Sweet Home Alabama
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Have you considered Saxon for math? I would think he would place into 6/5 or 7/6, so the numbers on the book shouldn't cause him any trouble.
Judo Mom,
I have thought about Saxon and read about it and looked at it.
So many people love Saxon and have great success with it. Maybe I need to consider it. You are right about the grade level numbers. That truly would speak to my situation with my ds.
Since my son likes the color and format of Horizons, I'm not sure Saxon would be the right step.
I will certainly have to decide either to stay in Horizons and repeat grade 5, go on to grade 6, or choose something to complement or replace Horizons.
I hate having to make decisions.
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Tina,
Thank you so much.
As for history and science, my ds is learning right along with his sister (7th grade) and brother (2nd grade).... each working at his/her grade level. We're doing Ancient history with Biblioplan and Life Science. I'm trying to use WTM approach this year. Before that, we used Sonlight and Apologia. Science and history do not pose the same problems as math and language arts.
We used Easy Grammar and Daily Grams grade 6 this past year. I ended up choosing CLE because I thought a workbook text would be better for him over R&S.... and I wanted something to teach diagramming. I liked the appearance of CLE..... easier on the eye.
Your combination of Daily Grams and R&S sounds very do-able! Initially, I choose CLE instead of R&S because of the format: workbook vs. writing sentences. I'll have to revisit R&S again. If we do most of the exercises orally, maybe that would work. Even though R&S teaches diagramming, I could still use the CLE diagramming books I bought which will start at a 2nd grade level and progress quickly to bring him up to speed.
I just have to make this a successful year for him without causing him to fall behind. This is not so much an issue of "repeating" a grade. It is more accurate to say we're putting him in the grade where he should have been all along! I'm struggling with how to get him there without making him feel bad.
Can I call for a do-over?:001_unsure:
First, I sympathize. It took me a long while and a handful of regret to see that early doesn't always mean better. Sometimes in our rush to move forward, the maturity and academics end up a little out of place. You're certainly not the first one to come to this conclusion :)Use what you need, where you need it. If he's fine in history or science (you didn't mention those areas) just keep moving forward and keep you expectations on an upper grammar level, instead of middle school responsibilities.
If you want a year of grammar review, I suggest Daily Grams. As you work through the program you'll notice weaknesses. That's when you pull out that 5th grade book and do a few lessons for remediation. There is no need to work him where he's already comfortable. If you want a year of thorough grammar, then shoot for Rod and Staff. It will definitely bring him to pace and using the year 6 book will allow him the appearance of 6th grade. Honestly, there isn't really that much difference between RS5 & 6 anyways :)
As for math, I suggest "Boot Camp" I had all of my dc use MUS Fractions (as quickly as they could) and simply told them I thought they all needed more mastery before they moved on. Tell him that once you get to pre-algebra, many people take 2 years to get through pre-alg or alg. This is entirely true.
My rising 8th grader really needed an extra year for math remediation, so I used Rod and Staff for that too. It was inexpensive, thorough, and since the publishers don't intend for high school or algebra, the 6-8th grade texts are focused on general math. This will take the pain of a 5th grade book out for him :)
FWIW, we don't use RS daily, but when I know we need remediation, I trust their materials to do a thorough job via explanation, presentation, practice and every time I've used anything they publish, I get solid results. It's not exciting to use, but it gets the job done!
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Pongo,
I did have him take the CLE placement tests. He was boarderline between 5-6. At the time, I just hated the thought of backtracking when we had just finished EG 6. Since many of the concepts were similar, I chose grade 6.
Math: He has a basic understanding of fractions, decimals, and percents. It's just not to mastery. I really thought after doing Horizons 5, he would be able to do LOF Fractions because he could do the work in Horizons. However, he missed some of the same type problems in the LOF that were in Horizons 5. It's just super clear that he needs more experience/maturity.
We used MUS from K-1st semester of 4th grade. Then we switched to Horizons. MUS made me nervous the longer we used it. I know the mastery approach has its strengths, yet, I felt like ds was not being exposed to charts, graphs, a variety of all kinds of math problems that are common in spiral books. We started Horizons in 2nd semester of 4th grade. My ds prefers the format of Horizons over MUS.
Your suggestion to use placement tests to find his current math level is great. I'll try that.
Thank you!
I think you will be pretty suprised with CLE 6, I would not say it would be review at all. Did you have him take the placement test for it? I would say its quite a step up from Easy Grammar.When you say remediate, do you mean, math facts? Or Fractions, decimals and percents? Or basic foundational math? MUS is separated into topics as well as Math Without Borders, but not nearly as flashy as Horizons. I think it might be best to try some for the free online placement tests, Singapore, Saxon and TT come to mind, I'm sure there's more. Then you can see where he is placing, and hone in on those particular concepts are holding him up. Lastly, you could look into the BJU work-text for review. You could pull out the chapters he needs work on staple them and put them in a folder, he would never know the grade level.:D
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When my ds was in kindergarten he flew through his math, so I let him move into 1st grade math. Now he is 10 moving into 6th grade, and math is harder. Truly, it's a developmental/maturity issue.
I'm tempted to repeat 5th grade and remediate language arts as well for the same maturity reasons. He's a bright kid. He understands some of the work.... just not to mastery. I am the one at fault for pushing him ahead before he was ready. It seemed to be ok early on, but now that he is in upper elementary grades, some concepts are challenging to the point of frustration.
I so regret moving him ahead when he was younger. I think it would be a mistake to continue pushing him into 6th grade math. (We're using Horizons.) Yet, it might be crushing to him if he repeats 5th. He understands what grade he is in. I didn't realize when he was younger why "better late than early". Now I know..... especially for boys.
We have tried LOF Fractions this summer. He seemed to have some success on the lessons, but got frustrated with the Bridges. He did not finish the book.
(I have CLE 6th grade ready for next year's language arts. Since we dd Easy Grammar 6 this past year, I think most concepts in CLE 6 will be a review.)
Is there anything that can bridge the gap: remediate without humiliation? Or..... repeat 5th? I've looked at ALEKS this morning which looks pretty good at first glance.
I would be so thankful for any help with this issue.
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My dd is going to do Lial's BCM for pre-algebra in 7th grade. At the same time, I'd like to do logic with her this year. It would be our 1st year of logic. I'm considering Logic Liftoff followed by Orbiting Logic for 7th grade and Fallacy Detective/ Thinking Toolbox for 8th.
Before I make any orders, however, I wanted to ask if there is a logic that we could do in 7th with Lial's BCM that would help her prep for Alg. I in 8th grade?
Any logic suggestions?
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I have been researching this some this morning, and a lot of people use K-12 Human Odyssey. Can anyone comment about how it is to use this for outlining?
Easy? Hard? Are there bold headings to help indicate main topics followed by text that has discernable subpoints?
Where do you order this book at a reasonable price? It can be purchased used on Amazon. Should I look anywhere else?
Thanks so much for the leads so far!
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Can anyone recommend a history and a science text that we could use for outlining like SWB talks about in her MP3 lectures?
I have Usborne's Internet-Linked Ency. of World History, but I think we need something more like a text. I looked at my Mystery of History, and it looks like that could work. I have Streams, but that is supposed to be written at a high school level.
My kids will be in 7th, 6th, and 2nd.
I don't have anything for science at the moment. We will be studying life science.
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Thanks, ladies. I'll consider Gil the Hero because my library has this copy. I can pre-read it and tip-toe around anything questionable.
Can anyone tell me that Gil the Hero is not appropriate for a 2nd grader?
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We'll be using Biblioplan to study ancients as well as LLftLotR to add to the study of ancient epics.
Which Gilgamesh story would you recommend:
- The Gilgamesh Trilogy: Gilgamesh the King, The Revenge of Ishtar, and The Last Quest of Gilgamesh all by Ludmila Zeman
- or... Gilgamesh the Hero by Geraldine McCaughrean
- Any other?
I am trying to be sensitive to the 2nd grader and think the trilogy would be best in terms of age, but it sounds like Gil the Hero might have the better story as long as it's not too risque.
Thanks!
- The Gilgamesh Trilogy: Gilgamesh the King, The Revenge of Ishtar, and The Last Quest of Gilgamesh all by Ludmila Zeman
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Hi Kathy! Thank you so much for responding! I ended up buying the first two Megawords books/TM. I've read so many good reviews about it, and I think it will help us.
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Is there a reason I should not use Splashes from the River? The spelling lists correspond to spelling rules, and the program uses dictation.
The major difference: It does not teach phonics or syllablication directly although manipulating the words per the lesson plans might touch on these. Yet, it guides the student in practical spelling exercises like writing plurals, recognizing spelling patterns, and prefixes/suffixes/roots.
I'm trying to decide between Splashes and MW. I really dislike the cost of and length of the MW program. Is it worth the time and money to do MW?
Will MW work on phonics?
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Thank you, Donna! :001_smile: I've read a lot about HOD, so I'll look at the books they recommend.
I forgot to say that we'll use Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings with BP ancients. We will just cover The Fellowship of the Rings and use Unit 5 about Epics to briefly study Gilgamesh, the Illiad and the Odyssey. (We'll also cover the other 4 unit studies planned within LLotLotR lesson plans for the Fellowship book.) We will use kid-friendly versions of these stories. My kids LOVE LotR, and this will give us a way to study literature and combine it with ancients.
I have a few readers scheduled just in case we choose to use them, and I haven't purchased the Waring CDs, yet. I'm pretty sure I will. I'd love to hear from anyone else who can just share from your experience.:bigear:
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We will be using Biblioplan Ancients for history this next year with grades 7, 6, and 2. I'm trying to keep history simple this year because we have other subjects that will be more challenging and will take more time. My kids really don't care for the "gods" of ancient history and all the myths that go along with that time period. I'm not sure that they would really enjoy the readers and read-alouds.
I'm trying to decide if we would miss out if we did not use the readers and read-alouds.... books like Golden Goblet, Hittite Warrior, God King, Mara Daughter of the Nile, Adara, Bronze Bow, etc....
Instead, I would substitute Diana Warings Ancient Civilization CDs. So, our history would consist of reading Story of the World, Biblioplan Cool History pages, Maps, Time line, Usborne Internet-Linked World History, Kingfisher Encyclopedia, Draw throug History for Creation through Rome, and writing projects. Diana's CDs would put all of this into context instead of readers and read-alouds.
Is this a good or bad idea?
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I used JAG this past year with my 5th grade ds, and I used AG this past year with my 6th grade dd. Overall, I've loved using it, and my oldest doesn't mind it. She agrees that it teaches grammar, but it can be challenging at times.
I've worked into Season 2 a few lessons, and it seems a little easier to me than Season 1. I hope my dd will feel the same way when we start back. I love the way it is organized. It is clear. I LOVE the grading system. Compared to using a text with diagramming included, I prefer AG which teaches only parsing and diagramming.
The teaching is clear, and the lessons that follow are exactly like the teaching. I recommend it.
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The TOC of a text will not tell you the DEPTH of the concept presented.
Lial begins Algebra 1 with inequalities...btw.
BCM will prepare a student for any Algebra 1 program.
Foerster's, Larson, Lial's, Dolciani... all of these were made to the SAME standards (basic concepts covered)... with a bit of wiggle room on the inconsequential/overlapping concepts. I've had students move from one to another without difficulty. PRESENTATION of the material is the biggest difference between these programs...
I use Lial in my online classes for Pre-Algebra, Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. I use a different program (Holt) for my Geometry classes...just my personal preference.
Thanks, Jann!
Just curious... What do you use for math beyond alg. II and geometry? Also, are the other Lial's texts similar in appearance/function as the BCM? I'm trying to think ahead to have a loose plan for 8th grade and for general high school planning.
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If your dd wants color let her use colored pencil on her homework... or use a whiteboard with colored markers to work the problem out on before she copies it onto her paper...
Skipping around in programs is possible if you make sure the programs are compatible...
BJU is a great Math program--but I would not attempt it without the videos (EXPENSIVE) in the high school level. The texts were designed to be TAUGHT--not used independently as a sole resource.
The Lial texts WERE designed to be used independently...there will be a few questions (ones that ask the student to 'explain') that may require a more adult thinking process than a young student would have--I have my students skip these. Also some of the last word problems in each set may need to be worked WITH the student... again a bit of adult reasoning required--but even if these are skipped the program is still good!
BCM can be used as a workbook--just have a notebook handy for the few problems that require more space to work out.
Jann,
Do you recommend sticking with the Lial's progression after BCM? I've read where several use BCM followed by foerester's algebra and jacobs geometry.
Also, while comparing Lial's to BJU Basic this morning, BJU covered inequalities where Lial's does not. Is that a problem? I know that, in general, there are always going to be differences in text books, but as important as math is, I'm not exactly sure what skills are critical vs. what skills are optional and will be painlessly picked up later.
Thanks!
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Thank you, Elizabeth.
I actually like the Lial's. I read about BJU this morning in another post and wanted to double check it against Lial's.
Now, I can start to look at an algebra progression once we have Lial's done. I do have that one itching concern.... to stay with one curriculum or to jump around. Yet many have found individual texts that seem to work in a progression i.e. lial's to foresters, to jacobs.
Can anyone speak to this concern? Has anyone stuck with Lial's throughout their progression?
I'm with you on the color text issue. The content is the most important. Yet with my dd, if I can find something with color, that makes a difference for her.
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Which one of these would you choose for 7th grade?
(This is for a child who used MUS 1st-5th grades and Horizons for 6th grade. She loves a colorful text.)
I'm trying to determine which one has the clearest communication to the student.... the most intuitive. What are the pro's and con's of each? Which is best for preparing for algebra I?
I'm also looking at the math progression. Would it be better to do bju and follow their progression (basic math, pre-alg, alg I, geometry, alg. II, pre-cal)?
Or, BCM followed by the Lial's progression?
Or, I've read where some choose to do Lial's BCM followed by Foerester alg. and Jacob's Geometry?
I have the Lial's BCM 8th edition. I just want to plan a little more for the future.
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We have not tried Create-A-Story, but we did use Stepping Stones game by Create Press.
We played it just long enough to understand the steps and then didn't use it again. It would have worked best for a hands-on learner. It really wasn't a "game", yet it used playing pieces that you advance on a game board. Playing the game promped the student to do the next step in writing a paper. I have no idea how the story game works or how effective it is.
What was more helpful to us was their writing book vol. 2. For our purposes, we were learning how to write different kinds of reports: descriptive, compare/contrast, persuasive. We did not study parts of a story like the story game teaches. It does not cover parts of a story.
The Create-A-Press staff was very helpful when I was trying to decide tif I wanted to use their material.
Wish I could help you more.
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Just thought I'd share.....
My kids used IEW Themed Writing Early Am. History this past year. It was our first exposure to IEW. I can say we learned a LOT but at a fast and furious pace.
This year I hope to refine writing skills we learned last year.... not necessarily following IEW. I mainly want to practice writing a good topic sentence, supporting details and concluding sentence. I also want to practice different kinds of writing: descriptive, expository, persuasive, etc... We'll use history and science topics and also I'll have my kids write about anything of interest. Hopefully, that will make it more interesting than assignments from a curriculum.
I found Comprehensive Compsition by Katherine Stout. I have not purchased it yet, but it looks like a writing guide.... not a curriculum. The best sample pages are on googlebooks. It will give us steps for writing, and it teaches K-12. I think it will help us. I also have the vol. 2 writing book by Create Press. It teaches how to write different kinds of paragraphs and essays by using outlines. The outlines prompt the student to write the topic sentence, supporting details and conclusion. They also help with transitioning words. It is a wonderful way to "see" how a paragraph should be constructed.
I also plan to listen to SWB's writing lectures. With CC, Create Press, and SWB's lectures, I hope to have writing covered for next year.
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I will definitely look at Getting Started with Spanish. Thanks!:)
We use MFW as our main curriculum. English From the Roots Up is scheduled for our 2012 and 2013. I just noticed that last night. So that will be when we study Latin and Greek. I think your choices for Latin curriculum will work just fine. I don't think you need anything else right now. Perhaps you could invest in a cd. Enjoy!
Marsha
Marsha, hope all goes well with doing Spanish! If you have a suggestion for a cd please share. All I can think of would be cd's associated with a curriculum.
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Yes, I did! This year we will begin Spanish! lol I know it is a change of plans but I have everything to teach/learn Spanish including Rosetta Stone. I am thinking of using EL to memorize some basics like months of the year,colors and numbers. I would like the kids to memorize a prayer in Latin but I don't remember seeing that in the book.
We will come back to Latin next year sometime. I am wanting Prima Latina. I am going to frequent used book stores to see if it shows up. If it doesn't I will purchase the package.
There aren't any samples of EL on the internet. I really didn't find it anywhere except Sattler's website. I just looked in the TM and the TOC is not very lengthy. If she doesn't respond I could PM the contents to you if you would like. I don't see any harm in that. Let me know.
Marsha
I just love your solution to your Latin problem!!!:lol:
Just wanted to tell you that I think:confused: I know what we will do for Latin. Since I already own English from the Roots Up vols. 1-2 and Rummy Roots, we will use that. In addition, I think we'll try Getting Started with Latin by Bill Linney. It's a step-by-step beginner Latin book that has been used by children and adults alike. It has gotten wonderful reviews at Amazon. There isn't anything *fun* about it, but it is written in a simple way and is not intimidating.
He also wrote Getting Started with Spanish. I thought you might like to check it out. In addition to Amazon, you can Google the titles and link to his web page to see samples of both books. He has audio pronunciations linked there too to download and use with his books. It really looks great.
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Marsha,
I've been in touch with the author of EL via email. She has been very helpful, and she feels like EL is certainly doable by a 2nd grader. There are not many sample pages. I asked her this evening if she would be willing to make the table of contents available. I have not heard back.
I came down to EL, Lively Latin, and Getting Started with Latin. I would like to be able to compare the TOCs for each one. I'm totally not sure which to choose. In one minute, I'm convinced I should use one. In the next minute, I change my mind.
Trying to choose Latin for 2nd grade isn't an easy decision. Have you decided what to do?
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If it helps, I chose LL because it's secular & because I didn't want to deal w/ grammar. Now we're using MCT, though, & so far, these seem to fit together beautifully--Latin & MCT. I don't know if the brand of Latin matters or not.
And fwiw, I chose secular to match what I did in college. I went to a Catholic university, but I majored in Lit. We got the secular pronunciation, & we read Ovid & Virgil. I wanted to stick to the lit side of Latin rather than the religious readings.
Aubrey, I'm just curious. When you say that you didn't want to deal with the grammar, how did LL help accopmlish this? Would you please explain how you used LL? Did you use vocab only and leave grammar completely out? How hard/easy was it to modify LL? How old were your child/children when you used LL?
Consequences of pushing ds ahead in K-1st. Remediation help for 5th-6th grade.
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
Mallory,
My 7th grader is going to use Lial's BCM for pre-algebra. Of course, we could borrow her book to help explain the math. What a wonderful idea!
I'm still weighing the issues of keeping him in 6th or putting him where he should be (age-wise) in 5th which would be more appropriate developmentally and for maturity reasons.