KJB
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Posts posted by KJB
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The parents could probably be the trustees and have access, but the money wouldn't be reportable as theirs.
I would have the donations made or transferred directly to a checking account held in the minor daughter's name. The parent's would probably have to be on the account but the income would be the child's. Then I would have a debit/credit card connected to the account used to pay medical bills.
I would be clear on the donation website that the money is going to the child to pay for medical and related expenses.
And then, I'd make sure to keep receipts for the child's related expenses, which of course could include expenses outside direct hospital bills.
If the sum is large enough (or frankly, even if it's not), the child could put some of the money into a 529 plan for later if it is expected she'll use it for educational expenses. And if that's the case, I think that could be stated on the donation website as well.
Extra prayers for them today.
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This would actually be worse. The colleges only expect like 5% of the parents' savings to be available to pay for college (per year, that is). But they want pretty much everything that's in the child's name. Never put anything in a child's name if you don't want the colleges just taking it all.
I should ask if they have an HSA. If they did, that would be a good way to keep it off the books and for medical expenses. Not everyone has those, though, and I think it's up to the employer-picked health plan as to whether you have access to one.
Whether or not the money is a gift or not is not the issue - it will be seen as income, and the colleges will want their (quite hefty) share, taxed or not.
I misunderstood. I thought the issue was income counting against the family for the two older children's upcoming university educations. As you mention, the income would count against the 14 year old, but if it belonged to her it wouldn't count against the family for the other children.
Also, it sounds as if the money will be spent over the next few years which will lessen the amount she'll have to claim by the time she is old enough to attend college.
Just a few thoughts I'd have if it were my family. Obviously, a very tough situation.
So sorry for your friend's family. I will definitely say a prayer for them.
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Can the money be donated to and put in the name of the child who will receive the benefit from the money? In other words, if it's the child's income, it should not be counted against the parents. They won't have to claim it if it's not theirs....
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Thanks snowbeltmom!
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A bit off-topic (sorry OP!), but I think I read on the College Board website that the online scores are replacing the printed report. I'm not sure that's accurate, though. :confused1:
They will still get a printed report at the end of January according to the College Board.
From the CB website:
Upcoming DatesJan29Paper PSAT/NMSQT score reports arrive at school
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I kind of think (hope) that we'll get more information when the printed report shows up at the end of January. In the past, they have included a section about how to read the scores. Also, we'll know more when the commended score is released in April.
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Thank you for posting this! :001_smile:
It'll be a long wait until September!
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The University of Hawaii seems to have a summer program. Universities seem to use these programs for recruiting.
Here are a few links that maybe you've already found:
http://kuai.crdg.hawaii.edu/store/summerprograms/core-programs/core-pm.html
http://www.hawaiiala.com/individual-courses.html
http://www.friendsofhawaiirobotics.org
http://www.waialuarobotics.com (I think this is a school, but they might lead you to a contact person for a home school club or be valuable in some other way.)
Also, what about the Boys and Girls Club through the base/post/wherever you are? If they don't currently have a robotics club, they might be willing to organize one.
Lastly, you could organize a club through your public library or (if they haven't closed it already, those libraries seem to be dropping like flies) the base library. You might get a contact person from one of the local groups (Friends of Hawaii Robotics?) and see if someone would be willing to guide the group if you aren't interested in doing it yourself.
Just a few ideas from a fellow (but recently retired) military nomad.
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My son has attended for the past two summers for the two week session. He is a fourth year Spanish student and a sophomore in high school. He has enjoyed his time there greatly. He spoke primarily to other like-minded students and to the staff, many of whom are native speakers. In fact, his cabin staff member was a native speaker who spoke very little English. My son would like to work as a junior counselor there in the summers to come.
I fully support the mission of the camps and I think they do an excellent job of giving a student a near immersion experience. We have lived overseas and know firsthand that you get out of an immersion experience (even in another country) what you put into it. I know my son's conversational Spanish and confidence speaking has benefited greatly.
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The best thing you can do to support her comprehension is read the book yourself and discuss it with her. Tell her your favorite part. Ask her what she thought when something happened in the book that you found entertaining. Talk to her like a friend who has read the same book and not as a teacher with a quiz.
I wouldn't make it a "reading comprehension" job, but rather a joint venture into discovery and enjoyment of a book. You will help her understand the story better as you discuss which will improve her comprehension when she reads a new book. The more you share and discuss the more she will want to read so you can talk about a new book together. It's fun to have book chats over tea and cookies. Make it a joy and not a chore.
And there's nothing wrong with Junie B. and a host of other early chapter books that are silly. Kids love them. Kids read them. Reading these types of books leads to reading more complicated literature. They have to start somewhere.
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Actually, your posts are very dismissive to the difficulties people are expressing and they are also full of generalities that are not country-wide realities.
First, when I was addressing dual enrollment, i was specifically addressing the issue of beyond AP level coursework (which is what most people are discussing as where they have difficulties. ) When you have students that are young and have maxed out high school level courses, no, dual enrollment is not "required" to be allowed. (In the post I was addressing, you specifically stated that you believed that dual enrollment was a law in your state.)
The OP discusses rather or not to skip in middle school and not coursework beyond AP. I never said dual enrollment was "required" in all states but instead that it is a state law in my state. The specific legislation is from the Ohio CORE legislation (S. B. 311)
Second, I have never lived in a state that has funded access to college classes. So, the limit to 2 classes has absolutely NOTHING to do w/funding by the state (b/c we are the ones paying full-tuition for the courses for our high school students). These are **completely inflexible** university policies which we have faced in 2 different states. The only way around the 2 class limit is early graduation and full-time enrollment.
While I appreciate your experience, Ohio offers funding. If the student pays out of pocket, they can take additional classes.
It is the tone of the next comment which is pretty much the only reason I responded to this thread in the first place (b/c I am anti-grade skipping so I personally didn't have any advice to offer the OP in regards to actually going ahead and doing it.) Why do you assume that people **aren't** calling the college board seeking suggestions? Also, to suggest that once schools see test scores that suddenly everything falls into place is just not everyone else's reality. (It certainly has not been our experience.)
Why do you assume they are calling the college board? In any case, I rarely see a post describing that someone took the college board's suggested testing location and then was shot down. Instead, I see a lot of frustration derived from calling the nearest schools and finding them unwilling to help. I'm not discussing anyone's reality besides my own.
And the irony here is that you are assuming that the posters that are responding to you actually disagree w/the premise that student's shouldn't remain in high school as long as possible. If you search this board for early college/graduation discussions, you will find that most people on this forum are not advocating early graduation and that they are simply expressing real hurdles they have faced.
As it appears we agree, your post seems to have been written only to try to find fault with mine. And now to suggest that I am being "dismissive" which quite frankly is incredibly dismissive towards me and my experiences.
I have not been unkind in my postings nor have I intended to dismiss anyone. I have just offered my perspective.
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I would be surprised if unrestricted access to dual enrollment was a law anywhere. We move a lot and will be moving again in the next couple of months and the situation is no where near as simple as what you are portraying. (FWIW, here the CCs don't allow dual enrollment prior to 16. The university normally restricts it to 2nd semester jrs. They did allow our ds to enroll as a 1st semester jr.)
I have not suggested "unrestricted access to dual enrollment" anywhere. I have said that dual enrollment, AP, and CLEP are all ways to acquire credit while remaining a high school student.
I have spent quite a bit of time on the phone, faxing, emailing, etc various directors of admissions at different universities in the 3 different states where we might end up. One state university allows homeschooled students to enroll via continuing ed, but absolutely does not classify those students as dual enrolled. Another state's university does not allow homeschool students to dual enroll, period, and no students under 17 and sr in high school is allowed to enroll. (this university after many contacts and meeting w/the head of the admissions dept has agreed to consider allowing our ds to enroll via a conditional enrollment. He will also be turning 17 a couple of weeks after the semester starts.) The third state has PSEO and they are used to dealing w/gifted students and talking to them was like talking in a completely different language compared to the other schools (one that understood mine!! It was so nice to actually have someone who understood what we needed.)
You are talking about students who are being home schooled. I am talking about other options besides a grade skip for a middle schooler being placed into a public or private school. Incidentally, I have just been through this with both of my older two kids (15 and 13). They were homeschooled until the beginning of last year. I struggled with the question of grade skipping and decided to accelerate into higher courses out of grade level instead of saying they were in a higher grade. While my daughter has the credits to be a second semester junior/senior lite, we are considering her a sophomore. While my son already has two high school credits and will earn three this year, he is by age and by grade a young 8th grader. I believe that relates to the OPs original question.
Also, most universities limit the number of courses high school students can enroll in to 2. ECE students are not limited since they are considered full-time students. However, when discussing something like an advanced scholars program where the student is enrolling only part time, in 2 different states we have lived in the limit was 2 classes (with the only exception being labs associated w/1 of the courses. So if labs are enrolled in separately, then 4 courses can be registered for (2 classes + 2 labs)
Yes, I have found that around 2 classes is what students can take through dual enrollment if you expect the state program to fund the classes. If you are willing to pay out of pocket, this isn't necessarily the case. A quality high school or home school will hopefully offer classes to round out a student's education. I am advocating remaining in high school or not gaining college freshman status while still continuing to work at the student's level.
As far as the part I have bolded, those comments are completely wrong. Spend some time on the high school board and read how many people cannot find schools that will allow their students access to AP testing. I live in a friendly county, but a friend in a neighboring county had an incredibly difficult time finding a place for her student to take his AP tests b/c the public schools absolutely refused access.
37 states have legally mandated gifted student services. I have never personally encountered any difficulty in finding testers. I am always wondering why people don't call the college board for suggestions about where to test when I read about resistance. And again, IME, schools have been pretty helpful once they actually see the test scores for themselves.
And......yes, students are pigeon-holed regardless of talent and ability all the time. They do not have to allow students to accelerate and can keep them stagnate w/their peers. It is one of the reasons we homeschool.
There are lots of options for advanced students. However, that does not mean that locally they will be receptive to your student or willing to accommodate (which is why I have spent so much time making contact b/c access to a university is a requirement for our family.) EPGY, CTY, etc are other possibilities, however many of the universities that our 11th grader has been researching will not grant credit for online coursework which means that those credits would not transfer. Also, CC coursework only goes to a certain level as noted by (I think) Kar. Our ds has exceeded the math offered at CCs, so even if the CCs allow dual enrollment while the universities don't, that doesn't help his situation.
Anyway, our experience is that it is not as easy as what you are portraying and that it takes due diligence on my part to ensure that the doors are open for my kids.
I haven't suggested that anything is easy?
I've only stated that I believe it is in most student's best interest to retain high school status for as long as possible while finding creative ways to help them work at their own level. I don't believe it is student's best interests to grade skip them only to ship them off to university at an early age. JMHO
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I agree. I'm mostly just listening in on the conversation because I wonder what you do when dc hit that point.
I'm pretty sure that is not true here. I don't think they are legally obligated to provide anything more than the minimum state requirements for graduation. The district can't stop anyone from taking the AP test but they don't have to let your child in the AP class (or even provide an AP class for that matter).
I guess it depends on the state. I think 30 or 40 states have gifted education legislation. Typically, gifted ed seems to fall under the "appropriate education" required for special needs students and along with that an IEP.
Nevertheless, I am kind of surprised to hear of schools in states where there is no law that will offer no accommodation for advanced students. How does a principal talking with a parent explain that while your student has passed an AP exam with a high score as a freshman or younger, that he should continue to study with age mates?
Most principals I've dealt with are much more open, educated about the need for differentiation, and accommodation. And if they don't start out that way, scores open their eyes and their willingness to help pretty quickly, IME.
Oh well. My main point in this thread is that once you skip, you run out of rope and you are forced to say goodbye to 15, 16, or 17 year olds (possibly younger, I suppose?) as they head off to college. Even mature younger teens can struggle and feel lost and disoriented at leaving home. Trying to sign leases and negotiate contracts as a minor isn't legal. Sending a minor off into the adult world comes with an element of danger and sadness, imo. But then, maybe I'm clingy to want my kids home as long as possible. I just realize that these years are so fleeting, and I want to enjoy my teens at home until they reach legal adulthood.
There is also a competitive advantage and value to competing with age mates for slots in selective universities, too.
Just my thoughts. I would have benefited from adopting them earlier on in my journey. YMMV. Best of luck in finding the best path for us all!
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What we get with a lot of the "how to stay in high school longer" suggestions is early college courses (PSEO/ dual enrollment) where he would absolutely stick out, not just because he's young but because these are colleges that are not attracting students who love math and science and language and history and want to explore all the possibilities each new idea opens up, as much as they are attracting students who need to get through this stupid class with at least a C- so they can get on with whatever they need the degree for. I've tutored long enough to know exactly what he'd be walking into, and it would not help. Not even to stretch out high school one more year.
My son sticks out now and will again when he's ready for dual enrollment. He's a little guy and he's young for an eighth grader let alone a sophomore.
I'm not sure him being away at a university or college full time as a freshman two years early would be any better or easier for him. Both of my older two children are mature and sensible. I still think being 18 when they are negotiating the adult world alone is preferable.
We are close to a few universities (for example UD and Wright State) where my kids will dually enroll. If you're not close enough to a university, then you might ask the high school you find if they would consider making a suitable course for your son to take independent study with their support. The head of the math department and foreign language department at our high school have both suggested this as a possibility for our kids.
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I don't know about colleges, but the public high school here doesn't work with anyone. Embedded honors (meaning that honors kids do extra work on their own), no honors before 11th grade (except in math), and no AP before 11th grade. No exceptions.
Possibly my situation is unique because we move frequently, but even the public school we spoke with here had no problem having my son take math and foreign language at the high school given his grades, SAT scores, and previous high school work from 7th grade.
What does your public school do with advanced students? If a student is ready for advanced work (and nobody can stop anybody from taking the SAT, ACT, or AP tests regardless of age) the high school is legally obligated to accommodate.
Surely they don't keep everyone in the same track regardless of ability and talent?
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Unfortunately, many colleges won't. They either have age limits (as many parents on the high school board noticed), or they insist on seeing a "high school transcript" - even though this requirement makes no sense for a 7th or 8th grader. (This happened to us; there was absolutely no way to formally enroll my 8th grader in the college physics course she ended passing with an A as the top student; she could only audit by instructor consent because of personal connections and did not receive college credit for it.)
So how does that work? How do they get from their middle school where they spend a part of the day to the high school to take classes there? How does their middle school work with you? (If the attend high school full time, that would be a grade skip)
It would have been impossible for my middle schooler to go to the high school for specific classes during the day. There was no mechanism in place, and most definitely no transportation.
My 15 year old will take classes at the local university here next year part time as she will have run out of AP classes in two disciplines. The ability to dually enroll is a law here, I believe.
Adding this to my previous post: My middle school students DID have high school transcripts. My kids both (while being home schooled) took classes from accredited high school sources in middle school which allowed for a high school transcript. They each took foreign language and math and my daughter took three other high school classes. This transcript, in addition to SAT scores, would have allowed her to enter community college. If you look at TPS, you can enter Bellhaven Community College online with a minimum SAT score (can't remember what it is right off hand). I think it's a matter of finding the right college to work with you.
My 8th grader is driven by me from one school to the other. It's no fun, but it's what we're doing for now. I have considered homeschooling him part time this year and having him at the high school, but we're in the middle of a move and this is working. The high school was also willing to allow him to attend for five years, which we considered.
There is also a local public school which has the middle school and high school on the same campus which would have allowed my son to walk between classes. The school my kids attended last year was an inclusive K-12 which made it easy, too.
I had three high school/middle school combos willing to work with us this past year.
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KAR,
I just noticed you're in Ohio. We've just moved to the Dayton area. If you want info about our experience with schools here, feel free to PM me!
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We're not choosing grade levels to get a "blue ribbon" :001_huh:
The private schools we've talked to really do care. A LOT. Even at the high school level. They don't all agree, but so far they all care. Proof hasn't been an issue, but I wouldn't call it a "little kids game".
We haven't seen as many options as you have, either. Well... lots of options... but not lots of good options. Nothing that would keep him out of early college if we didn't find a really challenging high school. Dual enrollment in particular is not very promising - I'd much rather find a high school with four years of math he can do, in classes, with other high school kids... and not four years of trying to piece together college math classes online or with adults. AP and CLEP aren't going to be enough.
All to say... there really are situations that call for skipping, even at the high school level. I'm glad you've found something that works for you, but I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that some of us really do need something different, and not just for bragging rights.
I didn't suggest anyone wanted a blue ribbon. I was using an expression to illustrate there is no reason to rush. There is no reward for finishing early. In fact, you just end up with your kids leaving sooner.
Regarding the "need to do something different" I am just not sure I agree. There is a lot of value to skipping content without skipping grade levels. Once you hit 7th or 8th grade, if your scores are high enough, many high schools and colleges will work with you.
I have just moved into a new district with nothing but grades from last year from my kids, test scores, and a letter of recommendation from the school they left. I have had no problem finding several high schools who were willing to accommodate them. We may move again this year, and again, I am not the least bit worried that my kids will have trouble. Test scores are pretty persuasive.
I'm not sure I follow your logic regarding "piecing together math classes." Why would you have to piece anything together? If your student enters college early as a young freshman (presumably under 18) he will end up taking classes with adults anyway. At least if your child is taking those classes while living under your roof, you have the opportunity to guide them appropriately.
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IME, the further along your child is in his schooling, the less questions people have regarding age and grade. That is really a little kids game since many parents believe their youngster is ready for more than they may or may not be developmentally ready to handle. For middle school and older students, the real questions are what work have the students done, what are their test scores, and are they mature enough to handle an older crowd.
One thing to keep in mind is that if you double skip, your child will be leaving for college two years earlier than otherwise. For us, we've decided we want our kids with us as long as possible.
There are enough options in today's world for high school students who are still in high school that leaving for early college isn't necessary. You can dually enroll usually starting around age 16 (earlier if warranted) in most states. This, along with AP and CLEP opportunities, mean a high school student can collect college credit and work at their own level while still considered a high school student. This gives that student the opportunity to become a freshman in college with credit as opposed to a young freshman without.
Don't underestimate your child's peers, either. There are lots of bright and successful kids your younger kid is going to be competing with for college admissions. Being the same age as your advanced peers levels the playing field.
I know from experience it's tough to understand what I've written when your children are younger. It really wasn't until my oldest hit middle school age that we seriously had to start thinking about if we wanted her leaving the nest sooner or later....
Now, I have a high school sophomore with enough credits to graduate at the end of this year and SAT scores high enough to get her into many schools, who will be staying in high school for two more years because of the opportunities. I also have an eighth grader going to high school for sophomore level math, science, and foreign language study and staying in eighth grade for other subjects. The high school was more than willing to take him as a freshman, but we've decided we don't want him leaving early either. Both students are in private schools now after being homeschooled until last year. All the schools cared about were test scores (SAT and PSAT in the case of both my kids).
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i'll admit that i'm not one to have bathroom discussions easily. i can do it with my patients (i'm a nurse) but with family?!?! egads. my dh has NEVER been present while i'm in the bathroom. we've been married almost 13 years and have 3 children. i think I would be mortified if my mother had brought this to my attention as a child and he seems alot like me in that respect.
you guys sound like you really have the parenting thing down. as i said one post up' date=' most days i feel like i'm failing.[/quote']
I think it boils down to life experiences.
For example, I live in a country more likely to have Asian/Turkish toilets (squatty potties) than traditional western style toilets. When we moved here, I had to take my daughters into the restrooms and try to explain to them how to use the toilet. You can imagine the conversations! :D
Just look at this as an opportunity to broaden your skill set. As your son gets older, you'll want to be able to talk with him. If you're uncomfortable, he'll be uncomfortable. You want him to feel like you can handle the tough stuff so that he can be honest.
Have confidence and fake it until you make it! Parenting doesn't get any easier, but you do get chances to practice on smaller issues like this one. :grouphug:
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nah' date=' it's not that. thanks for the replies everyone. this is hard for me because he seems to be a sensitive guy. like he just shuts.down when things get uncomfortable for him. he'll either just kinda ignore it like you aren't saying it (b/c i've brought this up before) or in the case of other issues, like being mean to his brother for example, he'll flat out say "stop talking" and appear to be on the verge of tears. i don't want to embarass him.
oh, and i'm kinda environmentally and financially opposed to extra wipes in the bathroom. any suggestions there?[/quote']
Be sure it's HIS sensitivity and not yours that's stopping you from having a frank discussion with him. Even if he'd rather not hear information, it's your job to teach him. You have many discussions to come which might upset him.
Be kind. Be gentle. Be direct. Even if he pretends he's not listening, he'll hear you. And if you approach it properly, you can lay groundwork for future uncomfortable discussions that will be necessary as he grows.
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I just thought I'd add, you don't have to teach every subject every day. You can follow a "block schedule" and teach 4 classes a day alternating every other day. Most high schools follow a similar schedule these days.
For each hour in class, there should be independent study that the student works on by himself alone on the day off from class.
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Yes to the bolded.
We had a similar situation with my oldest - he was skipped in b&m school and decided this year that he wants to graduate at 18. He took the PSAT this past October for practice and listed his grade as 10th.
I called the College Board a few months ago after my son had made his decision to ask if he could take the PSAT again this year for practice and list his grade level as 10th again. The CB rep told me that was acceptable.
That is great news. Thanks so much for the reply!
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My perspective is that one of the benefits of homeschooling is that we have flexibility. Kids mature at different rates and have different life goals. Leaving the nest isn't just one thing - some kids go part time while living at home, some kids go cross country. Those take different levels of maturity and it is really an individual decision based on a lot of variables that parents and kids will know better than outsiders will.
If you opt for an extra year the easiest thing for scholarship and admissions purposes is typical going to be to reclassify her grade rather than opting for a gap year. You can merge together years and create a four year transcript or group your transcript by subject.
For the PSAT, for National Merit purposes, she is not going to be allowed a repeat (though can readily accommodate students who skip). Whatever she's listed as her grade on the SAT or ACT before doesn't really matter so don't worry about that.
Barbara,
I am going through this same line of thought for my dd. She has just finished her sophomore year but she skipped 8th grade so she is currently on target to graduate at 17. She took the PSAT as a sophomore this past fall. Can she wait and take it again as a junior in two years instead of this coming year or would that not be allowed?
Anyone know?
Dozen Best Books
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted · Edited by KJB
Thought I'd share this new way to connect to other books lovers.
http://dozenbestbooks.com
This is a newly launched website. The youtube video at
explains how it works. I already started a list for homeschooling books featuring our very own Well Trained Mind books as well as other homeschooling books I've used since beginning homeschooling in 2001.
My uncle, a rabid book lover, came up with the concept and designed the website. And of course, it's free. Just a way to connect to other people who love books as much as you/we/I do.