[Does anyone else think Classical Conversations is neither?]

they are doing away with the History-Based Writing books (thank goodness!) for the very reason you stated above: CC's schedule of following the TWSS syllabus made it impossible to stay in historical/chronological order in the MBHW books. Drives me batty!  CC came up with their own book, following the TWSS syllabus and the lessons will be historically chronological.

 

it's baffling to me that tutors aren't supposed to share their lesson plans in teaching as well. fortunately a friend of mine gave me hers to look over when i was starting to make lessons plans. otherwise, i'd still be trying to come up with my own system. there is a lot to do as a tutor, but i enjoy the preparation for the class each week. except for the IEW part. :-)

 

 

 

This resonates with my experience as well. Thank you for saying it. Sometimes you can't really understand how something works until you participate in it. Although I do wish I had at least sat in on a class, but I didn't look into it until they had just wrapped up the year, so all we got was the open house, which was really just the timeline song and presentations. At the information meeting, I was told what the schedule was - and I don't feel I was deceived, but it just played out differently in practice than in theory, and I didn't realize how much it would bother me that there couldn't be discussion (hence my beef with it being called "conversations") about the content of the memory work in class. 

 

I agree that the timeline is probably the best part in terms of learning - my girls have already memorized the whole thing (as many kids there have), so that's at least one thing we can take away, despite the financial loss (live and learn) since we paid a full year tuition for both Foundations and Essentials, not to mention the cost of the materials (which seems to be where CC generates its income, in addition to its website subscription, app, etc.).

 

I also just want to say that the main reason I decided to try it was because the director and her husband are wonderful people - they are seminary grads and have devoted themselves to educating children. They have their own tutoring center and they homeschool their children. It's ironic to me, though, because they are so out-of-the-box with the classes they offer at their center, and very eclectic, technology oriented, creative, etc., and not even classical homeschoolers. In fact, a lot of the people who are in our CC community aren't classical homeschoolers, and some are even unschoolers. Several families are piecing their children's education together with co-ops, classes, and extracurriculars (so the home part is light and therefore not context oriented), while others are basing their whole curriculum around CC. 

 

They only just started this community last year, so before that I would have had to go into SF, which is where some of my friends go (and where our director went with her then 4 yr-old to experience the program for a year before starting her own), and it's a more established community. I had too many reservations about doing it to spend the money and to commute, but when it came to our county, and was started by people that I trust (my kids had loved their summer camp classes), I put those aside. I really really wanted it to be a good fit for our family, so it hasn't been easy struggling with all this, not to mention when I quit a the Essentials tutor, and felt like I was letting my friends down (they didn't make me feel that way - I just did), but that it was either that or that  my family would suffer from the time, energy, and frustration required by that commitment. One thing I could never understand was why there was no tutor manual. We were directed to webinars, forums, and various sources that we had to compile together, and it would have been much simpler and less time consuming if it were all in one place. And yet, even tutors weren't supposed to share their materials with each other!  For IEW, you've got to watch hours of DVDs, and then re-watch them, because it's impossible to retain all that after such a long viewing time. And the book that CC uses with IEW doesn't follow the same order as the units - it also moves much more quickly through them. Everything just felt very bloated and overcomplicated and rushed (even though it's the same program for three years except for a different book to go with IEW to match the history cycle). 

 

[Does anyone else think Classical Conversations is neither?]

Hmmm....I came by this morning to respond to a post from last night (by OhElizabeth) that seems to have been deleted. 

 

I think this discussion is great for those of us who are on the fence, or who have pros and cons of the program as a whole. For those who either love it or don't like it at all, this is a moot point.

 

~liz

[Does anyone else think Classical Conversations is neither?]

I think the CC model is completely classical, especially in the Foundations level. The rote memory work isn't to be expounded on in the early years, just memorized. (I've heard rumors that there are "masters foundations classes" with 11 or 12 year olds who do begin to dig deeper into the memory work since that age is already in the dialectic stage.)

That said, the Foundations Memory Master approach to learning seems to be forced and encouraged highly and for students, like my boys, who enjoyed going to CC, doing some of the memory work, and having fun with their friends, the challenge to win a tshirt if they memorized everything with 100% accuracy just wasn't there for them. i didn't like the memory masters challenge aspect of Foundations, and we do not participate in the Foundations part of our campus.

I am an Essentials tutor, and LOVE the EEL part but hate the IEW approach to writing. I love to write creatively and I think IEW is too constrictive. I've heard parents who don't like to write, and who have kids who don't like to write, say that's why they love IEW: it helps their child know what to write. My Essentials child doesn't like to write, and I don't want him to learn to write the IEW way...I'm thinking of doing WWE with him next year even though I'll still be tutoring Essentials.

So I am not a drinker of the koolaid: I'm not 100% on board with the greatness of the program, but I do like enough aspects of it to continue with them while we are in the Essentials stage.

I'm hesitant about the Challenge program because it is very closed-minded about Creation. The program seems to be full of anti-evolution material (based on the books in the curriculum that you can see in their catalog), which I refuse to teach to my kids.

[Latin?]

I'm sorry tif this thread has already been discussed...if it's easier to point me to an old thread that discusses this, that would be great!

 

We have been using Song School Latin with my young boys for the past year (ages 4, 6, and 7) and are ready to go into a first year of Latin studies. I was convinced I'd be using Latin for Children (Classical Academic Press), but now I'm leaning more toward Latina Christiana (Memoria Press).

 

Can anyone give me a review of what you liked/disliked about either of these Latins? My boys like chants and songs, and short worksheets (not worksheet-heavy). Or is there yet another Latin course that works well for young children?

 

I thought I'd get to a convention this year to look at the material up close, but it's not working out this year...so this is the next best way to get information on learning material. Thanks!

 

~liz

[AAS tiles not working, what are some workbook spelling programs?]

I was just considering purchasing AAS for the next school year after doing Spell to Write and Read for two years. While I love the concept and program of Spell to Write and Read, and while it's given a great start in phonetic reading, my two boys (ages 6, and 7) are not good spellers at all.

 

Can someone point to or give a quick description of how A&P is different than AAS? I was so close to making my new spelling program decision! :)

[White flour: do you keep some in your kitchen for some things]

I converted our family over to whole grains about a year ago, but I keep unbleached white flour in the house for the occasional batch of pancakes or pizza dough. I have three young boys (4, 6, and 7) who don't complain too loudly about their whole grain pizza crust or pancakes, but every now and then the oldest will ask for the "old kind."

 

I still love the whole grain texture and nutty flavor, especially on pizza!

[Did you know that...(CC, I suppose)]

I was told that I shouldn't read the Narnia books because they're "demonic." This same person said she loved Lewis' Screwtape Letters, though. :001_huh:

 

 

ha ha! now that made me spit out my coffee. :)

[The new Philly Conference]

I haven't heard a formal announcement of it yet - I keep checking the "Philly Conference" thread, though. If anyone has info on where it will be announced, let us know! :)

~liz

[Well known Homeschool Author on Ken Ham's FB page...]

Why did she bring the issue of women and college into it? I don't understand why that's relevant. As annoying as I think that POV is, it has nothing to do with the issue they are discussing and makes her look like she's just being antagonistic. As great as it is to see someone stand up to Phillips, I don't think she did such a great job. :glare:

 

i wondered at this too, but the more i thought of it, the more i wondered if she was trying to make it look like he would support Ham dragging SWB's name through the mud. Kind of like, "See what happens when you disobey scripture and allow women into higher education? They allure us down the wrong path with their woeful grammar books and steer us unto the path of destruction by publishing woeful scientific and old earth authors."

 

I could be way off, though.

[Well known Homeschool Author on Ken Ham's FB page...]

WOW! I hope they don't delete these from the thread! People will see Phillips true character in this conversation (as they are seeing Ham's true colors in his current FB posts).

 

Very interesting, to say the least.

[Lots of new voices here lately...]

Hello!

 

I've been registered with these forums for a while, but have just started using them in earnest again.

 

I am a mama to three boys, ages 4, 6, and 7. This is our third year homeschooling and we've just joined a classical co-op this semester (Classical Conversations).

 

We'll be incorporating lots more PHP products into our homeschool next year, so I thought I'd join back in on these discussions. I find these boards to be so encouraging!

 

I blog about our homeschool and hobby farm (sheep!) at http://www.smithical.com. Find me as Elizabeth Laughlin Smith at facebook!

 

~liz

[A complete distortion of my words]

I'm curious as to whether AiG or Ken Ham have responded to your communication efforts yet, Susan? I see that Ken Ham is ready to blog again about Enns' writings (pulling quotes out of context) and those "who endorses it."

 

~liz

[A complete distortion of my words]

Doug Phillips called on everyone to purchase something from AiG yesterday (because GHC is basically taking money away from AiG's sales by not having them at the convention).

 

We can do the same at Peace Hill Press today (not that we need anyone to tell us to do so) to make up for the loss in business they might be enduring.

 

Let's love on PHP!!

~liz

[A complete distortion of my words]

You can also "friend" Susan on facebook...she will no doubt, welcome your facebook-friendship! :) unless you're a "wolf in sheep's clothing." ahem.

[Philly Conference]

please let us know when and where we should "register" for this new event. very excited to be able to come!

 

~liz

[Philly Conference]

Ok here's the scoop as I understand it. I did know before all of this occurring, that Dr. Kemnitz of RFWP was planning to host small conventions with just a few speakers, with MCT being a featured speaker. He was going to hold this in various locations. So the cancelation of the Northeast Convention has spurred this forward I do believe. So RFWP will be holding a mini-convention at the Radisson's convention center which can hold 2000 people for the dates of the Northeast Convention. More to follow on speakers.

 

We're going to Philadelphia!!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOO

 

Can someone help me out with the initials MCT? :)

and just to be clear, this is the same weekend that the North East Convention was to be held? thanks!! :)

~liz

[Ham strikes again...this time he goes after SWB in earnest]

Thanks for the link. I find Phillips' words interesting:

 

"In a day and age when an ungodly territoriality and other Satanically-inspired confusion deceptions are often used as wedges to prevent ministries from working with each other—thus diminishing the effective witness of the Body of Christ—"

 

 

Wedges? Deceptions? Diminishing the Body of Christ?

 

Interesting.

Lisa

 

disturbing! (does anyone else feel the need to edit his writing??)

[Ham strikes again...this time he goes after SWB in earnest]

This post is a complete and total distortion of my review. Read the whole review here: http://www.susanwisebauer.com/blog/inspiration-and-incarnation-review/

 

In no way did I "endorse" any theory of evolution or any theory about Adam.

 

I praised the book for asking difficult questions and suggested that we should all do the same.

 

I have tried to contact AiG directly, since Mr. Ham has made such a point of talking about Biblical confrontation. I have so far been unable to even leave a message.

 

I am posting this publicly because this was a public attack.

 

To follow it with an endorsement for his own history curriculum: I don't even know what to say. I feel sick.

 

SWB

 

i had the same reaction upon reading Ham's "review" of your book review. I read your actual review and found Ham's "slice and dice" treatment of your review rather suspect. But even MORE suspect, the advertisement for selling his curriculum in the same post.

 

~liz

[Philly Conference]

i am definitely interested as i was so close to registering for the philly conference and booking our hotel room. have to talk it over with the husband, so can i semi-confirm with a :auto: ?

 

thanks!

~liz

[Philly Conference]

Yes! Yes!

 

Guys,

 

Let me see what I can do. :001_smile: More soon.

 

SWB

 

P.S. Maybe Jim Weiss will come too? I'll drop them a note.

[Philly Conference]

Can SWB and company of Peace Hill Press and even Olive Branch Books join in the fun?? (just throwing it out there!!) :)

 

~liz

[Ham strikes again...this time he goes after SWB in earnest]

Dear Faith,

This is exactly, exactly, how my husband and I feel.

I am truly so disheartened in the behavior seen.

 

And also the out of context quotes, etc.

 

By the way- was Dr. Enns truly "fired" from Westminster Theological Seminary due to his book?

 

Rebecca

 

this is what Peter Enns' wikipedia page says about that:

"On March 26, 2008, the Board of Trustees at Westminster Theological Seminary voted 18–9 to suspend Enns from his position effective May 23, 2008.[15] Though the faculty voted 12–8 that the work falls within the parameters of the Westminster Confession of Faith,[15] the chairman of the Board said that a majority of the members on the Board at that time felt the book was incompatible with the Confession.[14] As of August 1, 2008, Enns and the seminary agreed to part ways.[16] Following the Board's vote, nine trustees resigned from the board."

[Philly Conference]

Noooo!!!! We just decided to go to the Philly conference and visit family in the area.

[Ham strikes again...this time he goes after SWB in earnest]

I really think he's in over his head "taking on" the likes of SWB and Dr. Enns. He pulled quotes out of context of her review, and is running with his interpretations (funny, that!).

 

I found the opening paragraph of SWB's review of Dr. Enn's book (about reading Sumerian poetry and how that relates to Paul's new heaven and new earth description) compelling and quite interesting, and he doesn't include it in his "review" of her book review on his blog.

 

The simple fact that Ham and his ilk are ignoring HUGE chunks of human culture and history in order to fit their very small view of God's creation doesn't do God's creation justice. argh!

[bible curriculum for 1st and 2nd grade]

hello!

 

for those of you who teach bible in your homeschool, what do you recommend? i have a few ideas for what we'll be doing in the fall with my 1st and 2nd grader (the pre-k-er will no doubt sit at the table/on the couch/in bed with us and follow along as well), but would love some recommendations from other classical homeschoolers!

 

thanks!

~liz