New and need guidance

[angelart73]

Hello, I am considering a switch the TWTM curriculum and am not quite sure where to start. I am using a Charlotte Mason style curriculum right now, and what I like about it is that I can pretty much keep my kids together for History and literature. My kids are in 4th and 5th grades and we are in the Middle Ages for History this year. I realize that according the Classical Method, my 5th grader would be in the logic stage either this year, or next. Is that correct? If that is the case, would I need to begin splitting them up in our readings? Is there a way to follow TWTM and still keep my kids together. They are 1 grade apart but close to 2 years in age. My son is 11 and daughter is 9. They will be 10 and 12 this summer. I have the 1st edition of TWTM and see that there is new edition. What is new in this edition? Does the book lay out all of the books that I would be doing? Do we just jump in according to grade year? How does the catalog differ from the book in terms of the curriculum schedule given?

I hope that I was clear in my questioning. I guess my 2 main questions are: How do I jump in when we haven't used TWTM in the past, and is there a way to keep my kids together in History and Literature? Thanks so much for all of your help and suggestions.

 

Blessings,

Angela

[Guest]

You can still keep them together for whatever subjects you wish. CM and WTM are very compatible. What are you wanting to incorporate from WTM? What have you been doing as far as content areas? Grammar and the like?

[Melis]

Good Morning and WELCOME :)

 

I would love to try and assist you!

 

Hello, I am considering a switch the TWTM curriculum and am not quite sure where to start.

I would begin right where they are in terms of readiness and skill. What I love about TWTM is that it is a very thorough, yet gentle, approach to learning.

I am using a Charlotte Mason style curriculum right now, and what I like about it is that I can pretty much keep my kids together for History and literature. My kids are in 4th and 5th grades and we are in the Middle Ages for History this year. I realize that according the Classical Method, my 5th grader would be in the logic stage either this year, or next. Is that correct? If that is the case, would I need to begin splitting them up in our readings? Is there a way to follow TWTM and still keep my kids together. They are 1 grade apart but close to 2 years in age. My son is 11 and daughter is 9. They will be 10 and 12 this summer.

I feel that the stages should be used as a guideline, but that there are no hard and fast rules when it comes to *your* child. I look at the stages as a way of understanding where my child *may* be in terms of learning/observing the material, but I don't feel it's necessary to follow it to a "T". (I hope that made sense) But this is just my opinion ;) So with that in mind, I have no problem doing certain subjects together and keeping the assignments the same. We do Story of the World, Sonlight Science, Sonlight's American History I and Highlight's "Which Way USA" and "Top Secret" together. I find that most of these subjects are interactive in terms of learning. Not a whole lot of writing here and that's the way I want it ;) I'll share what we do for literature in your question below :)

I have the 1st edition of TWTM and see that there is new edition. What is new in this edition? Does the book lay out all of the books that I would be doing? Do we just jump in according to grade year? How does the catalog differ from the book in terms of the curriculum schedule given?

I hope that I was clear in my questioning.

I'm probably not the best one for giving guidance on this as I purchased TWTM (I think it's the second edition), took what I needed to get started and haven't really looked back! LOL I love TWTM... it was instrumental in getting me started, but it helped me SO MUCH that I haven't had the need to reference it up until this point. I DO have a 5th grader so it's on my list of things to review at some point this year ;) I believe one of the main differences in the revisions is the update of books choices. SB and her mom have come out with new books and have revised many old. Some of the curriculum they used to recommend as the first choice may have been moved to second choice, and some books may even be out of print.

I guess my 2 main questions are: How do I jump in when we haven't used TWTM in the past, I would look at where you are, where the book suggests you would be and pick somewhere in the middle. I might even begin in the grammar stage for BOTH...see how they do... and then make the necessary changes.

 

and is there a way to keep my kids together in History and Literature?

I find history is very easy to do together... mine are two years apart and it's been no problem. As for literature, I think it depends on your children's learning styles. Being a grade apart, it would seem easy to keep them together, but you mentioned they are two years apart and I notice one is a girl and one is boy. My boys are two years apart and they have different learning styles. They are very similar in that learning comes easy to them, but they are definitely not at the same level of "readiness". I find it's best to tailor my assignments to fit the latter.

 

Thanks so much for all of your help and suggestions.

 

Blessings,

Angela

 

As I was responding to your questions, I realized I may be using TWTM differently than you plan to. We are more textbook based in terms of written work. I used TWTM's FLL, WWE and SOTW. Pretty much all of their writing comes from WWE. Our history and literature consists of read-alouds, independent reading (they read the same books) and lots of discussion and interaction, which we do together.

 

I would say this is the beauty of homeschooling in action. That we can take all these great resources and tailor them to fit our individual needs. I don't feel like I've been as much help as I thought I could be, but I'll post this anyhow! I'm sure there are plenty of WTM'ers with CM backgrounds that can offer better guidance :)

 

Again, welcome and happy schooling!

Edited November 3, 2011 by Melis
spell check!

[morosophe]

Hello, I am considering a switch the TWTM curriculum and am not quite sure where to start....

 

I guess my 2 main questions are: How do I jump in when we haven't used TWTM in the past, and is there a way to keep my kids together in History and Literature? Thanks so much for all of your help and suggestions.

 

Blessings,

Angela

 

If you don't mind paying for a history-through-literature curriculum, there are several programs available that use the Well-Trained Mind as a platform and give specific instructions for each stage and cycle. A secular option, for instance, is History Odyssey from Pandia Press. This one breaks it up by cycle year and stage, meaning that you might have to buy two for your first cycle year, to cover your two possible learning stages, logic and rhetoric. There are free samples available of this program. (Although I've never checked them out, as I am not interested in a secular program, I have done some of Pandia's R.E.A.L. Science Odyssey free samples with my son. Those were pretty hefty chunks of the program--a good quarter of a year or so. It was enough to let me know that the program didn't really fit our needs, at least.)

 

Another (very popular) option, this time Christian, is Tapestry of Grace from Lampstand Press. This one breaks the cycle up by year, but includes all the stages for each year. If you get the online version, it gives you free updates for books that are out of print. It also offers a free sample of the first three weeks of the first year, which gives you more of a sense of how it works. Since ToG seems to have a very, very steep learning cycle, I would definitely recommend checking out the free sample before buying wholesale, particularly since it's a hefty $170.00 (for the digital edition) a year, although you can buy the four units that make up a year separately. (They're even more expensive that way, added up.) However, since each year covers all the ages from elementary to high school, you can lower the cost you paid per year if you stick with Tapestry of Grace for more than one four-year cycle. It's still way too much for me, though.

 

Which is why Biblioplan appeals to me. While the total price can still add up quickly, Biblioplan splits its program up into pieces, so you only buy what interests you. If you don't want coloring pages, maps, etc., you can still get the core of the program, the Guide, for less than $30.00 a year for the e-book (less than $40.00 for the print). Even if you get the "bundles" for a specific age group, they're less than $90.00 a year (as opposed to ToG's $170.00, for instance). Like Tapestry of Grace, however, the Guide and Teacher's Companion are meant to cover all three stages. And it's easy to switch between levels--if you decide to do logic stage one week and rhetoric the next, that's fine. If you alternate logic and rhetoric for a few months, that's fine, too. (ToG is probably like that, too, but that program just confuses me.) Plus, Biblioplan gives free updates to resources you purchase from them (but not when you buy used, obviously). The downside to Biblioplan is that their literature selections are apparently sometimes controversial, and much more often hard to find.

 

Unfortunately, while the new Well-Trained Mind does offer quite a few book lists, they aren't comprehensive enough to plan all your schooling around. The Story of the World's AGs may help some, but it sounds like your kids are aging out of the target range. Another possibility, if you just hate paying curriculum developers, is to look at the scopes and sequences of some of the above programs (or whatever you can find) and try to do the work yourself of developing a schedule and finding good literature to flesh it out. If you do that, may I recommend a resource? Christine Miller has compiled All Through the Ages, a bibliography culled from popular homeschooling catalogs and elsewhere, and separated them out by reading level and historical period (and/or geographical area). Annotations are included, which sometimes give appraisals of a book, sometimes inform about reasons the book may be contraindicated (such as evolutionary content or level of violence), and sometimes merely indicate what the book is about. I bought the e-book of this for $20.00, and have been very impressed so far. (I am planning to use it to make up for shortcomings of Biblioplan I listed above.)

 

I hope this little tour of resources available to help you out is helpful and not just long-winded.

 

Happy homeschooling!

[angelart73]

Melis,

Thanks, and you response was very helpful. You got me thinking, so let me tell you a bit more about what we are doing. For History, we are reading A Child's History of the World, Our Island Story, and American History is This Country of Ours. Geography is Marco Polo. We are also reading a biography on Da Vinci, The Story of Inventions, Pilgrims Progress, Heroes for Greek Mythology, Trial and Triumph for early Christian heroes, and Shakespeare for Children. Now, we don't get to all of that every week. I am feeling a bit overwhelmed since I am having to read all of this aloud. My 11 year ds has dyslexia, and my 9 year old dd is not a very independent reader yet, aside from books like Magic Tree House, etc... Truth be told, I think I feel like I am failing since I can't get to all of this, and I fumble through, deciding what to read from day to day, not wanting to create any gaps in learning. It has become more of a job than enjoyment for me. This was not always the case. The books are great, I think it is maybe just too much? Especially since I am reading it all to them. And, mostly my daughter is loosing her enjoyment in listening to each story, knowing that she has to narrate. It's harder for her as she is a visual learner. My son is a great narrator as he is an auditory learner.

Ok, now where am I? Do I re-vamp everything? Do I just take some books out, and if so, which ones? What is the most important? Oh, and another thing. I feel terrible that we have not been doing any biblical studies. I miss having biblical history as part of our history readings. The CM curriculum I follow does not have history selections that are from a biblical history perspective. CM had the children reading right from the word each day. That is great, but I still miss the intertwining of God's story into what we are reading. I know that The Mystery of History does this, but not sure what other books I could use that would do the same. One last piece is that we are using Easy Grammar for grammar and nothing for writing. I guess I am not sure if I should add a writing piece or change to something that teachers grammar and writing together? Grammar is easy for my 9 year old dd, not quite as easy for my 11 year old ds (dyslexia).

Now that I have rambled, do you have any other thoughts? Thanks so much!

Edited November 3, 2011 by angelart73
forgot to add another thing.

[morosophe]

And, whoops! I forgot about this completely free (albeit secular) approach: Classical House of Learning. Unfortunately, it only covers the first two cycle years in logic stage, and nothing in rhetoric.

[TKDmom]

Hello, I am considering a switch the TWTM curriculum and am not quite sure where to start. I am using a Charlotte Mason style curriculum right now, and what I like about it is that I can pretty much keep my kids together for History and literature. My kids are in 4th and 5th grades and we are in the Middle Ages for History this year. I realize that according the Classical Method, my 5th grader would be in the logic stage either this year, or next. Is that correct? If that is the case, would I need to begin splitting them up in our readings?

 

The different stages in WTM refer more to a child's developing ability to think critically than to specific reading assignments. You can easily keep your children together for readings. If they were 4 years apart, it would be more difficult, but at two years and 1 grade apart, you can keep them together for all your content subjects (history, literature, science, art, etc). Skill subjects (Math, writing, grammar, etc.) would need to be done individually at your child's level.

 

Is there a way to follow TWTM and still keep my kids together. They are 1 grade apart but close to 2 years in age. My son is 11 and daughter is 9. They will be 10 and 12 this summer. I have the 1st edition of TWTM and see that there is new edition. What is new in this edition? Does the book lay out all of the books that I would be doing? Do we just jump in according to grade year? How does the catalog differ from the book in terms of the curriculum schedule given?

The newest edition of TWTM has updated curriculum suggestions. Some of the books from the 1st edition have gone out of print, and SWB has written some of her own curriculum for history, grammar, and writing that she now recommends. Overall, the method is the same. I own both the 1st and 3rd editions of TWTM (and I first read it when I borrowed the 2nd Ed. from the library :lol:). I think you will be fine using the 1st edition as a guide, then reading these boards to find specific curricula that will work for your family.

 

I hope that I was clear in my questioning. I guess my 2 main questions are: How do I jump in when we haven't used TWTM in the past, and is there a way to keep my kids together in History and Literature? Thanks so much for all of your help and suggestions.

I just saw that you have posted some of your current curricula, so I'm going to post my opinions of where to start below.

 

Melis, For History, we are reading A Child's History of the World, Our Island Story, and American History is This Country of Ours. Geography is Marco Polo. We are also reading a biography on Da Vinci, The Story of Inventions, Pilgrims Progress, Heroes for Greek Mythology, Trial and Triumph for early Christian heroes, and Shakespeare for Children.

 

<snipped>

 

Ok, now where am I? Do I re-vamp everything? Do I just take some books out, and if so, which ones? What is the most important?

 

I would keep going with some of the books that you're already using. I've used CHOW, and I'd probably keep going with that. Maybe you could drop American History for now (come back to it when you get to that point in World History). I'd also drop Our Island Story. British history isn't a priority for me. I do geography as we encounter it in history. So when we read about the people who lived on the Yellow River, we find the Yellow river on a map. So I'd probably drop the geography as well.

 

History makes a great scaffolding for studying literature. You don't have to tie them together, but if you do, it helps you to decide what literature to study. Do you feel like any of your read-alouds tie in with the history time period that you are studying? I'd keep those that tie in with history and put aside the others for later. My favorite literature program is Classical House of Learning. It's free, and you can choose which level to use based on your children's reading abilities. It sounds like the Middle Ages book list for the grammar stage would fit your kids right now.

 

Oh, and another thing. I feel terrible that we have not been doing any biblical studies. I miss having biblical history as part of our history readings. The CM curriculum I follow does not have history selections that are from a biblical history perspective. CM had the children reading right from the word each day. That is great, but I still miss the intertwining of God's story into what we are reading. I know that The Mystery of History does this, but not sure what other books I could use that would do the same.

I don't intertwine the Bible and history, so I'm not any help there. But I would suggest that you hold off on completely changing the history you are using. You will probably be making lots of changes right now. If you stick with CHOW and wait until next year to switch history programs, that might give you some continuity, so that your head doesn't spin too quickly with all the changes you are using.

 

One last piece is that we are using Easy Grammar for grammar and nothing for writing. I guess I am not sure if I should add a writing piece or change to something that teachers grammar and writing together? Grammar is easy for my 9 year old dd, not quite as easy for my 11 year old ds (dyslexia).

Now that I have rambled, do you have any other thoughts? Thanks so much!

Start a writing program. Writing is a skill that takes years to develop, so the sooner you start, the better. Get a copy of Writing with Ease, read through the introductory pages, and then do the year-end evaluations with your dc, starting with year 1, to see where to start them out in writing. Once you place your dc, you could buy the WWE workbooks, which include a full year of scripted writing instruction. But sometimes older children will catch on at a faster rate and they won't need a full year at each level.

 

I'd also make sure your kids have a good phonics base. I don't have any experience with dyslexia, so hopefully someone else can chime in with advice for you there, but it sounds like you dd, at least, would benefit from some good phonics to get her off the ground with reading. I love Phonics Road, but that's probably overkill for a 9yo. ElizabethB has a phonics page with videos for teaching children. I used it this summer for remediating a 6th grader that I was tutoring. I'll see if I can dig up that link for you.

 

ETA: Here it is The Phonics Page

Edited November 3, 2011 by bonniebeth4

[angelart73]

bonniebeth and morosophe, Thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions.

I will look into all of the resources you mentioned. Some of them I am familiar with, but it has been some time since I've looked at them thoroughly.

Another question I have is; I read in TWTM that we should be using the Kingfisher World History book and making a History notebook consisting of what we read about each week. Does this take the place of written narrations from our history readings? What does the classical method say about doing written narrations? We have not yet gotten there, but I do write out my kids narrations from time to time. Should I also be keeping the history notebook?

Thanks!

[TKDmom]

bonniebeth and morosophe, Thanks so much for your thoughts and suggestions.

I will look into all of the resources you mentioned. Some of them I am familiar with, but it has been some time since I've looked at them thoroughly.

Another question I have is; I read in TWTM that we should be using the Kingfisher World History book and making a History notebook consisting of what we read about each week. Does this take the place of written narrations from our history readings? What does the classical method say about doing written narrations? We have not yet gotten there, but I do write out my kids narrations from time to time. Should I also be keeping the history notebook?

Thanks!

 

I write down my younger kids' narrations for history, and I file them away in a history section of the binder I keep all their schoolwork in. I no longer write down my 5th grader's narrations, but I would if she didn't have plenty of other written work for her portfolio. With her, I just discuss what she has read. She also outlines the Kingfisher book once a week. We moved on to outlining when I was satisfied that she could pick out the main point of a narrative and summarize it for me in her narrations. If you decide to add the Kingfisher book recommended in the 1st ed. of TWTM, it's out of print, but you can still find it used. This is it. Later editions of the Kingfisher History Encyclopedia haven't been as readable as this one is.

 

If you decide to go with WWE for writing, it will also have your children narrating twice a week, along with doing copywork and/or dictation. By the end of WWE 4, they should be able to write their own narrations without difficulty.