Have kids -- will travel
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Posts posted by Have kids -- will travel
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My husband and I also both work full time. For my five year old, he does his school reading every day with the nanny, and he has a tiny bit of math homework every week. So basically, I stopped afterschooling him when he started full time school this year. He also practices piano with DH several times a week, with one lesson per week on Saturdays.
My three-year-old is only in half-day school, so there is still time with him. Our nanny is teaching him to read, following my lead. I set out the reading work he should do, and she does it with him (and is very proud of his progress).
Over the summer where there is more time, DS5 will have daily writing, daily reading, daily math. DS3 will have daily reading and optional pre-writing (like mazes, coloring) and optional math (super simple) because he likes to tag along with big brother.
But I agree with Ordinary Shoes by the way. After a full day of school, my boy needs play and free time, and of course has homework on top of that. And I think it's a terrible idea to afterschool your child to be a step or so ahead of the teacher. How boring for Mom (or Dad) to teach something that will be taught in just a month at school. My kiddos are very advanced, so their easy work won't be taught to them for more than a year. The enrichment I do in the case of DS5 is primarily to provide some challenge, which he doesn't get at school (and I do love his school).
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This was sparked by the overparenting comments on the burnout thread, btw. I usually will count myself as highly educated (despite not having a college degree), but I don't overparent because I need something to do with my drive and talent or w/e. I overparent out of fear. Because things were so bad for several years that I was having flashbacks and panic attacks for a long time after things improved. I don't have a crystal ball. I just want my kids to be prepared for whatever the big bad world throws at them when they're grown-ups. I know that that's impossible, that I can't plan for everything that might happen, but having a degree tends to beat not having a degree - it seriously reduces the risk of unemployment and increases the odds of making a living wage.
I need to get away from the "worst case scenario" outlook on life. I just don't know how to do that. I don't even know if I want to, because it's scary to not prepare for the worst. I'm still scared things may fall apart again tomorrow. So the more I can do (figurative) today, the better.
Look into selective liberal arts schools. My alma mater had tremendous scaffolding for undergraduates, including free tutoring, incredibly accessible professors, free mental health care (anonymous as well), mentoring, and more, all designed to get every single entering freshman to graduate within four years. Small (expensive, private) schools can and do work with all kids to make everyone successful. Given your concerns, I think it would help to look into the graduation percentages. Those schools with high numbers work hard to keep students successful.
Selective schools are better for the very intelligent, IMO, because the peers are so much more similar. Everyone works hard, everyone has a very high capacity. You get to be really stretched, not artificially stretched (wow, impressive for someone so young, for example). The content is just a higher level than a run-of-the-mill school. No competition. High school age kids wouldn't have nearly a strong enough background to do upper level sciences, for example. You need a strong calculus background to understand 300 level chemistry for example. You need organic chemistry (not AP chemistry) to have any chance understanding 200 level genetics in biology.
Science is what I know, and particularly there, without a high enough level, you don't get the real understanding. Regular students don't have strong enough math for a professor to give molecular orbital theory justice. Yes, you can teach it, but it isn't at the same level if you can't write out the Hamiltonian and expect students to make proper calculations on probability.
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Can she get single subject acceleration in math? I'd look into that before the end of the school year. The problem isn't just that she's ahead of the class, it's also that she gets to sit through lessons that she's beyond. Boring and demotivating at best, a recipe for perfectionism or underachievement at worst.
My oldest really enjoys his afterschool math program. It's a bit faster than school, not quite enough, but it works for us because I work full time and can't teach any extra.
Games are great, and she may enjoy some online options if screens are as compelling to her as they are to my boys. I don't know exactly for the level you're looking for, but Khan Academy, Sumdog, Dreambox, Prodigy, and IXL Math are good places to start looking.
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Mine are younger, but honestly, at 10 I'd prefer a generalist to a specialist. Burnout in a field is a real issue in hard sciences, where the specializations are very narrow. I love chemistry through to my bones but didn't discover that until college. By the end of two years undergrad research and four years of grad research, I was absolutely sick of it. I can't imagine having started before high school and not just gotten utterly tired of the subject altogether.
I agree with much of the above that it's better to encourage completion than dabbling, but no need to push for a passion in maths or sciences.
Undergrad/grad maths and sciences look so different from the high school variant that you can't expect a child to choose properly. I loved high school math and upper level calculus, so much that I was the Calc III TA. But upperlevel math (200's/300's) was so boring to me that I didn't pursue it further. High school chemistry was dull to me; in undergrad, it involved so much more analytical thinking that I loved it.
FWIW, DH and I both have very specialist degrees and ended up with generalist careers (highly sought-after). A strong technical background proves that you can learn at a high level; these skills are broadly applicable and in high demand.
Keep your generalist, I say. Yes, I know the early-on specialist genius from my undergrad who is now tenure-tracked at Harvard. But she's literally one-in-a-million, and I wouldn't want her life (no partner, no kids, no life outside of work).
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If by pre-literacy we mean talking to them, sure. If there is felt to be a need for some more specialized sets of skills, then not so much. In reality I think those programs are necessary in group learning in a different way.
Parents at home who interact with their kids are most likely giving them what they need. And if the kids are already in school six hours a day it is probably better if the parents take them for a walk rather than doing reading work. They need that too.
How long is the expectation that parents spend at home? My son does his reading daily, and it's usually 15 minutes. Plenty of time spared for walks, playing, games, and so on.
As long as the school offers sufficient playtime for kids, 15 minutes in the afternoon or evening is hardly a major sacrifice. It's better as well for the kids to get two short sessions of reading per day rather than one long one.
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I wonder though. Would a child who is reading at a chapter-book level be enjoying learning phonics and first readers any more than just non-reading activities?
First readers can be dreadful or fun. Learning phonics can be fun or dreadful. Non-reading activities fall into the same categories. My son would take a fun phonics lesson over a coloring worksheet, for example. He was actually telling his little brother, who will start letter-of-the-week at school next year that his class wasn't nearly as fun because they're done with sounds.
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Mazes are another good option if he's got good fine motor. My three-year-old is obsessed with mazes. I really like the Kumon books and put the mazes in plastic covers for use with dry erase markers. He likes to do them over and over and over (particularly the ones with cars in them!).
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Just anecdotally, I was on the phone with a reading specialist last week to sign my kids up for a summer reading class. I mentioned that my youngest started reading chapter books at age 4, and she seemed pretty amazed. I remember my kid's preK teacher being amazed that she could read an easy reader. I've never gotten the impression from anyone that reading is "expected" at age 4, in the USA anyway. I know it is pushed at age 4 in some countries.
K4 in the UK is called reception. This is my son's current year. The children were learning to blend in the first two weeks of school, and all the sounds, including sh/ch/th and long vowels were covered (and expected to be used in blending and writing) before Christmas break.
The parents with summer-born boys are most definitely told that their children are behind. A friend's boy who just turned five last month in considered behind because he's not yet writing sentences.
So this is what I mean when I say that schools push too hard, too early. These expectations for K5 seem reasonable, that you end up with a reader from an average child at the end of the year, but for K4, it's just an exercise in frustration for many.
Holland, in contrast, doesn't teach reading until first grade. No letters or phonics until then. Great for the kids who need time to develop. But for my chapter-book-reading five year old, two years from first grade, that would be a disaster.
I don't think any system is going to suit everyone. Because my boys' current school clearly aims at the upper half of the bell curve, we're happy, but those in the middle of the bell curve will struggle and feel indeed unnecessarily slow.
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My kid is 9yo in 4th grade and she (along with several classmates) gets pull-out tutoring multiple times a week. She is nothing but happy about this. (And it's not because she's socially clueless or immature.) As far as I know, none of the pull-out kids have issues with it. If a 9yo (and some 10yos etc.) are happy with this situation, why on earth would a 5yo feel badly about it?
And why is it considered worse to give different assistance to the "less ready" kids, but nobody worries that the advanced kids will be damaged by pull-outs for their benefit?
Kids know which group they are in. They know at age 5 when they are in the slow group or the fast group. One teacher I know had a boy in the slow group finish early, so he gave him something extra from a higher level. The boy's reply: "I can't do this! I'm in the silly group."
Remediation itself isn't harmful, but teaching a five or six year old early on that they are "slow" or "behind" is damaging.
My older son has benefited from a system that does play-based academics early, but I see friends of his struggling and parents stressed. It works amazingly well for us, so I can't complain, but honestly, I can't see how it's good for the average student.
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My K'er doesn't really have enough after finishing his school reading for extra math. In preschool, we did RightStart Math, and if I were to do anything now, it would Singapore.
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Put the lego in the closet for a month and take it out again. He'll be un-bored with lego.
We have about half our lego at any time in the closet. Same goes with general toys, by the way. Instant boredom relief when the closet comes open (and then what's put out goes back in the closet, ready to become new again).
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What age is your child? How strong are the two fluent languages?
If Turkish and English are both full bilingual proficiency, it's reasonable to add another language. That said, working on Turkish yourself will help your child's language skills as well!
I have to agree with PPs about not seeing the usefulness in ancient languages (having spent years in high school and college learning Latin and Greek myself). Unless my child was specifically asking for that I'd skip it. Translations are really good, and nothing beats a living language for understanding an entire culture!
Are you fluent in French or will you be using a tutor? Is there any French in the community or other speakers to practice with? Having learned Dutch as an adult, I have come to appreciate how social a language is. Learning a language in isolation is a painful exercise in memorizing words. I'd leave French out unless there is some sort of community or you have an older child (8/10+).
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Yes, our school is private. The UK seems to do this sort of thing early, and our school is particularly fast moving, especially considering that more than half of the children don't have English as a first language.
I'm honestly very in favor of play-based schooling for as long as possible. My boy can read chapter books in preK but would be very unhappy filling out worksheets and coloring.
FWIW, my oldest couldn't write his name well until the end of preK3. Boys!
What does a classical model of education entail for preschoolers? I can't imagine anyone would have success with lots of seatwork for three-year-olds.
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My personal experience with my son was many of the students were at least beginning readers upon entry to Kindergarten, and most of the rest had the presursor reading skills (understood phonic value of the alphabet, etc). All the students were reading well by the end of K using phonic instruction.
Those kids score phenomenally well in the Common Core exit exams last year as 5th graders. And most are in challenging academic programs Middle Schools as 6th Graders this year.
So I didn't see expectation that were either wrong or unrealistic for these kids. They are thriving.
Bill
Our school (UK-based curric) has these same expectations for pre-K aged (4's and 5's). Lots of kids fall short and 5 to 10% repeat the preK year as a result. I could see having these expectations for K'ers as more realistic (our school draws exclusively from very highly educated parents).
For an example, the preK class has already covered long vowels and is working on consonant blends. Very advanced for the summer birthdays, who are just four-and-a-half.
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I don't think anyone really says there is such a universal age, that is something of a straw man. What there is however is an inappropriate expectation in the schools of English speaking countries that all children will be reading at 5, or they will be behind.
This. By having reading expectations so high, you teach young children that they are failing at the ages of 4 and 5. What an awful way to begin a very long academic career.
I wish there were a way for schools to teach reading early for those ready without making five-year-olds feel like failures.
That said, for those ready, early reading opens up a wonderful world that is a shame to miss just because someone decided it isn't yet appropriate. Both of mine are early readers, and my 3yo loves being able to understand more about the world simply because he can read signs.
I remember as child (the youngest) understanding that everyone else could read all of those signs around me, and not being able to was exceptionally frustrating. Apparently, this was motivating, because I was also reading fluently by K.
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Sophie's World may be a good choice as well.
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Yes, us too. I'm looking very closely at the research happening at our possible universities, and trying to determine how involved an undergraduate can be. You have to be pretty advanced to do math research, though.
Elite liberal arts colleges tend to be the best place for undergraduate research. Big universities have sufficient grad students to do research with limited availability for undergrad participation.
The private (very top tier) college where I went had research opportunities for all students, more typically from sophomore year when I started, but highly motivated students could start sooner. The (STEM) department at my liberal arts school was incredible, with a student from the year above me now tenure-tracked at a good school and a student the year above that tenure-tracked at Harvard. Grad school places at elite research universities were common.
IMO, undergrad research doesn't get better than at liberal arts schools.
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Asking a homeschooling board about B&M schooling is slightly self-selective, if you catch what I mean. As a former (light) homeschooler who has since gone back to work, I don't post here much but like to read on occasion.
Our boys are definitely on the higher end of the scale (older tested 3+ standard deviations above average for his age in reading and math, younger seems to do everything faster and better), and they are very happy at school. Our older has benefited from the attention on fine motor (school got him to grade level, he refused at home) and dramatically improved in his emotional control. He loves the projects, interactions with classmates and teachers, and special parts of school like P.E. and D.E. (digital education). The school is also very receptive to exceptional children.
Younger's school is 100% play. The theme now is transport, and there's a pretend airplane, with ticket office (and laminated fake money), and a pretend rocket with planets and stars. He loves his teacher and is developing social skills and doing messy art projects that I don't like to do at home.
This is a private school that caters almost exclusively to parents with STEM degrees, so YMMV. But don't discount school in general based on a homeschooling board. Homeschooling is definitely right for many families, but school is a good option for others.
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Maine, one of our favorite places on earth. Yellowstone or something near Rocky Mountain NP in Colorado. Dude ranch in Texas. New Orleans.
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No idea about Riggs. How old is your child? Going into K, there will probably be a few kids reading fluently. Our then 4yo went into preK reading fluently, while the class worked through learning to blend, and he hasn't been bored because the phonics lessons are short and aimed to be relatively fun for kids.
K is a long way off for you, so I wouldn't worry about the expectations until you're a bit closer. If you're thinking about early entrance for K, that's a very different matter and depends on maturity, fine motor, independence, age, and other factors.
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A note about the DAN protocol. FYI
http://www.quackwatch.org/04ConsumerEducation/Nonrecorg/dan/overview.html
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We'd have some soft cheeses (like brie), hard cheeses (like cheddar or gouda, preferably very old!), a blue cheese (cambozola is my fav!), and whatever else looked interesting. I love goat cheeses as well, soft or hard.
I'd generally go with one or two types of bland cracker so you could taste the cheese.
For fruit, dates is a great idea.
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Just jumping in here to hear the other side.
I've been out of the US for a while, so the whole gun debate seems (honestly) absurd. So many people are dying, and yet a significant portion feel that it's people killing people rather than gun killing people. But if guns were removed (a la Australia in 1996), mass killings couldn't happen on the same scale.
Pro-gun ownership people, can you explain why the US can't just get rid of (most of!) the guns and dramatically reduce gun violence?
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I second cooperative games! Forbidden Island is well-loved by my 5yo.
Carcassone and Carcassone Junior are both good fun. Uno is my kids' favorite though.
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Going back to work full-time
in Parents' Forum Afterschooling Board
Posted
You can definitely work with a teacher to find alternative homework solutions for advanced kiddos. That does require approaching schooling with a different attitude.
You have a few months to let the changes sink in, and you may indeed feel differently once you get started. I understand your disappointment now that you need to work and your child need to attend school, but you may find it freeing to watch them progress in weaker (painful-to-teach) subjects without whining (my son went from whining about writing to filling up pages and pages passionately ... thank you, school, because I could not have effected that change at home). You may enjoy the challenge outside the home, and your kids may enjoy the schooling, social aspects, and fun extras.
Or it may indeed be a season to survive, in which case you can take comfort knowing you plan to return to homeschool.
I'd just recommend working on seeing the teacher as a partner in learning, rather than your competition, and go in with an attitude of cooperation. You can be the involved parent who works with the teacher to find a great solution for your children, or you can be "that" parent ... and your kids will definitely not be better off for it.