Ditto. CC has huge gaping defects, but for today they are the best of the limited options in our area for our child.

Could you please specify your question? TY

We are test driving CC. They have a reasonably good turn-key system for younger children. Our local group is filled with fabulous people- especially the TEACHERS (not "tutors-" this "distinction without a difference" should be informal fallacy 1 that they teach.). The material is otherwise more than adequately challenging for crumb crunchers. The first important disconnect occurs in the discussion of the Philosophy of Science. There is a BIG disjunction between the Empirical method and metaphysics, and no amount of frosting is going to ever smooth this over. It's the Religion of Public School in reverse. Now, to the extent that the parents wish to maintain their children's purity of creed, this is EXACTLY what you want. However, if your goal in education is for your child to be properly prepared for the sciences and/or to be a competent apologist, then knowing the Empirical method inside and out is *sine qua non.* That said, without stirring any other parents' soup (because unlike the government, I RESPECT the SOVEREIGN RIGHT of parents to educate their children as they see fit), I can assure you that our children will not be lacking in this area. Finally, despite the wonderful things our local group is and does, make no mistake that CC is about as much of a ministry as Scientology is. Like Scientology, you are kept in the dark about what future steps REALLY are (in detail) and fed a lot of malarkey about proprietary systems and materials. ("Hey guys! I think I'll go out and patent arithmetic, puppy dogs, fluffy bunny rabbits, blue skies, and sun shine! I'll be rich! Whoo hoo!" CC plays a bad game of hiding the ball and they contort what is clearly a MLM business to masquerade as a ministry. As of now, the market is wide open for a competitor or some other honest broker of a Soup to Nuts, Lock, Stock, and Barrel, CompleteTurn Key Homeschooling system. That day has not arrived as of yet. Maybe someone will get on the ball. The barriers to entry are ridiculously low. And speaking of WIDE OPEN, keep your EYES wide open should you decide to purchase their products. In case your experience with CC goes sideways, always know in advance what your contingency plan(s) is(are). PS, One other thing- CC members are NOT background checked. If I walked in as a parent, and met another version of myself... ("myself" as the example so I do not unwittingly slander some other father and muddy their good reputation) ...with a nice suit and hair cut, would I simply TRUST that person to instruct my 12 year old daughter unsupervised? Yeah, neither would I and nor should you. Are females "safer" perhaps? Without being sexist, I think we all intuit the answer to that one. Some things are just tacitly understood. But you never know. I believe in background checks on EVERYONE. It's a pity that we can't do FORE-ground checks and predict the future bad behavior of people, a la the screen play *Minority Report.*

A non-human incorporeal entity can neither be Christian nor a ministry. This should be self evident.

Comparing Apples to Apples.... GOOD POINT on the rival hypothesis.

EXACTLY!

Without the context of the Z-Scores, percentiles, study design, etc. this doesn't tell us as much as it would appear. Yes, the raw scores may be higher, but if they are still less than 1 SD above the mean, it tells us NOTHING (for certain).

I don't think we actually have reliable, unbiased data yet. I only have anecdotes from other homeschoolers of all stripes (which encourage me a LOT!) and unverified claims by CC. No, my concern lies with transcripts produced by ANY non-accredited person or organization. We're in California, so we're are probably going to be on the forefront of any legal conflict. I know this all too well. I am well aware. My main goal is to give my child the BEST possible education within my means without foreclosing his college and grad school possibilities, should he choose to pursue that. I am myself a "product" of the California PS system. (Actually, I'm a product of being autodidactic, but that's another story.) As such, I know all too well the horrors and institutionally wasted opportunities provided by PS. I want my child to have BETTER so that he can choose to become more than a proletarian thrall, if he likes.

Homeschool In-a-Box SELLS. CC's growth is the proof of that. And clearly this is adequate for Elementary school levels. But is it an adequate bridge to top colleges? This REALLY matters a LOT for those potential Phi Beta Kappa (or equivalent) level students. This also REALLY matters for students headed to grad school. Imagine your child having to attend medical school in the Caribbean, say, because their pre-med program program was at XYZ State. And suppose this occurred because your student couldn't get admitted to Cal, University of Spoiled Children, UCLA, etc. pre-med? Suppose the difference in education caused a 5 percentile shift in the student's MCAT score? And suppose, in turn, that this whole chain of events started because some uptight admissions counselor stuck his/her nose up in the air at the prospect of a "Homeschool" high school transcript. When you consider the opportunity costs, lost earning potential, and so on, it quickly becomes obvious why failure isn't an option for at least SOME students. After all, are not most of us not here because we elected to FIRE the Public School system? Imagine the irony of our children getting a stellar HOMESCHOOL education only to have the door slammed in their faces at the post-secondary or graduate level. Imagine the irony of some Public School student with half their mental faculties and breadth of education taking YOUR child's seat at Harvard? That would the WORST. That would be like getting scalded with boiling oil. Maybe I'm too anxious and uptight. Maybe I'm worried without good cause.... But I do not wish to blithely make mistaken decisions on my child's behalf which will hurt him later in life. I don't think that it's unreasonable to be cautious.

Assets minus Liabilities equals Net Worth

All true above, but let us not forget that CC provides an economically disruptive and competitive force to the education economic and social markets, and this is a GOOD thing. Let us remember not to make the Perfect the Enemy of the Good. Clearly, CC has failed to invent the perfect mouse trap and if even a tenth of the negative reviews are true, they are incapable of remediation. That said, this leaves the market WIDE OPEN to new entrants. New entrants have to solve the economic market problem and be a successful bridge to post-secondary education. So this brings us back to: Is it possible to bring a homeschool in-a-box product to market, have it affordable, have it succeed, and have it work in communities so that all the angles are covered and specialized cooperation results in superior education? Or is the preceding question predicated upon a Socialist Utopian Scheme that can never be anything more than Dystopian? We have ONE best opportunity to educate our kids and it is essential that we not miscarry that opportunity. If we fail, how then are we any better off than we would be sending them to Los Angeles Unified School District?

Here's a link snapshot of their gross financials: $4.2 million AGI in 2016. http://www.buzzfile.com/business/Classical-Conversations,-Incorporated-910-673-0100 Dunn & Bradstreet or ChoicePoint would have better info. Remember that Gross is NOT the same as the bottom line, but that there was enough bottom line in 2010 for Leigh Bortin to pay out a cool million in taxes- in her OWN words- link below: http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/27/pf/taxes/warren_buffett_tax_millionaires/index.htm As for the history of litigation, Lexus/Nexus would be the place to start. Your local law library may grant free access to this service- or not. Unless it's REALLY big, you won't find it just scanning the internet. But as I've said elsewhere, I'm not convinced that I have seen evidence of some overarching evil scheme.

It is EXACTLY like Avon Multi-Level-Marketting- You've hit the nail on the head.

The reviews on CC are indeed mixed. The FACTS about CC, like the reviews, are ALSO mixed. If you are new or need a turn-key, Lock, Stock, and Barrel, all-in-one package, then this is a good choice to examine. If you NEED a homeschool community and don't otherwise have one, then it's a good choice to examine. The package curricula is pretty good- You can sure do a lot worse than CC curricula. If you have more than one child, your capital investment can be reused for each kid. CC honestly is a really good simile of Classical education, insofar as the curricula is concerned. Finally, and this is VERY important, they bring a genuine concentrated competitive force to counter-weight the Public School system. Competition is the very thing need to improve ALL school systems from homeschool to private school to public school. On the flip side.... If you are on a tight, tight budget, and your money is more valuable than your time, you can invent the wheel yourself and save a fortune using FREE or less expensive resources. The Tutors are NOT teachers, although they would like you to believe the contrary. YOU, the parent, have to stay on top of this and not lean into the tutors too much. You may win the lottery and get a super brilliant, highly educated, motivated tutor that loves kids- or perhaps not. The ones I've met so far are above reproach. Got a special needs kid or one who thrives on Montessori or Charlotte Mason? CC might be a mismatch for you. Maybe. This IS Multi Level Marketing- make NO mistake about it. This is a BUSINESS, not a "ministry" ("ministry" that's just giggle silly). If you ENTER the business, and your ONLY reason for doing so is to make money, you are likely to conflate cash flow with profit. But have no fear, the IRS (and state tax agencies) won't make this mistake and will likely disallow your business losses as HOBBY losses, and therefore you lose the tax deduction if you lose money more than 3 years out of 5. This is that same way they treat Avon, Amway, etc. MLM reps during tax return examination. It's an audit flag, unless you actually make a profit. Does CC pass all 17 Independent Contractor tests? Nope. You ARE a defacto employee, so just be sure you don't get hurt on the job, because then there will be a fight over whether you're a de jure employee or not (varies by jurisdiction). Your accountant can help you with the byzantine tax rules on this "IC vs. Employee" situation. Speaking of accountants, unless you are experienced with small business bookkeeping, hire out your bookkeeping. The Bottom Line: It's mostly great stuff and good people. But... EYES WIDE OPEN. I suggest googling NEGATIVE reviews. They are more telling than when everything goes well. Read these for example: http://www.thecorkums.com/2015/06/10/why-cc-is-on-probation-for-our-family/ http://oneduffy.blogspot.com/2013/12/cc-verify-then-trust.html

Here's the video link I referenced above: Roger Williams and the Creation of the American Soul by John M. Barry. It's a historical perspective and philosophical analysis of the history of the Separation of Church and State and why it was so prominent in the Founder's thinking. This could definitely be on topic for home schoolers teaching the history or religious liberty in the USA. This piece is NOT opinion neutral or unbiased, so "Eyes Wide Open" everybody.