Kezia
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Posts posted by Kezia
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My son showed his work in the top solution. I think the solution should be worked like in the bottom solution. I take issue with it because he cancelled laterally instead of cross cancelling THEN said he would multiply by the reciprocal making up his own fraction division rules. He insists it is the same, you just have to remember not to cancel laterally in multiplication. For division only, one can choose to cancel laterally, then make sure to multiply by the reciprocal. To me this is another way he is overly complicating a simple “procedure”.
In my head I think to divide a fraction, simply multiply by the reciprocal, then if possible, you can do the whole cross cancellation and be done. The discussion we had today about whether or not his way should be accepted took way too much time. We then came across Malcolm X’s quote about math not being a subject that invites argument.
His way just seems like more rules to remember and a great way to get confused later on. I joked with him about whether he should say for slope “m=the change in x over the change in y; then take the reciprocal instead of simply m= change in y over change in x.”
I would love to outsource math just for this kind of issue.
Would you accept this worked out in this way?
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1 hour ago, Janeway said:
I am curious to what program you were using for prealgebra that it gave such an inefficient answer in the solutions manual? (I am referring to the denominator of 42)
That problem was in AoPS pre-algebra Chapter 4 (fractions). I am not that strong in math, but I think using a common denominator of 42 is the easiest way to add those fractions? My son made it complicated and had the common denominator be 14.
On 7/28/2022 at 4:58 PM, EKS said:This.
I've tutored kids at the local high school, and I've seen the work they hand in. They get full credit for showing no work, wrong work, incomprehensible work, problems wandering every which way on the page, stuff that is impossible to read, and on and on. There is absolutely no incentive to do things right. And it's really difficult to get kids who work this way to change their habits.
Ugh! I noticed those types of things when my son was in 3rd grade public school. I am not surprised to find things don’t get better as the kids advance. Makes me definitely want to pursue homeschooling for longer.
I have been trying to “fix” his organization and neatness since then, but I have been lax about consistency. I also have a hard time knowing what is just the right amount of challenge and the right amount of output for his age. So I often wonder if I expect too much.We school year round. June-July are lighter in workload with only math and light LA. My son did great with amazing focus on Friday. I did incentivize as 8 suggested. For excellent focus, good attitude, following instructions and neatly showing his work, he would get minutes toward video game time and subtraction of time if he did not. He says he is on board and worked diligently for an hour and a half.
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15 hours ago, 8filltheheart said:
he very well probably had answers in a format that did not reflect a SM answer.
Does this mean SM Singapore math (common core type answers)? That is why I wanted to see the test, to see if we never covered the material or if it was the way it was presented or if it was phrased differently than he is accustomed to. And does that sort of format discrepancy stop at algebra level classes?
I do not test in math. I rely on him demonstrating mastery in the problem practice sets. (Which is why I am second guessing whether he has truly mastered the material I thought he had mastered. Maybe I don’t know what I am doing.) He has definitely covered the 6th grade material despite not going through “6th grade” math. My son did say some questions were “weird.” I was happy that he passed and do feel we are almost where I thought we were in math, but barely passing just leaves me questioning the way I do some things. If we continue homeschool, and he goes back next fall, he would have to try to test to grade skip 7th grade math to be placed into Algebra whereas if he goes back this fall, he is already on that course. Had he passed with flying colors, I would have no doubt of his ability to pass another end of course test for 7th grade math.
I have homeschooled 4th and 5th grade so far, and I am willing to homeschool as long as the kid wants to be homeschooled (and he does want to continue but is okay if we send him back BECAUSE he placed in the advanced math he wanted to be in). I do want to homeschool at least another year, BUT there is an overall attitude of laziness in everything he does. He also just does not give me 100%. He tries his hardest to physically write as little as possible. He does nothing, outside of science, without me as drill sergeant. I think he would struggle for a bit in public school just with organization, keeping track of assignments, turning things in on time or even at all.
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My son could go back to public school though this fall for 6th grade. I had him test to grade skip 6th grade math and he barely passed the test. So if he goes back, he would be in 7th grade advanced math (as a 6th grader) which would put him in Algebra 1 the next year for 7th in public school. I told myself that if he did well, then what we are doing is working and we should continue. Barely passing gives me pause. The school won’t let us review the test. He will manipulate a simple decimal division problem .35/12
into a complex fraction instead of doing it the easy way.He loves math and feels that it is his strongest subject, but is a tad lazy, makes simple mistakes and doesn’t like to show his work. I see some of the numerical manipulations he makes and I am impressed, so either I suck at math and he is average or he is great at math and the test doesn’t reflect that. He should have known the material so I expected his results to be mid 90’s, not low 80’s.
For example: the problem:
3/14 + 5/7 - 1/21
I would give all fractions a common denominator of 42 and come up with an answer. That is also the way the solutions manual showed.
He initially got the answer wrong but showed zero work so I made him redo it. So then he got it correct. He said he found his arithmetic mistake. I looked at his work (because he is messy and crams things together in a way no person can follow) and he had changed 1/21 to be 2/3 over 14 (which made it look overly complicated). He had changed 1/21 to an equivalent fraction by multiplying top and bottom by 2/3 so he could have a denominator of 14. He had to explain this to me. It took a few minutes. Had he used the words “equivalent fraction” I would have caught on faster. Why on earth anyone would desire to make an equivalent fraction using another fraction instead of a whole number I will never understand.
I don’t know if this particular kid is better off with us going through the last 2 chapters of the first half of pre-A together then switching to AoPS self paced for the second half (dabbling in algebra for fun along the way) or just going back to public school with a couple of kids he is competitive with in math and a math teacher where he is placed at the approximate level (I think) is appropriate for him.
In any case, he needs more accountability.
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MCT and WWS both are focused on academic writing but that is where their similarities end. Neither of these will work for every kid.
WWS (WTM resources) are easily divided into daily lessons and WWS is easy for the teacher to use with excellent explanations and even some scripted conversations. MCT is hard to figure out where to stop for the day, not divided into easily defined daily lessons; it is not scripted at all.
WWS is designed to be able to hand to the independent student and that student do much of the work independently. Usually that is not done with MCT materials. Some kids can manage to read and grasp the ideas, but it is very beneficial to have a person to read along and point out some things.
WWS is very parts to whole, learning the little bits and pieces that make up structured writing. MCT seems more whole to parts. You are looking more at the big picture of writing and grammar rather than little parts that make up the big picture. It goes from sentences to paragraphs to essays, but does so in a “this is the ultimate goal” type of way.
WWS offers clear, concise grading rubrics. MCT is not as easy to grade and offer productive feedback for a person who is not as comfortable teaching writing in that way.
These are two excellent choices, but I feel are very much opposites and work with very different kids.
After completing WWS 1, I would go with the Voyage level. Just be warned that some do not actually use the writing suggestions. I have used the paragraph town level and Essay Voyage level. The grammar really clicked with my student but lacked adequate practice with the concepts.
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As far as the math, that formula was very simple and straight forward compared to other problems in that same section.
My child probably didn’t think twice about it and was just happy for an easy problem.
The problem bothered me.
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Challenge math for upper elementary and middle school (p.50 #9) says to take the person’s age/2 and add 110 would be a normal systolic bp for a person of that age.
I can find nothing else anywhere that gives a formula like that for normal blood pressure as one ages. I don’t remember that ever being true…
How many other challenge math formulas should I be wary of?
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Have you checked Audible? We listen to some of The Great Courses science based things in the car. I have some to listen to about volcanoes. Apologia courses are available also.
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I started our homeschool LA with TGaTB. We did half of level 4 for 4th grade. I liked it. My kid didn’t mind it. It could be independently done. The kid can still spell neighborhood in his sleep. “Really? Neighbor.... again?!” I liked that it was all inclusive language arts/geography/art and so nicely done. I could add math, science, history and feel we covered what we needed to each day.
Although the reading stories were well written and indeed beautiful, and my child read them dutifully, they seemed dated and slow for a 9 year old boy. The writing seemed to be too advanced for my new to homeschooling 4th grade boy. The excitement I initially felt toward the curriculum had diminished and I really desired separate pieces for spelling, grammar, writing and geography that could be more customized to my child and what he wanted to learn.-
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I wouldn’t worry. Kids are literally all over the place at 10 years old. I would find something to work on and work on that one thing until it is mastered.
It is neat and legible. Spelling looks good. Punctuation is mostly good. She didn’t really list the two reasons she said she would though.
Did you all talk about it a bit before she started writing? Discussing the structure and main idea behind each of the 4 requested paragraphs might have made it easier for her to stay focused on developing the reasons behind why she wants this particular family vacation.
Has she done writing like this before?
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8 minutes ago, Brittany1116 said:
Is this the GH chem for kitchen?
No, he might have enjoyed that one more. It was called Actions and Reactions, I think. He has more interest than the apologia spine covered so he read through Ellen McHenry’s The Elements and Carbon Chemistry as well. We are reading the Tiner History of Physics as a read aloud to go along with the physics portion.
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Math- AoPS
Latin-first form
spanish-HSA+ Spanish for children
LA-Grammar finish R&S 6 and start 7
lit-mom made using TtC, IEW critiques and maybe 2 lit guides: likely WWS1 literary weeks.
Writing-CC Chreia & Maxim and LAoW alternating as well as science and history writing
spelling-spelling power; dictation Day by Day
typing- just keep typing and work on increasing speed to 35 WPM
history- finish hakim american history and start HO ancients
science- finish last few weeks of guest hollow chemistry and physics then maybe bookshark H? Or do a microscope unit study and some dissections? Or maybe just a couple of the Tiner books?
I forgot about logic- Art of Argument
art, piano, martial arts
Encouraging more independent work and organizational/being neat and tidy skills.
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2 hours ago, Lori D. said:
Hope something in there helps, rather than muddying the waters... 😉 Warmest regards,
Thank you. So... you are saying that by attempting to combine journaling and expository paragraphs and since my possibly proposed thesis (revolutionizing cross country travel) looks like more of a persuasive essay thesis (in which case it would not be well supported with my proposed paragraphs) it would be unorganized, confusing and have no clear point.
Expository report:
thesis: some statement still is needed to tie the piece together, a unifying theme, likely along the lines of specifically what the tcr did for cross country travel in general.1)intro (identify event/explain importance )
2)background (travel was rough, dangerous and time consuming...)
3) the event (building of tcr -anywhere from 1-4 paragraphs) historical narrative
4) impact (made travel much faster and shorter wait times for goods or whatever he comes up with)
5) conclusion (summary restate thesis in other words)
14 minutes ago, EKS said:For example:
- How did the railroad change long distance travel?
I think that is the question I wanted him to address, but I have made everything difficult and wordy.
I’m trying to plan it out for him because, knowing him, he will answer that in one sentence.
I also was looking for a way to include the historical narrative within a slightly bigger piece.
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7 hours ago, desertflower said:
I think it’s a great idea.
I would change the conclusion. Your conclusion sounds like another paragraph. I’m under the assumption that a conclusion should not introduce new facts. A new quote is fine, but it’s supposed to wrap things up.
that’s just my thought. I’m not an expert on writing though.
Hmm.. I was thinking of a thesis based on the railroad revolutionizing cross country travel. I know, not an amazing thesis, but still states the main idea/point and practices basic composition structure.
I could leave off the “conclusion” aspect since WWS has no conclusions until WWS2 or I could also just add another purposed conclusion via summary paragraph...
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This would be a writing across curriculum (he has some WWS 1) for DS-11, studying the transcontinental railroad.
I have structured this entire assignment for him with 4 “sections” spread over 4-5 days and a requirement of 4+ paragraphs. I will also want a basic thesis statement in the intro.
Intro: quick background on difficulties of cross country travel before the railroad.
Chronological historical narrative on the building of the transcontinental railroad.
Then chronological historical narrative of the train ride (or maybe historical sequence because this same fictional train trip across country would have happened many times with many people) including an excellent description of the train itself.
Conclusion should revolve around the impact/result of the transcontinental railroad.
Does this appear to be a useful assignment especially considering my goal is “writing to learn” while utilizing some WWS skills along the way?
Is there any way you would change it?
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MCT looks different than any other curriculum. I have not the Island level, but many kids enjoy the story. My 4th grader enjoyed the town level. It all clicked with my son, but he wanted more practice with the phrases.
1st grade might be kind of young to start. I know we have looked over the story and referenced it beyond the initial reading, so maybe if you see the child's eyes glazing over and no enjoyment, then simply put it aside and wait.
I bought mine used and am fairly confident I will be able to sell my set used. They made revisions and it is an expensive curriculum for what it is. Buy used if you can. Grammar, sentence construction does not change. Buy just the teacher's book. Most teacher's books have the entire student book with some extra comments. Easy to cover up answers.
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Oh and I do not think that WWS’s strengths lie in the one level (way too basic) outlines (which are to help see the structure of the topos) or the copia (I have other materials that do this better, in my opinion). We will skip all copia, all narrations (or maybe do some oral compositions) and just orally outline or maybe even quickly together on the whiteboard.
For me it is the detail of instruction in the topoi, which is where I see the true strength because I just want my kid to have these extra “tools”. Different types of paragraphs that can build a composition. My underlying true focus is thesis and supporting it. The extra tools are ways to possibly do that. Well that and these topos also seem like great ways for a “writing to learn” attitude.
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WWS1 teaches expository and descriptive writing. Source material is all provided. If your student is strong in summary, expository and descriptive writing then you might get by skipping WWS1. WWS 2 feels a lot more flexible but does build on the topos taught in WWS1.
It is an affordable curriculum. I will soon be starting a “Crash course WWS1” with my 11 year old focusing orally on outlines and analyzation and then written practice of one topos per week. Then practicing it in history and science while we do the main writing curriculum (CC Chreia and Maxim) for 2 weeks. I plan on having him include intro paragraphs where applicable and maybe even try for a basic thesis to better see where these parts might fit into the whole. I will be working with him closely for this accelerated pace.
You can get the free first 10 weeks sample to get a feel for it, then re-evaluate. He is a good age to start, there is no need for you to rush through it. You could decide to continue with 1 at full pace if it appears that he needs more work with expository/descriptive writing or even crash course WWS1 and then move to 2.
I think it also may depend on how independent you want him to be.I like the looks and assignments of WWS2 better and am considering alternating it with CC Ref/Con next year. As a matter of fact, I have my eye on 1-2 of the initial assignments from WWS2 for this year.
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Misses:
All American History. My 5th grader was not complaining but it just felt so dry and very text book. I like a more narrative story feel (and so does he) for history so we switched to Joy Hakim History of US to finish out American History.
Using history pockets as a supplement. Turns out all the cutting and pasting was loathsome for my kid.
Hits:
Guess Hollow’s chemistry/physics. I love the way out is planned out with so many literature options and it helps him be independent with science. I just wish we could get more experiments to work out with amazing results.
Rod and Staff English 6. He is half way through and he even enjoys it. He especially likes the diagramming. We enjoy doing it mostly orally on the whiteboard. Easy to teach and very clear and thorough. I actually use the tests for this curriculum.
Adding Alcumus to BA 5D + Challenge Math. He loves Challenge math.
Treasured Conversations and a class with Lantern English has been a hit for writing.
MCT paragraph town was a hit but we moved through sentence practicing too slowly. He was longing for some practice with the more complicated concepts earlier. Essay Voyage is about 1/4 done. He enjoyed an doing an imitation of the Apple Is Ridiculous essay.
so-so choices:
Latina Christiana and Spanish for Children. I was trying to manage these for 3 times a week. Going forward in January, we will move into First Form and hopefully add some HSA to the Spanish and move into 5 days a week.
I am not managing art or music well either.
MP Geography and Literature gets it done.
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12 minutes ago, forty-two said:
your student forgot the distributive law, there.
Yeah I figured something needed distributing. I just always remembered to convert it first but I was more of a procedural student.
He figured out the required distribution in the multiplication when he refused to convert the fraction.
thank you!
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Reciprocal of 2 and 4/5; well convert to improper fraction 14/5 = 5/14 is the reciprocal. Ok easy but...
The kid forgot to convert the mixed number to get the reciprocal. So to muscle his way through he knows the reciprocal is: what number do you multiply this number by to get 1?
Since 2 and 4/5 is the same as 2 + 4/5, he took the reciprocal both 2 and 4/5 and added them so 1/2 + 5/4 = 7/4
So obviously that does not work. So if one forgets that the easiest way is to convert the mixed number to an improper fraction, what is the hard way to get the reciprocal?
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I may put AOPS on my list and keep Lial’s and Dolciani as a way to back off the frustration for a bit.
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38 minutes ago, EKS said:
Also, I'm not sure how old the student is
He will be nearly 11.5 years old by then. I have the Lial’s pre-algebra and not the BCM version, if that makes any difference.
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1 hour ago, Farrar said:
It also has none of the discovery style aspects of Beast/AoPS. It's very explicit in the teaching.
I actually used the Dolciani book to have a first look at negative exponents. He was trying to go there all on his own and I don’t remember that topic at all. The explanation was clear enough to me, but I felt that with a mathematically minded teacher (which I am not) this would have made more sense to HIM.
Math question
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
I am that student who memorized the rules. I did best with procedural math. Tell me the process, I do the process 50 times and I know what process to do when I see it again. Because at the time I could not have cared less about the why, just the how.
I enjoy doing math with him now because I feel my own understanding increasing. He manipulates numbers in a way that makes me say “Wait…are you sure you can even do that?”
Because of that, I doubt my own ability to look objectively at his math and say “Yes, he has a full, deep understanding of this concept, so we can move on.” I know this review of concepts in pre-algebra is ensuring the strong foundation for higher maths. I don’t want to hinder him somehow him by homeschooling. At least I could blame someone else for gaps in understanding if he goes to public school.
We are going to continue with homeschool for this year. I showed him the links suggested above regarding showing his work. Maybe he will be inspired.