Fritz
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Posts posted by Fritz
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I think it's pretty clear that CRT played a part in Youngkin's victory in Va. McAuliffe bringing in Randi Weingarten the night before seems completely tone deaf.
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3 hours ago, Faith-manor said:
My guess is the parents are just fine with their kids being groomed by perverts (this is what I would term every single staff and faculty member who took part, every adult in on the planning and execution) so long as they never have to read Maya Angelou.
That's quite a judgemental leap there don't you think?
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20 hours ago, Roadrunner said:
What is being done in elementary schools is somebody’s poorly thought out ideas on how to teach kids tolerance. And I don’t think this is widespread, at least not here.
I couldn’t sleep last night and went on searching up some examples. Ran into Bill Maher’s episode with Kelly. If half of what she says is being done at her son’s school is right, then I really question the intelligence of people who are implementing those poorly thought out exercises that do nothing but damage to kids.Having grown up in a different county where parental involvement in schools is nonexistent, I assure you one can run an excellent school without a single parent at school. What one needs is a parent at home who can drive the message that learning is important, somebody to ask if homework is done, somebody to turn off TV at night and tuck you into bed, somebody who can feed you a hot meal. You need learning to be valued at home even if parents done have time to actual spend helping.
I have come to believe that we are paralyzed because we are all searching for the one model that solves everything. We can’t let perfect be the enemy of the good.
Agreed! The absolute MOST important thing is "a parent that drives the message that learning is important". I do understand that some parents may not have time to volunteer at the school. As I said, I think all could find time to send something to the classroom (A poster they made with their child for the class,or stapling as has been identified as a need here🙂 for example) or volunteer in some capacity. In my mind that helps to undergird the message that learning/school is important.
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On 10/15/2021 at 9:35 PM, KSera said:
It's a specific problem of the mainstream (not just liberal) press that we have discussed quite a bit here as of late. I thought I had seen you in those discussions as well? I think quite frankly that this is a topic the mainstream press doesn't have enough nuanced knowledge on to report well. They are coming from a perspective that they think is the most helpful/correct and the whole topic is a land mine right now. Neither side tends to do well by it at all--both are way polarized in one direction or the other. Melissa Louise shared in one of those threads what has become one of my favorite pieces on this topic, which I have reshared a couple times. I will do so again here if you are genuinely interested in learning some nuance on this topic:
What the media gets wrong on gender reassignment
You don't have to follow Twitter to read it (I don't have an account there myself, but anyone can read). It was pasted in this thread twice for anyone to read. I was asking you if you had read it? What do you think of it? Here it is again:
Th
This is where all the uproar about "CRT" has come from. Rufo did some interviews on TV and then certain press personalities took it from there and their followers lapped it up just the way it was intended and now here we are.
Oh ok, so this guy has confused the minds of all the parents who witnessed first hand what was being taught to their children in the classroom and on Zoom. Right🙄
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54 minutes ago, KSera said:
Right. That was the point I was trying to make to Fritz that it's a worthwhile case to discuss, but presenting an inaccurate/inflammatory opinion piece about it rather than a news piece detracted from people taking it as seriously as it otherwise could have been.
Thank you for continuing to share this when the subject comes up. I think I will start quoting it each time for emphasis. @Fritz Have you seen this and followed the history of how Christipher Rufo successfully achieved what he specifically states above he set out to do?
I agree with this point. I was struck when looking for good news reporting on this incident that it was primarily very conservative outlets reporting it as an outraged "boy in a skirt!" thing with a lot of inaccurate facts, and the mainstream and more liberal press either did not report on it, or in a few cases talked about the dad being removed from the meeting without enough context. That is a glaring problem. It was actually Newsweek where I found the best, most neutral and informative reporting on it.
Agree. There's a lot of coorelation of beliefs on these things, but they are not a package deal and one does not equal the other.
Honestly, could you try to start finding some more reliable sources to share here if you want to share news articles and discuss seriously? There's plenty to be upset about in this case without starting from a place of misinformation. I found decent reporting on it in the much more reliable Newsweek (not one of my usual sources, but they aren't bad). The school board was NOT trying to cover up what happened to this man's daughter, they did not know about it. Loudoun County Officials Address 'Misinformation' Over School Assaults
Glad you noticed the dearth of reporting on this incident by the liberal press. Why is that?
I don't follow twitter or whatever the posting above is of. Again, we heard over and over the examples from the Zoom classes were not CRT and yet, they were exactly what was/is being taught as CRT in public schools. Here we go again with don't believe your lying eyes.
This post was not about CRT but about the DOJ labeling parents as domestic terrorist and calling in the FBI to investigate. This man was sited in the request to Biden to call in the DOJ.
And yes, the superintendent was covering up the rape of this man's daughter.
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On 10/14/2021 at 2:07 PM, goldberry said:
Schools doing it appropriately don't make the news. Why would they? I know I have seen people protesting things that were appropriate, like the book about a black kid's experience in a mostly white school. So is your position that it is nowhere being taught appropriately? Or that all the protests are only against really inappropriate things?
The examples shown in the previous CRT thread were from Zoom lessons parents had witnessed and reported. There were none shown of CRT being presented well.
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Several of you justified the DOJ labeling these parents at school board meetings as "Domestic Terrorist" and having the FBI investigate them. This particular man's case, as is stated in the article, was used by the NSBA to persuade the DOJ to label parents as "Domestic Terrorist". As it turns out this was not about parents making threats against board members over mask mandates. In fact, the school board was trying to cover up the rape of this man's daughter, but he's a "domestic terrorist" according to the DOJ.
The Daily Wire article is behind a pay wall.
And yes, transgender is lumped in with DEI.
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And yet another example of school board's "domestic terrorist" the DOJ needs to send in the FBI to investigate
Jeering progressives demonized and dehumanized him. They fat-shamed him on social media and toasted their success at getting him banned from the next school board meeting at which they passed their policy to turn all Loudoun County school bathrooms transgender.
Who cares if that made girls like Smith’s daughter less safe in the process?
She says the reason the June 22 meeting got rowdy was because the progressive school board had “stacked the deck” by opening public speaking slots a day early so that pro-transgender bathroom activists could fill the slate.
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3 hours ago, KSera said:
This is actually a good example of a time where actual CRT is relevant. Saying "we can't fix everything for everyone" and then choosing to fix things in a way that it benefits the same people who always get the benefits, to the detriment of those that always tend to be on the losing end is an example of the kind of thing that CRT addresses. Poorer people who live in inner cities for example, just do not have the options for transportation for their kids, no matter how much they wish they did. It's not because they love their kids less and wouldn't be more involved if they could be. This is more of a socioeconomic issue than a race one, but in the US, economically disadvantaged people living in inner cities are disproportionately minorities.
Well, lol, that's because the point of the thread was people spreading the astroturfed stories of particularly egregious examples of "CRT." There actually were some people who shared how issues of race can and are appropriately discussed in classrooms. Most of which has little to do with discussing anything to do with actual CRT. CRT can be an appropriate discussion for high school students, but I can't see it coming into lessons at the elementary level that are discussing topics that have something to do with race.
Actually the charter school does have buses. Not sure if parents have to get their children to certain pick up spots or if the buses pick them up at their regular bus stops. I find it very hard to believe that any parent would have no time to volunteer a few hours in some capacity (baking for a bake sale for example or preparing a craft for the school) during the school year.
If you think you can correct for every possible scenario to make everything fair for eveyone, good luck with that. Life is not fair.
Oh please! Are you forgetting that the examples that were shown were actual classroom examples parents had observed from their children's zoom classes, not "astroturfed" ? You or anyone else on the thread that had an example of race being discussed in a classroom in a productive way could have shown that if it indeed exists. But there was not ONE example.
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Does he have friends outside of school? Maybe try other outside groups like scouting, 4-H, church youth group, or some other youth oriented groups. Or maybe a part time job working with other teenagers? Sorry, I'm old and don't know what other current offering in your area might be. It is so hard to see your children struggle.
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8 minutes ago, KSera said:
Then how about the energy currently being focused on eliminating any discussion of race in the schools be instead shifted to focus on making sure it’s done appropriately. This is not a case where it works to throw the baby out with the bathwater
As was noted upthread, we did not see ONE example of this being done in the previous CRT thread. We did see multiple examples of it being done inappropriately. When schools have people like this woman involved I think we can be sure it will be inappropriately done.
https://mynorthwest.com/3182734/rantz-school-equity-leader-racist-tiktok/
A local school district’s equity team leader is no longer in her role after parents discovered her racist and vulgar TikTok videos. But the school has known about her conduct for months.
On her social media channel, Alicia Busch routinely attacks and mocks white people. She labels them “amoral colonizers” and explains she wants to make them uncomfortable. Though she threatens people with physical violence in some videos, she also says, “there is no safe place for BIPOC to exist when whiteness is present.” She also claims that the “American dream is white supremacy.”
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11 minutes ago, goldberry said:
But part of Felicity's point was that the crappy school will become even crappier and the people stuck there will become even worse off than they are currently. There have to be options that don't make things *worse* for some while making things better for others.
As I said I just don't think we can fix everything for everyone without the parents having to make sacrifices for what is most important for them.
The charter school closest to my home requires parents to volunteer a certain number of hours. There are weekend projects they can help with etc, so not necessarily during school hours. I don't see this as a bad thing. Parents need to be involved.
This school has been able to remain open throughout the pandemic. I am sure this has helped the working parents.
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On 10/11/2021 at 12:45 PM, Pam in CT said:
To lay my own cards on the table:
I do NOT deny that potentially well-intended efforts can result in unintended bad effects (whether the effort is to address racism, or open "school choice").
I do NOT condone classroom exercises, particularly *public* exercises, that sort kids by characteristics of birth and demand that they speak "for," or "defend," their race/sex/ethnic group etc., some of which were outlined in one of the other threads. Whatever the original intention, that is not appropriate.
I think it is not only appropriate, but affirmatively good, to assign kids work that asks them to consider multiple perspectives. (ie "Write a letter back to the Old Country from the POV of an indentured servant who made the journey).
I think it is not only appropriate, but affirmatively NECESSARY, to study historical facts like Ruby Bridges (=WTM "grammar" stage); Tulsa Massacre and its before/after context (=WTM "logic" stage); and Case for Reparations (= WTM "rhetoric" stage); and to assign kids work that asks them to respond in developmentally appropriate ways ("grammar" - draw a picture and write a few sentences; "logic" - 2-4 paragraphs comparing what the Greenwood district looked like before and after; "rhetoric" - essay on what/when/where/why "redlining" was important, why, when & how it was changed, and what are some residual effects).
I agree with this. Unfortunately, as we saw in the old CRT thread, is not at all what is/was being presented in the public schools and some private schools as well.
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1 hour ago, goldberry said:
Fritz what's your take on the points that Felicity raises?
I addressed this in another post above.
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3 hours ago, Dmmetler said:
I can see it at the beginning of the semester, but yeah, especially in a small group, it's not likely many folks will be changing their name and pronouns, and it would get annoying and a waste of time.
My kid has complained that some of the required first year seminars and hall meetings end up spending so much time making sure everyone feels seen and heard that they never really get to content-but at least it isn't happening in, say, Spanish or Biology.
This is my concern with social justice in the public schools. This becomes the focus and academics suffers.
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3 hours ago, historically accurate said:
I don't know about school choice. We tried it out one year when it was new here in IL - DD received $ that she could use at any private school. We chose one about 15 minutes from our house. I wasn't working at the time; I was homeschooling her little sister and shuffling her older sister to DE (about 10 minutes beyond the private school). So much driving. I don't know how someone who has less money than us would've been able to do it. The timing was such that I couldn't have worked full-time, and the cost in gas was pretty high too. So, in theory, yes, school choice for everyone sounds good, but many, many kids can't use $ if the transportation isn't a part of it.
Just spitballing here, but how about more than one school offered on each campus. Being that everyone would not be choosing the same school maybe there would be more room to divide a school into 2 schools each with a different focus. That won't completely fix the issue I realize. Maybe the travel issue could be lessened somewhat by grouping a couple of schools on each campus.
I don't think it is possible to address every possible scenario to make everything work perfectly for everyone. I do think part of parenting is deciding what the major things are for your family and finding away to make them happen. If school choice is a major thing then it is up to the parents to find a way to make it happen (ride sharing etc). I was raised by a single mom with no extended family in the area so I get how challenging that can be.
With the current system if you live in an area with a crappy public school you are stuck with it. Having a choice to take your child's money to the school of your choice at least allows for the option of leaving the crappy school. I think you should be allowed to take that money and use it for private school, a different public school, charter school, and possibly for homeschooling. Not sure about the homeschooling thing though. I like the idea myself, but that could open a can of worms.
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I'm so sorry. I hope she is much better tomorrow.
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5 hours ago, Roadrunner said:
What I don’t understand is why we can’t fund schools on per student basis across the state so no matter where you are or who you are, you get the same funding. I mean it’s a public school. If the only advantage of white schools is in the funding, this should be a relatively easy fix.
I would add that that money should go with each child to the school chosen by their parents with school choice.
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On 10/11/2021 at 10:32 AM, kokotg said:
I'm in a facebook group for AP lit teachers. We do AP lit at home, so I'm there for ideas about lesson plans and how to teach the FRQs and all that, but I've been absolutely horrified by the accounts of what's going on in public schools in conservative states right now (it was helpful to remember that group when I was having some self-doubts during the recent "does anyone else regret homeschooling" thread). So some example of how this bizarre CRT mania is "actually being implemented in the classroom": a teacher in Tennessee who is now afraid to teach ANY works by Black writers. Teacher after teacher having to change booklists or offer alternate books to students because some random parent complained about a book of very well established literary merit. Teachers having to get every text they assign approved by the administration to make sure it's not going to be controversial in any way
I wonder how these kids will fare when they get to college and their parents can no longer protect them from the horrors of grappling with complex ideas.
I doubt Randy Weingarten wants input from teachers anymore than she wants parents input. Were you asked about CRT or DEI in the classroom?
https://www.wsj.com/articles/weingarten-teachers-union-critical-race-theory-crt-11626990795
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20 hours ago, Melissa Louise said:
Further to skillfulness being important:
I'm studying s degree that explicitly goes much further than DEI - indigenous perspectives are foregrounded, in an act of reparation..
It bears zero relation to the incidents/resources outlined in Plum's previous thread. It is emotionally safe (for all students), spacious, relational. Challenges to perspectives unfurl as a result of skilful course design.
Children deserve this deeply thought through engagement.
Skillfulness is the key. As we saw with all of the info that was presented in the CRT thread there was zero skillfulness. I do not recall one example of skillfulness in the previous thread. Am I wrong?
In the US this will be/is being presented as leftist proaganda cloaked as DEI or CRT once again.
More on the involvement of the FBI
https://bariweiss.substack.com/p/why-are-moms-like-me-being-called
What is currently happening in NYC in the name of "equality".
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17 hours ago, Harpymom said:
Using tax money to pay for religious and/or racially re-segregated schools is what's wrong with it.
Social justice is the future. You need not be afraid.
Not all private schools are religiously oriented. The left is against charter schools (so are the teacher's unions) as well as school choice.
I am not afraid of social justice. It has no place in public schools. Academics is the purpose of public schools. If school boards continue to refuse to listen to parents and insist on pushing programs the parents are not on board with I hope it will result in a mass exodus from public schools. I do hope parents and voters will insist on school choice. Why is the left so afraid of charter schools and school choice? Because they will no longer have a captive audience with no choice but the shitty one they've been given by their school board.
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3 minutes ago, Pam in CT said:
@Fritz , this is the third thread that I can recall your having initiated about "CRT." And "it" is indisputably a topic in national news, state legislatures, and local school boards, although -- language -- there are different understandings about what "it" is. This is a board that often delves into educational topics, This is one, or maybe several, educational topics. It is worth our time, if we take it seriously.
You are clearly troubled by multiple facets of what you understand "it" to be. Your uneasiness comes through clearly. What is less clear to me at least is what, precisely, you are troubled about. I am, genuinely, trying to sift through the competing-language issues, and also the ricochet between specific mirco-level examples & incidents, vs sweeping macro-level characterizations and legislative responses [that national news / state legislation passed to date / local school board kerfuffles / those of us on this board have all made]; and also, I expect, significant differences in worldview on a number of different, but related, dimensions like why public education exists in the first place, what are appropriate roles/standing for individual teachers v local school boards v states v federal government, what justifies federal investigation, how should public policies be evaluated, what do the words "equity" or "outcome" or "school choice" mean.
Engaging ~~seriously~~ across that much complexity and potential difference is ~~hard~~.
Not everyone is up for it.
Some of those who are up for it some of the time, still can't manage it all of the time. Because it's hard, and often frustrating, and other times irritating, and -- I am sorry to report -- more often than not fruitless.
So if -- for any reason -- you don't feel like answering any of the following, that is fine. I get it.
From the OP:
1. You titled the thread "CRT now rebranded as [DEI]..." Who, in your view, is responsible for that "rebranding"? What do you understand to be the purpose behind this effort to "rebrand"?
2. This opening post ricochets between a. specific incidents (ie the Fieldston kid reporting that white males are "often" expected to speak second rather than first); b. fairly sweeping characterizations of judgment (ie ""[Black]students are being taught that it is the system, not their own effort and abilities, that will determine their future in life. This discourages hard work, motivation, ambition and aspiration"); and c. DOJ's announcement of the actions it intends to address violence against school officials and teachers. I can't discern from your post -- most of which is comprised of quotations, which is fine -- which of these is particularly troubling to you; or which of these is, in your judgment, what "CRT" or "DEI" is about.
3. What I hear in this post is a concern about DOJ/FBI forays into educational realms -- is that correct? First, that the FBI could go beyond the intention expressed in Garland's memo and the DOJ press release to address criminal conduct directed toward school personnel, including "violence, threats of violence, and other forms of intimidation and harassment" into unnamed overreach; but also/second that FBI surveillance could drive an exodus into homeschooling; and thereafter/third that FBI interest & interference could continue to expand into what homeschoolers taught at home? Is that the concern you are positing in the first part here?
4. The second part of this post is about "school choice." That is another term that means different things to different people, and long before I myself knew the term Critical Race Theory I certainly knew of many particular specific examples (WDC charter school network; NYC's G&T "school within the schools" system; a project I worked on in grad school looking at vouchers for religious schools in several southern states) in which "school choice" programs -- perhaps in the very best of faith, perhaps as a wholly unintended consequence -- enabled de facto resegregation after Brown v BoE dismantled de jure segregation. In your view, is it appropriate to ask/ gather data/ research /advocate about the extent to which "school choice" programs affect different groups differently? Or should that question be off the table entirely -- because looking at outcomes, rather than intent, is itself "CRT"?
(the first three of these are restating content from the prior posts; but)
5. In the last of these you raise what I believe is a new concern, that teacher unions oppose "school choice." In your mind, do you believe teacher union opposition about "school choice" is related to "CRT" and/or "DEI"? If so, what do you understand that connection to be?
This post restates the concern about potential for FBI overreach.
6. I can't tell if the last bit, about school boards' inability to get children up to grade level on "subjects they have been hired to teach" is suggesting something different? Do you believe that American history, civics, and literature are among "subjects they have been hired to teach"? (To be clear: I ask about those subjects specifically because in my own mind, and also in the debates playing out in my own town, those are the content areas in which these debates are focused.)
The first bit restates concern about teacher unions... which (#5) I am not really following how they relate to "CRT" or "DEI" or the other bits that are troubling you.
7. The second bit raises an entirely new maybe-concern / maybe-red herring / maybe-smear, that I had to go look up. Sure enough, it's a talking point. For clarity: are you suggesting here that Garland may be siccing the FBI on local school boards because he has a self interest in "CRT materials" being sold, and is concerned that if school boards ban "CRT materials" that he'll be adversely affected financially?
I don't understand, at all, what the University of Michigan's mission statement of having an inclusive student environment has to do with any of the other concerns you've raised. You opted, I think, to bold the words "socioeconomic status."
Much of this is in response to a back-and-forth with other posters' posts; but
8. ...in the end you outline -- I think for the first time -- what you understand "CRT" and "DEI" to be "about": equality of outcomes. Just to ensure I'm following you correctly: Do you understand "CRT" and "DEI" to be a declaration of values calling for equal "outcomes"? If so, in what particular "outcomes" (ie, income, wealth, health metrics, representation in particular schools/ universities / corporate boards / Senate... others). Hypothetically: if advocates for "CRT" or "DEI" arrived at the Promised Land, what would look different from the terrain today?
(I will note, as an aside, that "equal outcomes" is NOT what I myself understand either to be "about"; nor do I understand the two "things" to be the same -- and if you choose to answer some or all of my questions, perhaps we can delve into the differences in how we understand those constructs.)
Then at the very end you return to concerns about teacher unions (#5) and school choice (#4). As noted above, although I hear *that* you are concerned about both these areas, I'm not clear about *what* you fear may be happening, or how the two related to "CRT" or "DEI."
Please believe that I am, genuinely, trying to understand where you're coming from.
I understand if you are disinclined to engage in a serious way. Because doing so is HARD.
I will not rehash the old threads as Plum posted multiple examples of how CRT has actually been being implemented in the classrooms. As I have also stated multiple times I believe schools are failing children in academics. Their focus should be on preparing children for the future not teaching social justice.
Someone up thread posted that they work with a very diverse group and school needs to prepare children for that. Really?? Doesn't living your life prepare you for that? That's the parents responsibility to teach their children to treat all people with respect. I too work with a very diverse group. So what? I treat each of them as I would like to be treated.
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Not in the swamp or the AT. IMO, the swamp was a red herring of his parents creation to protect their ahole son and give him more time to escape. He has $1000 of Gabby's money and probably a stack of the enabling parents cash too to hide out on. I hope there is a way in the end the parents can do some time in prison for their part in this as well (if it can be proven they did as I speculate). It is appalling that the authorites were not called immediately when to creep came home with her van without her! I have no sympathy for them whatsoever even if he is dead.
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1 minute ago, Lady Florida. said:
You didn't answer what's wrong with the above. I fail to understand how being against these is NOT racist.
Nothing on the face of them. It's how they are implemented as I already stated. Just like CRT they claim it's one thing but in the classroom is is not presented that way just as @Roadrunner has already posted. Schools need to be focused on academics not social justice. If you and others would prefer your schools to focus on social justice then allowing for school choice would be a good way to ensure parents can choose the education they would like for their children to have. What's wrong with school choice? You haven't answered that yet.
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Prayers, good thoughts for DIL's interview! 2nd interview in half an hour!!! Update 2!! Woohoo!
in The Chat Board
Posted
Praying for her to get an offer.