him, "OK, what interested you in that spread?" He'll tell me, and then go look up that topic in the encyc. - then we use the article to do an outline or a narration. I'd say they get used 3 or 4 times a week, esp. on weeks when we don't have library books.
As for the set dates, I don't care right now that they are old - ds is getting experience looking things up and using them as references and getting writing practice. I hope in high school to get more updated sets somehow.
hth
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That's true, I hadn't even thought of it, till you mentioned it. Thanks!
One benefit of printed research material (as opposed to on-line) is the accidental discoveries made while paging through to find the item for which you are looking.When the girls were elementary age we would do something we called subject linking. For example, if you looked up horses you might find a reference to Arabia, then if you looked up Arabia you might find a reference to x and then y and then z. Some of the bunny trails were a lot of fun. Since we had very casual lesson plans there wasn't any reason to stick to the original subject.:001_smile:
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Me, too. :)
When I was a kid I read the dictionary. Oh how I would have loved to have an encyclopedia set. -
Thank you! :)
We have an old World Book and an old Britannica set. I use the WB to teach the kids how to research and also have them look up topics in it instead of online if it's not for a long report. The Britannica set doesn't get much use. I've all of the children use it during their senior year for a paper of their choice. -
I feel the same way, and there is just too much to choose from on the internet for it to be a good starting point. :)
I think a good set of trustworthy reference books are invaluable. My kids are no longer homeschooling, but they use the encyclopedias now the same way they always did when they were homeschooled - as a "first stop" for information about a topic of interest (or an assigned topic, etc). Yes, you can always Google for information, but I like my kids to sit and read from the book first if possible. Especially in this age of instant information, it makes them slow down a bit, read, and think. Then they can get on the internet to search for additional information, or reserve books from the library, etc.Hope this helps!
Ria
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Thanks everybody! :)
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Thanks, Allene. My 2yodd is currently showing and naming the letters on them. :)
I want to add to clarify what I'm asking. If one has most of the books SWB recommends, then what does one use a set of encyclopedias for? I hope that makes more sense. :)
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At this point, I'm not sure which I prefer. That's what I'm trying to figure out, LOL. :) Thanks for your help.
Until TOG came out with Redesign my plan was to use Omnibus. If you prefer TWTM method go for it. -
Am I correct in thinking you use Classic? If not, my apologies. How do you get a book list for redesign to accompany the Classic? TIA
I agree that the Classic seems to repeat books, but between the book list in the Redesign having more options and the alternates list being longer, I wouldn't think you would run out of material.I do plan to use it through Rhetoric.
Heather
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You are correct, I have Classic. I was where you are once upon a time and I bought all four years used, not knowing there would be a redesign. I'm pretty much stuck with it, as I couldn't possibly afford to replace it with the new version. Thanks for your help. :)
I have not used and do not own TOG, but I have looked at samples, etc., extensively over the years as I plan to do it in Dialectic and Rhetoric, and I would hazard a guess that you have the Classic, and not the Redesign? They did repeat a lot of books from Dialectic to Rhetoric in the Classic, but I believe and it looks like they have remedied that in the Redesign. It was something I had noticed in the Classic and did not like either! Hopefully someone else will chime in more about this who has used it! -
I've been really focused on getting my 5th grader's schedule together for year one and am just now paying attention to and looking through the rhetoric level.
I've always planned to do what SWB suggests in TWTM for high school history, but loved the idea of being able to use TOG twice and had sort of convinced myself that we would use TOG again. Having flipped through it, though, now I'm not so sure. I have noticed that a lot of books used in the dialectic level are repeated for rhetoric. And I haven't noticed any great books.
So, maybe I've missed something. I really have just flipped through it. I would love to hear your opinions on TOG Rhetoric vs TWTM Rhetoric. What do you think? TIA
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I was the lucky recipient of a complete set of 1989 Encyclopedia Britannica from our local freecycle group.
I'm showing my ignorance here, please forgive me. :) I'm looking for ideas. I'm thinking mostly they would be used for research, but wondering about other uses.
My oldest is a 5th grader and I remember reading in TWTM that this is an ideal time to get a set of encyclopedias(although, there wasn't really any recommendation for what to do with them). So, I was so excited to get this set, but now I have it and I'm not completely sure what to do with it, LOL.
Any suggestions would be helpful. TIA
Anyone use Holt Science and Technology Life Science?
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
Does the student book do a good job as a stand alone or would you recommend any of the other books that go with it? How do you schedule it? Anything you think I need to know, feel free to let me know. Thanks! :)