shburks
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Posts posted by shburks
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Maybe a silly question, but we're heading into our first year homeschooling and I keep seeing how everyone uses whiteboards! I can't, for the life of me, figure out how I would use one.
I have one kid (heading into 5th grade), and I don't see how I would use it.
Can y'all tell me why you found them necessary? :)
Thanks!
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Zaccaro has a bunch of books, it's hard to figure out where they all fit! I have found that Real World Algebra is a great PreAlgebra/early Algebra supplement. It meshes very well with JA and with AoPS PreA and provides extra (really good) practice and an alternative way of explaining things, which can be very helpful. We did part of Challenge Math, that would come before RWA during offical "preAlgebra" or even 5th-6th grade math. The Problem solving book is really good, too, and I thought that it was important for my child to work through to help her with strategies for tackling Alcumus/AoPS type problems. It's also a kind of 6th grade math/preA supplement, it has lots of problems of various types, not broken down by the kind of operation you perform, but grouped by what kind of problem-solving technique may be useful. This kind of challenge - out of context word problems - helps me to feel sure that my kid has really mastered the math.
I'm not at all trying to suggest that you would need to add these if you are using AoPS and the Arbor Center books! I feel like we're doing too much, maybe, but I'm just trying to be sure that her Pre-Algebra preparation is rock solid, and my dd really clicked with the Zaccaro books this year. She really clicked with everything math this year, so I probably could back off and streamline things at this point!
Oh, gosh! Thanks so much for helping me understand Zaccaro books! I was already planning to use one of them alongside JA but wasn't sure which one to use!
Like you, I really want to make sure pre-A is solid. He's ready for pre-A, but at the same time I don't want to give him a year that's too light and doesn't prepare him for Algebra and maths to come later.
I really appreciate your insight. Thank you. I may hunt you down after we finish JA and ask these same questions all over again! :)
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In a perfect world, with no financial constraints, and with a 10 year old starting preAlgebra, I think my tentative plan would be to do all 3 Arbor Center books and then do AoPs Intro to Algebra. JA is nice preparation for the discovery method used in AoPS, and a kid might be fine going straight from JA to AoPS, but I would plan to make him pass the PreAlgebra section of Alcumus first.
That's what my dd is spending this summer working on: Alcumus PreA, Zaccaro's Real World Algebra, and Zaccaro's Problem Solving Genius. Then we'll jump into AoPS Algebra. I decided to go that route largely for the financial reasons mentioned in the above post.
Thanks! That IS my tentative plan! He's very bright and loves math (as I guess is apparent if you're starting a child in pre-A at that age), so he may be fine going straight from JA to AoPS but I don't want to push him too hard. I am making notes of your suggestions. I had looked at the Zaccaro's books but wasn't sure where to start. Are those appropriate for AFTER pre-A then? I'm also not familiar with Alcumus but I'm going to look that up as well.
Finances aren't a HUGE consideration; not that we're rolling in money (who is?) but I have an only child and have been sending him to private school for the last three years, so I'm figuring as long as I stay within that budget, I'm saving us money!
Thanks so much!
Edited: So, I see Alcumus is an online part of AoPS! Going to see what all that means!
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I haven't tried looking at google books, but you can see very extensive samples at the Arbor Center for Teaching site.
http://www.arborcenterforteaching.org/publications/books/jousting-armadillos/
I wasn't happy about the price given the size of the books (and knowing that we'd need two in a year) but what tipped me against using them finally was lining the lesson-level scope and sequence out in a spreadsheet against the other Algebra programs I have, and noticing some pretty significant holes. Maybe not holes, actually, to be fair - if you lay the S&S of all *three* books out against AoPS, it covers mostly the same material - but some of that (ch. 1-number system 2- expressions and equations ,3 - one variable linear equations ,6 - Ratios and Percents ,7 - Proportions and 9 - Introduction to Inequalities) of AoPS was "covered" in JA, and I know for sure, having both books, that AoPS coverage is way more robust, and that we are by no means done with those topics after having done them in JA. Doing them in JA was the prealgebra introduction to the topics, but now we need to do them again, more deeply.
So that if I compare all *three* books, costwise, to AoPS - $180 vs. $60 - and in terms of coverage - much less robust - it kind of became a no-brainer.
Look, I'm a huge fan of JA, especially as an intro to algebra for young kids who are ready to start early but who maybe aren't ready for a full-on high school level algebra text. But from where I sit now - admittedly, at the beginning of the algebra journey - I'm not sure that it's the most cost-effective and efficient way to get where I want to go. I could absolutely see, if money were no object, running through all three Arbor books and then doing a more standard algebra 1 text, but whew, that is costly!
I'm planning to do JA with my son this fall (age 10 but more than ready for pre-A). While it's still a ways off, I'm curious to know what we should do after JA. I was leaning toward AoPS Algebra but wonder if I should use the other two Arbor Center books since he'll be on the young side. Do you have an opinion on that specifically?
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So happy reading all this! I getting ready to order it right now!
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Shburks - How comfortable are you with Latin? If you aren't, get the DVDs.
How much grammar has your "rising 5th grader" done? If a lot, then you should be fine with First Form. If not a ton, you might want to start with LC1.
You can certainly adapt First Form for a 5th grader. Don't try to cram an entire lesson full of work into one week. Take your time - watch the DVD, do the chants every lesson day, listen to the audio CD, try the drills (in student book), do a workbook page every day. Pull out the flashcards a couple times a week. It'll take more than a year to get through, but you're not in a hurry are you?
As your kid gets older & more comfortable with Latin, you can increase the pace - two worksheets in a day - maybe eventually getting to the pace of a lesson a week.
RootAnn--I'm fairly comfortable with Latin. I took Latin in high school as did my husband...but that HAS been a few years ago! My son has a good grammar base, but I would say it's his weakest subject being much more of a science/math kid who loves reading and history but really dislikes the grammar side of things!
I do like your thoughts on how to approach FF, but I almost wonder if he would get frustrated with it if he knew we were "taking it slow." He opted to start Latin this year rather than French because he thinks it'll give him a good base for the other languages! I'm not in a hurry, but I feel like he might be...and might frustrate him to know that a particular text is not going to be finished in a year.
Knowing that grammar is his weakest subject and knowing his temperament, I think I've just talked myself into LC1 for this year! If we go through it quicker than I anticipate, I suppose we could start FF after that.
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This post is so timely...I was just coming to ask the same question! 5th grader with NO prior Latin experience. Memoria Press recommended First Form when I emailed them, but it sounds like everyone here is saying to do Latina Christiana first. Is that right?
What about the CDs? Are they necessary? Helpful?
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Just as a quick FYI: Saxon does what's called "integrated geometry," like most non-US math programs do.
While kids are doing basic geometry in Algebra I (pythagorean theorem as an example), the way I've read it, Geometry really isn't hit until AlgebraII and the first half of Advanced Math. That's when credit can be awarded.
I did see that. My concern is that his transcript wouldn't show Geometry unless we absolutely finished the whole series of Saxon, so it just makes me shy away from it!
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I ditto Life of Fred. In DD's case, she was used to workbooks, so Life of Fred gave her practice reading and transferring math to a separate notebook, which was a skill she needed before starting PA more formally, and she LOVES Fred!
Can I ask which Life of Fred book or books you used?
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We found that MUS worked great to get the basics down but was then very watered down after that. Pre-Algebra was on the weaker side, but my child enjoyed it so he did it. Then he started the Alg I. I wanted to love it. MUS had worked so well from the start so we kept hoping it would improve. He switched out half-way through. It wasn't a strong Alg I program, but that also caused it to bore us both. So, though it can be a wonderful step for some kids, it was not a good fit for my child. He switched out and started AoPS Intro to Algebra after that and did well.
As for age, we don't worry too much about that. We're figuring it out as we go. He doesn't do so much math a year, but speeds up and slows down as needed. He started AoPS Intro to Alg at the start of 4th grade. I do think doing AoPS any earlier wouldn't have worked for him due to the maturity. However, I could have spent that MUS Alg I time in 3rd grade doing something like the Key to Alg instead of MUS. He absolutely loved AoPS Intro to Number Theory. So, that's another option. There's also an Intro to Probability course. Neither of those are full year courses, but they're nice to add something. There's far more maths possible that the traditional public school courses out there so I am not concerned.
Thank you!! Great information in here! I'm making sure to take note of these other books you mentioned.
Where did you use AoPS Intro to Number Theory and Intro to Probability? In between something?
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Life of Fred is a great idea! Thanks.
Mom2bee--he's pretty strong overall. I am meeting with his current math teacher today though and I'll ask her that...what might he need work on between now and pre-A. I did note that the author of JA has an account AND he gave out his email address, so contacting him might be a good idea, too.
We're moving to a new state in the middle of the summer, so I don't really want to start with JA quite yet!
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We will begin homeschooling this fall. My son is currently doing BJU 5th grade but is capable of much harder work. Placement tests indicate he's ready for pre-A and after researching and asking questions, I'm leaning toward Jousting Armadillos for fall.
My question is--is there something he can begin working through this summer that could help prep the transition between 5th grade math and pre-A? He really has a good basis and I'm not concerned that he's not ready but I'm just looking for something light that he could work through. Any thoughts?
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I would stay away from MUS and TT for a bright kid. They are some of the weakest HS math programs, and if your kid can do a more challenging program, I would strongly encourage you to do so.
I would start by giving him the ADAM test to see which topics he has mastered and which he has not. Then I would do the Math Mammoth "blue" worktexts for the topics he still needs to master. You can get the entire grades 4-7 bundle at Currclick for $65 and just print out the topics he needs.
MM is all-in-one and self-teaching.
That's what I kept reading. That they weren't strong programs and didn't give a solid foundation to build on for higher maths and poor prep for college. He definitely can do a more challenging program! Can you please tell me what the ADAM test is? I have done the MUS and Saxon placement tests for him and tested as ready for pre-Algebra in both cases.
DS did pre algebra (Math Mammoth 6) for 5th and will do algebra next year in 6th. Don't worry about meeting your son where he is, there is no shortage of math to learn! :).
One of the greatest benefits to homeschooling is the ability to work at your child's pace. There are no artificial limitations on age or levels or so forth. Enjoy it! :)
Thank you. I think I needed someone to tell me this--that there's plenty of math to learn! I was such an average math person myself that those higher maths are foreign to me. DS got his math abilities from my husband who took all kinds of math classes I did not!
I highly recommend EPGY!!! (Education Program for Gifted Youth: Stanford University) Our 1st grader is currently working at a 3rd grade level and loves this program. It's all web based, work at your own pace. Very rigorous and goes all the way up through Algebra. I love that it provides in depth reports for parents and is very reasonable ($135/10 months). Also includes language arts.
Click on Parents---> Open Enrollment.
Thanks! I keep seeing this mentioned, but I'll have to take a look at it. We are part of the Duke TIP program, but I know these work very differently. :)
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So, yeah. My kid can't seem to handle one curriculum for too long. We used the initial sections of Jousting Armadillos first, then switched to AoPS Pre-A - and always Khan Academy. Sometimes we take a break from regular texts and only do Khan. We'll probably go back to JA at some point. My kid always moves forward, but wanders around a bit.
Thanks for sharing this. I think I've just about settled on Jousting Armadillos and maybe doing Zaccaro alongside or something--maybe even doing AOPs pre-A in review once we finish to beef it up a bit before moving on to Algebra I after that. :)
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My 4th grader has worked on a variety of math programs this year - our favorites have been Khan Academy (He always comes back to it. Badges! Variety!) and Jousting Armadillos. He has worked through a couple of chapters of Art of Problem Solving's Pre-Algebra, and we're finding that the pace is too quick for him with his background. He can retain the new concepts well enough to answer some questions, but struggles with long-term retention. We really like the book, though. We're just going to slow down the pace a little and practice some of the tasks on Khan Academy and with the Key to Algebra booklets before moving onto the next chapter. I did look through some Math U See Algebra today and didn't love it. I know it's worked well for some other families, though. Good luck! This is an awkward transition. I'm still hoping Beast Academy 5 will be ready in time for my next kid.
I'm not familiar with Khan Academy at all. I'll have to take a look at that. I have concerns that AOPs might be too quick for my ds, too, maybe more based on his age that anything else. So, are you using Jousting Armadillos AND Khan Academy while also working through AOPs pre-Algebra?
Just a note - Saxon does have a Geometry only course for high school math. I used it with two of my kids and it was just fine. Not that giving you even more options is helpful- sorry about that!
I think it's best to take a look at the various publishers and see which style seems to fit your son best. Math U See and AOPS were both flops here with my mathy kids - not because there is anything wrong with the curriculum, but that these did not fit how my kids learn. Saxon was successful for my kids - both the youngers are "just get it done" kids, but so were Horizons and Teaching Textbooks. Currently, DD12 is using a public school text and is doing well.
I wouldn't look for an "easier" pre-algebra necessarily, but rather one that is at the right level and seems to click with how he learns. As far as doing Algebra in 6th, that works out just fine,too. With these accelereated kids, it's common to start Algebra when they are ready, even if that's ahead of where their age-peers are working.
Good Luck and Enjoy The Ride!
For Saxon Geometry, my understanding is that it is the same material included in Algebra I and II but pulled out into a separate book to get Geometry credit for it. I guess that's not the worst thing ever. It just bugs me for some reason! I also considered Teaching Textbooks, but I just don't know...
Thanks...I appreciate your thoughts on not being concerned about starting Algebra young. I've been so happy to find this board and see that there are other kids like mine who do so well at math and start harder maths earlier.
Don't worry, there are loads more subjects that can be done once you pass algebra 1. I'd recommend, if possible, getting to look at a few books (if nothing else, samples) with your son so you can pick something he finds appealing as well.
I don't know that we have the opportunity to see any of the math books in person. We're moving to Norfolk, VA, this summer, and I think there may be a homeschool store there where I could potentially see some of the books. Samples I can probably come up with. My concern is that he's only 9 and may not know what is appealing to him!!
Both of my kids are in public high schools now (for different reasons), but I homeschooled through Middle Sch. I started both on Saxon, primarily because the style was a good fit for me (taught math the way I learned math). However, due to their different learning styles I ended up using different a curriculum for each.
The Girl ended up liking Saxon very much & she used it through Algebra 2. She's very methodical and needed the constant review. She likes math, but it does not come easy and is very happy that her Sr. year will have none!
The Boy is a completely different story. I think he dreams in math and the constant review in Saxon made him crazy. I let him try several books & he ended up liking Singapore. Started with Primary, then moved into Discovering Mathematics. He really liked the way things were explained & it contained material that allowed him to push beyond the regular lesson. He also supplemented with Kahn 'just for fun.'
I'd let your son look at the options & see what he likes. I would focus first on what's a good fit now and change later if you need to. I found with both of my kids, in multiple areas, their learning styles changed as they aged and the most important thing was to keep them currently engaged. As for the level, in my experience, it's a lot easier to skip through an easy book and move up quickly then to go backwards if the book is too difficult.
Have fun with your math wiz, what a bright future he has. If you haven't already, you should also look into FIRST Robotics. Mine has been heavily involved in since he was about your son's age. Good stuff.
I've taught Algebra I with Saxon before, so I am familiar with it. Like yours, mine loves math and picks up on concepts unbelievably quickly! Someone mentioned that their dc didn't like the constant review, and I think my son would be like that...just give me the concept, give me some problems, let me do them and move on. He really doesn't need that review (at least not right now).
I REALLY appreciate your thoughts here, SWinner, about focusing on what's a good fit now. I keep forgetting that I can change later if needed. Sounds so silly, but I feel like I need to find the right fit NOW for the rest of his homeschooling career! This is only subject where I'm doing this though. i guess I'm concerned about changing methods, but I'm sure he would be fine. Right? :) We're currently in a small town without a lot of options but Norfolk has some Lego Robotics programs and lots of other great things, so I'm excited to be somewhere larger with more options!
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I am still searching for the "right" math program for my son for next year. He is currently in a private school where they use Bob Jones Curriculum. He was grade advanced over 1st grade and is currently in 4th but goes up to 5th grade for math. I'll be homeschooling next year. He's 9. I was originally thinking Math U See or Saxon but now I'm shying away from Saxon because of my concerns about the lack of Geometry only course for high school
I've done a couple of placement tests from some of the math programs. He tested out of Math U See Zeta so would be ready for pre-Algebra. I haven't had him complete the Saxon one yet, but I don't doubt that's where he is. His math teacher says he picks up concepts unbelievably quickly.
Part of me is concerned about starting him too early. If I do pre-Algebra next year (as 5th grade), and then Algebra I the year after, where does that leave us?
Should I do an easier math course for now (say Math U See pre-Algebra and Algebra I and then switch to a harder course like Art of Problem Solving or Jacob's) later almost like a "light Algebra" course and a real Algebra course?
Do I do pre-Algebra and then take a step back to do something else?
I feel very overwhelmed right now, and I'd really love some opinions of someone who has been there and done that with a younger child with a passion AND a strong giftedness in math.
And please don't use too many acronyms! This is all still new to me so I have a hard time figuring out curriculum acronyms.
Thanks!
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I haven't used it, but I will next year too and I bought the kit. I love lab kits, they make sure science gets done! I have used one for the anatomy course and it was very helpful.
Thanks. That's kind of what I was thinking, too. If I have the stuff, I think I'd be more likely to get them done!!
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I'm using it for my oldest. She does it independently...... It is super easy to skip the literature portion. She has only read a couple of their suggestions but we do our own thing there.
She reads the selection, map work, timeline, and some of their activities. We bought the activity workbook but she rarely uses it. Definitely not a must have. Your younger dc might like it. I don't make my dd answer the lesson questions or take the tests either. After each unit, she chooses an important person, event, or place that she has read about in that unit to write about.
Hope you get some suggestions on how to combine children!
Did you not find the activity workbook to be useful? I'm trying to decide if I need it or not.
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I'm planning to use Apologia Astronomy for my son next year, and I'm trying to decide if buying the lab kit is worth it or not. It gets great reviews on CBD. Anyone have opinions or experiences?
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You also aren't the only one who's afterschool supplementing, there are a couple of us not home schooling. :) Welcome to WTM!
Thank you. I'm very excited to start homeschooling next year, and I'm going to have a ton of questions for you all...but today, I'm supposed to be packing to leave for Disney!
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I have a current fourth grade at a private school. We'll be homeschooling starting next year. We grade advanced him over 1st grade and he's excelling in everything. He currently goes up to 5th grade for math.
I've been particularly concerned about math for next year, and I'm coming back soon to ask questions of you all! Just reading through some threads, I've found some math curricula that I wasn't familiar with and see that I'm not the only one who has a young kid ready for pre-A/Algebra. It's such a relief to meet others with similar kids.
Look forward to meeting you all more!
Whiteboards...Are They Necessary?
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
Thank you so much for your perspectives and thoughts! I am a "former" teacher, so I'm certainly used to having one in my classroom where I'd write answers to problems, do examples for math, write out spelling and/or vocab words, work for the day/class, etc, but I was having a harder time finding reasons for homeschooling with one kid! I'm still not convinced I need a large one, but I may change my mind once we get started!
We do have at least 2 small lapboard sized ones that we can use for diagramming, math, etc. but I may look for a slightly larger one, too.
Please tell me what a vinyl cling whiteboard is (assume just what it sounds like) and where would I find one?
Also thanks to the mom who posted the neat example about posting on the back on the door using the shower board! That is awesome!