Biblical worldview? Ugh. MFW or SoTW with WVWW?

[home4school]

So, I fessed up in another thread that for my dear non-academic boys, I was torn between MFW for hs and just using SoTW. One thing I strongly want is a Biblical worldview. Since SoTW doesn't even start at the beginning of history, biblically, I was looking for something to bring that in. Stumbled upon Quine's WVWW. Love what it accomplishes, but I'm afraid it would just be plain out, too tough for us.

 

Opinions? I've read a lot of past reviews here and it appears to be very rigorous.

 

Help.me.please.

 

Why couldn't dear SWB have done SOTW with a Biblical worldview? My life would be sooo much easier!:tongue_smilie:

[ilovemy4kids]

MFW does incorporate worldview all throughout the high school years. The actual "worlview course" is used in the 11th grade. They use "Thinking Like a Christian".

 

We've been very happy thus far with MFW for high school.

 

Sandra

[Melissa in CA]

I haven't used MFW yet (am going to next year), but I personally think for what you are wanting, I would go with MFW AHL. Why reinvent the wheel. ;)

[ilovemy4kids]

for what you are wanting, I would go with MFW AHL. Why reinvent the wheel. ;)

:iagree:

[home4school]

Well, that's true. I was just afraid of MFW being too hard for them. But after looking at WVWW, that was rigorous!

 

We've never used SOTW and I really would like to include it for hs, but there again, I really want the worldview. UGH.

 

Perhaps I could replace some of the Notgrass readings w/ SOTW? Or add in addition to?

[ilovemy4kids]

Well, that's true. I was just afraid of MFW being too hard for them. But after looking at WVWW, that was rigorous!

 

We've never used SOTW and I really would like to include it for hs, but there again, I really want the worldview. UGH.

 

Perhaps I could replace some of the Notgrass readings w/ SOTW? Or add in addition to?

 

I would definately, NOT leave out any of the Notgrass material. It is integral to the program.

 

WVWW is really, really, really, alot in my opinion. For SOTW, honestly, I'd get the audios and listen to it for family time, or in the car.... I'd listen to volume 1 over the summer....It will provide a nice little bit to build on when the start MFW AHL....

 

We used SOTW in the younger years, but we did listen to volume 1 again over the summer before Ronnie started AHL. We will listen to Volume 2 this summer. They are just plain nice to read and or listen to.

 

I think you will find MFW to be a good fit.

 

Blessings

 

Sandra

Edited March 24, 2011 by ilovemy4kids
forgot a thought

[home4school]

I would definately, NOT leave out any of the Notgrass material. It is integral to the program.

 

 

Is it as boring and dry as the online sample seems? I just don't want to lose their interest, KWIM?

[ilovemy4kids]

Nope, my son doesn't find it too painful.... It's hard to get a feel for it from the samples.... When you are doing it with MFW there is so much more... you are using other books too, which help "bring Notgrass to life" . It's really not that bad, You may be surprised. My son say's the only time it's really boring is when you read the book of the bible, then the notgrass tells the same thing over again. When I asked him if he'd learn as much if he didn't do the Notgrass and used SOTW instead, he said, "NO WAY! Notgrass teaches you alot more...." I'd honestly try to find someone who has AHL that you could look at... You aren't in near Kansas city are you? I'd be happy to let you come see ours!

 

 

Seriously though, if you really want to do SOTW, just add it in for fun time..... We eat popcorn, knit, draw, drive, bake, etc... while listening to it....

 

We've been through volume 1 four times, volume 2 four times, volume 3 twice, and volume 4 once. They are nice refreshers...

[home4school]

Your son sounds like a good student! I will certainly look MFW over at the expo. Theoretically, its what I want and what we need. Putting it into practice, that's another matter.

 

As far as reading SOTW for fun, umm, nope. Books do not equal fun to these boys here!

 

I wish I was near Kansas, but I'm wayyyy over here in Georgia. :(

 

Are you going to use MFW WHL next year?

[ilovemy4kids]

Your son sounds like a good student! I will certainly look MFW over at the expo. Theoretically, its what I want and what we need. Putting it into practice, that's another matter.

 

As far as reading SOTW for fun, umm, nope. Books do not equal fun to these boys here!

 

I wish I was near Kansas, but I'm wayyyy over here in Georgia. :(

 

Are you going to use MFW WHL next year?

 

Have you listened to the SOTW audio's they are great and it doesn't seem like school that way... Ronnie builds things, breaks things, wires things etc... when we listen to them....

 

Our WHL box got here about a week ago!!

 

I have 1 Georgia Peach! She was born in Gainesville or Dothan....wow, that's sad that I don't remember.....It was Flowers hospital...that much I remember.... :tongue_smilie:

[Melissa in CA]

Seriously though, if you really want to do SOTW, just add it in for fun time..... We eat popcorn, knit, draw, drive, bake, etc... while listening to it....

 

We've been through volume 1 four times, volume 2 four times, volume 3 twice, and volume 4 once. They are nice refreshers...

 

I TOTALLY agree! (The "I agree" smilie wasn't emphatic enough for me! Ha!)

 

There is absolutely no reason why you couldn't have your boys listen to them. I would even force the issue if needs be. Say to them, "With lunch every day we are going to listen to a couple chapters from SOTW. Period." ;) I think after some grumbling they would get accustomed to it and begin to enjoy it. Make a game of it, get them to compete to see who can answer the most questions, or give the best narration of the chapter, then reward the winner with a snack size candy bar or two. Whatever. It doesn't HAVE to be torture, learning can be fun. :D

 

I haven't read your other thread on WHY you so badly want to use SOTW for high school history, but I have to tell you *I* personally don't think they are high school level material. Are they interesting? Sure. Do people use them in High school? Yep! I was one of those people. ;) It wasn't until after using them that I regretted doing so. Oh, I think they are wonderful for elementary and even Jr. high, but not high school. That's just my opinion though. Also you are NOT going to find the Christian Worldview you are wanting to find. Seriously. I was very disappointed in that regard.

 

If MFW seems too daunting, you could always go with a traditional textbook. My ds loves BJU's history with activity guides. In fact it's because of his love for them that I looked into MFW for highschool.

 

{ETA OK, I just read your other thread and see that your boys will be in 7th and 9th. I would have to agree with others who suggest SL. I started my older boys in SL at that age with Core 6...they were non readers and I wanted to intro them slowly into SL. They did well. They didn't hold onto much of the SOTW info though as there wasn't anything to really cause them to put it to memory. Just a lot of reading. SL is a lot of reading. Have you thought about using one of the lower MFW programs instead of the high school? Just a thought.}

Edited March 24, 2011 by Melissa in CA

[home4school]

The SOTW cds sounds like a great investment.

 

Melissa, did you just suggest SonLight to me? Another program to ponder, look at samples, search for reviews endlessly on the computer? You didn't just do that, did you?:tongue_smilie:

 

I have pondered a lower level of MFW, but I need to keep my up-and-coming 9th grader on track, don't I? I definately want to hit Ancients, World, and the way MFW sets up the last two years to coincide with all that gov't, economics stuff looks good to me. If I don't start ds1 in AHL in the fall, he'll be all messed up, won't he?

 

I get sooooo jumping around expo time.

[Melissa in CA]

The SOTW cds sounds like a great investment.

 

Melissa, did you just suggest SonLight to me? Another program to ponder, look at samples, search for reviews endlessly on the computer? You didn't just do that, did you?:tongue_smilie:

 

I have pondered a lower level of MFW, but I need to keep my up-and-coming 9th grader on track, don't I? I definitely want to hit Ancients, World, and the way MFW sets up the last two years to coincide with all that gov't, economics stuff looks good to me. If I don't start ds1 in AHL in the fall, he'll be all messed up, won't he?

 

I get sooooo jumping around expo time.

 

Well, I think this is what *I* would do...

 

I would put my 9th grader in MFW AHL, get him started in his highschool cycle. It's an independent program, or at least that's the way it is made to be used, and I believe 9th-12th is time for the student to start 'owning' his education. No more hand-holding....or very little.

 

With my 7th grader, just to keep us sane and basically studying the same stuff that year. I would use BJU's Heritage Studies 6 or 7 (which is ancient civilizations and cultures) along with the corresponding student worktext.

 

Then in 10th I would put son #1 in MFW World History and son #2 in BJU's 8th grade American Republic (give him some American history before jumping into MFW Ancients).

 

In 11th, son #1 in MFW US1, and 9th grader son #2 in MFW AHL

 

and so on...

 

I know it's nice to have them studying the same time period, but honestly when they get in highschool it's just easier to have them doing their own thing...or so I found that to be the case. ;)

 

I've also found most boys, who don't enjoy reading stories/books, to enjoy the succinct info in BJU's history books. They are interesting, but not overly long and tedious. Natural readers seem to find them dull, or dry. It's really a matter of how your particular children learn. I personally don't like textbooks for history and forced whole books on my boys...they, on the other hand, like textbooks. My youngest loves BJU's texts. I don't prefer them, but I'm not the one studying with them, so my bias shouldn't count, and they (BJU history texts) definitely get the job done. So in reality, it's a win-win. :tongue_smilie:

 

By the way, I don't NOT like SL's highschool level cores. I couldn't sell Core 400 fast enough. Ack. I just saw others recommending Cores 6 and 7 and consider that a possibility...Core 6 was probably our fav, with Core 100 coming in 2nd. But if you KNOW you want to use MFWs progression through highschool, then use MFW...otherwise, you're right, he'll be all messed up.

[MomtoMERLD]

I am new at this and saw some posts. What is the difference between SonLight and My Father's World? I have the catalogs and they seem similar except there is more reading with SL. Which is your preference and why? Have you tried both?

[home4school]

:bigear:

[ilovemy4kids]

Well, I think this is what *I* would do...

 

I would put my 9th grader in MFW AHL, get him started in his highschool cycle. It's an independent program, or at least that's the way it is made to be used, and I believe 9th-12th is time for the student to start 'owning' his education. No more hand-holding....or very little.

 

With my 7th grader, just to keep us sane and basically studying the same stuff that year. I would use BJU's Heritage Studies 6 or 7 (which is ancient civilizations and cultures) along with the corresponding student worktext.

 

Then in 10th I would put son #1 in MFW World History and son #2 in BJU's 8th grade American Republic (give him some American history before jumping into MFW Ancients).

 

In 11th, son #1 in MFW US1, and 9th grader son #2 in MFW AHL

 

and so on...

 

I know it's nice to have them studying the same time period, but honestly when they get in highschool it's just easier to have them doing their own thing...or so I found that to be the case. ;)

 

I've also found most boys, who don't enjoy reading stories/books, to enjoy the succinct info in BJU's history books. They are interesting, but not overly long and tedious. Natural readers seem to find them dull, or dry. It's really a matter of how your particular children learn. I personally don't like textbooks for history and forced whole books on my boys...they, on the other hand, like textbooks. My youngest loves BJU's texts. I don't prefer them, but I'm not the one studying with them, so my bias shouldn't count, and they (BJU history texts) definitely get the job done. So in reality, it's a win-win. :tongue_smilie:

 

By the way, I don't NOT like SL's highschool level cores. I couldn't sell Core 400 fast enough. Ack. I just saw others recommending Cores 6 and 7 and consider that a possibility...Core 6 was probably our fav, with Core 100 coming in 2nd. But if you KNOW you want to use MFWs progression through highschool, then use MFW...otherwise, you're right, he'll be all messed up.

:iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree::iagree:

 

I didn't realize you were putting both boys into MFW AHL..... I wouldn't put a 7th into AHL....As much as my dd wanted to do it in 8th....we said no. Academically she could do it, but the spiritual maturity and growth is immense in the AHL year and we felt it best to wait till 9th grade. I think the plan outlined above sound very good....I'd do the BJU route personally for the younger son.

Sandra

[ilovemy4kids]

Another thought....

 

AHL with the older one and ECC with the younger one. My son did ECC in 7th and he really, really enjoyed it. He can still name about every country in the world and many of the capitals.... Yes he really learn almost all of them! We added in every little country ....even ones that weren't in the manual!

[Brindee]

As far as reading SOTW for fun, umm, nope. Books do not equal fun to these boys here!

 

I'm afraid any history program, including MFW, has a lot of reading. MFW varies the sources, so it does keep it interesting, but if they're not wanting to read, it could change the successfulness of the program.

 

As much as I hate to say this, since we love MFW so much, if they really don't want to read much, maybe SOTW with the cd's to listen to would be better? There are books with cd's on Worldview that you could incorporate into the program....

 

AHL is a beautiful intro. to the rigors of high school! However, my dd loves reading and comparing the different things they do. The lesson plans are all laid out, so it's not hard, as long as they keep with the reading.

 

So, that may be something you'd need to include in your thinking as you're deciding what to use for sure.

 

I still think it's good if you share in the readings with them, maybe, or encourage them in the fact that high school will require a lot more reading. My dd has found most of it enjoyable. Some of it gets long/kind of boring, but over all it's pretty interesting, and putting it all together makes for a fuller and deeper knowledge that prepares them for the next year very well!

 

Just some food for thought, cuz I wouldn't want you to get it, then be overwhelmed!

 

ETA: Oh, I missed some of the posts. I agree with the others NOT to put your 7th grader in AHL!

Edited March 25, 2011 by Brindee

[home4school]

My initial thoughts without having MFW in my hand was to ease up on my 7th grader with it. Truthfully, my oldest is no where near working this program independently. I was hoping 9th for him would be a year building to that, but honestly, I see myself doing a lot of reading aloud still and us working together. I thought my 7th grader could "tag along", then when older graduates, he would be able to cycle back thru MFW again, but he would be doing AHL and WHL in 11th and 12th.

 

I've got the other thread going as well about using SOTW. How can I keep them together, but stretch the older and get him what he needs for hs credits?

 

Also, I'm looking forward to doing MFW myself as I have learned sooo much hsing these boys. I didn't have this type of education, much less a Christian one, so I'm excited about what I will learn. I don't want to just oversee, I want to participate!;)

 

Maybe MFW isn't right, but I want a strong worldview and a writing help.

[Melissa in CA]

As I mentioned in another post, my olders were not independent learners, and they were NOT readers. I decided when they were in 8th and 10th that I wanted to change that. The only curriculum that used a lot of whole books at that time was Sonlight (we had been using all Abeka textbooks for years). I purchased SL Core 6 for them, and Core 1 for youngest ds. Core 6 was a good fit for them. Lots of reading, as well as read alouds scheduled. I don't want to throw another choice at you, but your boys sound like my olders. Here is what we did, and yep, I gave them high school credit. I did beef up Core 6 a bit with SOTW tests and MOH 1, but in hindsight, neither was needed:

 

8th/10th: Core 6 (we skipped Core 7...not sure why???)

9th/11th: Core 100

10th/12th: Core 400

11th: Core 300

(middle ds graduated early and began cc)

 

Both boys are doing wonderfully in college, so our history course did not hurt them one iota. My thought, if you REALLY want a whole books history, and you REALLY feel your boys need to stay together in their studies, is to go with SL. Perhaps something like this:

 

7th/9th: Core 6 (Ancients)

8th/10th: Core 7 (Middle)

9th/11th: Core 100 (US)

10th/12th: Government/econ (NOT Sonlight Core 400!!)

11th: Core 200 (Church history)

12th: Core 300 (21st Century World)

 

There is also Tapestry of Grace to consider (which is wonderful!), but it's a lot more work and not as open and go as Sonlight.

 

Just giving you possibilities. ;) I hope you get it figured out...I know how difficult it is to find that 'right' choice.

[home4school]

Thanks so much for the suggested plan!

 

Does SL incorporate a Biblical worldview? Do they include writing instruction? I have a catalog here, but I really didn't even think about SL until you mentioned it. I guess I can split my expo time between MFW and SL.

 

I ruled out TOG for me a long time ago.:lol: I drooled over it for several years. I love the idea behind it, but I want something more open and go. I'm also a hardcopy kind of girl. I like to hold things in my hand. I spend enough time on the computer as it is. I've been using Jen's history from GuestHollow and while she made it open and go, I've tweaked til I'm sick of tweaking. Books not at our library, bringing writing skills I feel we need to work on, etc.

 

I'll jump over to the SL site at lunch and poke around.

 

Thanks for trying to help me. I know they need to become more independent, but I really want to try to grow them as students, but more importantly to be good, Christian young men.

 

We have a neighbor family with one ds19 still finishing his senior year for the second time that can't even tell me the names of the classes he's taking, much less anything he's learning. They have another boy who's 16 that they've taken in. He's hsing himself online. Its just a thing he has to "get done" everyday. Neither have no interest whatsoever in learning anything. Just get done and go. Life is video games and dirtbike racing. That's what my boys see on a daily basis. I try to encourage the other boys in their schooling, but coming from me, its too little, too late.

 

The path we take probably won't be as academically rigorous as most here on this board. But, if I can keep them learning and growing and at least aimed toward some form of further education after hs, I'll be pleased. All the boys they're around just want to get out of school and get a job. Without some degree or some techincal training, I don't know what their futures could hold.

 

I love the service project Fridays in MFW. That's another goal for them I want to attain. To learn its not all about them. We're here for a greater purpose.

 

Thanks again!

[Brindee]

The path we take probably won't be as academically rigorous as most here on this board. But, if I can keep them learning and growing and at least aimed toward some form of further education after hs, I'll be pleased. All the boys they're around just want to get out of school and get a job. Without some degree or some techincal training, I don't know what their futures could hold.

 

I love the service project Fridays in MFW. That's another goal for them I want to attain. To learn its not all about them. We're here for a greater purpose.

 

The path you're taking is what is best for your boys. It doesn't have to be like anyone else's path. It can be more rigorous or less rigorous! You have an important goal, which is what I bolded above. THAT is what is important! Don't let what others are doing make you feel any less of a good homeschooling parent, because you're doing what you feel is most important and best for the overall welfare of your boys, including their hearts!

 

I agree, it's not all about academics, it's about where their hearts are, and being good, well-rounded adults, who know that we're here for a greater purpose! :001_smile: Great goal!!!

[Melissa in CA]

The path you're taking is what is best for your boys. It doesn't have to be like anyone else's path. It can be more rigorous or less rigorous! You have an important goal, which is what I bolded above. THAT is what is important! Don't let what others are doing make you feel any less of a good homeschooling parent, because you're doing what you feel is most important and best for the overall welfare of your boys, including their hearts!

 

I agree, it's not all about academics, it's about where their hearts are, and being good, well-rounded adults, who know that we're here for a greater purpose! :001_smile: Great goal!!!

 

:iagree:

 

Also, in regards to your questions about SL's writing, I'm not sure I can answer that. I'm pretty sure the writing has changed since I used it. When I used it, I didn't like it. It wasn't step by step enough for my non-writing boys. Instead, we used IEW Student Writing Intensive, Wordsmith, and Story Starters by Karen Andreola as the bulk of their highschool writing. And, again, they are doing fine in college. Are they great writers? Nope. But they didn't totally bomb the SAT writing either. They are average.

 

Yougest ds is far more academic. He's a 'thinker' who desires to go to a 4 yr university, so what I did for my older two, would not be adequate for him. He needs to be pushed more, and he desires to work independently. MFW should be a good fit for him.

 

And yes, SL does have a Christian Worldview. They are very mission minded. Be SURE you read their 27 reasons to not buy SL before you make any decision. SL is good, but it is different and not always what a parent wants for their child. Here it is: http://www.sonlight.com/not-to-buy.html

[Donna A.]

Some thoughts on MFW high school with a non-book lover:

 

-- Do audio books whenever possible. I know you can get Homer on CD for AHL, and probably some others, too.

 

-- Get an audio version of the Bible, or read it aloud together as a family instead of just having him do it on his own. In fact, MFW recommends the parent follow the Bible reading schedule along with the student. There's a check-off schedule in the back of the manual for Parent. It won't be so bad in year 2 reading the NT, but reading the OT can be daunting even for a good reader.

 

-- Writing instruction is step-by-step, so while your student may need some guidance (and our job at that level really is to guide and mentor, not "teach"), it should be manageable.

 

SOTW is not a high school level book. MFW elementary programs are not high school level, either, but there are ways you can beef it up to make it so. (Suppose you could do that with SOTW, too, but MFW is more "complete".) Example: Do ECC with both kids, and add the BJU Geography text for the oldest to make it high school level.

 

Or do CTG with both kids, buy AHL components used (though you'd still need some consumable parts new from MFW, including the lesson plan book unless someone decided not to use it), except have the oldest read ALL of the Old Testament instead of just the main chunks that are scheduled in CTG.

 

Of course, you'd still need to add composition, literature, and more Bible work to give high school credit.... that's the beauty of buying MFW high school package with credits already included for those subjects. Then you just add math, science, and electives at his own level.

 

Notgrass isn't used every day in MFW high school. The Notgrass set is spread out over two years with other components added in MFW.

 

If you do a search on this board for Julie in MN's posts, she's doing MFW high school with a non-academic son. Or PM her... I'm not sure where she's at... surprised she hasn't posted in this thread yet!

 

HTH.

[Melissa in CA]

Some thoughts on MFW high school with a non-book lover:

 

-- Do audio books whenever possible. I know you can get Homer on CD for AHL, and probably some others, too.

 

 

:iagree:

 

I actually found Fagels translation audio versions for The Iliad and The Odyssey on Paperbackswap! (for free!) :D They are also supposedly unabridged versions according to their ISBN.

 

I may look for a used audio bible as well, just to keep things fun and different. Plus, I think it would help with the tedious pronunciation of difficult names/places in the OT. ;)

[Donna A.]

:iagree:

 

I actually found Fagels translation audio versions for The Iliad and The Odyssey on Paperbackswap! (for free!) :D They are also supposedly unabridged versions according to their ISBN.

 

I may look for a used audio bible as well, just to keep things fun and different. Plus, I think it would help with the tedious pronunciation of difficult names/places in the OT. ;)

 

I wish I'd done this. Well, especially for Homer. My dd likes to mark up her Bible as she reads. Although, one could follow along in their own Bible while listening to audio, couldn't they? :D Hhmm... I may do that for 2nd dd.

[Brindee]

Some thoughts on MFW high school with a non-book lover:

 

-- Do audio books whenever possible. I know you can get Homer on CD for AHL, and probably some others, too.

 

-- Get an audio version of the Bible, or read it aloud together as a family instead of just having him do it on his own.

 

:iagree:

 

I actually found Fagels translation audio versions for The Iliad and The Odyssey on Paperbackswap! (for free!) :D They are also supposedly unabridged versions according to their ISBN.

 

I may look for a used audio bible as well, just to keep things fun and different. Plus, I think it would help with the tedious pronunciation of difficult names/places in the OT. ;)

:iagree:

 

Oh yeah, since I just found MFW and DD likes to read, I always forget about recommending the audio versions of the books!!! :glare: :tongue_smilie:

 

 

So NOTICE: I take back what I said about maybe not getting MFW if they don't like to read!!! Just get the audio of some of the books! :D

[Melissa in CA]

I wish I'd done this. Well, especially for Homer. My dd likes to mark up her Bible as she reads. Although, one could follow along in their own Bible while listening to audio, couldn't they? :D Hhmm... I may do that for 2nd dd.

 

Oh definitely! That's always a requirement of mine with any audio books used for school...they must follow along in the book. No daydreaming or doodling allowed! By following along in the book they not only get to hear the story, but see the actual words and hear their proper pronunciations. It's all part of my big plan. ;)