Sarawarden
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Posts posted by Sarawarden
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Thank you so much for this post. I was feeling over my head as we entered doing history for the logic stage, and this post completely put me at ease and clarified all my questions. So appreciated!
I posted this on another thread about history output for the logic stage. I'll include the link so that you can see what other families are doing too.
Monday
Medieval – early Renaissance (400-1600)
□ SOTW Vol. 2: Chap. 30, “India Under the Moghuls†pp. 272-280. (She reads the SOTW chapter, in addition to the spine, because she didn't go through it in the grammar stage. In TWTM, SWB says, if you're doing history with multiple age children, read the SOTW together, then ask the older student to 1) read the pages from the more difficult core text that correspond to the topic in SOTW, and 2) complete the other work described. I follow these recommendation for my student who didn't go through SOTW, in the grammar stage).
â–¡ Kingfisher History Encyclopedia: “India: The Moguls 1504-1605â€, pp. 218-219.
â–¡ Facts: Write down 6-8 of the most important facts in complete sentences.
â–¡ Additional Reading: Sometimes I'll assign a library book. It's depends on what her work load looks like for the day.
Tuesday
â–¡ Time Line: Mark important dates along with accompanying caption. I have her choose the most important dates in the Kingfisher encyclopedia. Sometimes I have her add all the dates.
â–¡ Map Work: I give her a blank map, in a sheet protector, of the area under study and I have her label it with a dry erase marker. She does this first, without referring to an atlas to see what she knows. Then I have her look at an atlas, compare, and label and color the map. Finally, she is to locate the area under study on a wall map and globe.
â–¡ Outline: Write a two-level outline on what you read in the Kingfisher encyclopedia, “India: The Moguls 1504-1605â€, pp. 218-219.
â–¡ Additional Reading: If I assigned reading on Monday, she can finish that or she can start a new book, or I assign nothing (again, depending on her work load for the day)
Wednesday
â–¡ Additional Reading: Choose a topic to do additional reading on (or choose a topic from a book she read Monday or Tuesday).
â–¡ Summary: Prepare a written summary, 1/2 to 1 page (200-400 words), in length, on the chosen topic
Another thing I consider when assigning outlines and summaries is, how much writing she has to do for her writing program (Writing With Skill) that day. I also try to remind myself of what SWB says about logic stage history study, that the goal is not to do an exhaustive survey of all possible history topics, but to teach the student how to study history. Hope this helps :001_smile: . Lily
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Something I am discovering about the logic stage is that my daughter is growing into the typical age characteristics slowly. She did not suddenly morph into a student who thinks more abstractly or who is more argumentative, at the beginning of 5th grade. Every kid is different and I suspect much has to do with the timing of puberty. My Dd's 5th grade year, while certainly a step up from 4th grade, was really still late elementary or grammar stage, because that's the child I had. 6th has been much more logic stage-ish in terms of how Dd seems to think and relate.
This is such an important note, ScoutTN. Both my kids began typical school here in Morocco at the ages they did and the grade they did because they were the only native English speakers in their class and anything less for them in English would have been a bore and they were young enough that they picked up French quickly. But, my Dd's birthday is August 31, so she is often a whole year younger than other kids in her same grade equivalent. My son's bday is August 7, so he's in a similar situation too. I often have to remind myself of this when there are things they are struggling with. Thanks to everyone's input here I'm really starting to grasp what a transition year 5th is going to be and with that comes a great mix of grammar and logic stages, and that maybe with my Dd her transition will sit heavier on the grammar stage end of the scale. Thanks!
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Thank you all for the suggestions. Keep them coming! I live in Morocco and I don't have much of a homeschooling support system here (really, none at all), so all these suggestions are invaluable as I spend countless hours trying to sort through websites. I already have a much clearer picture of the direction to go....next up is learning to implement them from a perspective of the logic stage- I feel just as intimidated by logic as I did when I started homeschooling 3 yrs ago! Thanks for your support.
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You can go back to SOTW, but there are other options. A lot of people like the Oxford University Press books. Other people use Human Odyssey.
For science, if you want complete and secular for logic stage biology, you probably want Real Science Odyssey's Biology. However, I second the idea that if you have a 3rd grade tag along, you could absolutely go interest led and do something that would split the difference for them. RSO is supposed to be very solidly middle school level, so it would be a bit of a challenge program for a 5th grader. Why not do an Ellen McHenry program with them together. They could do The Brain or The Elements or Botany together (or two of them as each is really a half year thing).
Thank you so much for your input. Since posting this thread I've now come across several people mentioning Oxford University Press books and Human Odyssey. I think that's the direction we'll go.
Thank you the science suggestions. I'll look over them, plus sit with the idea of doing interest led (which currently totally intimidates me).
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We haven't done it yet, but what we're looking at:
LA: mine won't be ready for WWS in 5th but if yours is a strong writer you could.
Grammar: we'll probably use Advanced Language Lessons when they come out. I'd just stall until then, personally.
History: No SOTW. You can, of course, but that wasn't the age they were written for. Basically I think if your student is ready for WWS, she's past SOTW. (Although I'd expect she'd still want to listen in to her brother's reading, because fun!)
We do integrated science, so no help there.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Thank you for mentioning WWS being challenging for 5th because this led me to find a thread discussing this very idea. I'm now going to save it for 6th grade. But now I'm trying to figure out what direction to go with our writing. I'm going between doing the Creative Writing or using ISW in hopes of better preparing her for WWS. Ideally I'd like to just use ISW Ancient Times writing program, that way we could integrate History and writing and I think that would be more interesting for her, but the ISW site says that you need to first do their complete program first. Maybe I could integrate both? I don't want to overload her.
I see that back in October SWB stated in a thread that Advanced Language Lessons will be printing soon, so I too am going to plan on using that for 5th.
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With science, are you picking Biology because you feel they need Biology in 5th or was that a choice the child made? I would consider doing an interest led year with the 3rd and 5th grader picking science topics they want to pursue. Watch documentaries, do some labs, and just explore for fun.
Oooh, this sounds like a fun idea. I've done my best not to let on to my kids that I'm not science minded, but thus far they don't seem to be very science minded either (we're a family of dancers, artists, and athletes). I feel intimidated by the thought of science being so open, but I suspect this could help foster a greater appreciation and maybe even love for science in them. Would you suggest just looking through our science encyclopedias and such and finding things that appeal to them, and then building on that? Or something else?
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Cintinative- Would it be possible to get your spreadsheet that breaks down by weeks. I think I've decided to use OUP books and K12 and I'd love to see how you laid it out! Thanks.
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We are using the OUP books in conjunction with the K12 Human Odyssey Book 1 and it is going well. I have a schedule if you choose to go this route. Someone else posted it on here and then I put it in a spreadsheet to break it out by weeks.
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Hi-
I'm trying to make sense of the 5th grade logic stage and I'm hoping some pros in this can help me!
This is what I'm thinking so far- am I correct? What would you add or subtract?
Language Arts
Writing-Writing With Skill 1
Has anyone done the Creative Writer series offered on WTM website? If so, did you do this at the same time as Writing with Skill or another writing program?
Grammar
?????
I was looking at AG, but it doesn't suggest to start it until 6th grade. I prefer to stay secular in our learning, so Rod and Staff are out, I guess. Any thoughts on Well Ordered Language or Voyages? We will have finished 1st Language Lessons Level 4 by the end of this year, so I'm at a bit of a loss for what my 10yr old daughter should do in 5th grade.
Spelling
Spelling Workout F/G
Keyboard
Keyboarding Without Tears
History
Am I correct that we are going back to reading SOTW1, but this time at a deeper level by including a resource like Kingfisher, timelines, outlines, and narrations?
Math
Math-U-See
Life of Fred
Maybe supplement with a little Singapore for additional word problems
Science
Please share with me your recommendations for a biology program for the logic stage. It should be stated I'm not a science minded gal, so I need all the help I can get- whatever you find to be the most complete.
Languages
My kids will continue with French which they speak fluently, but maybe we'll add Latin. What's your favorite Latin program?
I know everyone has strong opinions, so let me hear them!! I'm feeling a little overwhelmed entering the logic stage. Oh, and I should mention that I'll be also teaching her little brother in 3rd grade next year, so he'll be doing some of the history and science with her. Thanks!
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Ideas:
- start early
Six weeks before the rest of your school work, get started on SOTW 4 and do 1 chapter a week. By the time school starts, you'll have 36 chapters to match your 36 weeks of school.
- double up
For the first 6 weeks of school, do 2 chapters of History a week while doing a lighter load of work in the other subjects -- or wait to start 1-2 subjects until you're back to 1 chapter of History a week.
- slow down
Decide to take 1.5 or even 2 years to cover Modern history. There are SO many major events and key people that slowing down gives you time to really absorb it all and use some of the many great supplements out there -- documentaries with footage of 20th century people and events, feature films set around big events, biographies of important figures, etc. Or, by slowing down, you have time to include some US History into the World History. Or, use the extra time to integrate some Geography studies into the Modern History (cultural geography, nations & capitals, world religions, etc.). Or, use the extra time to set aside SOTW 4 for awhile and do a unit on State History, or an elections-based Civics/Government unit, and follow the Presidential election next fall. Or, by slowing down the History you have time to include a matching Science topic, like the space race/space exploration.
- don't worry about it
Do the amount of chapters that you can and that you want to during the school year -- which gives you the flexibility to also skip History a few times during the school year if other things come up. And just skip what you don't get to. Or let DC finish the remaining chapters on their own during the summer. Or, if you have about 12 chapters left by the end of the school year, save it and start the following school year with the remaining SOTW 4 chapters. Or… ;)
You're awesome. Great approaches- all of them! Plus I felt like I could breathe again after reading your ideas. Thanks!
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There are 84 sections in the book (2 sections per chapter). 84 / 36 = 2.33 lessons a week.
For the first part of this year, we had history 4 times a week. The first three days were reading a section. Day 4 of history was for projects, leftover mapwork, putting things on the timeline, whatever.
After Christmas, we've dropped down to 2 or 3 times a week to finish by May. I did that on purpose. I like to have more work at the beginning of the year and to taper off at the end. Also, if something derailed us at the beginning, then I know I'll have plenty of time to make up days. (Which did happen with our Language Arts. We will have to double up on LA lessons for a few weeks this year. Oops. We can do those extra LA lessons when we used to do history.)
This is my 2nd time of using SOTW for history for my kids. I do not supplement history with other books this time around. For right now we just read SOTW and then move on to other subjects.
The first time I did a cycle of SOTW, I did a lot of supplemental reading, so it can be done. You just have to do history 4 days a week, or even 5, if you read a lot of supplemental material.
Thank you so much for your insight. I like your approach and it sounds very doable for our family.
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I've just received the SOTW Vol.4, which we'll be using next year (I have to plan in advance because I live out of the country) and I've noticed that there are 42 chapters. I realize that prior volumes also have 42 chapters, but in the past volumes there were always a couple of chapters that were smaller in content, that I could combine into one week's worth of school time. But, I'm not seeing how to do that with Vol. 4? Each and every week looks comprehensive and I'm wondering how those currently studying in Vol. 4 are breaking up the curriculum to fit in their school year? Thanks in advance for your insight.
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I pay great attention to my 8yr old daughter's spelling and punctuation when she is doing Writing with Ease, 1st Language Lessons, and her handwriting work, but do I need to be correcting it in her history, science, geography etc....now in 3rd grade? If not, at what age do I start paying attention to her writing in all subjects? I haven't been doing it thus far because I didn't want her to feel restricted from spelling and punctuation (she's a recovering perfectionist and it hindered her free writing). Thank you!
Grammar for WTM Lesson 80 Questions
in Logic Stage & Middle Grade Challenges
Posted
We just did it today. I'm curious about your questions because we noticed some things in the key that I couldn't explain. Your questions are probably not stupid at all- I've had several throughout the program- I think my 5th grader is diving deeper into diagramming than I ever did, lol.