Osmosis Mom Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Advice welcome! Ds 13 is the biggest slacker and what not. He has been playing soccer since age 4 and this has been and is an integral (big) part of all our fmaily's life. He is a very good (but not great) player, not running at home or doing work-out in between practices. He is on a competitive team btw, but not in the most competitive group (much to our disappointment). He loves, loves soccer, but once told me last year that what he loves is people cheering on him as he is scoring (he does score or attempts to do so a lot). But even in his favorite activity he is not giving 100%. Always holding back, not pushing himself, only saying how great he is compared to the other (more slacker boys who can't do proper push-ups etc.). I was myself very competitive so it blows my mind how he just is satisfied with being OK, but not great. Unless he really just plays for the special attention he gets. His school-work and attitude about it is hideous at best. He rarely cares about timelines; couldn't care less. He never works on his own and always pretends he doesn't care (while in fact he actually likes the work when he does it). He works extremely slowly, probably perfectionistic although his work usually has a few mistakes. Right now he won't take advise from me so it's pretty much sink or float (or sink!). He also seems to really be jealous of his 18 month older sister. When she is away on a sleep-over then he is like a different child. She does not necessarily cause any conflict herself; it seems to be her mere presence that off-sets him. I am not sure how much is hormonal and how much is hidden depression and what-not. About soccer and school, then I tell him no soccer of no proper attitude etc. He just wants to call my bluff since he really has to go to soccer if he is in onthe team. Last year and the year before I did keep him home a few times; it caused him to feel really depressed and go into a shell plus it was not a good thing in front of the coach. Now he says, well, so you won't send me to soccer, whatever, knwoing full well that I will send him. He actually said to me that since we pay so much money sure, we'd send him. I keep thinking if I should not enroll him in soccer next year plus I am considering having him re-do 9th grade. He just has zero motivation and takes things for granted. Thing is he might really get depressed of I pull him plus how can he get back into the game since soccer at this age and level is pretty competitive and you need to keep up. Any advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicksMama-Zack's Mama Too Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 You could be describing my oldest. I noticed that you used the term "depressed" a lot in your post. I would suggest to you that you change it to "disappointed"... Describing your son as depressed suggest that the consequences of his behavior are too much for him to handle. KWIM? I would acknowledge his disappointment in dealing with his consequences (btw, soccer would be a no go - he's calling your bluff and has you figured out) and explain to him that he chose them. It's better to learn that now then deal with a semi-adult who has to face disappointment in the future for the first time. His boss isn't going to worry about his feelings, his professor isn't going to worry about his feelings, and you need to stop worrying about his feelings and let him deal with his choices. I know this is hard as I am dealing with the same sort of kid. I want to be the first hard-a$$ he comes across, rather than it be someone else because I love him and he needs it to grow into a man. hth, K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I'm off to co-op in a few minutes, so I will copy and paste from the thread below. And, add a few thoughts. I see very similar behavior in my 13yo son and always have. I call him (to myself) bright, but lazy. He is not self-motivated at all. He loves sports and is a natural athlete, but would rather be the star of the rec league than work hard to be better than average on a competitive team. If he is not interested in working hard in an area he loves and is gifted in, is there any hope for him working hard in any other area? I flip flop between thinking this is a character flaw and thinking that it's just a character trait. Not every one is a go-getter. I am very self-disciplined, but ds is not so different from dh. I think my job is to prepare ds to meet his potential should he ever desire to reach for it. In the book, Teen Proofing, it says there are 3 things that contribute to the making of a child: 1. innate personality 2. parenting 3. extended family and peers I only have control over and can change #2. This helped me get some perspective. If you think his behavior might have to do with depression, explore that possibility. Otherwise, hard, physical labor is a great consequence for behavior problems. Weeding, raking, moving large stones from one side of the yard to the other. I would use that instead of losing soccer priveledges (sp?). I don't feel good about punishing the team. My 13yo is only in 7th grade. How can yours be in 9th? Sorry for the scattered response. I'm off to co-op now. I need help regarding my son and thinking :grouphug: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Interesing responses. I need to think them over and look at the link as well. Disappointed vs. depression....We have the latter in our family so I have been walking many fine lines with especially this kid, fearing he is prone to this. I have not taken him to the doctor for this and won't anytime soon since I do not have a doctor I trust and know enough (we moved many years go and have since then changed doctor several times due to different issues). Yes, it is so true that he'd rather be a star on a mediocre team than work hard on the tough team. That is putting it very bluntly, something I haven't done before. And that stums me. The whole reason why he is on this highly competitive and expensive team was so he could be with like-minded peers and get a good coaching (he was being bullied for being a great player on the town-teams which was obviously affecting his play). He is a very athletic child, but certainly has other gifts as well. He does now yet know all his interests. He is a quiet child and I have to make sure he doesn't retreat into his shell. Punishment that'd work for any of my other children won't for him due to this pulling-back thing that he does, on and off. Thus, I am always treating him slightly differently. But I am certainly a toughie, however, I listen to him more than I did with my oldest dd (if he speaks or has an opinion). He is in 9th grade because well, he is capable, but certainly not emotionally ready. It is like he still wants to be a child and irresponsible, not having to think about his future. The biggest motivator I have for him in regards to college (and thus applying yourself to high school) is that he can play on a great soccer team there. Plus he is seeing all the perks of his oldest sister at college (laptop, work, own money etc.). I just see that he jealousy of his other sister age 15 is all-consuming and keeps him from working hard. How is this parallel to his soccer-effort? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie-Knits Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 (edited) I would like to suggest a book called "The Myth of Laziness" by Mel Levine. It made me ponder issues I was having with my 14 yr old ds. http://www.allkindsofminds.org/Excerpt.aspx?productid=2 Edited February 19, 2009 by Susie-Knits flying fingers along with slow mind! haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brenda in MA Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 He is in 9th grade because well, he is capable, but certainly not emotionally ready. It is like he still wants to be a child and irresponsible, not having to think about his future. The biggest motivator I have for him in regards to college (and thus applying yourself to high school) is that he can play on a great soccer team there. Plus he is seeing all the perks of his oldest sister at college (laptop, work, own money etc.). I just see that he jealousy of his other sister age 15 is all-consuming and keeps him from working hard. How is this parallel to his soccer-effort? Nadia, Given what you've said, I'd definitely consider having him repeat the 9th grade, just for maturity. My bright, but not so motivated boy has shown pretty big improvements in motivation in the last couple of years. He is now 17.5 yo. Also, if motivation in academics is a big concern, you might consider an outside or on-line course to help him be more motivated. If the instructor is male, all the better. I've also seem my son's motivation improve when he needs to meet deadlines for someone else. He will also work harder to get a good grade when there are classmates involved. How involved is his dad with this son's work? With my own boys, I've really seen that when they hit the teen years, they really need male role models in all areas. He has some in soccer, but are there any for academics? Is he able to spend some one on one time with his dad on a regular basis? I can definitely understand your perspective, though. I'm also pretty driven, and it is hard for us "driven" folks to understand those that are not so competitive and motivated. HTH, Brenda Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunshine State Sue Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 He is in 9th grade because well, he is capable, but certainly not emotionally ready. It is like he still wants to be a child and irresponsible, not having to think about his future. I can't wrap my brain around a 13yo who is working a year or two ahead of grade level being a slacker. :confused: I just see that he jealousy of his other sister age 15 is all-consuming and keeps him from working hard. How is this parallel to his soccer-effort? Not parallel. They are separate issues. I can't help you with the jealousy thing because I've got an only child. I grew up 6th in a family of 8 though. I was definitely jealous of my younger sister. Things definitely got better once I didn't have to live with her, though. I've heard good things about the book Siblings Without Rivalry, fwiw. I would like to suggest a book called "The Myth of Laziness" by Mel Levine. It made me ponder issues I was have with my 14 yr old ds.http://www.allkindsofminds.org/Excerpt.aspx?productid=2 Thank you. I just ordered the book from the library. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 I can't wrap my brain around a 13yo who is working a year or two ahead of grade level being a slacker. :confused: He began reading when he was 3 and things have always come easy to him. I have just moved him along. He does take outside classes and while he can perform in a timely manner then he chose the second round with his writing class to not do his assignments in a timely manner. When confronted he said it was my fault (for giving him a life with other activities, certainly leaving him with time aplenty for doing his outside class!!). But yes, he seems to think he can put blame on his mother a lot. His father is around all the time, but is somehow distant. Especially to this child whose personality is quiet, sort of secretive, I guess. In total contrast to his younger brother who is a talker and lets us all know how he is and hwat he needs. I know ds 13 misses a close relationship, but unless he approaches his dad right on, then his father won't realise what he needs. It is not love that is lacking, but how to show it. He does take ds to and fro soccer several times a week and watches his games, yet in the car dh has complained that ds is quiet as a clam. Again, as if soccer is his medium for reaching our attention??And to us, soccer is sort of our gift to him because he loves it, not because we see him as equal to soccer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ria Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 He began reading when he was 3 and things have always come easy to him. I have just moved him along. From what you say about your son's academics, he's not doing well. The question is, why isn't he doing well? Perhaps he's reached the point where he's on a par with his age-mates (ie, ready for 7th or 8th grade work) and just can't handle the pressure and intensity of dialectic-stage work. Just because a child starts off ahead of his peers does not mean that he'll always surge ahead. Yes, there are some very gifted kids who do, but it's not the norm. I'd consider rethinking the grade level and schoolwork...maybe he really needs something different to thrive. As for the soccer, his attitude would bother me (the "you won't do anything to me since you've paid" thing). He's not a soccer superstar, so I'd pull him out until he shapes up. If, indeed, he has signs of depression, he needs a doctor. Good luck, Nadia. Ria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moni Posted February 27, 2009 Share Posted February 27, 2009 I think some boys just don't care to excel... at anything we'd like them to excel at, that is... I don't see it as an issue though so . . . perhaps you can more clearly state your question? :seeya: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osmosis Mom Posted February 28, 2009 Author Share Posted February 28, 2009 I don't know that I had a specific question, just venting. Mulling his behaviour over I think some of his attitude has to do with sometimes feeling too lonely. He is a shy kid so he can't just befriend anyone, and thus he tends to get frustrated. He might appear manipulative from the outside, but I am not sure he really is. Underachievement is a complex issue. Having a highly critical, perfectionistic mother and father is also not always an advantage..! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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