Melabella
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Posts posted by Melabella
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Congratulations! But, mostly, I can't believe your son is a senior already!
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amathis229, my daughter is a first-year student at UGA this year. I will share our experience.
As my husband's entire family and I graduated from Auburn University, my daughter never considered attending UGA or GA Tech. She really wanted to attend a private liberal arts school, but that was not to be as we do not qualify for financial aid and cannot possibly afford our EFC. Unfortunately, we didn't truly come to terms with this fact until late in the application process. I made several calls and sent several e-mails to UGA's admissions office and received conflicting answers and little clarity. At the very last minute, she applied to UGA and we weren't sure if she met the requirements or not.
Her ACT composite was in the top 5%, but her Math score alone was not. She had no AP, IB, or SATIIs (the reason she did not apply to Tech). However, she did do a year of full-time dual enrollment at UWG in their honors college. I was concerned she would be rejected though because she did not take a social science DE class until her second semester, so she did not have any CPC verification for that subject before applying. Obviously, she was admitted anyway.
I think if your son is in the top 5% and has some DE or APs in most of the core subjects, then he will likely get in. However, UGA is definitely much more selective than it was when I applied, or even just 5 or 10 years ago.
If your son does decide on UGA, be aware that the honors college application is due early in the fall and is very selective. Alternatively, he may be interested in the Franklin Residential College which is a program for students in a liberal arts major. The FRC students all live in Rutherford Hall and have special programs and extra access to and involvement with professors.
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I was surprised to hear that any state flagship would be so restrictive.
Here is what the requirements are:
https://www.admissions.uga.edu/prospective-students/first-year/home-educated
"If a student is home-educated or attends a non-accredited high school, he or she must demonstrate very high academic ability by having earned an SAT or ACT score equal to or above the average scores of the first-year students admitted to UGA for the prior Fall term. The student must also be able to validate completion of all CPC subject areas through submission of the following:
Official scores from the SAT or ACT (for math and English only—see below), SAT II, International Baccalaureate (IB) and/or Advanced Placement (AP) exams;
Coursework for credit that appears on an official college or an accredited high school transcript; and/or,
An SAT or ACT score in the top five percent of college-bound seniors nationally in order to satisfy the English and mathematics portions of the CPC."
So according to this, a top five percent SAT score is just one of the ways to fill the requirements. If the student took a DE, AP, IB, or SAT subject test in English or math, then you do not need the scores to be that high.
It still seems like a huge pain compared to some other state schools, though.
Actually, the unaccredited homeschool student needs to score in the top 5% AND must also have DE, AP, IB, or SATIIs to validate Georgia's CPC (core curriculum) requirements.
However, there is wiggle room...see my next post.
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The BS/MS program sounds interesting and like a good fit for her goals. My husband also combined two completely different majors in undergrad, chemistry and art, and he enjoyed the opportunity to take many non-science classes as an undergrad, even though he ultimately ended up with a science career. I hope your daughter has a great first year at her college!
Thank you. She's not so much your typical STEM student as she is a true liberal arts student with a strong passion for Chemistry. She says that she wants ALL the degrees.
Here's the program overview for anyone interested:
The Bachelor of Science in Pharmaceutical Sciences and Master of Science in Pharmacy dual degree program at the University of Georgia (UGA) provides students with an interdisciplinary education with strong training in the pharmaceutical sciences enhanced by specialization in either regulatory science or bench research in the pharmaceutical and biomedical sciences. Graduates of this program will have the strong knowledge and skills typical of our BS program students combined with greater practical skills. The program’s focus on drug discovery and development underscores results in well-rounded students who will have developed a specialization that will distinguish them from typical students and enhance their career path development.
Currently, the BS/MS dual degree program is offered for:
- Students currently enrolled in the B.S. Program in the Pharmaceutical Sciences.
- Students desiring increased exposure to bench research in the areas of pharmacology, medicinal chemistry or pharmaceutics or advanced coursework and research in the regulatory sciences.
The BS/MS dual degree program is the first of its kind in the nation. Students enrolled in this program will complete a 174-hour curriculum in 5 years (including two summer semesters).
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I don't see any problem with waiting on the bio and physics until her second year. That way, if she decides to, it will also be easier to take the full year of both courses. Two science/math courses and two other courses seems like a good balance given her interests.
My husband's area of specialization for his PhD was synthetic organic chemistry and almost everyone in his lab except him went on to work for pharmaceutical companies doing R & D. If she hasn't already, she may want to explore the different jobs available in the pharmaceutical industry for those with different levels of degrees. Depending on her goals, it also might be worth looking at a more general undergrad degree such as chemistry or biochemistry. One of my best friends from high school has a PhD in Pharmacology and has worked in pharmacy R & D his entire career. His undergrad majors were biology and chemistry. Both he and my husband were also accepted to med school, but both opted for PhDs instead. If she's thinking about grad or professional school, it might be better to specialize then and stay more general in undergrad in order to keep lots of options open.
Great. That is what I was thinking...she could do Bio 1 and Physics 1 first semester and Bio2 and Physics 2 second semester.
She initially was going to major in Chemistry with the intention of getting a PhD. The BS/MS program at her school, which is the only one or one of few in the country, seems to be a direct path to R & D labs. Based on her limited research into the industry, those with PhDs typically work in academia or in managerial roles with lots of computer/desk work, meetings, etc. She does not want that. She very much wants to be in the lab, hands-on. She also wants a high/good paying job though.
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I would not take a year off between chem and ochem. Then and again, if she's planning on taking calc 2 at some point, I wouldn't take off between that either.
Could she do OChem1, Bio1, French 3xxx, and freshman seminar, for a grand total of 12 hours? Or maybe add in calc 2 to make it 15-16?
And then OChem2, Physics1, more French?, linguistics, psych/history/whatever in Spring?
I'm not entirely sure what her future career plans are, but even if she doesn't want to go to medical school, she might want to go to grad school to be a pharmacist, or to become a pharmaceutical researcher, or w/e.
Okay, so she is leaning toward starting with OChem her first year. I guess she will need to take Calc 2 first semester as well, since she just had Calc 1. In that case, I really would not want to throw Bio and Physics in there too. Any reason why it would be a bad idea to wait until sophomore year to do Bio and Physics?
Ideally, I want to cap her at 15 hours per semester since that is what her scholarship covers.
She thinks she wants to do pharmaceutical research/drug development. The university has a 4/5 BS/MS program that looks promising if she gets accepted into it.
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One advantage of doing bio and physics first and then orgo the next year is that she might be in those classes with more students at the same place in her major. After taking orgo his first year, my son wanted to take physics during the summer, so he could stay on track with his orgo classmates and friends and take physical chemistry his sophomore year. We were opposed due to his brutal first year and taking linear algebra, multivariate calculus, and differential equations as co-requisites rather than pre-requisites, and thankfully he ultimately decided against it due to summer class five days per week and Saturday exams for 12 weeks. And he did make new friends and find new study partners when he took physical chemistry his junior year.
Right. I am a little concerned about this, but at this point she is so out-of-sync with the other freshman that it probably doesn't matter.
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What else is she taking?
I see no reason not to do bio and physics in the same semester, but since both courses have a lab, I would prefer a freshman to stay below 16 hours.
She'll be taking 3000 level French courses, an intro Linguisitcs course, a 1-credit freshman seminar, possibly Calc 2 and/or Bio-Statistics, and possibly up to 3 intro humanities courses (psych, history, etc.). The rest of her credits are fairly movable and she could take between 12 and 15 hours each of her first two semesters.
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My son took organic chemistry his freshman year after taking general chem his junior year of high school at the local LAC. He thought the extra year between wasn't a good thing, although he did fine. Both his lecture and lab were full four credit courses and just the lab alone usually took about 40 hours per week, as it was the first time they were offering a special lab for majors. He thought the lecture portion might have actually been easier that the non-major Orgo course though, as they had an excellent prof who was an amazing teacher. At least at his school, adding physics would have been o.k., but combining with bio would have been brutal. The four quarter intro bio sequence was known to be a major weed out and the three quarter honors even worse. He said in the regular bio they covered more material in more depth in one quarter than the LAC did in a semester.
Does she know any students currently attending who she can talk to about the science classes before registering? Personally, I wouldn't advice all three science courses at once, but it's hard to know without knowing more about the actual courses at her school. If she doesn't plan to repeat general chem, I'd probably go with orgo this year and the bio and physics next year or if doing two sciences this year, adding the one she feels most confident about. Or if it's offered, get Calc2 done in the fall with orgo and do the other sciences next year.
I definitely think it would be worth it to take a full year of both bio and physics to keep lots of doors open.
My son did something somewhat similar to your daughter in that he went in with sophomore status, but always planned to take four years to graduate, and his scholarship covered four years. He was combining a chemistry major with very humanities based honors college requirements, and also wanted some room for upper level electives in other unrelated areas of interest.
Edited to add, does her school have student major advisors? My son's did, although he never used them due to having older friends in his major. But they could help give her the straight scoop on the relative difficulty of some of the classes.
The lectures for these classes are all 3 credit hours with 1 credit hour labs. The labs are actually about 3 hours in scheduled time, though.
Unfortunately, she does not know anyone at this school yet. They do have major advisors, but not until they reach junior status/are beginning their major coursework.
My dd isn't worried about taking OChem first, but I am. I think she is underestimating the stress of transitioning to residential college and living on your own. I know she is ready and capable of going away to college, but I'm just not sure if starting off with a brutal course like OChem is setting her up for success. On the other hand, like your son said, waiting a year between Gen Chem and OChem is not ideal either. Ugh!
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If she postpones organic chem until her second year, is she guaranteeing two more years after that? This would make me lean toward going ahead and doing it this year. It also doesn't commit her to four years if she decides not to double major later.
Unless she does Bio, Physics, and OChem her first year or decides to drop a STEM major altogether, she'll have to do another four full years. The STEM majors (those that interest her anyway) require specific sequencing with most classes only offered fall or spring, so there's no way of getting around 2 more years after OChem.
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Yes, each of these classes has a lab component. They are all the more difficult versions for STEM majors.
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Bio 1 & physics 1 would likely be ok together. Lots of work though.
Hmm,calc based physics or algebra?
That was typical back in my day for my Bio degree.
They are probably both only offered first semester.
I'd hold off on O Chem til next year. But it may only be offered in sequence starting in the fall anyways.
It is a calc based physics? She has taken calc 1 and will take calc 2 either Spring of this coming year or sometime next year.
All of these courses are offered in both fall and spring. It's the state flagship university.
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Due to a bad experience last year, I no longer trust college advisers to do their job well. So, I am turning to you wonderful and brilliant ladies for advice as I help my DD register for her first semester of "away" college. She was dual-enrolled full time for her senior year of high school last year, and will be entering college with 36 credit hours. Her current plan is to double major in pharmaceutical sciences and French or Linguistics (I know, totally unrelated, but she has a passion for both). She will be receiving a state scholarship that pays for 127 course hours or until she receives her first bachelor's degree. Since she will be double majoring in two different fields, she will likely still need four full years to graduate even though she will be entering with Sophomore status.
For the pharmaceutical sciences degree she needs the following sciences courses prior to taking the major-related courses
Gen Chem 1 - completed this past year
Gen Chem 2 - completed this past year
Intro to Bio 1
Intro to Physics 1
Organic Chem 1
Organic Chem 2
Of these classes, she has completed only Gen Chem 1 and Gen Chem 2. A second semester of Bio and Physics are optional, but not required, as they can count toward her major electives or she could take other courses instead. One benefit of taking a full year of Bio and Physics is that she'd then have the classes she needs if she decides to go to medical school. At any rate, the immediate need is to complete the classes listed above.
What is the best course sequence from here? Should she take Organic Chem next year since she just completed Gen Chem this past year or should she save OChem for the following year? Would it be doable to double up on these science classes and take two per semester (i.e., Intro to Bio and Organic Chem or Intro to Bio and Intro to Physics)?
I'm concerned about having her start with OChem, which is notoriously difficult, her first semester while adjusting to residential college life. On the other hand, she's a good student and she's fresh from Gen Chem this past year.
If it makes any difference, she will also be taking a 3000 level (Junior) French class, an Intro Linguistics class, and a 1 credit freshman seminar course.
I hope the above makes sense and that one of you wise ladies can provide some valuable insight!
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Is there a reason to purchase a diploma rather than make one yourself?
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Another one who wants to emphasize that very few colleges cost less than $10,000 for room and board. Truman State is one that might be a financial safety. To really get below $10,000, for most schools you will need more than full-tuition awards.
Fwiw, my Dd thought she wanted small. After visiting depts, sitting in on classes, overnights, etc., she decided that she absolutely did not want a small campus.
Yes, exactly. No private schools came in under $10K without full-tuition plus and probably at least the Stafford. I wish I had realized that sooner. Of course, when we started the process we thought we'do be able to afford closer to $15K to $20K. Our situation changed along the way. My DD also changed her mind about size of schools over the last year. Attending a mid-size University for DE her senior year changed her perspective.
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DD has chosen, rather begrudgingly, UGA. It is the one school she always said she'd never consider. She wanted a small LAC,but they just weren't affordable for us even with some generous merit aid. She's planning to major in chemistry or pharmaceutical sciences and French.
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We are in the same situation of not qualifying for financial aid but needing to keep costs to $10,000 or less. My dd has good scores but not National Merit good. Of the schools on your list, my daughter applied to Centre and Wofford. Wofford gave the most merit aid of all the schools to which she applied (and we never even visited there), and Centre was second to that. Neither came in under $10,000 though even with the aid and Stafford loan. About double, in fact. She also applied to Furman, Berry, and UAH which others have mentioned. Furman was my daughter's top choice but the most expensive, sadly. They give good aid to a select few - about 8 in-state and 8 out of state students per year. She did get full tuition at UAH which put it right at the $10,000 to $11,000 mark before Stafford. To afford a small LAC, your daughter will most likely need a full-tuition scholarship and the Stafford loan.
In the end, it came down to UAH and UGA for my daughter, neither the small LAC she wanted. They just weren't affordable for us unless we dropped to much lower tiered schools, and she felt that wasn't in her best interest.
Your dd may have better results though since she seems to have stronger scores.
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Mine is in the same boat. She is on Spring break this week. She had a mini-meltdown Sunday night when I tried to talk to her about her choices for next year. It ended with me agreeing not to bring up anything about college until Friday when she has to make a decision on whether or not to let one opportunity go.
She's taking 17 DE hours this semester and working 10 hours as a TA. Yeah, she's stressed.
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That is lovely that she was accepted despite their worries about the requirements! You might just want to check that there isn't going to be a hitch with her officially matriculating. Sometimes the people who do the admitting and the people who issue the diplomas don't communicate well with each other.
Nan
Good point, Nan. I will verify.
However, I probably worded my original post poorly. It's not that she did not meet their requirements (she well exceeded them actually), we just didn't have the SAT II, AP tests, or college courses that they want as proof for unaccredited homeschoolers in ALL of the CPC (core curriculum requirements) courses. In Georgia, high schoolers have to take an end of course test in certain subjects to pass the course and graduate. UGA is essentially using the AP or SAT II tests as verification that those courses were taken/passed. My dd took no AP or SAT II tests. Her ACT English and Math scores met the requirement for verification in those subjects, but we did not have any outside tests or dual enrollment courses for the Social Sciences requirement.
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Dd received her acceptance to UGA today. For what it's worth, she is an unaccredited homeschooler and there was some question as to whether she met their course requirements since she had no SAT Subject Tests. The admissions office could not say whether she would be considered or not, but I guess she was!
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nm...double post
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8FilltheHeart and Gr8lander, I concur. Unfortunately, this realization is too late for us. DD crossed many schools off her list due to their homeschool requirements and is now regretting that decision. Also, she has been accepted at all schools to which she applied with merit aid. I think she did not aim high enough, frankly.
I just hope this post will help future WTM folks.
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I wish I had known or thought it was possible. Dd did not apply to several schools that interested her because of that requirement. She should have taken a few of the tests, but life got messy.
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Congrats Gratia! Wonderful news!
DD has received acceptances to Wofford and Rhodes both with merit scholarships. I don'the believe I've mentioned her merit scholarships for her previous acceptances, but she received them everywhere she has applied so far.-
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Homeschool applications in Georgia!
in The College Board
Posted
Yes, I wish we had looked at USC earlier. My dd received about half price offers at all of the private schools to which she applied, but that was still significantly more than a state school since she qualified for Zell and we did not qualify for any other financial aid. Only University of Alabama-Huntsville was cheaper, but UGA had a better program for her major.
Yes, 93% was the qualifying mark for my daughter for Zell, which I believe was a 29 on the ACT. I'm not sure about the SAT as my Dd did not take it. Here are a few tips...
1.) You will not be able to apply for Zell (or Hope) until your child has graduated from high school, which means the chosen school will not be able to include the Zell scholarship in your financial aid awards until after that time.
2.) Be sure to check your chosen school's cut-off for receiving Zell/Hope verification and be sure your child graduates at least a month prior to ensure enough time for processing.
3.) You will have to send in the student's official final high school transcript and their test scores directly from ACT or SAT. SAT scores can be electronically submitted, but ACT scores must be mailed, so allow adequate time.
4.) Zell pays for the full amount of tuition, but not fees. UGA has over $2000 in fees per year.
5.) I found UGA's Net Price Calculator to be very accurate.