Oh he doesn't have a plan. He's a philosopher, he lives in the loft. ;) I mentioned earlier in the thread... his thought is that if our local parochial school is doing good and is reforming (for instance our parish is moving towards more classical education at the moment), that we should support the school by sending our kids there. Because if we all keep our children home, then the support won't be there and likely the reform won't happen. I see his argument and agree with it to a certain degree, I just think many Catholic schools are subject to the same sorts of issues as public schools and are often just as mainstream. Same with many private schools, unless they are specifically geared otherwise.

Sorry, I know. You weren't the first to use the word "sacrifice". I like what you say here though. Of course we will wait, especially since we don't even know where we will live when schooling time comes. I would just rather not get to Kindergarten and with me feeling as if homeschooling is the way to go and my husband feeling (still) that it isn't even an option.

Ok - thanks everyone for your input! For anyone posting - PUBLIC SCHOOL IS NOT IN QUESTION HERE. :) Given the philosophical beliefs that he holds, we agree that public school, as it is right now, is not going to work. I'm more looking for actual arguments here that will appeal to him, given his beliefs. Telling him that he's sacrificing his child because of those beliefs isn't going to convince him to homeschool. ;) Thank you again everyone!

If you read above, public school isn't what we're considering here. Pretty sure my husband is not sacrificing his children anytime soon.

Oh - I just replied to someone else. Yes, having a co-op definitely makes him more sympathetic to the idea.

I have made this point to him - and he agrees that a co-op situation (or even an informal community of homeschoolers) definitely makes it better.

Ehhhhh... I wouldn't say he agrees with all of that. At all. My husband is ironically enough very anti-State. The ideas of Aristotle that we're discussing here aren't to be connected to the State but to a community in a more broad term. My husband believes that education should happen in a communal atmosphere, with people who share common values and goals. He (and I don't think Aristotle!) does not think it should be run by the State, but by the community. America is very anti-Aristotelian, namely because of its size and also because of its lack of community. The idea is that your community, your people, are the people who both live near and share values with. You share the same "end" and therefore you come together and educate your children together and with the same values in mind. They are given the same education. America has adopted this general idea, but it doesn't work because again, the size and the lack of shared values. When you keep it small-scale (to your parish, your street, your group of friends, whatever), it is easier to understand his position without making grand statements about my husband sacrificing our children on the altar of government-run-education. (Edited for some typos! Though I'm sure I missed some.)

This is very interesting. I'm going to consider this more. So glad you are helping me out here.

Hmm... I wouldn't call my husband's career a "late night college philosophical salon". And of course he is concerned with what is best for his kid, we just disagree on what the best is. Part of the discussion is a discussion in an individualistic idea of schooling. While yes, we have to look at each individual person, we also don't buy into the American ideal of individualism. We have community and how we educate out children matters to more people than just that child. Also, just because Aristotle gets a few things wrong doesn't negate everything he ever said. But I'm not going to debate that right now. :)

Oh, of course Aristotle was only one man and more than just he has something to say about education. But for someone who has devoted his life to that one man's theories (and in particular, the man's theory on learning and intellect), convincing him to read other things is going to be a little hard. ;) Which is why I'm here of course. And YES. I say that all the time. My husband is the exception to have come out of public school and end up an expert on ancient philosophy...

Oh my goodness - this is excellent. My husband studied under MacIntyre in undergrad. He definitely agrees with all of this. Another quick point - really, public school isn't the issue here. We both agree that public school is generally not an option anymore. (Which is why this whole thing may be moot, because if we can't afford private school then homeschool it is!) He would say that we should invest more in our parochial schools, as we are Catholic and our parish is the closest thing to our "polis" (geographic location, common goals, shared values, etc). I think that a parochial school (ideally) would fall under this "monastery" idea. So yes - exactly what you said, it is more what my husband is thinking. But even the Catholic schools are under the rule of the standard mainstream schooling system, in my opinion. Plus, we've always said we'd rather our kids go to a non-Catholic school than a bad-Catholic school. With any faith, you'd rather your children not be taught it at school than be taught it wrong at school, right? That's a whole different discussion though (and not one for here!).

I will look into both of these - thank you!

This made me chuckle... YES it is a pain in the butt sometimes.

Y'all - this is an excellent thread. I have to go for a while, but I'll be back! Also, quick note, *I* don't need the convincing to homeschool. My husband does. ;) I think he's closer to agreeing and when the time comes, I think it will be our only option honestly.

No, I don't think so. I don't think he thinks that either. See above where I mentioned supporting a pastor who is reforming his school.

No, he doesn't think public schools are working. He thinks they're broken. He just thinks they need fixed and that homeschooling doesn't fix. Sigh... Oh and of course Aristotle's idea of "all" is way different than today.

Oh I could kiss you right now. You make SUCH a good point about how he is discussing public policy and not individual needs of a child. Thank you!

THIS! Yes. This is what he thinks... but he may be willing to sacrifice the children. One thing we discussed (we're Catholic, btw) is that if we have a pastor who is doing great things to reform his parish's elementary school, we should support him in those efforts. I agree, we should, but I want to support him and not sacrifice the children. Once the school is at a certain level of better-ness, then we can consider enrollment. (I say this because our pastor is actually reforming his school and bringing a lot of Classical Education into it - we are not a diocese that adopted Common Core, thank goodness - and this is all good!) That said, the cost of private school is something we could likely never afford so it probably is a moot point.

Hah - no worries! Thank you!

We are moving in the next 18 months, which is another reason why we have tabled the discussion. You make some very good points though. I think his response would be that yes, Aristotle's world is not here. And Aristotle's ideal may not have existed even then, but that since it is an ideal, we should be doing what we can to achieve that ideal. And to him, homeschooling is in a way, running away from the problem rather than working to fix it. :glare:

YES! I have mentioned that before and I think it resonated with him. The education Aristotle was speaking of was in a forum. The students would meet and be educated by philosophers (not experts in math, philosophers of math!). It wouldn't be 8 hours of lecture and then homework, but the teacher proposing the topics and the students working and discussing them. So very different than school.

Right! I agree. He agrees that the education received won't be adequate but that the fact that it is "public" (in the sense that its communal, it could mean private education as well) is a big concern.

I'll have to ask my husband more about what "the end" is. I know it has something to do with a general idea of "the good". The idea is that the end/goal of man/life is to achieve good/happiness/something-along-those-lines. I agree, and my husband basically agrees, that the current schooling system is not fulfilling this quote either. (off to try to reply to everything! :) )

My husband is a philosopher, specializing in Aristotle's Intellect. We are only in the preschool phase of homeschooling. We have decided to table discussion of future schooling beyond that for now because we simply do not see eye-to-eye (and our children are 8 months and 2.5 years, so I'm ok with this!). That said, his argument's against homeschooling stem from this: "And since the whole city has one end, it is manifest that education should be one and the same for all, and that it should be public, and not private--not as at present when everyone looks after his own children separately, and gives them separate instruction of the sort which he thinks best." (from Aristotle's Politics) I don't want to "convince" him to agree with me but I am trying to engage the conversation more and address his concerns. Has anyone had discussions similar to this that could shed some light for me (and him!)? (Oh and I'm new! Loving looking around the boards!)