myboyluvsdinos
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Posts posted by myboyluvsdinos
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Some of the speech recognition programs are better. Maybe he could talk his text answers.
Yep -- Get him Dragon Naturally Speaking (the premium version), and he should be able to just speak and have the program type for him.
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I use powertyping.com and they have a dvorak section. i haven't looked at it but it should do the job for free if it is as good as the QWERTY keyboard.
Thanks Janice -- I'll check it out!
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Is there any way that you can wait for a few weeks and try again? I say this if you JUST ended school and are now transitioning into a less structured, summer day. If that's the case, then it's hard to figure out what may be the meds and what may be the change in schedule (or possibly more screentime?) Try to change just one variable at a time.
I doubt the appetite loss is due to a change in routine, but the crankiness could be. Especially if she's doing more screen time.
Good luck!
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Yup! This is the one I have. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0047FQZKI/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00 Dvorak has been a MIRACLE for my dd, and the Mavis Beacon lessons are great. I found a keyboard layout (google image, wikipedia, something like that) and printed it out to pin on the monitor. That way she CAN'T peck, because the key labels aren't on the keys and what I'm giving her is up high. She didn't use that very long. It just really came together for her. For me it was the marvel of watching her going from pecking (really hopeless pecking too) to actual, proper touch typing, all fingers on the keys, just like any normal person.
I know that MB version is pricy. There are so many versions. I bought mine before Christmas and there may be a new one. I'm using it on a mac and it works great. I think somebody said they can have issues, but that's what we're using without problems. It specifically says on the amazon page and on the box that it includes lessons for Dvorak, which is why I bought it. So if you want Dvorak, make sure it says that.
I mention Dvorak so much, because it made a huge, huge difference here. My dh thought I was crazy, and my dd thought I was a witch from Oz for making her change. People really resist change even when things aren't going well, kwim? So yes it was a bit of a fuss to change. I lured her by giving her her own email account and actually a whole user account on the computer. I think you can do this on a pc as well. She has a user account, and I have it set up so that her side only works with the Dvorak. On a mac it's a simple toggle, but that can either be buried in preferences or up at the top of the screen, depending on whether you click that box to let it show up there. So that gives you control over whether you give them the ability to change it. To make that change, I had to be a little brutal. I threw her in with the new email account (which she desperately wanted) and the new keyboard layout and put the change for the keyboard setting on password. That meant she had to do it my way or couldn't email her friends, hehe. She learned really, really fast! :lol:
I'll be curious to hear how it goes for you if you make the change! :)
Thanks for the info -- I was curious if your dd had tried qwerty -- guess so! My problem is I have a PC and I can't find a Mavis Beacon WITH Dvorak for a PC -- except for the older versions which won't run on my newer operating system! Frustrating!
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Well if he has any issues with crossing the midline or has tried to learn to type and not had it go well, look into the Dvorak keyboard layout. Yes, you could set the ipad to do Dvorak. You're able to select in the settings the language for the hard keyboard and the soft keyboard. What that means is you can set it to use US for the on-screen keyboard if you want and Dvorak for when you use the wireless keyboard with it. That's what we do. That way it's set up normally for me but uses Dvorak when dd uses it to type papers in Pages.
We love our ipad and especially the ability to use the apps for mindmapping, etc. It can do Pages and type quite well if you use the wireless keyboard. Is he taking this to school? Maybe he'd be happier with an Air? That's a big price difference, sorry. Might help him do more though. You'll just have to think through exactly what he wants to do on it.
As far as software, Mavis Beacon has been awfully good in our house. I basically despaired of typing ever working for her, and Mavis Beacon got her over the hump. It's easy to tell their current wpm. I basically worked up a deal where I told her I'd pay her the wpm in $$ any month she increased by at least 5. She very quickly went from 8 and pecking to 40 wpm. I haven't checked her lately, hehe. That increase was in *4* months! Pretty stunning. We had done programs over the years and she actually got worse as she tried to do more, because she couldn't handle all the up and down. She was pecking and looking at the keys. With Dvorak she can't. Anyways, Mavis Beacon is extremely good. Pricey yes, but worth it.
OhElizabeth,
Did you use Mavis Beacon to teach her the Dvorak? I'm interested in it, because my ds has used qwerty for two years and still isn't very good, but I'm having a hard time finding a typing program that teaches to the Dvorak keyboard.
Thanks!
Carolyn
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These aren't typing programs, but they might help you:
Adaptive Technologies (information from Shelly):
1.For written language assignments, Co:Writer Solo Edition. It includes "flexible spelling and the capability to load topic dictionaries from the site or from, say, Wikipedia. So, if you're writing a paper on Italy, you can load from an online source a "dictionary" of terms/cities, etc., you might need. NB: This software is expensive. But I can already say that it has been worth every penny. Also, it will be appropriate for any postsecondary school my son should choose.
2. For math, we use the Efofex MathPack and SciencePack. This is free with a documented disability. This is to completely lift off any stress of handwriting for advanced math problems.
3. For printing/copying/completion of worksheets on the computer, PaperPort 12 is a direct answer to prayer. Worksheets ("homemade" or his Teaching Textbooks, e.g.) and tests can be scanned onto my son’s laptop, he types in the answers rather than write them by hand, and voila: beautiful product that shows what he really knows rather than (again) draining his batteries working on the mechanics of handwriting.
So far, he's used this with Teaching Textbooks and monkeying around with a grammar workbook. He wants to do Progeny Press' Lord of the Rings studies. This will be fantastic for that purpose.
4. The Inspiration graphic organizing software for any type of written work needing organization. I was so impressed with it when we had the free trial going that I ordered the 3-pack. I wish this thing had been around when I was in school! This is not solely geared for people with "needs". Laura Esquivel used it while writing Like Water for Chocolate.
5. For adapted keyboarding (traditional touch-typing can be difficult to impossible for kids with dysgraphia, depending on its severity), Ultra-Key 5.0 Although Ultra-Key is made to teach touch-typing, we just ignore this and use an adapted keyboarding method.
http://www.bytesoflearning.com
Wow! This is such a helpful list of resources -- thanks so much! My ds, age 12, really struggles with handwriting, and these will really help!
Carolyn
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We gave the windows software a try -- didn't work very well. Then we switched to Dragon. The sales rep on the phone said that the windows software doesn't have the technology that lets it "learn" what you are saying like Dragon does. I have to say, Dragon has worked much better for us. Hope this helps!
Carolyn
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Hi everyone,
I know several weeks ago (or maybe a couple of months?) there were some working memory workbooks that people posted links to. I saved them on my computer and was meaning to buy one, and then my laptop crashed, was fixed, and in the process wiped clean. So now I have no idea what the names of those workbooks are again! So sorry to bother you all again, but I'd really like to order one to work with ds this summer.
Thanks in advance!
Carolyn
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Thanks for all the support, ladies.
I SWEAR the first time I looked at the PROMPT website, it said she was certified. But today, when I checked again, the maps are slightly different, and it says she has only completed the bridging.
She does work for a respectable children's rehab hospital, so I took that as a good sign -- guess I was wrong.
The certified therapists are too far away from us -- like 12 hours, and two states away. So that's not an option.
I did ask her via email to consider not including the stuttering diagnosis in his report, as I'm afraid it will come up again in the future. He's having testing for CAPD beginning on Friday, and I don't want the audiologist to comment on it (same hospital). She said she would note that the family does not see signs of stuttering and she will talk to the audiologist before hand, so they don't comment.
He seems to be over it, and it hasn't come up, so I'm hoping it's behind us.
Thanks again!
Carolyn
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:( Oh Carolyn, I am so sorry. What was that therapist thinking?!?? I'm sitting at my computer feeling quite angry about the whole thing for you and your son.
Just so you know (since we were comparing notes about our sons in previous threads), my ds also had a "stutter" that is not at all really a stutter. I don't think anyone who heard him speak would really describe it as a stutter, but the dysfluencies in his speech patterns were noticeable to me and my dh and a few others. Our SLP had specific term for his speech pattern, but darn it, I can't remember the word she used. Anyway, that speech pattern—"stutter," dysfluency, whatever you want to call it—is almost entirely gone now. It only reappears when he is highly stressed or tired, and even then, it's probably discernible only to me because I'm a little hyper about it.
Did you see the recent post about word retrieval on this board? I wrote about a few resources there. The naming within a category does help with word retrieval, but the underlying strategy has to do with creating multiple associations with words—visual, symbolic, categorical, even etymological, whatever works with your particular kid. Mine seems to have an affinity for words (as contradictory as that sounds, since he has a language disorder and word retrieval issues :rolleyes:). He likes to talk about words, figure out the syllabication, learn about their origins, play with rhymes and meter, think about antonyms, etc. All of that helps build associations with specific words. For content area vocabulary (geographical names, for example, are particularly tough), we use lots and lots of visuals and play games. These are strategies that work with my particular kid's learning style. I'm sure the specifics will be different with your son, but I just wanted to suggest that there are many, many strategies that help to develop word retrieval.
Anyway, I just wanted to post and offer support. :grouphug:
Thanks for the support -- it means a lot! I'm going to send you a private email sometime in the next day or so. Hope that's okay. :)
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After hearing about some other's great experience with PROMPT therapists, I located one in my area and had my 12-year-old ds evaluated last week. A few of you may remember that he has disjointed speech, with low working memory and processing speed, hypotonia, coordination issues, etc. etc. He was also diagnosed with apraxia at age 2.
Anyhow, while I don't have the report, she said that she didn't think any of his past apraxia is at play in his speech difficulties. He seemed to do well on many of the tests she performed, but most of those involved single word utterances. But when she administered tests that involved longer replies, I could start to see the difficulties. Not too bad, but still noticeable by me (not sure what he scored on that test, yet).
But then she had him tell her about a TV show that he recently watched. I thought he did a decent job, for him. When he finished, she informed him that he is stuttering! She went on and on, lecturing him about this and telling him that he can't let it hold him back, and that he's got to push himself to join the speech team, yadayadayada. He was totally shocked and was just trying to hold himself together, without crying. I finally told him to go to the waiting room, and she and I talked. No one in our entire extended family has ever heard what we would call a stutter, although if you go by a SLP's definition, I guess his pauses and halting speech qualify. It was a bad situation because he was so upset to get this news, and I knew it would make him totally anxious in social situations and not want to speak, so I tried to convince him he really doesn't stutter, and that the therapist was off-base (I do sort of believe this). I was able to smooth it over (I had to lie and tell him that after he left, I had her listen to my speech, and she said I also stutter, which he knew was ridiculous.)
In the end, I still think his word-retrieval issues are the problem, along with his low working memory. The two together cause him to pause and speak slowly with less automaticity. I asked her about just some simple exercises to help with word retrieval, and she said to name items in categories for 5-10 min. a day. So we are doing that, and this summer I plan to get some of the recommended workbooks for improving working memory and go through as much as we can.
Just wanted to report back on how it panned out for us.
Carolyn
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I bought Balametrics about a year ago. We did it for about a month, at which time we stopped because we started up neurofeedback, and I didn't want two new therapies going on at the same time. Then we unexpectedly moved to a new state, and my ds is now in a private school, so we don't have time to do the Balametrics.
As to whether it's effective, my instinct is that it can be, depending on what the person's issues are. But you've got to commit to doing it regularly (5xs a week?) for several months before you'll know if it's helping (at least that's what the OT said).
I have heard from several parents who said they really noticed improvement for their ADHD kids when they started doing really rigorous exercise -- one child started playing hockey 4xs a week. One therapist told me heavy, weight-bearing activities can really help some ADHD kids. That might be another option to try at the beginning of the school day. I know one_michelle says she starts out their day with exercise, and I can totally see how that would help. Just a thought...
Carolyn
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We've had similar problems with both my boys. In our case, I do think it's a word retrieval problem. Either they can't find the right word, or they accidentally get the wrong one. I just had a speech eval on my 12-year-old, and the therapist said to do 5-10 min. a day of naming objects in categories. For example, name as many vegetables as possible. Then make it harder by naming those that are green. Or those that are root veggies, etc. She claimed that if you do that for daily for 2 weeks, you'll start to notice a difference. I plan to try -- if you do, please report back as to if you noticed a difference.
Hope this helps!
Carolyn
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Thanks for taking the time to detail what you did. It sounds amazing! You must be really good at time management, organization, etc. I think it's best to work on things a little bit, more frequently, and it sounds like you've basically incorporated your "therapies" into your lifestyle -- with amazing success, I might add. Congrats to you and your boys! :001_smile:
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So we talked to the school psych (who did the reading/math testing) today. I am so frustrated. She said her reading scores were low. Especially nonsense words & phoneme segmentation. But since they weren't technically at 2.0 (she was at 1.65) that they won't do anything about it. In another 1.5 months, she is supposed to be at a 67 on some test and she's at 24 right now. And since she tracked her finger left to right when she was reading that she's not dyslexic. :confused:
Basically we got nowhere at all. And they said the audiologist won't even take anyone until they're 8, so we have to wait 6 more months. But our insurance still isn't working right, so we can't even get in a doctor for an eval. So basically we just spent the last few months at the school testing and wasting our time.
My understanding is that a school will test to see if a child is ELIGIBLE for services (if their scores are low enough to qualify). They do not do DIAGNOSTIC testing (which tells you what the problem is).
There's no way you can truly test for Auditory Processing Disorder using some quick "Earobics" computer test. It has to be done by a audiologist who specializes in this sort of testing. My ds will be having it done at a children's hospital in 2 weeks -- the evaluation is conducted in two separate sessions by an audiologist.
Bombing the nonsense words is a big red flag for dyslexia. I second the advice of the poster who recommended the Barton site. You can get tons of info on it, and you can take matters into your own hands and start helping her, even while waiting on other testing. And to say that she is not dyslexic because she used her finger to track while reading is, frankly, idiotic! If anything, it could indicate she has some visual tracking difficulties, so using the finger helps her keep her place. (Or it can be normal, too.)
Honestly, I've seen lots of people try to get their kids help from the school district, and I've never once been impressed. Either they can't get their kids to qualify, or if they do, the "help" they receive doesn't actually help. Our old school district provided a type of remediation that actually further ingrained dyslexia.
After all we've been through, I'm convinced it's often best to take matters into your own hands, especially if you're in a rural area where specialists are scarce. I would read up on the Barton website, see if you think she's dyslexic (have her tested by a Barton tester, if possible), and either hire a tutor or do it yourself. There's a huge market for used Barton levels, so you can get most of your money back.
Good luck!
Carolyn
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I read back through each write up once more yesterday. I'm at the point where not only is there nothing else I can do with that information, but today they seem like different individuals.
Wow! Congrats! Can you give a couple of specific examples of an issue, and what you did to work on it? My guy's stuff just seems to stick with us, year after year. So it would be helpful to me to hear a couple of examples. I tend to get overwhelmed. :001_huh:
Thanks!
Carolyn
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She did tell me that the reason she *hates* (her word) Barton is because it is for babies. Maybe it will get better with the next level but since it seems well below her reading level I doubt it. When I called Barton they advised me to go through all the levels starting with 1 to ensure there are no gaps. I will mention it again when I call for advice.
Thanks for your thoughts!!
Barton quickly gets tough. There's a BIG jump from level 3 to 4, and I can tell you from experience, it's not at all babyish. If you can get her to stick with it, it's the best program out there (obviously just my opinion). You do need to start with level 1, as it sets the stage for the other levels. If it's easy, just breeze through it and consider it a confidence booster before it starts getting tough. There is a huge resale market for Barton, so you can probably get about 75% of your investment back if you resale the products. Good luck!
Carolyn
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As always, I appreciate your advice, OhE. I'm a little bummed because once again, since we live in fairly rural area, I've got only one provider in my area, and I will have to commit to a ton of driving if I get totally obsessive about finding the highest certified provider and all that. The nearest person is Level 1. The nearest Level 2/Bridging is over two hours away, and then there are only 2 people from which to choose. The nearest certified provider is over three hours away. *sigh*
I'm not sure if motor control is exactly what I'm seeing with my ds's articulation, but he clearly has pervasive motor control issues, so I think it's worth checking out. Thanks for the additional information! :001_smile:
I'm running into the same problem. I tried to contact the level 2 clinician in our city, and her phone just rang and rang -- no voice mail? So then I emailed her, but haven't heard anything. I'm wondering if she's no longer here. About 3 hours away is a level 1 provider, but there's no way I'm doing that. :001_huh:
So now what? Wait 15 years for the PROMPT book to come out?
I will say that while I think this idea is worth pursuing, I think that my guy has so many variables that contribute to his speech issues that this still would not be a magic bullet for him. He's also got the poor working memory, slow processing speed, word retrieval, dyslexia, and his introverted personality.
Carolyn
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Don't you just love these idiots? Sigh. Um, if he had the motor control problems of apraxia, he has apraxia. If they didn't continue therapy and he now is having issues (sorry, I've totally forgotten your original post, I'm in lala land), then that's what I would go back to. Dyslexia doesn't cause disjointed speech. Dyslexia per the DSM is a READING DISORDER. The way we use the term is much looser. The apraxia is causing the disjointed speech. Personally, what I would do in your shoes is find the *best* PROMPT therapist. Google the PROMPT INSTITUTE AND USE THEIR MAP. Find someone who is certified or better if you can. The bridging course would do. Don't get a newbie who has only done level 1. Call that person and pick their brain. See if what you need is a speech eval or a referral to someone else.
BTW, what you're describing about his struggles getting his thoughts out are a CLASSIC symptom of under-treated apraxia. I'm not meaning to be cruel. I'm just saying that's what happens. PROMPT has only been out about 8-10 years. It would have been so new when your son was evaluated that it would have been extremely unlikely you could have found one. But now it's easy to find a PROMPT therapist.
See what causes the reluctance to speak and the difficulty getting it out is that it's taking so much EFFORT the therapy will first make sure he has motor control (sometimes people form letters the wrong way to cover poor motor control) and then give it support and practice to get it to where it's EASY and natural. When it is, his speech will improve. My ds doesn't have those problems coming out, but I've talked with dc with apraxia who didn't receive PROMPT who do. It doesn't have to stay that way.
It's probably not just one thing. But that's where I would start. :)
Well, Hmmmm. Honestly, after all these years and tons of various therapies, I never thought about it being undertreated apraxia. I can kind of see it, though, because he has low muscle tone and poor motor planning/coordination on his ENTIRE body, so I guess that makes sense. In his case, he also has poor working memory, so maybe the two combined would cause a double-whammy problem.
I looked up PROMPT and found there is a lower-trained provider near us (we live in Idaho). I will call her and see what she says. I'm REALLY glad you took the time to write your comments. It could end up leading to something worthwhile for my ds. THANKS!!!!!!!!!:001_smile:
Carolyn
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Yes! I have always thought that the GT side of my son is way more LD than his LD side. Or maybe it's just the combination of the two. It is really hard to find people that understand this.
How old is your son? Prefrontal development is delayed in HG kids. My son is 14 and many "issues" are resolving themselves with time (oh yeah and 10 levels of Barton and hours of me helping him learn to write etc.). He still has obvious delays in word retrieval.
Yes, I've read about the delayed brain development in HG kids. My guy is 12. I keep hoping a more mature brain in a few years will help. And yep -- we've done the Barton thing -- we'll do level 9 this summer, as my son went to private school this year. It definitely has helped, and I'm hoping to become a Certified Barton Tutor this summer. Glad to hear that time has helped your son. :001_smile:
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Hi Carolyn,
My ds has a different diagnosis than yours (Developmental Coordination Disorder and Expressive Language Disorder instead of dyslexia), but I often wonder if my son is some sort of remediated dyslexic, as so many of his traits and symptoms match up with the more general "profile" of a dyslexic student. Anyway, my son also has low working memory, poor word retrieval, and disjointed speech patterns—all of which have been remediated to some extent recently.
So I guess what I'm suggesting is that you may not need a full program on verbal expression if you remediate working memory. It's a simple place to start, and especially since you've already documented that your ds has low working memory, I highly recommend that you remediate that issue before trying to tackle the more complex language issues that rely on a functioning working memory to begin with.
Thanks for your response. My guy also has Developmental Coordination Disorder and Expressive Language Disorder. And low muscle tone. And poor motor planning. And poor bilateral integration. Sensory Integration Disorder. You name it, he's probably been diagnosed with it, (except for Autism spectrum disorders, which we explored at one time). Since he was 11 months old we've done p/t, o/t, s/t, v/t, neurofeedback, yadayadayada. A few helped some, especially if it targeted muscle control. But I've spend A LOT of money on stuff that didn't help.
Anyhow, back to the working memory issue, which is supposedly a biggee for him (and I do believe that). I spent a good hour searching for your posts and got a better idea of what you SLP did during therapy. Thanks -- that was helpful! Now trying to FIND someone as skilled and knowledgeable as yours isn't easy. We just moved from a rural area to a bigger city, so maybe I'll be able to locate someone. I sort of gave up on therapies a few years ago, because I found most weren't helpful, and the research and subsequent therapies that I did were often the most helpful. WHY ISN'T THERE A BOOK WITH SIMPLE EXERCISES (LIKE DIGIT SPANS) TO IMPROVE WORKING MEMORY?:banghead: Maybe there is, and I don't know about it. If anyone knows one, please tell me!!!!!
I also discovered, through reading your posts, that we've read many of the same books, like the Eides (I met them personally!), VSL, etc. So that was interesting. We'll have to chat more! :001_smile: Thanks again for your help!
Carolyn
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Hi Marie -- thanks for your thoughts on executive functioning. We have explored that. He had a neuropsych eval last summer, and the doc said his executive functioning is decent, but that his very low working memory is the main problem. Who knows?!?!
Carolyn
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Did he ever get a speech eval? Was he a late talker by chance? I'm not sure the problems you're talking about are dyslexia. You could be seeing remnants of a speech problem (apraxia, whatever) that is making it hard for him to get his thoughts out.
Yes -- diagnosed with apraxia at age 2, but then that diagnosis was retracted when he supposedly progressed too quickly. From everything I've read, early speech issues are a symptom of dyslexia.
Now, after 12 years, I think his disjointed speech is due to severe dyslexia (still severe after 8 levels of Barton), low working memory, poor word retrieval, and his very gifted brain (yes -- believe it or not I do think that contributes because I believe his neural connections are more far-reaching than normal and less specialized, which therefore results in more time processing all the connections that are occuring and then organizing that info. He has had IQ testing, also.)
Just my crazy theories, however. :001_smile:
Carolyn
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We've had similar issues. Now, at 12, my ds still really struggles to speak in a clear manner. I've read that in the dyslexic mind, automaticity often takes longer to develop, and I really see that in my guy.
I've been looking (for years) for a VERBAL program that uses a systematic, explicit, and multisensory method to teach how to speak. For example, just having my son be able to answer the question, "How was summer camp?" in a clear, organized manner, would be very difficult -- still. The program would maybe lead them through mentally thinking about their top 5 interesting things they did at camp. And then organizing those, maybe chronologically in this case, and then describing them. You have to be able so speak well BEFORE you can write well. Anyone heard of such a program?
New and lost! Need help for my dyslexic 8yr old.
in The Learning Challenges Board
Posted
It's actually pretty simple. Her symptoms do sound suspicious for dyslexia. Please understand that schools will NOT diagnose dyslexia (long reason why -- suffice it to say that they don't want to remediate it).
There is TONS of research out there that all comes to the same conclusion: the most effective way to remediate dyslexia is through an Orton-Gillingham program. This is not an opinion, it is a fact. There are many O-G programs, however Barton is mentioned often as it was designed for parents to implement themselves.
Most of the time, dyslexics will not qualify for special ed services. However, if they do manage to get something, it's most often not what they need (again -- they need an O-G program). There are some schools that are coming around and providing 0-G remediation, but they are rare. So don't get excited that she's qualified for something, as it's likely not going to help. Often schools will work on fluency only, which is terrible for dyslexics because what they really need is decoding work. Once they can decode accurately, then the fluency comes up. Fluency training without decoding will actually just reinforce guessing, which is a common and damaging strategy that dyslexics use.
Yes Barton is expensive. However, if you buy a level at $300, you can sell it within a few days for $250. It has an incredibly high resale value. The entire first Barton level is phonemic awareness, which your daughter will absolutely need to be successful in ANY reading/spelling program. It takes many children 3-5 years to complete all 10 levels.
Parents spend so much time piecing together programs and trying this and trying that. It's really pretty simple: use an O-G program. They work the best, and it's not just my opinion, it's a fact!
As for the vision therapy, I agree you will find people on this board who've had much success with it. I tried it for my severely dyslexic ds. We worked diligently for 6 months, and it did nothing. However, once I started using an O-G program, the progress came. He is now in 6th grade, and just tested in the 97%ile for reading!!!!! (He has gone through the first 8 levels of Barton.) Research supports the use of O-G programs for dyslexia, but it doesn't support VT. Does that mean it never helps? No -- I truely believe it helps some kids, but since that isn't being replicated in scientific studies, it leads me to believe it's not the typical outcome.
Hope this helps and good luck!