[Oldie back after long hiatus]

46 minutes ago, fraidycat said:

This. Hello!

Hi. It really has been a minute but I hope you are doing well. 

 

[Oldie back after long hiatus]

55 minutes ago, Catwoman said:

I don't need any homeschooling books, but I remember you, so I wanted to say hi! 

Hi. It has been a while. How have you been? 

 

[Oldie back after long hiatus]

Hi yall. I am not sure if some of you remember me from way back when. I used to be very active here as LongRamblings and before that kahlanne. Life happened. I actually am getting rid of lots of my homeschool books and wondered if people would be interested in me listing it or not since I haven't been around lately. Anything I list is open to offers as well but since it is quite a few things, I didn't want to do it if nobody would buy off a person they didn't recognize. 

[The Vaccine Thread]

53 minutes ago, ktgrok said:

Ugh, you were treated terribly! That said, of two doctors, one says he would treat you, even vaccinated, one said he would, then didn't. So I don't know if we can say that this is some plot to change numbers...and I don't think they even report on who does/doesn't get the antibody treatment. Just who is in ICU. So I think, sadly, you just had crappy treatment, from a crappy doctor. I hate that. I am so sorry you are so sick! 

 Thank you. I understand how you can see it that way. I also know why it has  left me, a provaccinater, jaded. *%#  it should not be that way. We should be able to trust doctors and scientists and until we can we are stuck with this crappy covid! 

[The Vaccine Thread]

I haven’t read all of this but did see above someone mocking the idea that healthcare workers will withhold drugs to push an agenda but I am a firm believer that the virus and vaccine is being politicized on both sides and it is a crying shame! I would like to tell my recent story. 
 

I am obese, was before covid, and am working on losing weight but just as it easier to say that you should have had savings in case of emergency, like covid, it is easy to say you shouldn’t have let your health go. Covid hit our health and finances suddenly and neither can be changed overnight. I also have high blood pressure treated with medication and am prediabetic, not medically treated per doctors orders. I have had other health issues lately that pushed me over the edge toward vaccination. Both myself and my husband vaccinated in March fully. I quarantined nearly entirely for a full year and always wear a mask if I ever entered any business during 2020. 2021 opened up our area and all masks were dropped but I still limited contact far greater than most around. A few weeks ago my 20 year old visited us, without symptoms, and later that night became sick. She had covid. She gave it to me. She is unvaccinated and it took her a full week to recover or maybe more. She quarantined for 12 days total. As I said I caught covid from her and my younger children did as well. My youngest had mild symptoms, next in age slightly more symptoms, and 15 yr old asymptomatic. My husband never tested positive or had any symptoms. Again both he and I are fully vaccinated in March. Days 1-4 were bad for me but tolerable. Day 5 I ended up at ER. My Bp and insulin was highly elevated along with other covid issues but I didn’t have pneumonia. The doctor insisted that I return if I got worse because pneumonia could set in. He stated that was the only thing keeping me from getting iv antibodies treatment, the lack of pneumonia. By two days later I was begging my husband to call 911. I lost all body functions, passed out multiple times, Bp and insulin skyrocketed, and I couldn’t breathe. Back to ER we went. Chest XRay showed pneumonia. Blood was drawn and 6 of the tests had warning symbols beside them. I could not get the doctor to give me details about each test so I still don’t know what they meant. He said it was expected because I was the sickest he had seen with covid of vaccinated patients. BUT he said be encouraged because as of yet NO vaccinated person has had to have additional treatment. I was placed in a room with monitors where the alarms randomly sounded,6 or more times, and never had anyone enter the room to check on or explain to me anything. The last I saw them was when they drew blood and did the ekg. Oh and when I asked for a pillow but was told people steal them so they no longer give them. I was not given an iv and was told I could walk myself to bathroom anytime I wanted just unhook. I had one small water I brought with me and was only brought another when my husband called to complain that I had not been seen in hours nor had any water. There were no visitors allowed. The nurse came in and assured me they were watching the monitors from their desk and brought water. Shortly after I was asked to walk with nurse and then placed back on monitors. After she left I noticed the monitors were not working and tried multiple times to get them to work. They were not answering call button. 30 +minutes later I was told by nurse that I was being discharged as my stats were fine. I asked how she knew since I didn’t a working monitor and she looked and said the other nurse forgot to restart it. I asked if I would see a doctor at all or have the labs explained before going. She said he would be in shortly. She did tell me when I was admitted that this was the slowest day they have had all week. I didn’t see any patients in lobby when I entered and only 3 when I left. Monday, 2 days before,  was crazy full. An hour later a PA assistant came in and said the doctor said I was good to go and no treatment available for me. I asked why not considering that two days before I wasn’t as sick and didn’t have pneumonia and was told if it worsened I needed to come in immediately for IV medication. It worsened so I did. The PA said the same doctor was on call and doesn’t see any treatment for me and it wouldn’t make sense for him to have told me that on Monday. I asked about labs and he said they basically say I’m very sick with covid but some just have to fight it naturally at home. No questions I asked got further answers. The nurse came in to discharge me and told me to take mucinex and at night a cough medicine they prescribed. She gave me some tips on what to drink/eat but otherwise I was the same as before I came there hours before. Two days later I had a second opinion with another doctor as I was struggling with pulse ox dropping to 84 then rebounding to stay at 88 before slowly rising to 91 max. The new doctor was appalled that they didn’t treat me with IV antibodies and said I fit all the requirements, she had all the files and labs, after I had pneumonia. She said the only reason she can begin to think they didn’t is because I was vaccinated. She said they had to saving it for the unvaccinated thinking being vaccinated should help me. She said they are not in short supply of meds and they are giving them daily. She said at the very least I should have been given a portable oxygen to help if necessary. She said the last day I could get that treatment was the day I was in the hospital. I could go back and try to get them to admit me for more extreme medications if it became worse but otherwise nothing she could do. She went over when to worry about the oxygen numbers, etc. for two more days I struggled with low numbers, not being able to keep anything but liquids down, weakness, covid tongue, etc. fever was the only thing I didn’t have on those two days. Day 13 is my fist day where I can stand up and walk without support, eat, and basically function as normal. I am slower physically and mentally but finally better. I know this is long but I said all this to say, I and the second opinion doctor are pro vaccine. I know the vaccine can work for some as my husband never caught it even as caregiver. I don’t know if the vaccine helped me by keeping me from dying or it just didn’t work for me and covid almost killed me. Yes, I feel there were several times I was at deaths door.  I also know being vaccinated kept me from getting the treatment that a friend and her 3 older kids got within the first week of getting sick. I also know with my obesity and health issues there is no way that all 4 of those met the requirements better than I. But they chose to not vaccinate. So on one had the vaccine was ideal for my husband. On the other it possibly helped me (no way to know) but it definitely hurt my treatment. So where do I go from here? I am grateful that my kids are healthy again, husband covid free, and I am recovering but I am also beyond angry. I should be able to trust doctors to do what they can to help me. Instead I was told multiple times that “Good news: NO vaccinated person has needed additional help.” Yet makes me wonder did they not need help or was it withheld to pad the stats. If I had seen the doctor even once that day he could have explained why I was no longer a candidate but he chose not to enter my room. So I have to make my own best guess and it has left me jaded. 

[9th grade English advice]

Sorry my posts are so long. Trying to be clear and as honest as possible so y’all can help. 

[9th grade English advice]

16 minutes ago, Lori D. said:

(((((hugs))))) So, so very sorry for all of the loss and difficulties you and your family have experienced in the past years, and especially during the pandemic. 😪

It is hard to not only get back into a school rhythm and back up to speed, after all the disruption you all have suffered, but to also have to move into a  new and higher gear of high school.

Perhaps you and DD#4 could use this summer to build a foundation, but in a fun way. Perhaps practice "digging deeper" and analyzing by doing so with films, rather than books? Or, choose a few shorter classics you can read together or listen to together, and then watch the film version, and discuss/compare? Or possibly enjoy using parts of the Movies as Literature program together?

I'm "liking" @chiguirre 's suggestion about the Glencoe Lit. Library guides (you can print the pdfs from the website if you prefer to have DD have a hard copy to work with rather than the computer 😉 ) -- but I would strongly encourage doing some of those books together. That would allow the 2 of you to select some high-interest books to start with, and transition into high school Literature -- all while you still see that the work IS getting done. 😉 

Another possibility: if your students would enjoy The Lord of the Rings (AND if the 9th & 7th graders *get along*, lol), perhaps combine the 9th and 7th graders and do the year-long Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings study all together. Read aloud together, or listen together to the complete edition by Rob Inglis, and then do the end-of-chapter notes and questions together. You could also have 9th grader do on her own several of the additional works discussed in the study, and use a Glencoe guide to go with some of those works. (Some of the works referenced in the study include: Beowulf, Macbeth, Midsummer Night's Dream, the Iliad or the Odyssey, Sir Gawain and the Green Knight.)

I *totally* understand the need for independence with 9th grader due to having 7th and 5th grader -- BUT... you may have to adjust your timetable and priorities for this year (or at least the first semester of this next year), and really help 9th grader get on track and into a good (i.e. NOT distracted) style of homeschooling and self-learning, with a lot of oversight and 1-on-1 interaction and discussion with YOU. And that needs to happen before you can loosen the reins a bit with 9th grader and expect that independent work WILL happen consistently and responsibly ;). And THEN you will be able to schedule more time and attention to the younger 2 students. Otherwise, there could be a very BIG potential for 9th grader falling through the cracks.

And honestly, as long as the 2 younger students are on track with their LA and Math, anything else they do is icing on top. (Fun Science and History shows and documentaries and kits or projects you can hand off to them, and books they can read during their solo reading time.) So that takes the pressure off of you to have to spend so much time with them next year, and gives you permission to pour your time/energy into the most pressing need right now, of the rising 9th grader. It's really important to nail 5 solid credits (English, Math, Science, Social Studies, and either Foreign Language or Fine Arts or an Elective) as she moves into high school, because it will be REALLY hard to catch up later if she continues in the "slacking habit" and falls behind with high school level work... 😉 

Totally NOT your fault with everything that has happen in the past few years! So be kind to yourself! And realize you ALL may need a gentle re-start after this crazy time.

And celebrate! Hurrah for DD#3 graduating in a field of her interest and strength and at the top of her class! And gratitude that so many of the sick family/friends are recovering! 😄

But setting up your DD#4 NOW for success with a lot of scaffolding and special attention to get her back on track as she steps into high school, will absolutely pay off big for you LATER (in a semester or a year). She'll have the good habits and routines established; with your help, she will have developed the tools she needs for working successfully independently.

Just my 2 cents worth (several times over, lol). 😉 Even in light of your brave, detailed second post, I still recommend the LA items (in my post up-thread) as being worth looking at to see if they might meet your needs. (And also consider the Glencoe guides + individual titles or the LLftLotR ideas.)

Wishing ALL of you the very BEST! Warmest regards, Lori D.

Thank you. Definitely following your suggestion of staying on top of her for a while especially the first semester. I have already started that. She had 6 lessons left in algebra and I believe she expected me to let her slide since that’s her best subject. I have insisted that she finish but in her own time. She can do them all in a day or spread them out over the next two weeks. We finished last week with everything else. We have already talked about books we can read and discuss during the summer. Her dad hates reading and said he will read every night for 15 minutes working up to 30 minimum if we do it as a family. (Separate books)  while waiting on replies I ran across Movies as Literature and ordered it right away. I think this would be perfect this summer. Thanks again for all your help. 

[9th grade English advice]

1 hour ago, Lori D. said:

Gently, and meaning this with all good will, from your post I see a few potential red flags that might be signaling a problem that might need to be addressed before considering / choosing curricula:

- DD scores above average in reading level -- but hates reading
- DD is behind in Writing -- many average students don't start to "click" with writing until about 9th grade when the logical thinking and analysis portions of the brain start maturing -- BUT, if there are other issues (struggles with getting thoughts from brain onto paper, run-ons and no punctuation/capitalization, regularly missing words or mis-worded sentence structure, etc. -- can indicate some underlying problems with processing / thinking / writing
- Sequential Spelling -- can be used by regular spellers -- BUT, it's also a good fit for students with dyslexia, so if Sequential Spelling is working for DD, and because she is still needing spelling beyond 8th grade, that can suggest the possibility of a learning issue
- workbooks -- can certainly be the student's preferred learning style -- but workbooks can also be easy to learn the trick of filling in the blank and avoid actual thinking or wrestling with the material for learning (which is a critical aspect of learning in high school -- analysis and synthesis)
- workbooks, because of their independent nature, can also make it easier for the student to "mask" possible LDs, by working away from parent oversight/involvement that could catch learning problems 

So, please disregard if I'm reading out of context. 😉 -- I had the experience of DS#2 with mild Stealth Dyslexia (affected Spelling and Writing to a large degree, and Reading to a lesser degree -- and Math to a huge degree.) But if you think that DD has been successfully masking mild LDs up to this point might be a possibility, I would get some testing to rule out vision convergence issues, stealth dyslexia, or other vision problems or mild LDs/processing issues FIRST.

And then I would think hard about how this particular student best takes in information and processes it (actually learns), along with thinking about what kind of *learning* needs to happen in high school -- reading, thinking, and interacting with the material (discussion, analysis,  synthesis).

And FINALLY I would start researching curricula to see what was the best fit as far as any possible LDs, the student's needs in learning style, and what materials best help *this* student step up into high school level work. JMO, so use or toss, as it helps (or not). 😉 

All that said, below are ideas for the different areas of LA for 9th grade English. Wishing you and DD all the BEST for a GREAT 9th grade English adventure! Warmest regards, Lori D.
____________________

LITERATURE

 LLATL
We used excerpts from the Gold levels of American and British Lit. It is "light". There is very little help or instruction for the literature, there are only a small handful of questions about the literature, and they are mostly comprehension, NOT thinking/discussion questions. There are a few ideas for writing assignments or projects, but no writing instruction and no grading rubric for the writing. LLATL is designed for the student who enjoys independent reading of classics; researching on their own about author / times/ the literature; and coming up with their own ideas for what to write about. So, yes it's independent, but no, it's not going to fit for a student who is not a self-motivated and eager learner.

Good & the Beautiful
JMO: All-in-one programs RARELY work -- most students do not fit neatly at the level of all of the Language Arts topics being covered. Also, G&B only covers OLD literature, so no exposure to or wrestling with contemporary issues or literature that is more recent than works published 75-100 years ago. No experience with any of the G&B levels, but FWIW, I hear that the topics covered in the elementary levels are all over the place in level, and that the middle/high school levels miss the mark in teaching needed skills for literature and writing.

Other options:
- together DIY: Figuratively Speaking + poems & short stories (ideas in this thread: "Figuratively Speaking paired with short stories")
- mostly independent: Lightning Literature 8 -- for gr. 7-9
- hybrid (together/solo work): Oak Meadow: The Hero's Journey -- complete 9th grade English program (Lit. & Writing)
- Lantern English: take 4 of the Literature 8-week courses + 4 of their Essay Writing series 8-week courses
____________________

WRITING

Write Shop
If it didn't work last year, it's not going to magically start working now (if only, right? 😉 ), so I'd switch to something else. Ideas:

Essentials in Writing (by grade level -- use the placement guide)
Video-based lessons. Also has an optional scoring service for $99 to grade/provide feedback on several of the writing assignements during the year. (If going with this program and wanting the scoring, sign up NOW, as these slots go fast.)

Jump In (gr. 6-9)
Fairly independent; covers all 4 types of writing (Descriptive, Narrative, Expository, Persuasive); teaches basic paragraph structure and moves from single paragraphs into multi-paragraph essays; helps guide the student in thinking of what to say, and how to organize their thoughts/writing. (It is designed to take 2 years by having the student do 4 weeks of free writing from provided prompts after finishing each unit, but we found the prompts to be lame and repetitive, so we skipped that and did the program in 1 year, no problems.)

Lantern English online writing classes
You would still need to help some at home, but all of the assignments and feedback are from an outside source, which can reduce a lot of friction of trying to work with writing with your child. (Many MANY children work better with writing for someone outside the home rather than for a parent.) I recommend taking four 8-week long classes of the Essay Basics series. Lantern also offers separate 
____________________

SPELLING and GRAMMAR
Sequential Spelling and Fix-It sound like good fits for your student.

Most students are done with these topics by the end of 8th grade, but if your student needs more support in these areas, definitely continue to work on these areas through 9th grade, or even all through high school, if needed. (For example: I had my average speller DS#1 doing Spelling through 10th grade, and my struggling speller DS#2 do pretty intensive spelling through 12th grade. Both had finished formal Grammar instruction by the end of 8th grade, but I had them do light Grammar review 2x/week for 10 minutes all through high school, just to keep fresh with Grammar esp. as it applied to Writing.)
____________________

VOCABULARY
Often comes in context of the Literature so you may not need a separate program. But if a workbook works best for this student, check out this series: 
Vocabulary From Classical Roots

Thank you for taking the time to give me such great advice. I understand why my post may seem to imply that my daughter has a language disorder even though that wasn't my attention.  In truth her issues are more with my downfalls rather than her own. I have three older children that have graduated or currently attending college. Our eldest two chose to attend public school after homeschooling a while. My third eldest struggled with school from the very beginning and it wasn't until middle school that we realized she was dyslexic and had an auditory processing disorder. It was extremely difficult figuring what worked best.  My younger kids excelled at whatever programs I gave them so I began to focus more strongly on daughter #3.  Daughter #4, the current 9th grader the post is about, loved reading at this time and excelled with all the classes she is average at now. I allowed her to choose the books she wanted to read but there was a required amount to accomplish.  Daughter #3 Junior and Senior years were so difficult with playing catchup for graduation that I didn't realize my daughter #4 becoming a teen and doing just enough to officially finish. She kept her scores A/B range and slowly read less and less without heavy prompting.  I tried to stay on top of everything but I had to spend so much time preparing my oldest for graduation. Then 2020 hit. It may not have impacted other homeschoolers drastically with school but became a factor with ours. We lost 5 family members to corona, some distant but all hitting hard. We also had several that were hospitalized with severe symptoms that recovered.  Of our closest family members, numbering 34, 25 of them had corona and this doesn't even account for friends or the time we were exposed. My eldest was the only one that had corona of our household. My stepdad, their grandfather, passed away from corona 2 weeks from our first planned visit in a year.  Then I had a medical issue arise that slowed us down for a couple of weeks. Any other year it would have been handled quickly but doctor's appointments were much harder. In the end, we like everyone else struggled and I was just happy to be able to get their school must do's completed. Daughter # 3 graduated and will graduate top of class in cosmetology school in a few weeks.  This year we have worked diligently on our school and accomplished so much but I came to the realization that daughter #4 is slacking whenever possible. Again, she is doing the work and capable of more but not pushing herself unless I am on top of her.  She is bad to pull up other tabs on her computer while doing her math classes online rather than spending the entire amount of time on studying. Or  she claims she  is reading but will waste time daydreaming, phone,, computer, until caught.  Etc. Obviously from her reading scores on achievement tests she isn't struggling with it as much as she pretends.  Anyway, I would like to choose a program that does give her independence so that I can not have her my primary focus of the three yet still where I can step in and make sure she is implementing it well.  I am going to try to push her harder while maintaining  more balance than I did with our previous daughter.  So now you know my deep dark secret. 

[9th grade English advice]

My daughter is entering ninth grade and I would love your advice for our English/Language Arts curriculum.  Her achievement test scores showed well above level in reading, average in vocabulary and  grammar.  Even though we made slight progress in writing this year both of us found Write Shop 1 difficult to use and the result has left her behind in writing.  She hates reading and prefers workbook style learning rather than my preference of  Charlotte Mason style.  We used English Lessons Through Literature as well this year but it was like pulling teeth. I also need to choose more independent choices for her as I have an 7th and 5th grader. Now I am not sure what to choose for next year. Below is a list of curriculum that I am considering and would love your thoughts. 
 

The Good and the Beautiful (too Charlotte Mason? Not independent enough? )

 

Learning Language Arts Through Literature ( love the look of this. The samples seem workbook enough for her and CM enough for me. I don’t know what level to choose. To meet state requirements I would need to go with Gold but is it too advanced for a beginner writer? Is there a way to make it work or should I choose a different level and work up?) 

create my own program:

Spelling: continue with Sequential Spelling

Vocab:???

Writing:continue Write Shop 1 since she is learning even though slow and cumbersome 

Grammar: Fix It Grammar (she previously used Easy Grammar and wants a change)

Literature:???

 

 

 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

13 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

You do know what the fate of Jews is (if they don't see the light) when there is a second coming, right? I don't mean to sound snarky here, but right-wing Christian support for Israel isn't necessarily rooted in friendship from my perspective.

Bill

Oh I understand and honestly I am not well versed in the second coming as a Christian.  I find Revelation and all the dispute about the second coming tiring and honestly it has created more fear in my mind than necessary. I figure that as a Christian I just have to believe Jesus will come back, live according to his commandments, repent more times than imaginable but still not enough, and let Him worry about when to return. I am not saying I shouldn't try to learn about that time but I just am not in the right place with my walk to focus on that time right now. I also see how this is considered unfriendly to unbelievers at the very least but they have the choice to believe in Jesus or not just as I do. They can choose their own religion or lack of one.  I am sure not everything in every religion is favorable to myself as a nonbeliever or Christian. I don't force my beliefs on them. 

 

 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

22 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

It's really nice to think that everyone makes that distinction. Too many people do not. Which is why I fear for my children's and my safety. The people who spat on my friend's child and get friend didn't ask if they were pro-Zionist or even Israeli. They just knew they were Jewish (because of their dress I'm assuming).

I am sorry for that. I didn't make that distinction because of ignorance. Even so I wouldn't stand for mistreatment of a Jew, Israeli, or Zionist or any other label you want. It is so wrong.  So an Israeli can be Jewish but not every Jew is Israeli and not every Israeli is Jewish?  Not every Jew and Israeli is pro-Zionist, correct? Is there a term for one that is anti-zionist? 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

19 minutes ago, SeaConquest said:

I am a Jew. I support a strong defense for Israel, as it is surrounded by adversaries whose mission each day is to actively work towards its annihilation. I also pray for a two-state solution that will build a peaceful, liberal democracy for the Palestinians. Perhaps, that is a unicorn.

As for Christian support, I know it is an unpopular opinion, but as Bill said, I don't think most of these fervent Israel supporters give a hoot about Jews. It's all about the second coming of the big man for them, and Jews have no place in that world to come. So, forgive me if I am not impressed by this faux support.  

ETA: I also agree with Yael and Bill re Bibi. Times up, buddy. 

I have questions about your first paragraph but I would prefer to keep it private so you won't have to justify your responses to others if you don't mind my messaging you. 

As for the Christian supporters, I can't speak for everyone but if you had asked me last year I would say I stand with Israel without any real knowledge as to why other than it being  Biblically  the right thing to do which is connected to the second coming.  Yes, it is disingenuous and wrong and something I am trying to rectify now.  

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

14 minutes ago, YaelAldrich said:

Bill, you more or less said what I would say. I'm more hawkish in Israeli politics than American. But Bibi is trying to hang onto power he definitely doesn't deserve any more. I wish for peace. But not at the cost of my friends' and family's lives. I have an app set to alert me every time a barrage of Hamas and Hizbolla missles is launched into Israel. I recognize names of cities and villages I have visited and ones with friends and family having 0 seconds to 1.5 minutes to find safe shelter. It goes off all the time. If you want to join me, look on the app store for cumta red alerts. 

 

I couldn't sleep well the last few nights just thinking about the plight of both Palestinians and Israelis. I am not talking about politics but the actual individuals, the moms, dads, grandparents, children.  I keep saying what if it was I that was needing to rush to a shelter in Israel or rushing from a targeted building in Gaza.  What if I disagree with who is in charge of making the decisions but don't have any real control over it.  Truth is Americans should be more sympatric to this plight than we sometimes are.  Our own elections exemplify how you can do everything in your power to have the person you want to lead be chosen but then realize the opposite was chosen instead.  (by this I am not limiting it to the last election.)   It is too easy to say choose better leaders.  And when it comes down to it, my heart is broken for them all. If I am struggling with the bias or lack of clear, precise answers, then how can I fault both countries for struggling as well?  

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

11 minutes ago, Tanaqui said:

Without getting into any sort of details - because gosh, that's a tricky subject - it's important to remember that "Jewish" and "Israeli" are not synonyms and, for that matter, that Israelis are no more or less likely to agree with their government on everything their government does than Americans are.

It is extremely important to be clear on this topic.

Hmmm.....ok. I originally thought this way but then the more videos and comments I read led me to believe that I was wrong.  I always understood that not everyone will agree with their government. I'll go one farther and say not all Christians will agree with other Christians, Jews with Jews, Palestinians with Palestinians, etc.

 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

10 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Here is my perspective. I am not religious, but am interested in all three Abrahamic faiths on an intellectual level and have studied all in depth. I grew up with many Jewish friends, consider myself "Jewish adjacent" and have been named an (unofficial) honorary Jew by rabbis in three different branches of Judaism--from ultra-orthodox to reform (liberal). I studied international relations in university with an emphasis in the middle-east. My closest college friends when to Lebanon to cover the turbulence prior to the 1982 war with Israel. My plan was to join them, but the conflict broke out before I could do so.

My college cohort included a future (and current) UN ambassador from a neighboring Arab country, many other Arabs from Palestine, Israel, Lebanon, Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia as well as many American Jews who ranged from strong Zionists to strong anti-Zionists. My two best college friends remained working journalists in the region.

I've studied the history of the region in depth. Learned to speak and write rudimentary Arabic. Have met with important leaders in the Palestine authority and leading intellectual figures.

What can I say? Both people have legitimate narratives. Both have legitimate aspirations. Both bleed. Both have committed atrocities. Both have amazing human capital. Both have a lot of assholes in their midst.

Never people have been well-served by their leadership IMO. Hamas (a deliberate creation of the Israelis in large measure) is not a force for good. Likud is reprehensible. And the PA operates much like the Godfather.

The two societies are highly diverse and mirror one another (very strongly) and in many ways are more alike across cultures that within their own group. Both have educated individuals with liberal outlooks and both have narrow minded maximalists who want no concessions.

The situation keeps getting pushed to the extremes and that's not an accident. Hamas and Netanyahu each find it in their interest to have the situation inflamed.

It is neigh on impossible to have nuanced discussion online, and I may end up regretting this post.

For Americans to jump on and support one side while demonizing the other only add to the extremism and isn't helpful IMO. Both peoples have compelling narratives.

As to right-wing Christian support for Israel on some sort of theological basis, remember that many see Israel as something that's a precondition to their millennial hopes for a "second coming," but also remember that the Jews who don't convert upun Jesus' return are earmarked to burn in hellfires for eternity. Is that "friendship," or something else? 

Bill

 

 

 

I did my university training

Thank you for this.  Man was I right when I said that I knew welltrainedminders  was the place to find people that were educated and experienced on the topic.  I hope you don't regret this post as well which is why I asked people to message me rather than post here. I don't want hard feelings, etc to come from my need to learn.  I will say that a couple of the things you said I had formed the same opinion but wasn't sure if I was understanding things well enough to form those opinions or was it my bias or ignorance doing so. I was even doubting my intellectual ability to learn as I am not well spoken and had very limited education in politics and world on a grand scale before adulthood.  Anyway, thank you so much for the response. 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

4 minutes ago, Faith-manor said:

Whoa!!! I have words. None are polite enough to be shared on this forum.

This is what is scaring me. Fascists coming out of the woodwork. I would prefer they stay in their holes afraid to come out.

I am sorry if my post is pulling you out of your safe space. That really isn't my intention.  Everyone deserves safety and I wish everyone had it.  Wishing it to happen doesn't help it seems so I am trying to learn so that I can live better and do a better job of teaching  the next generation that while politics is great to discuss always remember in all your grander choices to consider the individuals it impacts and what you can do to minimize the damage for yourself and others.  

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

Just now, YaelAldrich said:

Kahlanne, I remember you. I hope you join the political group. 

Thank you. I don't post lots because I am not as knowledgeable as the rest of y'all.  I will say y'all have challenged my beliefs more times than not and been the catalyst for my challenging them myself. I tell my kids all the time that the reason I watch opposing politics more than those that share my view is because I already know how I feel and need to see if it stands the test when opposed.  Opposition will either destroy my opinion or make it stronger but  it is always better for the challenge.  It also gives me the opportunity to learn why others feel differently than I.  My new motto is that if my beliefs cannot stand up to my own challenges then they are only my opinion and not beliefs that I should hold with such force.   

Besides that you have all helped me tremendously over the years in my homeschool journey. My dyslexic child would have never graduated without that help!  She not only graduated but won a $20k scholarship to attend Cosmetology school and is graduating top of her class! Matter of fact, she was the only student to pass the boards test on the first try.  Want to hear something funny? She failed the corona questionnaire that is basicly  have you been exposed, etc because she thought the final question asking if you agree with the above answers was tricky. She had answered no to all the corona exposure/risk questions and couldn't understand how answering yes to the do you agree meant she wasn't agreeing that she was exposed but that she hadn't been. LOL. When they finally got through that she had to take a pretest on how to work the computer system and failed it because she said they were tricky questions as well. I am not sure how but they finally said she was out of time and just had to figure out the computer on her own.  She didn't have any trouble and passed with higher than an 80. Don't have official grade but all the others in her class failed and a few failed a second time.  Anyway, I know I wouldn't have made it through teaching her had it not been for the people helping me choose programs that worked for her. Thank you. 

 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

Just now, Pawz4me said:

Try this link. If that doesn't take you to a page where you can request to join then post again and one of us will try to help.

No it says can't locate the item. Is there a way to remove this question here and get it asked on the politics board? 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

12 minutes ago, Spy Car said:

Yesterday, for example, here in Los Angeles presumed Jews were attacked on the street by a gang of thugs as they dined on the sidewalk outside of a restaurant in a Jewish neighborhood.

Bill

 

Makes it more understandable that people are skeptical to discuss. I am so sorry that this happened. I had no idea. 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

1 hour ago, Not_a_Number said:

Oh, I'm sorry to hear that 😞 . What's been going on? 

And I am also not getting into it with someone I don't know. 

Understandable.  Thanks for your honesty. 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

1 hour ago, YaelAldrich said:

Long ramblings, there are Jews in this board but since you are new to the board I know I'm more than wary of engaging with a complete stranger about this issue. Right now Jews are being verbally and physically abused unless they don't espouse any pro-Israeli views.

I can understand that and am sorry it is that way. I would be wary as well. I have actually been around since I started homeschooling years ago but lost my password and couldn't recover it. Kahlanne was my original name.  I knew nobody may choose to answer because of these reasons but honestly don't know how to get information of people experiencing both sides without asking people I trust their educated opinions. I will continue to pray for both sides to find peace and will continue to try to learn more so I can understand and do what I can when I can to make the world better.  Much love sent your way. 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

1 hour ago, Jean in Newcastle said:

This board has a no politics rule that you might not be aware of as a new poster.  There is a political group on the Club tab that you might want to join.

Oh, how do I join?  I actually was hoping people would just respond via private emails so this wouldn't get political here. I just don't know where else to ask these questions where I valued the opinions. 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

1 minute ago, Not_a_Number said:

There are plenty of Jews on the board 🙂 . If you stick around, you’ll hear from everyone.

I just hope my questions don't come off as blaming either side.  It is  aimed at Jews because of my lack of personal encounters with them. Which  shows me I need some Jewish friends.  Honestly I didn't know anything about Palestinians until my daughter started working for Arabs and then later started dating their son. The family is definitely passionate about their views as they have family in Palestine, understandably, but I don't want to form an opinion based solely on their views without having  a Jewish perspective. Even then my views will forever be flawed because it won't be my experiences but I am trying. 

 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

1 hour ago, Homeschool Mom in AZ said:

Don't be surprised when people living in democracies support political ideologies that most closely resemble their democracy.  That's a separate issue from how a democracy actually functions relative to its own ideals because no democracy is operating without serious issues that need to be resolved and watched out for continually, but it's very hard for people living in democracies that promote tolerance and egalitarianism to lend political support to political leadership with ideologies that aren't on board with those things.

That's the big Islam problem.  It's hard to support political leadership in groups that appear to be inherently opposed to our political ideals. For Muslims who do want egalitarian and democratic rule, hopefully they'll "get the microphone" in addition to political influence to make cultural changes that match those values and we'll be able to in good conscience give them a seat at the table.

Separating religion and state is very important, even to religiously conservative people like me. While I can't condone homosexual behavior on religious grounds, I can in good conscience support gay marriage and the right of vetted by universal standards US citizens of all orientations to be chosen by birthmothers and adopt through fostercare. While I can't condone worshiping anyone other than the Christian God, I can fully support people's right to choose to worship or not worship who or whatever they choose without any negative governmental consequences so long as that worship don't infringe on any other person's rights.  While I don't condone divorce except in some situations, I can fully support the legal protection of both spouses and parents in fair, government recognized divorces.

We need that all around the world.

Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it, 

[Questions for Jews and Christians]

2 hours ago, gardenmom5 said:

This conflict goes back centuries.

I'm not going to get too into it.  I have a Christian acquaintance that lives in Israel, and teaches college.  (her husband's family are jewish.)  And my son's childhood friend that did her MA at the University of Jerusalem.  

I would just like people to keep in mind - Arabs in Israel have more freedom than in arab countries.  (and arabs who live there will tell you that too.).

I would also suggest you ask your arab friend why no arab country will take in Palestinian refugees.

Thank you for responding. I believe I know where you are going with this and can understand your points. I wish I had Jewish friends so that I could talk to them personally.  It has been going on for centuries and I know I am never going to understand it all but I do believe listening and educating myself will help me emphasize.  That is really all I can do.