Myrtle
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Posts posted by Myrtle
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would do the trick since RM6 does do basic algebra in the final couple chaptes. I am previewing NEM1 and Dociani's 1970 Algebra and trying to figure out how to put them together for me dd.
jeri
Jeri, I was trying to limit my response to the Singapore products, but a lot of people say that Russian Math 6 is a really good bridge.
Thread Hijack:
I have had a lot of difficulty integrating our algebra with NEM. Everything is presented out of order and the problems concerning fractions in one require prior knowlege that you didn't get around to in another.
I have been integrating it on a lesson by lesson basis, using Allen as the spine and supplementing with Singapore. In other words I use the theory as the spine and supplement with hairy calculations which reinforce technique. Since Singapore spreads algebra out across three years rather than just limiting it to NEM 1 I find myself flipping through all three books for extra problems.
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Look at this story. I think I'd die...
It's kinda cool that they were able to remove the snake without killing it.
I'm also thinking how awful it would be to have a large animal dead in the washing machine. Gross.
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Thanks,
Lisa
No. But,
the entire series gives the child 6 years of working with unknowns in the form of increasingly complex bar models, making mathematical arguments, and using association, distribution, and the commutative law in the mental math exercises, and horizontal equations so that all of these are old hat and come naturally by the time of 7th grade algebra.
the first few chapters of 7th grade NEM cover some topics that in arithemetic that were not covered in the primary series, such as more on the division of fractions and decimals, negative numbers, and order of operations. They don't actually begin algebra until several chapters into the book.
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Could my aching joints be caused by abruptly stopping my 8 cup a day habit? Oh, and also my sudden inability to think, read, concentrate, or function? That too?
Share your experience with me... how long is this gonna last?
:blink:
Jen
7 days
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Thank you so much! I am copying your post and yes, my younger ones are starting on the bar diagrams as well. I have a 7yo starting on the 2nd grade CWP and he is quite a math whiz. My 11yo, going into 6th grade, was beginning the 5th grade CWP that we have been struggling with. He has been very frustrated by them, and I'm wondering.. should I also do level 2 or maybe 3 with him?? He is not a strong math student, but he is ready for 6A PM, I believe. What do you suggest?
My problem is that I don't have a 1/2 hour to spend on a WP since I'm working with so many dc. I was hoping that I could assign each of them 1 page (3 prob.) to do a day, but I see now that is unrealistic. I really appreciate your help!
Kim
With my second grader I began by drawing the outline of the bar model he needed. Then I told him to
1. Label
2. Write numbers
3. Write question mark (this represents the unknown quantity on the bar diagram)
4. Write number sentence.
the list helped him. He does a pretty good job on his own. Just make sure they always draw a bar model for every single word problem no matter how easy it is.
With my oldest son I took a piece of poster board and cut two different sized rectangles in it that he could use as a template and that made things faster.
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Would just the CWP be enough for a "grown up bar diagram workshop"? If not what else would be needed?
It was for me.
Carefully study the two models they give you and then try to draw a bar diagram similar to the examples.
The other thing I found useful was to go to the Singaporemath.com message boards and look at all the questions people had about bar models and how Jenny demonstrated them.
After you get the hang of it, you'll wonder why you never saw it. It will "click"
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OK, I used to think that I was pretty good in math? But goodness, these problems are hard! Maybe if I had quiet moments to sit down and really think about them, I could get it, but with 6 young dc.... I just don't have the time or energy to really figure these out... and, I am embarrassed to admit, we're talking 5th grade here!!!
So, deeep breath, someone please tell me that there is a solutions manual... somewhere... I know that the answers are in the back of the book, but I need to know HOW they are doing these problems. Now, I could solve them with algebra, but we're not supposed to do that in 5th grade.
So, everyone says that the Challenging Word Problems are really valuable to my dc's education, so tell me, is there any help out there? Anywhere??
:rant:
Thanks,
Kim
Hi Kim,
If you think that you might use Singapore for all of your children it may be a good investment to go ahead and get grades 2,3,4 so that you can start from the beginning.
The secret to those convoluted word problems are the bar models and they begin teaching that in the second grade! In the beginning the bar models have only a couple of basic patterns and that makes it easy for the kids. Each year after that new complexity is added and there is more variation in what can be done. By the time the kid is in the 6th grade he has had four years of manipulating "unknowns" in multi step problems which take the form of a bar rather than an "X and it's just a tiny further step to replace the bar with a an "x" ....it's just notation at the point, not abstraction, and this is why kids in Singapore are ready for algebra in 7th.
So, I guess what I am saying is rather than starting in the 5th grade with these problems, start as low as you need. In the second grade even, your child would not have to do the whole book, maybe just three per unit-just enough to catch on. You'd have the book for your younger children.
It's very hard picking up the bar diagrams in the middle of this program.
If I were to give grown ups work shop on bar diagrams I would start with examples in the second grade and work my way up to the level you are working at.
You are not dumb at all because you find these difficult! I found one that I couldn't solve right away and showed it to my husband who has a math degree and he said, "You can't solve that without algebra!" I gloated when I showed him the bar model solution.
Also, it's not expected that the kid have 100% mastery of word problems in these books. If your kid is successfully solving them at 50-60% that is not bad! Of course 75% is better. Remember that in Singapore they are on a different grading scale than we are. For them a 50% is the lowest C you can get-- a75% is the lowest A) It seems that the other goal (maybe not intentional) of Singapore math is to push the kid to spend more and more time thinking on a problem and also to learn how to be patient with himself when he can't get the solution. Don't give up when you can't immediately think of the solution.
In many math programs they may train the child to recognize and solve a particular class of problems, but in Singapore not all their problems are so obvious and you may have to try one bar model, another, and another before you finally get it. Don't be surprised if you spend 30 minutes on a one problem.
In those cases in which my son was at 50%, when he was finished with the book I would rewrite those word problems he missed and have him try them again. By the end of the book he couldn't recall the correct solution from the ones he missed in the beginning.
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I have no idea. Isn't that awful? I have to shop year round and buy it a bit a a time and I don't know what it adds up to. Also, I have been homeschooling since '91 so I have a lot of stuff, though it seems like I am constantly buying more.
I'm with Kelli I don't keep track of everything.
It probably would come out to be $1000 I think for 3 kids, if I had to guess.
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Thank you SOOOO much everyone!!! We usually use the ER for true emergencies, but dh was leaving for a week on Sunday. So, on Sat night, he took him in for an xray so I wouldn't have to deal with it alone with three kids!
So, I'm going to call my doc at home (he goes to our church and encourages us to call him at home if we need to!) and see which ortho doc he recommends.
Thanks so much!!!
Give us an update!
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My brother broke his arm in 2 places (below the elbow & wrist), had it surgically set that night in the ER.
When they took him to our family Orthopedic - he said, "Well, what about the break ABOVE the elbow?"
I'd probably not go back THERE, but if you don't need a referral take him to a Ped Ortho if you have one, or a regular one.
Sometimes emergency rooms aren't the best place for care. I would only go to one for a life or death situation.
Husband broke his hand and bypassed the whole ER visit and went straight to the orthopedist.
When my son was little he ripped part of his lip off his face, my pediatrician called a plastic surgeon for me and we met in his office and got it stitched up right away, correctly by a specialist and it was much, much cheaper than an ER visit.
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Last Saturday, my ds10 flipped over his handlebars on his bike and landed on his arm and head (thank God for helmets!). Anyway, we took him to the ER that night for an xray. They said it wasn't broken.
He's been having pretty severe pain in that arm for the last four days. He is unable to throw a baseball or grasp a bat without quite a bit of pain (and baseball is his LIFE!!). Today we rode bikes and he said it hurt to ride.
When we got home, I noticed that his hand was all swollen. It hadn't been swollen until today. His ER papers said if there was a severe increase in swelling, to come back in. I wouldn't call this severe, but it's definately there.
I tried calling the dr and he doesn't have office hours today.
Why would his non-broken arm STILL be hurting this much? And, why would it suddenly be swelling after not being swollen at all? Should we go back to the ER?
I would look up the name and number of an orthopedist and get an office appointment. They are likely to have x-ray machines in their office and you'll pay on the office fee of a specialist rather than $1000 for an ER visit.
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I started learning Latin this summer on my own. I was looking to teach Henle to my daughter either next year or the year after so I thought I should go through the program first. I LOVE it! I get up a 1/2 hour earlier in the morning and do it then. I tend to be pretty disciplined with stuff like this-my accountability is that I have to teach it to my daughter some day-and I can usually concentrate better in the morning. I get too distracted during the day and too tired at night to put in the effort.
What unit are you on? I've had good intentions of working through Henle as well.
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Have you formalized goals for your self-education? Do you have a schedule? Accountability?
I've identified two books I want to read before the end of the summer, but that's as explicit as it gets for me so far. I'm interested in hearing what others do.
Susan
There are areas such as math and Greek where I really can not hold myself to one book because I just let the ideas take me whereever they take me.
For example, I'll start off in a chapter in Greek, then I want to pick up books I have written in Greek to see if I can understand more now that I've done the lesson, then I end up getting out my dictionary to look up words, then I end up learning some grammar out of order because I need to to understood the book I picked up and son on.
The same thing happens in math.
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I am so frustrated with all this planning! Where did my summer go? Why do I do this to myself? I recently talked to a fairly new homeschooler who was homeschooled herself using Abeka, and the dvds when they were available. She and her brothers and sisters turned out just fine, very intelligent, medical school and such. Someone convince me all this work is worth it!! And it's not even coming up with "lessons" per say that is the problem-many subjects are just do the next thing. But breaking it all down, making little folders for memory work and stuff, filling out the kids' planner sheets, making copies, etc.-it has sucked up nearly my whole summer! The only major planning has been TOG, the rest has just been figuring out stuff. All the while chasing a 15 month old...
Maybe I just need a vacation! I have been cleaning up puke for a week:ack2: My dh offered me the night out, and I'm too tired to do anything but go to bed.
Public schools turn out physicians and lawyers too! Lots of them.
Don't give up because you can't do it all at once. You don't have to do it all in one summer.
Plan out the most important subject and use videos or box curriculum for the others. Relax, and then pick the next important subject to work on. If you get burned out you are more likely to quit. The homeschooling police won't ticket you if you don't have all the details planned out by Sept 1st. It's okay if you take your time on planning out that last subject because you took a day off to go to the park.
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I just got a fun order from Rainbow Resource --lots of math manipulatives. We do not have a school room, I school from the kitchen and I use the pantry for school supplies. Space is limited in there. I'm thinking I want something with lots of dividers/containers. Any ideas?
Gallon zip lock bags for
unit cubes, flash cards, puzzle pieces, geometric cut outs, crayons, hex weights.
And I keep them in my pantry as well. I don't think little drawers would work unless we took out the entire drawer and brought it to the table.
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I don't know what you would consider cool stuff, but we were really big on Origami and fitting it into our math program---it climaxed in a four foot truncated icosahedron constructed aof units with a tie dyed print on the paper.
I used origami a lot because it teaches the kids to follow instructions: They are more motivated to be careful. And also because if you choose the right kind of origami to do you can demonstrate a lot of neat math concepts with it. That said, you'll understand why these were my "cool" choices.
The best book available for a beginner is
1. Polyhedron Origami for beginners by miyuki kawamura.
And then I'd follow up with
2. Amazing Origami by Kunhiko Kasahara
Kasahara's book is interesting because he talks about something called "constructibility" which is a big deal in geometry and also he has a manipulative that demonstrates the gemetric series and another two page spread discussing how to divide a piece of paper into a prime number of parts. In other words, How would I go about dividing a piece of paper into 11 perfectly equal parts if I can't use a ruler?
I used Kasahara's book with my son when he was about nine and he got a lot out of it.
One of my favorites which results in beautiful pieces but is difficult to make is "Fabulous Origami Boxes" by Tomoko Fuse
And another by Tomoko Fuse which is more comprehensive, this is a thick book, than the others but less motivating because of the black and white photos is "Unit Origami Multidimensional Transformations"
And finally the last one is Mathematical Origami by David Mitchell.
Also I didn't use regular origami paper because it was too expensive for large projects, a project using unit origami can use up hundreds of squares. I bought scrap booking squares in packs of 1000.
Now I've given even that up and just cut the squares with a paper cutter.
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...how do you reply to an earlier post in a thread vs replying to the last post in a thread? I can;t seem to find a way to reply to anything other than what was last posted. Re saving a post, with the old style of board, I could click on a post, then go to my menu bar and click on "save page as". Now, however, that does not work for me. Could anyone tell me how to save a single post from the new board? I have a Macintosh in case that matters. TIA.
To save an individual post as a file to your hard drive:
Click on the post number which is to the left of the justice scales icon.
This will cause a new window to pop up with only that post it in rather than the entire thread.
You can use that as a permanent link in a blog entry, as a reference link in a different post on a different thread, or you can save it to your computer.
To save it to your computer click on file at the top of your screen and save it. You will now be able to view this post offline.
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All the homeschool groups I know of either require a statement of faith or what amounts to a statement of diversity.
The ideal thing for me would be just to meet with folks informally, like friends do, at parks and homes.
Can't help you out with the politics.
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Here is what we do there:
Parents' Forum General Board For general questions about classical education methods, teaching techniques, readiness, supplemental activities, field trips, assessments, frustrations, online resources, etc. or just for hanging out and chatting!
I actually am here just to socialize and not increase post count...actually.
LOL
If there were a java chat room I'd rather be there.
The rep thing got very interesting when I got a lecture on the Nash Equilibrium this evening.
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...what would you want in it? I am creating an open and go curriculum that is based on a 180 day schedule. The "spine" of the curriculum is a four-year chronological history cycle. I'm using SOTW and MOH(for those who want CC) intermixed.
Would you want your readers and read-alouds to correspond with the history period? Or would you rather have "great" or "good" books listed as the readers and read-alouds? (Personally, we just read what we feel are interesting books for this age group)
What else would you include?
I am not including math or LA...there are just too many levels that I would have to incorporate.
Would you want art and music appreciation included? Discluded?
Latin? Greek?
Thanks!
(I am creating this for a particular group that currently does not have a curriculum for their religion...secular materials are very welcome though).
You mean like a curriculum in a box?
That would be a neat idea.
I have always like the K12 art and music classes but I never wanted to shell out that much money for a years worth of art and music.
The problem that I have with curriculum in a box is that it assumes a level of reading comprehension that my children do not always have. Sometimes they need something more challenging and sometimes less, so invidual books that I pick out for them seem to be the way to go.
Something that I could use right now is to be able to buy a kit of all the science equipment I'll need for my science curriculum. Right now I have to piece meal it. That takes up an enormous amount of time.
I hope others respond to this thread.
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I bought a 13 pc bedding/towel set on sale today ($60) at Target and I'm currently in the process of washing the sheets and towels.
I washed them once already but the towels shed so much that the sheets are now covered in pills. I'm washing everything again.
Ok, I just took the sheets out of the wash and they're still covered in towel pills. I'll try drying them separately to see if the lint catcher will get those.
Does anyone have experience with shedding towels? Does it get better with time or do they shed for life?
Ya know?!
I have some towels that I have this shredding problem with and I had never had it before. Now that you bring it up, these are the only towels that I have ever bought from Target. And yes, mine are shredding each time I wash and dry them.
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Has anyone ever heard of this book or read it? Reviews?
Here's a link to the book.
I saw this at our library today and was both intrigued and a little "put off" by the title. Is it another "rigorous education isn't a good thing" type of book?
The subtitle is, "How our Children Really Learn--and Why They Need to Play More and Memorize Less". To be honest, this seems a bit antithetical to a classical education, and I'm wondering where they came up with the title. Honestly, Einstein graduated from German schools; my great-grandfather only went through the 8th grade in a German school but knew some pretty advanced math, so I question the premise.
Still, I haven't read the book and am wondering if anyone has and if it's worthwhile. I do understand the need for children to play----perhaps I just don't understand why they should necessarily memorize less. Are the two mutually exclusive in some way???
Here's a dissenting opinion.
Forty years ago, Laszlo Polgar, a Hungarian psychologist, conducted an epistolary courtship with a Ukrainian foreign language teacher named Klara. His letters to her weren't filled with reflections on her cherubic beauty or vows of eternal love. Instead, they detailed a pedagogical experiment he was bent on carrying out with his future progeny. After studying the biographies of hundreds of great intellectuals, he had identified a common theme—early and intensive specialization in a particular subject. Laszlo thought the public school system could be relied upon to produce mediocre minds. In contrast, he believed he could turn any healthy child into a prodigy. He had already published a book on the subject, Bring Up Genius!, and he needed a wife willing to jump on board.He went on to have three daughters, one of whom became a grandmaster. And that upbringing involved playing chess with dad for hours a day at a very young age.
Entire 8 page article on Polgar
What I like about Polgar is that he isn't just another PhD in education shmuck with an idea to sell, Polgar had the goods. He delivered big.
The other day I was on David Friedman's blog (son of Milton Friedman) and he had a blog entry about how he had unschooled his daughter in math and how it "had worked" because his daughter got an average SAT score in math. Is that what it means for an educational practice "to work"? Average? We'll have to stick around to see what else Friedman's daughter does in life that makes her different from a public school graduate with pushy parents. Although, even if she hit it big, I might attribute that to her father's indirect influence in informally fostering critical thinking skills rather than the unschooling itself. It's not like we flashcard types don't casually discuss issues with our kids at the dinner table.
On the topic of "early and intensive specialization in a particular subject"-- that has been my husbands motto since we began homeschooling. When people find out what our 12 year old is capable of mathwise compared to other kids his age they will say he is "mathy" implying that he has some inherent talent. I've also seen people say that he's just smart. (But we had his IQ tested before we started and we know that he's average) Other people think that it's genetic, Dad has degree in math then son got his mathiness genetically, except this isn't my husband's biological child.
Instead Mr Charon has come up with a crackpot plan much like Polgar, only in math, which goes something like "if you want the usual result in math, then use the usual programs, if you want a special result, then you will have to do something special."
When I read about SWB upbringing, you can see that she did get an intensive education and that her mother did rely on memorization. She also had a specialized education in the sense that she learned from nonstandard sources.
I am always stopping by Drew's blog to hear the latest on his daughter's progress in Latin. He, too, has perhaps adopted a program similar to this--- Intensive specialization in a subject taught using the apprenticeship model rather than pure book larn'in. (So in that sense I agree with your article, memorization alone without guidance, in other words, just turning the crank, won't work)
And by the way, if anyone out there is a musician or artist and has anything to add about this idea of intense specialization from an early age with an expert producing results which most people would attribute to "IQ" I'd love to hear what you are doing...By defintion one can't specialize in everything, but it still makes for fascinating reading.
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. . . "allowed memory size exhausted." Then it occurs to me. The server has been unavailable an awful lot lately. Just what are you gals doing in there 16,000 times?
I only get that error when I try to view the thread in hybrid or threaded mode. There's just too much information to put on the secreen. On the other hand, if you are in linear mode you only download a few messages and can view it.
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One more thing,
I attribute the Singapore Bar Models as the approach that helped prepare my son for full blown algebra in the 6th grade, since he finished the entire arithmetic series early.
This article talks about how bar models work and explains the connection to algebra. My son was completely familiar with the concept of "unknowns" in multiple step problems and as a result of this and calling it "x" was not a leap at all for him but just a tiny step.
Anyone else irrationally biased against lapbooks?
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
how about the ANTI creative school project?
On July 4th we could start a new tradition by blowing up all our school work from the previous academic year. My boys wouldn't get into anything to do with glue or scissors but I think they'd get into this one. Might even be a way to reward them for filing and putting away their schoolwork in the right place. "Blast Books"