abrightmom
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Posts posted by abrightmom
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:001_smile::001_smile::001_smile:
I am so happy this is being discussed. I too have been agonizing over how to combine kiddos with LBC. It is my dream plan . . . I have Grade 1 and 2 teaching guides and I've been pondering how to utilize it. I think it would be easy peasy to combine kiddos close in age but not as easy for the youngers to fold in.
That is a difficult challenge! But, not having any experience with combining at all I don't imagine it is any easier to combine multiple ages in any program. There will always be "tweaking" and adjusting required.
LBC is amazing . . . so well put together with fantastic book selections and enough flex to give Mom some room to maneuver. All of the extras included in the teaching guides (articles, documents) are wonderful!!
The slightly slower, steady stream of history over 6 years versus 4 is appealing. I also like how national history is studied alongside in a slower, steadier fashion and then the two streams merge in the 6th grade year.
I would LOVE to hear more on combining . . . if ANYONE has ideas or tips I'm :bigear:. As I have worked the "plan" my biggest challenge would be in what to do with the youngers who jump in mid stream. Once they get to the 6th grade time period then they really aren't ready to cycle back around with LBC because the cycle begins in first grade. At that point having to beef UP first grade and beyond would be too much work. The only other option would be two cycles happening at the same time (or possibly 3 depending on how many kids are in the family and the age spread). In reality all of the children would benefit from going through LBC's program from beginning to end. The sequence of skills taught is awesome.
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:D This makes me happy.
How did you go about "planning" this? Any quick tips? I just want it to line up appropriately (not perfectly, just close :D).
Have you seen this http://www.roadstoeverywhere.com/sonlight2.htm ?
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what should I do?
At this point I want to teach my children syllabification (a la AAS 2 or ?). I have realized that PR doesn't do this (I'm sure there is some reason and perhaps it's not as important as I think it is. It makes sense to me though!).
I have actually toyed with returning the PR and using AAS but I have reservations there as well.
In a last ditch effort to solidify my decision I'm wondering if there are any PR users who also want to teach syllabification. How will you do this? When? What will you use?
Any more experienced Moms who can set me straight if this desire is unfounded???
If my MAIN reason for choosing PR is to teach strong phonics and spelling skills then I wonder if it will be overkill. I'm not sold on the AIO aspect yet . . . Maybe AAS would be a better choice and it will include the syllabification. Those are just my out loud thoughts -- no need to respond!! :lol:
:confused: :confused: :confused: (Insert a tiny little voice saying "God please send a sign from Heaven telling what to do????")
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We have used Core 1 this year and it has been a good first year of history for us. I think using Core 2 would be sensible and an easy way to have a history "cycle" (and give me some more time to plan :001_smile: and to get those basic skills strengthened).
However, I don't do well with Sonlight schedules. I ALWAYS get off track and I hate flipping around in there for notes. :lol: Makes me looney! Anyone else use SL but NOT use the IG? I'd want the flow of history to make sense and for the lit selections to be read at the appropriate junctures. I hate the thought of springing for an IG just to have that basic structure laid out.
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Hi Melissa!!
We tried Sonlight Science 1 this year. The books are good (my kids always do well with Usborne type books - lots of pictures and interesting text) and the children love the DVD (that was an extra we decided to purchase). I think the worksheets are lame though . . . really lame and to be honest that is why we hardly ever do science. It just drives me nuts. As I'm typing I may just use the guide to write out a reading schedule to finish out the year. Less guilt that way!:D
Anyhoo, I like the looks of Elemental Science as well. That is a top pick for me for this next year. I purchased Living Books Curriculum's first and second grade teaching guides used (for dirt! :) ). They have wonderful, amazing ideas for nature study/journaling and science. That is also a top pick for me as I like how they've organized it by term. Actually, I like their entire program!
I have also thought about unschooling science OR utilizing a delight/interest directed method for a year or two while they're all so little. Perhaps I will choose books of interest and occasionally do a science kit. Timberdoodle has some whiz bang fun kits! We just did one and the kids loved it. It was the most fun we've had all year :D. Currently, in lieu of the Sonlight science (I am so so so bad! What a waste!) we are doing a mini unit on tadpoles/frogs. Checked out books from the library, prepared lap books for them (our first go round with free printables off the web), and a bowl of tadpoles from the grandparents' pond. They are INTO it and that is why I'm thinking about utilizing this method this next year rather than something "planned". That way science can take a back seat if the skill subjects need more teaching time (and they ALWAYS do).
I honestly think my boys have learned more by listening to cds about science topics and reading lots of books about science topics. They are just soaking in that information and that is really my goal in these early years!
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We all really enjoy SOTW, but IMO it really just skims over some of the important parts of American History. Whenever we come to a chapter that includes something we want to study more in-depth, we just stop and take extra time to focus on whatever that might be. This year we spent a couple of months going more in depth with the Civil War; last year we took more time with the American Revolution. We read lots of books, do activities, field trips and watch some movies, etc. Once we're done with that we go right back to SOTW. It took us about 1 1/2 academic years to do SOTW3 and will most likely take that long for 4 as well.By no means am I an expert, as this upcoming year will be my first for HSing my going to be 1st & 4th graders. I did look extensively into studying US History with them both next year though as if my 4th was still in school that would be what she would be going into, and not knowing where this next year will lead us, I decided to stay with that sequence.
I have searched hi and low for a good curriculum that I felt would be challenging, but also interesting to them both. I felt like SOTW was "alright".. a good read I suppose. I thought "History Odyssey" did a better job of using SOTW as well as a few other things to put together a more well rounded study.
That being said, I still searched through Sonlight Core 3, Core 4 and the 3+4 combo.. wondering since she liked to read so much maybe that would be good. But, I have heard that those literature selections can be a bit heavy and emotional.. and so far STILL not a good fit for bringing in my 1st grader.
Then I ran up on Winter Promise. I am currently looking into The American Story 1... or possibly the All American 1 set as it includes aspects of "The American Story" along with "The American Crossing"... you can search all of them at their website. www.winterpromise.net I liked the hands on aspects of it, as they both really enjoy being creative and MAKING something, plus I felt like it would reinforce whatever they were reading. It had good literature for both ages, and I liked that they pulled in Evan Moor history pockets as well. There are quite a few mom blogger too that you can search and find where they have added their own extras into the Winter Promise American Story 1 curriculum. I think I might have searched "Winter Promise American Story 1 mom blog" or something like that and found one mom who chronicled their entire year.
I still MAY bring in SOTW and even Joy Hakim's "Story of US" volumes along with either the PBS "Freedom: the story of Us" or The History Channels free dvd set of America: the story of us that you can order on their website for your homeschool. Just because she likes extra reading and they both like watching history come alive on tv.
Good luck!
Thanks ladies! I thought I'd heard that some Moms weren't thrilled with the "skimming over" of American History. I will spend the time to consider that now that it's been confirmed for me! Thanks.
WP AS 1 looks like a ton of fun and we have looked into that as a possibility as well! Thanks for the reminder.
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I don't own these yet so can't read through them . . .
Do you think that there is enough time and focus on American History for those of us who really enjoy studying that?
Do you plan to "tweak" or abandon SOTW 3 & 4 in favor of just focusing on American History?
Thanks :001_smile:
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so here's where I am today:
I'm going to use AAS, no wait I think I'll try PR, no wait maybe I should just stick w/ my original plan of WRTR, or I could just get SWR..................:banghead:AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
I do really have a sense of humor about this choice. I'm just not ready to decide yet!:):lol:
:lol::lol: My life in a nutshell! I OWN PR 1 and now I'm thinking about NOT using it and just using AAS . . . then I swing to PR . . . then to AAS . . . then to . . . :lol::lol:
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Beth,
Will you elaborate on your AAS/PR combo? How will you do this and why would you want/need to?
Also, why won't you go on in AAS?
:001_smile:
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:lurk5::bigear:
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We love them, but ours don't involve craftiness of any sort. We use a Book of Centuries from Simply Charlotte Mason. Each kid gets their very own around third grade or so.
Hi Moon,
What do you use for time line figures or pieces? I know you use VP history so I'm curious how you lay it all out.
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:iagree:
I used Level 2 twice. The lit study was really gentle and mostly fun. I might skip the outlining because I just don't think it's necessary at this age. Also, I think I recall (though it's been years since we've used PR) that some of the copywork might contain sentence fragments. I'd fix these or skip them. What's the sense in copying a fragment?
Lisa,
Thanks for sharing the experience you had with Level 2. I'd forgotten about the outlining and I'm glad you mentioned it. That is something I'd rather tackle in Logic stage (I think . . . this is based upon SWB's lectures which made sense to me).
Why are you no longer using PR 2? Just curious :D. Hearing how others have fleshed out their plan is so helpful! Did you use any Level beyond 2?
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There is a pattern, I guess I explained it poorly, and enough practice to have results returned. I've mentioned before, if there was one thing I could shout from the roof tops is this is NOT an teacher intensive program....it's so easy to use and so.very.effective :)
Tina, I do believe you here . . . and I'm not at all concerned about that (well I have had my moments but those have passed! :D). It's always good to re-state it "for the record" though!
It's just that whole lit analysis thing that got me thinking . . . and we all know what happens when a home school Mama starts "thinking"! :D The planets re-align or the earth flies off its orbit or something like that!:lol:
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If her suggestions resonate with you and make sense to you, and you can see that narration will reveal comprehension as well as teach writing skills, then I say stay with them. Her overview lectures were the first thing that showed me the entire grade 1-12 scope of writing/lit analysis skills from beginning to end, in an efficient and gentle way that made sense to me. "Literature programs" really turned me off and I couldn't pinpoint why until I read WTM and esp. heard that lit. lecture. At that conf., she even did another workshop where she led a group of 12-18 year olds in a literature analysis discussion and it was sooooo interesting to watch. It made lit. analysis look like fun, not worksheet/exercises-filled drudgery. It was talking and communicating!
Also - the lit. analysis model set out in WWE, and then in logic stage WTM lit. section (the questions set), and then in WEM really appeals to me. This is because for each stage of four years (or so), there is ONE set of questions to apply to many books. This makes things so much simpler around here, than looking at individual lit. anal. books with story-specific questions. I can take these WTM sets of questions and apply them to most lit. books, adapting to the story. They are designed to give us teaching skills, rather than to prompt us through someone else's questions for a particular book.
Money wasted? Well, we've all done that - it's part of *our* learning curve. Consider it just another inexpensive payment for your teacher education or something like that. :lol: It's cheaper than teacher's college, right?
I think the principles of study in WTM are flexible. For example, the logic stage lit. analysis questions - you don't have to use them all, you can diverge from them, you can adapt them to your current book...WTM even says that you will come up with your own questions as you get used to the teaching process. I also see plenty of hands-on activities in WTM - mapwork, colouring, drawing, sky-watching, science fair projects, games, SOTW AG, and even creative writing. She doesn't discourage creative writers, only the pushing of creative writing on kids who are not inclined to it. There are also plenty of workbooks for various ages/subjects mentioned in WTM. WTM source recommendations are just a sampling of what's out there to fill out the principles suggested. And, that workshop I mentioned above was VERY hands-on - she talked, she asked, kids answered, she sketched out maps for the kids to look at as they talked about Beowulf, she had them figuring out things to put on the maps; I think she even mentioned or demonstrated about looking up events going on around the time a book was written. This is mentioned in WTM, and it is hands-on. I find that as I get going with a principle for teaching, I start thinking of my own ways to cement things for my kids. My kids, do, too. Right now, they are on a Harry Potter kick, and their Lego play is reflecting this, big time. This always happens here - new interest, new lit. book, whatever; gets reflected in Legos, dress-up basket, playacting, drawing, etc..
And I think at first they created a plan from their own experience and desires, but they did research classical education before writing WTM. SWB has also taught probably hundreds of college kids. She sees what is the end product of the first 12 years of education, which is why she continues to advocate the methods she does. Her mother was also a teacher before she homeschooled, and I believe she has continued to consult with parents about teaching academic skills to their kids. I do believe WTM/audio recordings are a result of YEARS of experience with hundreds, if not thousands of kids and young adults.
HappyGrace: what you said about just using PR for spelling is what I do with WRTR. I don't use the grammar/writing/lit. analysis parts. abrightmom, you could do this, or you could return it, take the loss, and find a plain old spelling program, if it works out to be more economic AND it works for your child.
Also, in reading about PR in this thread - it just seems like so much work to me, and I would much rather have a teaching "pattern" to use for lit. analysis/writing. From what I can tell, SWB's methods (incl. WWE as a beginning) will accomplish the same goals, just over a longer period of time, giving students a nice long time to practice skills. I'm sure that a Mom could adapt PR to her kids because she knows her kids, but abrightmom, if you are not comfortable with it, don't feel guilty about changing your spelling and grammar route to something else!
Colleen,
I appreciate how you think through things and the time you spend fleshing it out for me! You are right about SWB/WTM as far as I am concerned. While she does lay out her plans/ideas there is room to maneuver. Quite honestly, earlier on I had a panic attack USING SWB's methods because I thought they were too gentle in the early years. I questioned whether or not so little effort would lead to real results over time. I don't think that now (because I'm seeing good fruit with small, day by day efforts).
Choosing PR was to help me in implementing spelling the way I'd prefer to teach it and also having something so organized. I like how PR helps me to understand the English language and how it is a step by step progression. I am also drawn to the way the LA subjects seem integrated.
Now, however, I see that doing LA the WTM way (or something similar) would result in those subjects integrating and coming together. It just seems to come together in the logic stage (or thereabouts).
I may do what Heather is doing and start down the Phonics Road (Year One is mainly spelling so that is a bonus - no lit analysis to contend with for now) with some of the "layering" I had planned (that is a great descriptor Heather :001_smile:). I can then re-assess and I'll grow some as a Mom/Teacher. I'll see my kiddos in a new light after another year (or half year in the case of my 2nd grader) of growth. I'll be better equipped to make a decision for the next level. Then again . . . maybe not. :confused:
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Now when we have a rough day or the kids are whining that they don't want to do something, I don't have a roving eye. I know we are doing what needs to be done and sometimes it takes work. It takes a while to get to that stage so don't worry if you aren't there yet. But listening to what makes sense to you and what you think is the right approach is the fastest way to get there. Every woman on this board who is giving you advice wants the best for you but none of us know what that is better than you do. It's a fine line between listening to more experienced moms and having the confidence in yourself to know what's best even if some of those moms are doing something different. :grouphug: Heather
Recently, as I was talking to DH about the choosing struggles I told him that home schooling is messy! It is NOT objective and it does NOT come in a neat/tidy box (kind like my PR materials :001_smile:). There is a lot of gray, trial/error, finding one's way, back tracking, starting over, etc. It has rocked my Type A personality . . . not to mention that God has given me loud, rowdy, night/day different kids and a son who is ADD to the maximum. He is nothing like me and I am struggling with trying to figure out how to achieve the goals/hopes/dreams I have for them while enjoying the journey (for the most part).
Heather's "fine line" is so true! I am in the learning curve with this and it is painful . . . truly truly painful. I intend to stick it out (I can hear Dory singing, "just keep swimming, just keep swimming . . .") but I am TOTALLY uncomfortable in this process.
Thanks Heather :D.
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I'll start by saying...God love you...you're freaking out about nothing. :grouphug: Rather common for home schoolers :) We tend to do that! I could go as far as to say...welcome to my world! lol!
:iagree: and :lol:!! I do think this is a common phenomenon and I need a daily dose of :chillpill:. But sometimes these questions are so so so big!!! My word. I am ready to Be an Ostrich and bury my head! No more home school decisions for crying out loud! :auto:
Tina thanks for spelling it out for me! I can think about it more clearly with that description . . . I am beginning to see my oldest son as fitting into a certain "group" of kids and I think he would do swimmingly with Phonetic Zoo and MCT LA (not ME at all!). Those approaches are so very different from PR. But, he is definitely "there" and I wonder if I need to go with my gut in this regard. OR just take him through PR 1 and 2 (getting him into 3rd grade somewhere) and then shift over if I still see him there. He's too young for PZ or MCT anyway:001_smile:.
Can't it be simpler than this, I ask? Tina would say, "Yes! Use the Phonics Road!" :tongue_smilie:
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You can't take the principles SWB outlines in WTM and turn them into some one-size fits all paradigm that has to fit all kids. The WTM recs are NOT going to fit all kids. They're inherently NOT flexible or multi-modal. WTM insistently turns off and shies you away from things (creative options, more hands-on, etc.) that some kids really, really need. It's not like SWB taught a hundred kids, pooled those experiences, and then created lists of options (80% of the kids do this, 20% do this, 10% do this). No, they took their experiences, created a paradigm that fits what they knew. You have to translate that into YOUR kid and YOUR reality.
I like your soap boxes . . . :D You think through things well and of course you are right on what is written above. I realize SWB isn't the goddess of home schooling. Perhaps the things she says resonate with me so I am inclined to listen to her. I also see the fruit borne in her own life and take note. It's awesome (at least from an academic stand point).
In other words, if you pick a curriculum today, and it fits, and it works, and it's going great... then someday you decide you need to do something else (and believe me this will happen) that is fine and normal - it doesn't mean you picked wrong in the first place.Heather, at what point will you veer from the Phonics Road? CW is on your agenda and you are already diving into Writing Tales (I have this strong desire to use this as well). I'd LOVE to see/hear your plan (realizing, as you have wisely stated, that it is subject to change! :001_smile:) Will you do the lit portions or skip those or . . . ?
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You are on to something. :001_smile: The Magic C letters are lowercase a, d, g,and o. You write a Magic c and then "change it" into a, d, g or o! Has been very effective for my boys . . .
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:glare: I had decided to use The Phonics Road and purchased Level One. Now I am listening to SWB's lectures (they're all wonderful!!) and this one
"What is Literary Analysis? When, Why, and How Should I Teach it?"
( http://www.welltrainedmind.com/store/audio-products.html )
is ROCKING MY LA WORLD. I looked ahead to PR 2 and realize now that literature study (I assume this is the same thing as analysis) is an integral part of PR in Levels 2 - 4!!! Initially the rigor appealed to me but NOW I'm thinking that it will be too much for my kids and perhaps completely unnecessary. While I would like to use PR for the spelling and grammar I don't think using it makes sense if one leaves off the reading/composition portion which is tied to the lit study.
SWB's views on lit analysis make sense to me. For K-4 she says that kids need to READ and enjoy reading, summarize (this is accomplished through narration), and learning basic terms of reference (mainly genres and differentiating between fiction/non-fiction).
She also says, " I cannot think of a single literature curriculum targeted to elementary students that I would recommend. It is developmentally inappropriate to subject them to questions and discussion. If you’re doing a language arts program that is doing those elements I would highly recommend you skip them."
SO, now what? SWB's *plan* is definitely more gentle and sensible (and easy :D). She tackles literary analysis in the logic stage which seems developmentally appropriate (critical thinking skills).
I do have to say that in looking at other curricula I passed it over precisely because of "reading comprehension" activities and "lit guides" (i.e. Veritas Press lit guides for 2nd grade DO NOT appeal to me. Narration make sense to me and will reveal understanding. All of that written work seems useless.)
Can anyone chime in here? PR users who are beyond Level One or who have looked ahead and have some input. Who do I listen to here?
Hmmmmm. I am stumped and super frustrated. SWB's lectures are all excellent and I am learning from them. She has challenged me on many levels and really simplified the foundation laying process in K-4. If I ONLY want to use PR for the spelling and grammar portions I think it is more sensible to pick a different path :confused:. More money wasted too! I can return my package as it is unused but will lose shipping and 10% of the purchase price.
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:lurk5: I am all ears here as well! :bigear:
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Living Curriculum Books or Ambleside?
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
A few more thoughts:
1. I think it is quite possible that LBC expects older children (mid elementary age, say 3rd or 4th grade) to take much of the reading on themselves. I can't remember where I read this but it's worth a phone call to ask. Perhaps this frees Mom to work with/read to youngers. I don't know how the narrations would work with the olders who are reading on their own. Perhaps they read independently and then write their narration?
2. I decided that the history portions would not be difficult to adjust (for kids starting mid cycle and then having to go back to the beginning with the first grade plan) because it's really about adding in literature, more challenging narrations and projects if desired.
3. The two challenges are the possibility of having children within the family in different history cycles (I haven't decided if this is bad yet :D) and the youngers missing the fantastic skill progression laid out in LBC. Quite possibly one could use two guides side by side. Teach the skills out of the younger guides for the younger but use the history progression out of the older guide, modified for the younger. Or just start each child in LBC at the appropriate juncture so each child can do a complete run through from first to sixth grade (This sounds insane but I'm really not sure if it is . . . could be worth a try :D). Then in 7th and 8th it is done again with primary source documents.