vonbon
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Posts posted by vonbon
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Maybe getting way off topic here...friend's daughter is in 1st grade, public school. She regularly has 1 hour of math homework per night. 1st grade! (I don't know if homework is assigned for other subjects.) Obviously, this varies between schools.
Part of the reason is my friend is an invested/engaged parent and former PS teacher. She wants her child to actually learn the math vs. just getting passed this year. In their case, and in my perception (based off of a lot of anecdotal stories, comments, etc.--so take it with a grain of salt?):
If there are 25-30 kids in a classroom and a variety of subjects to cover and behavioral issues to address throughout the day, chances are the teacher is not going to be able to cover math concepts deeply or thoroughly. (Obviously this also varies between schools.) A great deal of the work and practice is sent home. I'm not judging whether this is right or wrong--it's just the reality of many school settings, I think. Too many required "standards" and subjects; too little time for the 3 R's; teachers addressing too many behavioral issues/needs. I feel bad for those kids without parents who are capable and willing to complete the math lessons/practice at home.
Just saying, if parents want their kids to excel in math, yes, I can conceive "hours" of math per night. Not saying I would chose that, but, if what I've described is anywhere close to the average American school experience, I can see where hours of math per day would happen in certain circles and pockets of people (as described upthread).
ETA: Came back to say: Sorry, OP...re-read some of the thread and realized it got off-course in regards to math homework/hours in a way that maybe isn't helpful to your original post. Sorry you are in a tough spot with your dd and I hope you will find solutions that make math better for both of you. :grouphug:
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DD will be home, so holidays will be an extended feast - she loves to cook. Also, she is living with a vegetarian room mate and has a vegan boyfriend; she craves meat.
We will make a roasted duck, probably on Christmas. Also have a lamb roast in the freezer. And I make the traditional salad my grandmother used to make: potatoes, apples, beets, pickles and celery. Sounds weird, but is delicious.
That salad sounds awesome...Is that a specific family recipe or would there be any similar recipes online that you know of?
I would love to try making that! Thanks!
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Totally lame and convinced the kids it wasn't fair to expect St. Nic to show up on the 6th AND the 25th, and since we get stuff in our stockings on the 25th that's enough.
Pretty much any Catholic store will have saint statues.
Wait...this is so un-Catholic! :tongue_smilie: (Yep, I just made that word up. And, you are Catholic, right?) Clearly, St. Nick shows up on his feast day to thank people for remembering him and his good works. And since he has his priorities straight, he obviously continues his good works to celebrate Jesus' birth.
That's my story and I am sticking to it with our kids.
FWIW, though, he only leaves something small on his day around here. Last year that was mittens and this year a toothbrush. Oh and a couple treats.
Signed,
Someone raised Catholic who never got to celebrate St. Nick's day
This is particularly funny to me because, as a fairly-recent Catholic convert, last night, my brain was trying to make sense of how I would answer questions about how Santa could come to our house TWO times in December...
My kids can be very detail-oriented on questions (interrogations, rather) on these types of things. Happily, they forgot to ask! :laugh:
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Yes :)
He visited last night and filled stockings with candy, pajamas, and a saint statue for each kiddo.
As an aside, where does one find saint statues? Any good, reputable websites you know of? Thanks!
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I love the ideas of ornaments, saint statues, watching videos...This is going to become a very fun tradition in our house!
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First time celebrating it!
Read a history yesterday on the original Saint Nicolas...very interesting for all ages! It described the various images and stories that have been associated with this saint throughout the centuries...how he is regarded throughout the world and by various names, etc.
There were some very cool real-life applications to it, as the piece discussed how St. Nicolas was truly an approachable, warm priest and bishop who encouraged people from all backgrounds and walks of life.
Put little Santa Claus candles on the breakfast table...
Had DC leave shoes out on the front porch...and put pretty, new sheets (mattress sheets) "on" them, as their shoes are small and I could not fit them inside...
(The practical side of me didn't want to put candy in their shoes, as they have too many opportunities to eat junk around the holidays anyway and I just couldn't find any dollar-store type things yesterday that weren't junky...They were excited to get new sheets on the porch this morning!)
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I'm one of those people who say awkward or dumb things on a fairly regular basis, I think.. It's like I'm missing a gene or some filter or something that would make me THINK through all of what I say/ask before it comes out of my mouth. Or I say it with a tone that somehow doesn't truly communicate things in the way that I mean to.
And then, I'm introverted, so I replay conversations and worry about how other people took what I said. Sometimes I think people completely (like 180 degrees difference) misunderstand what I'm trying to say!
Also have a dry sense of humor so that is, yet again, another opportunity for misunderstanding to occur--
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To OP and anyone else needing to rescue a "bad day":
I love this post, have bookmarked it, and return to it when things are sort of "rock bottom" and I need to get back on track:
http://www.likemotherlikedaughter.org/2012/10/10-survival-tactics-for-rescuing-bad-day/
[10 Survival Tactics for Rescuing a Bad Day] on Like Mother Like Daughter
I know the original question was related more to homeschooling, but there are some good points in the blog post above for anyone. Even more grace is needed with a baby in the mix.
Some of the responses have been a little bit harsh, I think. Calizzy, you are attempting to resolve issues, so it's clear you are trying to work on making your schooling better...I hope you give yourself a bit of breathing room as you begin to implement many of the good responses.
If you are a recovering perfectionist like I am, try not to see entire days as either bad or good. Most days contain a bit of both and getting too extreme about declaring a day "bad" or "good"...throwing in the towel...that sort of thing does you no favors. I know from experience that extreme thinking can be part of depression...
Hopefully you can hear a calmer voice that says it's OK to take various small 10-minute breaks throughout the day and then get back to the work at hand. Love the advice about the 3 R's.
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She grew up in Germany during and after the war, and her Christmases were so simple. A lot of handmade things, and maybe a piece of fruit or two.
My dad grew up similarly--same time, near Germany. An orange or banana was a big deal!
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MIL has a huge bin of LEGO--like hundreds of parts and pieces?--from DH's and brothers' childhood (80's)...That bin gets pulled out and played with thoroughly at every family gathering!
So THAT was a gift that lasted!
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I agree--fun to see how people live life differently.
Realized through reading some posts--yeah--for today's teens: laptops, stuff for college, decent clothes and boots/shoes that will last...If you combine all of that, it can get pricey quickly! And those are all things pretty much needed to navigate the modern life, in this country/culture anyway. So maybe $500 is not so high after all, depending on how you look at it. For some, $500 seems to be covering needs and basic items to "do life" while for others, it is more like "icing" in addition to those needs being met. Anyway-- interesting thread.
One other point I saw up-thread and noticed recently in life: DC seem to value connection over stuff. They don't necessarily notice or particularly mind what brands things are, in general. They're young and they do like certain things, but they seem pretty content with whatever... A grandparent remarked that they were worried that what they were able to do with DC might not match up with the "other-side" grandparents--experiences and gifts and such. What I notice is that DC really get a kick out of spending time with and doing anything with all of their grandparents (exercising, baking, talking, etc.). So, while an experience or gift is cool or fun, it really doesn't seem to matter as much as the craving they have for their grandparents' time and attention. Those connected times are what they mention over and over again--much more so than the gifts that get put aside down the road.
I am trying to become more aware and intentional about mixing fun and connection into each day/week. It's easy for me to get focused on busy-ness, especially in this season, and forget to relax, connect, and have fun with my family.
Edit: whoops--
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A teenaged family member was recently commenting on Christmas gifts and a friend's parents take on it. The parents told their daughter she could either just have the $500 they planned to spend on gifts for her or they would pick out the presents for her.
Internally my jaw dropped. $500?! For one teen? Wow. (Maybe this is "normal" in some areas/cultures?) They do live in a somewhat-more-affluent-than-the-average-American area, though it butts right up to a less-than-average-American-affluence area.
$500 is about what we've spent on the entire Christmas season for our family and others for years (gifts, random donations, wrapping paper, food, travel, etc.).
$500 could feed my family for 2.5 months. I realize we are super-frugal in some ways and maybe this is not the "norm".
$500 could buy half of the old, totally-working used car I just sold...a perfect teen car for getting to school/work.
No judgment here. It's none of my business, really. I was just kind of shocked/surprised that this was the "norm" for my family member and her friends. On her end, it wasn't said as something over-the-top...just normal. I don't think my family lives in that world.
I don't think it's bad/wrong--maybe that's that family's situation/bent and people live life differently--thankfully! It was just so different from how we've lived that it was a bit shocking to me. I'm sure in some circles, $500 per teen is nothing. Growing up, Christmas gifts were generally fairly pared-down and basic in our family.
I can imagine Christmas becoming more expensive as my kids enter the teen years. Then again, maybe we will take a different tack up this "mountain". I would love for our family to focus on the spiritual side of things more than the "getting"...serve others who truly need basic care...I am an idealist though and I do see costs increasing as my children enter new activities and social situations.
I dunno, I completely, 100% think that new clothes are a totally valid Christmas gift. In my house, having a different opinion than that would = signs that a person is becoming spoiled, entitled, and, frankly, should probably shift their focus from self to others. Maybe I'm an ogre. So many people on this planet will never have a single piece of new clothing in their lives. (Not that I preach about this at Christmas. Just my personal opinion.)
FWIW, we set aside about $50/month throughout the year to maintain a constant balance of $600 for weddings that might come up, birthdays, Christmas, etc. We can be generous when the need for a nice gift arises because the money is just there. No credit balances. Tithe, giving, and donations are separate from this.
Also, many years we have put money into raw materials to make all of our gifts for extended family. This does take some thought, time, and commitment to working ahead, though, and that gets harder to do as life gets busier some years. Some years we just can't face it and don't, opting to purchase things. I have a bin in the garage where I store gifts that I find throughout the year for particular people. It helps cut down the cost and stress of last-minute. Ideally, I'd love to spend gobs on everyone...it's just not our reality.
This year and at other occasions, I've challenged my under-10 DC to make gifts for one another. I helped them purchase clay, fabric, etc. and they are excited about their ideas. I am excited that they don't see "going to the store" and buying some plastic-y thing as the only option for giving a really nice, thoughtful, beautiful gift. (Though sometimes we do buy plastic-y things.) The only problem is that now I've committed my already-busy self to several hours of helping them make their gifts a reality. :sad: If I can help them start soon, it can be a joy vs. a stress. :001_smile:
(I realize the homemade ideas might not be quite as applicable for teens, but if a teen had skills in a particular area, I've seen some amazing handmade and artistic gifts that meant more to the recipient than any bought item ever could have.)
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DD8 just said a few days ago that she prefers doing math on the white board. Easier to write everything out and think. Says there's not enough space in the margins of the workbook to write out her work. Plus, she's the type of person who doesn't want any "scratch" work, mistakes or writing on her pages, so maybe the board allows her to be a bit messier and freer.
[Costco sells packs of dry-erase markers.]
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I can't really speak to the aspect of schooling many children, but in regards to "using the curriculum that works vs. what you like", I wanted to add:
The scientist in me really, really likes BSFU for science. In theory. The content and the way it's organized. The way it's written.
The problem is I'm just never getting to it. There's a little too much reading ahead and gathering-of-materials to do on a daily or weekly basis for me. It's not that the concepts are difficult to understand or convey...It's just not really open-and-go, which--due to our life/schedule--is what I need on a regular basis if formal science is going to get done. DH works in science and we do a lot of informal science lifestyle-wise, but I try to work through a formal course of study as well. So...
I just ordered something new last week.
Finally realized after several months of BSFU sitting on the shelf that using something different--albeit possibly "inferior", to my way of thinking--would be better than not accomplishing anything.
And accomplishing something "inferior" (said with humor--I know there are a lot of good science programs out there) would definitely be superior to doing nothing!
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I like wool rugs but I've never been sure about how I'd go about cleaning one (short of hiring it out, which seems expensive).
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Yeah, perfectly normal. Lots of kids are not terribly independent at that age. And in fact, depending on personality, you may have a child that NEEDS that interaction to learn. My DD does not. She prefers to function as independently as possible and is not into lots of collaboration and discussion. DS is the opposite. He actually retains better, stays more focused, stays more interested if he has someone to bounce things off of, discuss with and generally share. He does not learn well in a vacuum.
Thanks. This helps me re-set my expectations (DD is my first; sometimes it's hard to know if I'm expecting too much or too little.) I would prefer to learn alone and, now that I reflect on it, I see that DD and I are very different in that way--
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Some of this may depend on introvert/extrovert nature--- an introvert may be most comfortable working on their own much of the time, while an extrovert will crave companionship and struggle to focus if it is withdrawn. In that case it may be enough for the teacher/mom/dad to sit nearby working on something of their own.
Thanks, you're right. My daughter is definitely high on the extrovert side of the scale! She craves companionship. Actually this is the one major challenge of homeschooling for us: not as much interaction with her peers as she'd like--which would be a ton, if judged by her preference.
Realizing that she's very capable of independent work in various ways and even with math if she is confident with the material. But I think I was trying to push her to quickly in the direction of independence with newer material.
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2. I think it is unrealistic to look for a math program for a young elementary age student that can be done independently with only overall guidance and periodic supervision. It is too easy for a child to misunderstand what they are doing and get that misunderstanding ingrained. Unlearning then relearning material is very inefficient and can really muck a child up. I would absolutely still be working with a young child daily to introduce concepts, work together through examples, THEN let them try some problems on their own. After they finish trying some problems on their own, review what they did DAILY to make sure there are no misunderstandings. Slow down when they need to slow down and pick up the pace when they need to move faster. If you need your oldest to work independently upon occasion then maybe get something like CTC or Prodigy for practice on the computer but not as the primary program.
This is helpful--thanks. I'd been a little frustrated lately that DD8 does not seem to be motivated to work as independently on math as I'd hoped. I've been following the steps you wrote out here (introduce, work together through examples, then some independent work...never thought about reviewing at the end), but hoped the independent work might come a little easier and faster. (This is partly because I don't think the math DD is doing is particularly difficult for her--just right. Trying to ferret out if it's an attitude thing, an "I'd-rather-work-with-someone-else-than-alone thing, or...???)
This thread lets me know it is normal for an 8yo to be unsure/reluctant about completing all of the independent work alone.
Gathering that the independent part comes along later down the road--
More thoughts? (Not to derail--)
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For OP and anyone else dealing with boring spelling lessons...
May I suggest Spelling Power? It's a spelling curriculum that goes from beginning to adulthood--all in one book. It's leveled and, as the student increases in skill, they flow through the levels. It also includes phonics / spelling rules.
The beauty of it is that the student only practices and studies the words they don't know. So they're not spending time on words they already know (beyond the initial daily "pretest"). It can be as challenging or as gentle as you'd like. You can go at your own pace, so you could spend as few as 10 minutes per day--longer for older students. You can choose to work on a full list at a time or just cut it into smaller segments.
There's also a box full (maybe 200+?) of cards that suggests various interesting and fun ways to practice. The cards are written for various ages.
I'm probably not doing the curriculum justice in the way I'm explaining it, but it's very good. Not flashy, but very solid. I love that it is written for all ages.
As to the age you wrote about (5yo), OP, it seems so very young to me. I'm not an expert and your experience may be different. We've waited until recently (2nd/3rd grade) to begin a structured spelling program.
ETA: Oops--I just remembered that the author of Spelling Power strongly recommends in the intro waiting until age 8 (or around that age) to begin the curriculum. Just remembered that is why we waited a bit, though I guess we started a little on the early side at age 7.5.
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Just signing in to say that I can 100% relate to your questions and concerns. We've used Singapore since K and are now in 3A.
I specifically recall the addition/subtraction units last year in 2A as being really long and more difficult than other units. It helped to know that a friend whose child is about 1 1/2 years older than my DD struggled with the same concepts. They're both bright kids in multiple ways, so hearing her "warning" about the +/- units kind of geared me up and let me anticipate that they might be hard. Otherwise, I probably would have freaked out. I was sick of the subtraction part by the time we got through all of it (very long, if I recall correctly?), but it went well and we've moved on.
I approached it by doing what's been mentioned above: slowing down! I got off the recommended pace (pacing guide set out by the book) and just ignored it. We ended up with a few extra units at the end of the year but they were the "softer" units (geometry, measurement, time, money, etc.), so it was no big deal to do them over the summer and/or finish up at the beginning of this year. It was worth it--not glossing over the subtraction.
Also wanted to mention Reflex Math, which I learned about on these boards. It's $35/year, which I debated about for quite awhile. Totally worth it for my DD. It's an Internet-based, game-based program that really helps a student improve their math facts knowledge. This has been so helpful as we've started the year because she's not wasting brain space and energy on figuring out basic facts. Very important as we begin working with numbers to 10,000 and beyond. I'm not a veteran homsechooler yet, but I just don't think you could ever go wrong with continually improving math facts knowledge. The ability to "make 10's" = very valuable!
One other thing related to your post-- When I was a kid, I learned all addition and subtraction--actually all math--via algorithms. "You write it out this way on paper and do these steps..." I never learned to do math in my head. Through high school, college math, my first career jobs-- I never understood how people arrived at various answers in my field of work so quickly and easily without paper and pen! Since teaching Singapore, it's become almost comically (or tragically, LOL) obvious what I should have learned way back when. Estimation and making 10's are now my friends! :001_smile:
It wasn't until my late 20's...30's?... that I started to understand the importance of estimating and using round numbers, or of using mental math. Singapore is SO strong in this--cementing the mental math aspect. Problems I could never do without a pencil and paper in the past have become so easy for me using mental math. Real-life math problems too--not just DD's math problems. It's very cheesy and cliche that I'm learning right alongside my DC, but it's true.
I can already see that my children are going to have a much easier time with math throughout their schooling years and lives because they're learning mental math at such young ages.
You received a lot of good, specific advice up-post...The only tidbit I'll add (and I think I learned this from someone else who uses Singapore): I try really hard not to assign workbook pages until I think DD is truly ready to complete them independently. I try to teach the given concept so thoroughly that, by the time we arrive at the workbook pages, she can do them herself. We immediately check answers and she corrects any missed ones. This way, I have a high level of confidence that the material was "absorbed". That's not to say it won't be forgotten or we won't have to review--I expect to have to do that over the years. Some days it's hard to not "check that box" if I don't feel we're at a level of understanding of a lesson to complete the workbook pages, but I do try to make sure it's "cemented" before turning her out to do it independently. With some concepts in Singapore, that has equated to slowing way down. Too many questions while doing the workbook pages tells me I did not teach it in a clear, understandable way or that she is just not ready to fully grasp it yet. This approach requires slowing down sometimes or going deeper, but I think, for us, it's worth it. YMMV.
Just wanted to encourage you to stick with it! I'm not a mathy person or an expert in anything even remotely related to math, but I think Singapore is awesome and I can see how it would set a person up to truly understand numbers down the road.
ETA: I'll be coming back to this to re-read some of the longer posts above...great, detailed info on how to get these concepts across! Glad you brought this up, OP--
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Signed in to say I have a Subaru and am 5'3, ~120 pounds. Sometimes we have taken 2 adults in the front (a driver and a passenger) and I have had to sit between the 2 carseats (not huge ones, BTW) in the back. The leg room is not the problem. It's the shoulder and hip room. It's almost impossible to sit all the way back because the space between the carseats is not enough for the shoulders. I'm a slender build, so if one of your teens is very small, it's a possibility, but it's not at all comfortable. I wouldn't want to sit that way beyond 20 minutes or so. It doesn't really feel safe because you have to lean forward or at an angle the whole time. Maybe if one of your children in the carseats is going to graduate to a narrower booster soon, it would work for a bit. Otherwise, I wouldn't plan on that long-term.
OK in a pinch, but not great for a normal way of getting around town. I get the finances thing so I think it's great that you're being creative, but for the long-haul, I'd search for something with a bit more room.
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I completely hear what you are saying. I have volunteered at my children's schools so much, that I was offered jobs at 3 different schools. I know there are a few parents who seem to take advantage of the various systems in place and other parents who carry a vast amount of the load. It is that way in these situations and everywhere in life. There will always be takers and always be givers.
I would like to point out something that you have no idea about, because I didn't put it in my post.
I am a guardian to a special needs 9yo, who takes wayyyyyyyy more work than a typical kid. Her psychiatrist, and behavior therapist, who specialize in kids who on the higher needs of mental health care, have both said that she is beyond the normal range of what is considered a 'difficult child. She can't go to daycare without a personal assistant because of her issues. I have to pay daycare AND a personal staff for her. She needs the opportunity to be with normal kids otherwise she would just stay home with the private staff. My 21yo son is a youth pastor and is her personal staff. She can't attend a regular school, even in a supported classroom, due to her behaviors. She has to attend a fully locked down school, that even the parents have to be buzzed into the front lobby. DD9 has been working really hard this summer on her behaviors and had earned the freedom to attend VBS, unassisted this year. (VBS isn't stressfull, so it wouldn't set her off like a school environment). Unfortunately, our church is not offering VBS this year. This particular church where she attended, is a church that has teemed up with our church on occasion. In fact, they just sent their kids to our churches High school summer camp....where my son volunteered as staff for 6 days of a 5 day camp. While he was away, I used a weeks vacation from work to cover his role with her. This week I am working and again taking next week off to cover for him being gone for a second week. His two weeks vacation this year, are both spent running summer camps, and my two weeks are filling in for him.
This next week, he is the camp director AND head counselor at kids camp for grades 3-6. Again, he will get gone 6 full days, and then come home to his normal duties on Sunday as well. He has been working on summer camp programming all summer long....unpaid, as a volunteer.
During the normal week, he is a primary roll in Awanas, and the Wednesday Jr High youth program which is after AWANAS on Wednesday and runs in the summer as well.. On Sundays, he has been the head of the 3-6 age group for years. Aside from Awanas, he always writes his own material and spends 3-4 hours every Saturday working on Sunday programming. He is at Every youth event for grades 3-Jr High. He heads many of them. He has spent countless hours writing material to lead main service when other pastors were on vacation.
The person who was getting the break this week wasn't me sitting and sipping lattes. It was my son, who was at home, working on the Kids Camp programming, for the 6 hours she attended. Kids Camp is a grades 3-6 kids summer sleep away camp, to which the same kids from both churches and the community are all invited to. He doesn't just volunteer for VBS, his education (BA in Theology and Pastoral Ministry and 1/2 way on his MA in Pastoral Ministry) and passion is being a youth pastor.
I do not attend church on a regular basis. I do know that our home church, nor the churches I attended growing up, do not send people to random visitors homes. They may call or mail invitations, but not in person. That is why it seemed odd to me. Just my own personal experiences. That is why I asked.....and I found out that it is common and I was fine with that answer.
What the sweet person who dropped off the invitation in person doesn't know, is that the invitation Set My Daughter OFF. We hadn't prepared her for the extra invitation because we didn't know they would do that, and when I had to tell her we wouldn't be attending the new church on Sunday, she was Furious with me. She is at her Bio-dads every Sunday 30 minutes away, without a car, and they don't attend church so it isn't even a possibility. We had talked about it ahead of time about what they may say during VBS and that was clear to her, but due to her ASD, a knock and invitation at the door was different. The nice person who knocked wouldn't have known it was going to cause a problem and when they left our house they saw a super excited, 9yo girl who wanted to attend their church. It wasn't until I got home later and explained to her that we already have a home church, and that she isn't even around on Sundays to attend anyways, that I got to deal with the explosion.
So yep, I get it. I do understand that that 20% of the people do 90% of the work, but not all work is the same. And we all have things that we put effort into. I'm a foster parent and volunteer in schools. DS is a youth pastor who easily puts in 40 hours a week most of the year for the youth in his church and other churches. Your right, it isn't VBS, but if everyone tried to put in a small amount of effort everywhere, I really don't think those programs would benefit. I think that a group of focused and experienced volunteers are much more useful. Besides, as an experienced volunteer do you really want to add more on your plate, training a bunch of volunteers each year, who won't be back the next year, and may not even be Christians? Do you want those potential strangers, untrained, un-vetted volunteers saying who-knows-what to the kids at the VBS program? I wouldn't!
If you want your VBS to only be for people who want to volunteer at it, then maybe ask if you can start a CO-OP VBS instead of an outreach. Or only offer it to the parents who have logged the prerequisite amount of hours in the church.
To me VBS is an outreach. It isn't a tally sheet logging volunteer time for the adults. It is a time for kids to have fun and realize that going to church and working on your faith can be done outside of Sunday services. It is a time to give the kids a chance to focus on a bit of spiritual growth and a time to invite others along for the VBS too.
I thought it was presumptuous for someone to show up on my doorstep, but now I know it is normal. It just isn't what we are used to and next time, if she goes again, I will call ahead and explain that visits and invitations are best sent to us in the mail, so we can screen them for potential behavior triggers before she is aware of them. Of course said very kindly and nicely. And only due to dd's special needs.
I just want to clarify that I am not taking your post personally, like I said, I understand it well. But, I did want to clarify that just because you may see someone drop off a child at VBS and come back with a Latte stain on their shirt, it doesn't mean that they aren't heavily vested in raising a great village of children, and that they aren't ardent volunteers. They just may have a different calling that you do. When you walk in to my child's school and are met with clean tables and nice, organized bulletin boards....that someone just spent 4 hours there getting 2 years worth of glue residue of the table, and hand cutting those 50 paper flowers and "Welcome Back" letters. Or when you child is in the youth program at church, remember that my son just spend 4 hours on Saturday night, working on that new material that engaged your child and played his heart out with the kids at AWANA games.
Tap, I am going to have to re-read this tomorrow. Thank you for sharing about your life because it's given me a lot to think about. I think I'll go cry now.
I assumed a lot of things about your post. Bad, bad to assume.
I didn't understand why a parent would leave a child with higher needs at an unknown church for 2 days of VBS and then be frustrated someone stopped by with a craft. I thought you entrusted them with your child (one of our most precious gifts ever) but then did not want to encounter them later in life on your doorstep and that made me upset. I made assumptions about you.
And now I get it.
And I've experienced the creepy stalker-type pastor on our doorstep as well, so I got your question from that angle.
I think you might be opening a door for me to change my relationship with others at church. Thank you. I'm sorry for making assumptions about you.
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She seemed to say that if you are using VBS, you need to volunteer. she even gave a suggested amount of time, based on how long your child is in VBS, and said paying for it isn't enough. Seemed pretty clear.
That's not entirely what I was trying to say. I was just writing about how I think of giving time, talent, treasure: giving some amount of time or help--and arriving at an amount that is do-able for any given person/family/situation. I was stating options, ideas. As in, 10% is very small (but, no, not do-able for all people). I can think of many examples in which VBS could be a valuable ministry to many who cannot volunteer or who would choose not to volunteer:
- single parents with little to no support who could really use a break
- the family whose child/sibling has dealt with severe illness for several years and is worn thin with appointments/stress
- a mom whose husband travels a lot
- someone who's moved to an area and wants to check a church out without committing
- parents of newborns or young children who can't attend
...OK, I'm going to stop here but the list could go on and on
And sometimes I fit in to some of those categories and, as I wrote before, I am torn about helping out. It's not convenient, I'm maxed out, and I don't want to do it, but if I'm not willing to pitch in with my kids' activities, should I expect others to? (Not being provocative here; I am truly trying to figure this out in this stage of life.)
ktgrok, I've particularly gotten a lot out of many posts you've written on religion here on the WTM, so I am sorry that I wrote anything that would make you feel put down or accused. That was not my intention but I can see how you would take what I wrote that way. I was not gracious or considering others' lots at the time.
I need to consider my words more carefully next time and possibly not hit "Post" on something I'm particularly fired up about.
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Um, so back from a long day of outdoor work and being out-of-town and I read through the thread.
I'm sorry for being a judgy jerk this morning. My venting was misplaced--wrong thread for these particular thoughts. When I hit the "Post" button, a tiny thought came that maybe I should not have posted my response and should've just deleted it or started a s/o post about VBS. I was rushing to get out the door and maybe next time I will stop and listen to the small thought and not post. I hoped to add to the discussion and fear I've derailed it and hurt others.
This makes me sad:
All this judgement is one reason I rarely become involved in church activities.
If you met me IRL, I hope you would not feel judged by me. I am often loving, warm, accepting, encouraging. Sometimes I bottle up my frustrations about ministry and people stuff and today I let it out here on the internet. I have felt a lot of judgment via church activities, so I am sad that I was the person who perpetuated that today. I'm sorry and I hope you don't allow my comments about VBS to turn you away from volunteering at a/your/any church. I didn't realize I was being judgmental and don't really think of myself that way so...it is both hard and good to see what you wrote. I need to evaluate and change my heart.
Amazingly, one person heard what I was trying to say. I guess I can also work on writing more clearly, LOL.
I heard something very different. I heard, "Please don't think invested vbs people are creepy because some of us pour a lot of time, money, energy and commitment into the ministry. It's an outreach, so if you don't want to be reached, please reconsider participating. We love what we do, but to be considered creepy or to be used (for other than outreach purposes) is hurtful." That's what I heard.
I was pretty naive with the first few VBSs I helped with. I went in with good will and thought other parents were going to pitch in too to make it this awesome thing for all children and adults involved. I'm an idealist. It ended up being a very small group that ran around to stressfully cover bases while the majority of parents truly did not seem to consider pitching in. Many refused to help, even when they were asked to cover fairly minor parts or assisting roles. At the time, I had a nursing baby and a toddler who was not old enough to participate, so that just added to the stress. I probably should not have helped with that ministry at the time, in hindsight.
IME, many parents treated the VBSs like a daycare. The rates charged didn't come close to covering the costs of supplies or curriculum purchased. That was "subsidized" by the church from tithes, so, again, a small percentage of people sacrificing for the larger good. I'm cool with that to an extent, but maybe I have set poor boundaries and have let resentment set in--given too much away to an unhealthy point for myself and my family.
My thoughts were along these lines and you are wise:
But when all our VBS slots filled up with only church children and 3/4 of the parents did nothing but drop the kids off - we are talking not even donating supplies - the resentment was just too much and it completely clouded out any benefit of my serving. If you can't do it with a joyful heart it's not right for you at the moment.
when I found myself being more mad than happy about helping with it I stepped back. It was an excellent choice!I have served in other ministries that I'm much better-suited for and loved them. I showed up "rain or shine" and never experienced resentment because I was so happy to give what was helpful and needed. It was a joy--no matter what other people did or didn't do. Obviously, I cannot currently offer what is good and right for VBS right now.
I suggest (gently) that next year you just take a break from VBS. 'Cause you sound burned out. I understand some of the frustration you're venting; I've felt it too and I didn't like it. I don't believe people should only volunteer in areas where they feel particularly talented or "led;" sometimes we do things simply because they need to be done. But we should feel some joy and/or satisfaction from it. VBS isn't necessary, and there is nothing wrong with taking a year (or more) off.
I talked to my DH about this thread as we were driving today. He said the real issue is I've never been called to do VBS. He pretty strongly-but somewhat-jokingly said he's forbidding me from doing it after this year and he's right. But I'm not sure I can say no when asked to help because I do want my children to participate. Feel like I should be willing to pitch in because I can and am able. I'm very torn about this, especially as--in the churches we've been in anyway--there never seem to be enough volunteers willing to carry out children's ministries.I would like to respond to and clarify thoughts on another post on the 1st page---
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Have you ever successfully changed something about yourself that is not under your conscious control?
in The Chat Board
Posted
Ditto here--bad posture in upper back/shoulders, since high school or younger. My parents barked a lot about it but I never seemed to change it longer than their barking, LOL. Can I recommend something that seems totally unrelated, but, for me, has fixed the posture issue?
Swimming! Total body workout that's very low-stress on the joints.
I tried for many years to "be more aware" and to change my posture by habit, but if I got distracted or busy, my posture would just return to where it had been. I'd do stretching/yoga/etc. and, while all of that was good in the moment, it never corrected posture over the long term or even later in the day. I think there's a lot of value in stretching, and I still do it often (ideally daily)...it just never resulted in a change in posture for me. I did play a lot of sports in high school and college and was fit, but none of them were especially demanding upper-body-wise. So just any type of exercise doesn't necessarily equate to better posture.
I started swimming 3-4 times a week, an hour each session, coached (so a hard workout). The effect on posture has been amazing and I think it's all related to core strength and upper body strength. I've never had better posture and I'm close to 40! I don't even think about it. My husband notices it and it's easier to stand up straighter. If I miss a week, my posture starts to head back to where it was. I can see a difference. The swimming = more shoulder and upper-body workout than I've ever found elsewhere but it's fun and not grueling.
My DD's posture is not looking great. She spends a lot of time doing detailed things and reading, which creates slouching and shoulders rolling forward. Now I nag like my parents did, but it's not producing anything lasting. I'm trying to get her to do more full-body exercise like biking and I'm signing her up for a season of swimming. I think if she can develop upper-body strength and tighten her core, those shoulders/upper back will naturally go back into a better position.
If swimming's not a possibility or your style, maybe you can find other full-body workouts that focus on upper-body strength--especially the shoulders: rock wall climbing? Certain types of more-demanding horseback riding where the shoulders are engaged/a good core workout (obviously not just trail riding)? Old-fashioned pull-ups, though those never worked well for me. Also, for me, it's key to have a coached workout with other people; otherwise I wouldn't push myself as hard.
Good for you for continuing to work on things...it's never to late in life to improve! My parents are aging now and the #1 thing in their favor health-wise is that they stay disciplined to exercise every day! Keep moving!