sbgrace
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Posts posted by sbgrace
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If you are learning phonics in the context of real books then you are using elements of whole language. If you are using real books along with phonics or sharing your enjoyment of books by reading to your child then you are using elements of whole language.
I think I'm following what you're saying. But I'm not sure you're seeing the distinctions that others here see.
Using pure phonics and also reading (to the child) good books and sharing your love of books is phonics. The actual reading instruction is via a solid, systematic phonics program. The reading books to kids isn't meant to be reading instruction. I read books to my boys from babyhood like many parents. I didn't do reading (phonics) instruction until they were much older of course. We read great books all the time. But they are learning to read in a very systematic, explicit phonics way. They are loving it.
The first sentence, though, you wrote is not the same thing! Statistically, learning phonics in the context of real books is an unnecessarily risky approach to take for reading instruction.
Can you see the difference between the two?
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I noticed on a thread about AAS that many people didn't use it every day but rather 2-4 days a week for 15 or so minutes at a time.
Do you do Phonics Road I every day? It's a longer program based on their website, correct? Do you split content among days in some way?
I'm teaching phonograms right now and assumed I needed to do it every day. Do I though? I'm reviewing all every day (both reading them/decoding and identifying by sound/encoding) and then introducing a new phonogram or reviewing the previous day's phonogram more in depth. But this is adding significantly more daily "school" time than we've had prior and I know when we get further into it it will take longer, correct?
So..I'm wondering how much time you would spend and if it needs to be daily in your mind?
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I've got a different kid but similar "stuff" in that he's learning challenged in certain areas in significant ways, school resistant in areas that aren't his strengths, and mildly/atypically on the autism spectrum.
What I struggle with is do I focus on his strengths or trying to remediate the weak areas to the best of my ability. Ideally I balance but there is only so much time so....
Here is my thinking. My kid is naturally going to do what he loves. You can't force most kids (let alone a spectrum one!) to deviate from their natural bent nor would you want that. So he's self selecting activities that build on his strengths. I'm enjoying those areas with him. I love just observing the joy he gets in those areas but I don't need to encourage his development in those ways. Particularly at the young ages. I believe his weaknesses are going to hamper his success in life (as a whole/talking beyond career in his case) and it's easier to work on areas younger. Therefore, I focus on making him as successful as possible in the problem areas in the least objectionable way that I can essentially. He's incredibly sensitive to being competent in an area (any area) and shuts down if he feels unsuccessful. So it's a balancing act here. I'm further hindered because my kids have weaknesses in different areas.
Anyway, I'm focusing primary energy (and money) on working in his areas of disability both academically and in autism/social areas. I'm also doing things he loves of course.
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Foreign language (modern)--wouldn't matter to me which one but having a native/fluent speaker teach it would be amazing.
Music
For my dysgraphic child handwriting of any sort would be wonderful to outsource (wish I could afford OT!)
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I think any math at these ages is going to be "teacher right there with the child" type of intensive? With RightStart (as you know) you don't have any planning. I'd be more inclined I think to do RightStart A with the six year old at just 15 minutes per day and/or have the olders work with the younger. Or if the little one can handle A combine. When I got through B (maybe a bit of C) and the six year old is older and more independent but has that solid grounding I'd switch to something like Math Mammoth/CLE/etc. that is less teacher involved. Then I'd tackle the young guy at 15 minutes a day again--I'm imagining your olders, though, could handle 15 minutes a day with the little ones to teach RightStart.
If I didn't have 15 minutes a day for math I'd skip formal math for now honestly. They'll learn through life and you can start when they are older and more independent and grasping it all is faster and easier. I just can't imagine kids that young getting a solid math basis without someone right there guiding.
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If you look at statistics most who die of anaphylaxis did get an epi pen at some point. But they got it too late in the reaction. And to my surprise too late is pretty early into it. The most effective time to give in epi pen is very early into the reaction. The take home for me was waiting until I was certain/things got worse/breathing was affected/etc. was potentially deadly.
Our plan says epi for any known exposure with the ana item or any two body systems affected. Epi, then 911, then benadryl. The most deadly reactions are actually blood pressure drops and time is imperative there. A significant portion of anaphylactic reactions never have hives/skin involvement. Anyway, I've never used it with my son but in retrospected we majorly messed up with his anaphylaxis and I hope I'll follow protocol if we're ever faced with it again.
And....reading your description I wouldn't have known if that was anaphylaxis either! I probably wouldn't do cherries again unless you can test him first but I can't tell that was actually a reaction. Side note: why was your son eating cherries if your husband is severely allergic to them?? If he's actually anaphylactic I wouldn't want them in my home let alone in my child's mouth (whom hubby might kiss?) I'm a little confused or maybe I'm misunderstanding. But my further understanding is that you can inherit a propensity to allergies general but you do not inherit allergies to specific foods. So your husband's cherry allergy does not mean a child of his is more likely to have a cherry allergy compared to the general population. My son's tree nut anaphylaxis doesn't mean his brother or a future child is at increased risk to react to nuts. A future child might inherit allergies though.
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I just wanted to mention another (rare but often overlooked) cause of continued kidney stones. My sister had parathyroid disease. I believe these would be calcium stones. Blood calcium levels in the 10's and above are never normal and indicate parathyroid disease (which is entirely curable). The stones were her only known symptom though after treatment she felt better than she had in "forever" according to her.
Information: http://parathyroid.com/parathyroid-symptoms.htm
I think anyone with kidney stones needs a test (blood calcium and PTH I believe) as, even though this is not at all the most common cause, it's 100% treatable and has major impacts on health in general including reduced life expectancy if untreated.
People with hyperparathyroidism under the age of 40 have twice the risk of having kidney stones than people over the age of 40. If you have kidney stones you must check your blood calcium AND your PTH levels. You will continue to get stones if you don't remove the parathyroid tumor. -
Here is the information I put together for mitochondrial/metabolic signs after my son was diagnosed.
http://www.mothering.com/discussions/showthread.php?t=734501
hypotonia and developmental issues/autism are very common with mitochondrial disorder and also seen in other metabolic conditions especially those affecting fat metabolism.
If you see signs and want to know what testing options you have please let me know. In the area of mitochondrial especially who to see and etc. is tricky as many doctors (including genetics and even metabolics) still don't have the awareness of the condition to see the signs and expertise to test and treat despite it being one of the most common if not the most common metabolic conditions. I'm happy to help you. Treating my son has made a lot of difference. You've got at least some of the most common warning signs (how is energy?) and two children affected so I would definitely encourage you to look into this if it seems to be a possible explanation. I always worry I'll overwhelm people! But if you want any more information please let me know via pm or email or whatever! I'm happy to help.
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:grouphug: It's so hard to hear the words even when you see it coming.
Side note: Are you aware that hypotonia, developmental delays, autism are flags for metabolics. If not, would you like information about that area? My son's issues are similar and metabolic treatment has really helped him.
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I will certainly pray for him. :grouphug:
Kari, I hope this isn't taken as it isn't intended (my sister's husband was killed in an accident and her job performance certainly was severely impacted all on it's own) but I had a maybe not helpful thought. Is he struggling with solid sleep since Timmy's death? I'm just thought maybe if he is pharmacological sleep aids might help him some with the studying issues he's having if he can get rested-maybe enough to be able to pass.
My husband and I will be praying for clarity of mind for him as he prepares and we'll share the request with others as well.
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As homeschooling parents we need to continually keep an eye on how our children are doing and change things if necessary.
This is a valid concern which is why so few people use whole language alone. I utilize phonics or spelling with my kids. But whole language has a role in our homeschool too. I mix the 2 methods so I get the best of both worlds.
The problem is that the mixed approach (I'm talking about in actual reading instruction w/sight words and context/picture clues and the like and not environmental things like literature exposure/read alouds and similar) is not systematic phonics. And that approach is going to fail a number of kids on some level. Not all kids surely.
But it will fail enough that I think a solid, systematic approach from the start is the wisest and least risky approach for children as a whole. I believe, as I said upthread, that the non-sequential thinkers are actually at a higher risk with a mixed approach because their mind is less likely to naturally pick up on and utilize the phonic patterns compared to the sequential thinkers in the bunch. I think the highly sequential thinkers are more likely to pick up on the patterns no matter what you do or don't explicitly teach.
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I do think it is incorrect to assume a child will have difficulty reading without a systematic phonics program. Some will. Some won't.
I agree with you. But how do you know if your child is in the small group (it is small) who won't have difficulty at any point without systematic phonics? What is the benefit that makes taking that risk worth it? I don't see a risk to phonics. It isn't uninteresting or objectionable here and research doesn't support the idea it reduces enjoyment. I'm not seeing the upside to the risk that whole language/embedded phonics won't be enough for my own non-sequential child or any child for that matter. But beyond our particular children (since what I'm doing is working here and what you're doing is working there) is the idea that this is a good approach for the average child so a good educational approach. That is my concern.
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We selected the Sedona as well and are very happy! We had an Odyssey previously and are much happier with the Kia.
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My husband always has multiple books going at once. I prefer to read one book at a time. We often have a chapter book going and read others as well. But that's for family reading reasons and not the way I would like to do it! My kids would, I think, prefer to read the entire thing in one sitting as well. That's what we do with other chapter books.
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Quote from Wikipedia on whole language instruction:
I don't think the average child would fit with whole language. I think most children are sequential learners.
My child I referred to as having memorized (well) with a phonics program that just wasn't systematic enough is the type of child you're talking about I think. He's not at all sequential. He's very whole to part. But he wasn't getting the parts from a less than explicit phonics approach and I do see that as a major concern. He's getting it now. I suspect, actually, it might be making him a little more sequential of a thinker as we know what you do can change the brain but he'll never be a sequential learner. Hopefully he'll be a little more balanced than he would be otherwise. He gets lots of whole language exposure of course via read alouds, audio stories, and the like. Explicit phonics doesn't mean there isn't whole exposure as well. He has done really well with I See Sam books FWIW. He learned to decode, he's learning phonics, and he loves the stories. I'm doing phonograms now with him for spelling and it's going well. He's enjoying reading and he's now doing it phonetically.
I acknowledge that some kids will make those leaps without instruction. But I am certain not all will and that includes some non-sequential children. In fact, my theory is that those are actually more at risk and need more explicit instruction! But we're all influenced by our own experiences and mine has been different than yours with my own whole to part, non-sequential child especially.
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I'm thinking the cats might be better completely outside or completely inside. The issue is they are bringing in the outdoor allergens on the fur. So you've got cat dander and fur with outdoor allergens on top of that. I'd perhaps invest in high quality HEPA units instead of the fence unless you need the fence for J or another reason outside of the animals.
Our allergist told me to wipe the cats down with wet paper towels if I remember right to try to control the dander. I think a HEPA could go a long way. It's pretty much impossible to completely remove dander from a home even after the cats are gone. I'm sure we still have it and our cats have been gone for over six months.
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I just want to specify that the only study I've seen about reading attitudes and enjoyment showed no difference between whole language and phonics approaches. http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a917757336 We may feel it should matter but I've not seen it in my own children and I don't think research supports the idea either. I do think there is possible research merit to the idea of being given reading instruction before a child is developmentally ready to learn could affect reading for pleasure later in life. I think caution is warranted in that area. But I think it's important to state that those taught with phonics don't dislike reading nor do those taught whole language like it more or whatever the fear is in that respect.
I also want to say that there probably is a subset (a small subset) of kids that aren't getting enough/much out of phonics. But I think they are smaller than what you suspect.
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I think there is far more to it that sight words. Memorizing words by sight is limiting for sure. But I think the concept that we internalize the patterns in language by exposure has merit.
Whole language for writing encourages inventive spelling. It encourages a child to write the sounds he hears in the word. In reading it doesn't require a child to read exactly what is on the page. It focuses more on a child getting the correct meaning.
Whole language is about approaching learning through natural contexts of reading and writing. It is more whole to part. Whole word is an instruction method of teaching sight words. It is not the same thing as whole language.
Sure some kids will internalize those patterns without any explicit instruction or with partial phonics or combination phonics. I tried to acknowledge that in the post I made initially that you quoted. Some will. However, not all will at all and others will but not to the level that they need in order to successfully navigate things like spelling and more complex decoding/comprehension later. One of my kids was memorizing words. He was good at that so that I didn't even realize it at first. But 20 weeks into a seemingly successful "phonics" program that was just not explicit enough he could instantly "decode" anything he'd seen even once in the program but couldn't handle even simple novel cvc words. He was certainly not internalizing the patterns in language and this wasn't a pure whole language approach. I did everything I could to discourage that look at the first word or picture and guess pattern in him. He loves reading and we're using a very explicit and systematic phonics approach. So does my other son. Phonics doesn't mean disliking reading? I'm not sure where you got that idea?
Some kids might internalize it all-yes. I think there are kids who will learn despite the instruction method. I think a larger group will struggle at some level even if they read well in the early grades and a portion of those will struggle at a debilitating level. That first group won't suffer with phonics instruction and the larger group will suffer at some level if they aren't given explicit phonics instruction. You can do that explicit instruction with phonics based spelling by the way. On the other hand I would put an adult who struggles to decode new words at a less than functional level and you said that you didn't feel that was a problem in your own life. The adults I've talked to with that in my family didn't see it the way you do (a couple do struggle similarly to decode novel/complex words) though they all read fine. They all struggle with spelling at some level. Your spelling is good? That's unusual I think especially given you aren't completely able to decode new words. You must have a highly visual learning style/visualize words very well! Most people don't fall into that category.
How do they learn how to decode rather than guess? Are you sure this happens in the average child taught to read this way initially?Yes, as the the child grows the importance of reading exactly what is on the page grows. The guessing isn't forever. It is more in the learning to read stage than the reading to learn stage. It helps the child learn the joy of reading without getting bogged down in the exactness that can slow some children up and cause them to dislike reading. -
I'm thinking if she's outside during the day and comes in at night to a room J doesn't go into with a HEPA that would be the best you could do. Of course...then you've got outside dog on you. I don't suppose she can be bathed easily? How old is the dog?
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One thing that really surprised me about teaching my son to read was how little phonics instruction turned out to be necessary. The letter sounds, the e on the end, a few of the more common combinations, and that was it -- he could read. Somehow he could read words for which he hadn't even learned the relevant rules of phonics, which baffled me. I assume that there is some neurolinguistic explanation for how this all works, but I have no idea what that might be.
I think the explanation is likely that some kids are better at noticing those patterns to phonics themselves without explicit instruction. I also think that a significant portion of kids who learn to read without explicit instruction will falter at some point (especially in spelling or perhaps in decoding/comprehension when things get more complex in upper elementary and beyond). A group of kids are going to falter even initially without that explicit foundation.
When whole language (vs. phonics, not blended) was cycling through education several of my family members learned to read. That includes two grandparents, BIL, sister. All are very poor spellers and find it frustrating as adults. Two improved their spelling and reading of "new" words when they taught others to read using phonics as teachers. Two are good readers and two do ok but struggle with unfamiliar text decoding still. I think there is more balance today in instruction but I think a portion of kids are still going to falter, even initially, with too many sight words.
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Can the dog just stay outside or maybe in a garage or similar in the heat or night or etc? If he's got outdoor allergies the dog is bringing them into him which is a mess.
He likely doesn't handle methyl donors well and that can happen with some genetics (especially spectrum genetics) so folapro might be an issue too. You might want to look into work arounds for the methyl issues as he likely needs a lot of support in that area. In short, we did hydroxy b12 instead of methyl. I use drops my kids like. J may tolerate that better. If his bedroom is smaller (I think 160 square feet) I can suggest a pretty affordable air cleaning unit. Honestly--I think the HEPA's become even more important given the dog is bringing in allergens.
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Well, my son's allergens are also severe and include outdoor. Are you sure J doesn't also have outdoor (tree/grass/pollen) allergens? I mention that because that's a key issue here. If you've got animals outside that then come in they are bringing that stuff in on their fur. People coming in and out are bringing it on clothes and hair. I'm saying if his animal allergens are less severe than the outdoor you may be making it worse leaving them out (assuming they are also coming in). We tried to wipe animals down to lower dander and of course they never went in his room. Eventually we rehomed. That was hard and wasn't an easy decision. Talking to adults with animal allergies who were so miserable they rehomed their own animals or avoid visiting family with animals or etc. made that decision for me though.
For outdoor allergns we do showers when coming inside which is a pain in the rear but does make a huge difference for my son. I have a HEPA on the air handling unit to the house and a HEPA unit in his bedroom. If I could afford it I'd have them in his main play area in the house too but it's a huge room.
We've got a HEPA vacuum for carpet and steam mop for hardwoods/tile. My steam mop does carpets and I do that to kill any dust mites remaining after vacuuming. I do the couches too.
Shower before bed so he's not taking his allergens to bed with him.
We hot dry his pillow (you could freeze rotate instead). I wash all his bedding including stuffed animals on sanitize cycle and dry on hot.
We normalized his vitamin D though I think that ship sailed. We do probiotics. We do histamine lowering supplements including b12, folapro, vitamin C. I wish they were enough for us. He's on lots of meds like J and while we finally got the asthma pretty well controlled (all allergy triggered for him) and the allergies manageable he's still not 100% in terms of nasal especially in summer when his outdoor are most severe. I can't believe how hard it is to control them!
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Because weight is such a huge factor weight watchers (and the resulting weight loss) did the most for my family member. But my son takes a special form of coq10 for a metabolic condition and I know it's been shown in studies to lower blood pressure. I'd look into it/consider it. http://www.epic4health.com/bloodpresand.html The ones by Tischon Corp are different than what you get at the local store and what were used in the study (and studies for my son's condition, Parkison's, etc....all the studies with coq10). This is also the only form metabolics and similar doctors use for their patients. If you want to try it try it from them (epic4health) and do it at 200 mg. is my suggestion. It's safe and may help a lot.
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I'm wondering how it went for him today? :grouphug:
bible curriculum for 1st and 2nd grade
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted · Edited by sbgrace
I like Karen Henley's materials. The downside is they are 52 lessons per year. There is enough per lesson, though, to do it over 2-3 days. I like to do bible daily so I integrate it with GrapeVine studies as well. Grapevine alone might appeal to a lot of people and maybe us when we're older. But I really like the application and ideas with Karen Henley's stuff. Karen Henley's first grade takes you through the old testament and her 2nd grade takes you through the new testament. She's got materials beyond that as well by grade level. Grapevine starts with old testament and then you do new testament so it works well together.