Kate in Arabia
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Posts posted by Kate in Arabia
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I don't think this is such a foreign concept, it sounds to me like an older version of a "mommy and me" class. Actually, if they offered such a thing in my area, I would be really interested to sign up. For once or twice a month I could probably make arrangements for my other kids, and it would be a nice opportunity to do an activity with one child where we are both focused together -- like a special "date". As it is, I try to arrange dates with my kids individually, but it's usually just taking one ds alone to a coffee shop (would likely cost as much as this class, lol); or taking dd with me to a Mary Kay demo (would cost as much if we bought anything); or taking ds hiking with an organized group; etc. They are ecstatic to have alone time with me and it would be fun to have a shared experience.
I guess I don't see it as so out there, and if the OP cares to fly however-many-miles over here, lol, I would sign up! If I was organizing, I might play up more the opportunity for a shared experience with your child.
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Do you feel that most Muslims in your circles tend to feel distance or animosity towards Jews? If yes, what steps do you think that Jews could take to bring our faiths closer together? (I don't necessarily mean this as a political question, but more on an everyday, interpersonal basis.)
Most, no. Some, yes. How I look at it, the more personal interaction I can get, the better. Before moving overseas I seriously was wanting to set up a Jewish/Muslim playgroup. I make a concerted effort to confront my kids about some of the attitudes they are exposed to here (anti-Semitic is one, racism is a more prevalent other), but I think it would be even better if they could have Jewish friends. To my knowledge, they do not. Yet. ;)
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Forgive me for what is probably an ignorant question. I'm not sure if it's "political" or just religious. lol What is the difference between a Shiite and Sunni Muslim? I ask because it's in the news so much right now and the only way I've ever looked at it is like denominations in Christianity. But is that even an acceptable comparison? Are the differences doctrinal, if that's the proper term?
As mentioned, the split started early. There were several serious events that happened early on between the Sunni and Shi'a, and if you look at the overall history of the region it seems an almost constant overthrow of a Shi'a group by a Sunni group that is then overthrown by a Shi'a group that is then overthrown... if you look at the "classical period" of Islam, major Sunni scholars and major Shi'a scholars interacted and learned from each other, but the scholarly traditions did develop somewhat autonomously.
I, personally, don't see the Shi'a as being so different from the Sunni, I see them as fellow Muslims, etc. etc. But I have run into a fair amount of people in my travels who still feel quite strongly on this matter. As we're reading through SOTW my kids have been struck by the Protestant/Catholic conflicts in Europe -- I wonder if there are still people historically from one side of that conflict who harbor animosity towards the other...
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I was on a jury back when I was in college and I did not like the experience at all. I think I have posted somewhere here about this before. My case was a paternity one, pre-DNA evidence so he said/she-said. In the deliberating room I was the only juror who felt the man was innocent, but I couldn't articulate why; there was something that bothered me but I couldn't figure it out. So in the end, with all the other, older jurors glaring at me for wasting their time, I relented and went with them. But I hated that I couldn't figure out what was bothering me, that I was too young/inexperienced to stand up for myself in a group like that; that what we decided that day had a big impact on someone's life.
As we were leaving I asked the alternate what he thought, and he said he also would have voted not guilty, but I didn't have the wherewithal to ask him why. Obviously the experience really stuck with me, I can still remember the faces of people on that jury panel. I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but it was a really sobering experience for me, personally. I went into it excited and interested and came out.... different.
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I usually only find it odd when the older person in the relationship is a girl/woman dating a 17 year old boy. There is such a difference b/t the maturity level of girls vs boys.
Well, I guess I'm odd. Dh was 18 and I was 23 when we first met. He was 20 and I was 25 when we got married, twenty years ago this Dec. I find it can be difficult to generalize.
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We had a similar episode when I was growing up. Except unfortunately no one discovered the skunk-dog altercation until the dog -- having been sprayed liberally in the face -- ran inside the house and proceeded to wipe his snout over just about every surface he could reach in a effort to escape the smell (poor thing). This included my school uniform -- it was my first day of high school, and I spent the first half of the day in a new school sitting by open windows, until finally I was given the choice of going home to change (not possible because it was too far) or borrowing one of the used uniforms kept in the office.
My dad was also the one left to deal with our poor dog -- he went the tomato juice route. It was mostly effective, although for many months afterwards whenever the dog got wet there was a strong smell of skunk..
I agree with the do-over... I wish I could have had a do-over of that school day, lol. I wanted to stay home but my mom refused... I wonder if I would have done the same thing in her shoes...
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Thanks, hopefully it will work out! :)
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Thanks for your comments.. do you think it matters that I'm an adjunct and the instructor is a full professor? I am not even on the official faculty list, so he won't know who I am, kwim?
I'm probably making too much out of this...
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I teach English part time at a local university, and I was able to root out the school's course auditing policy which allows anyone to audit a course provided that there is space on the roster and that the instructor agrees.
I'm interested in having ds take the beginner chemistry course for non-science majors next fall to count as his high school chemistry (he will be a junior). They have a lab, and I have already contacted our umbrella school in the US and gotten the ok to use that towards his chemistry credit. I live in a small town, and at this smaller school the students are all non-native English speakers, although the courses are all taught in English. So I personally feel that ds -- who will be 17 in Dec -- should be fine. I feel that it would be a good opportunity for him to get a feel for a college course, and he is interested in trying something different.
The only sticking point, aside from the class becoming too full, is getting the professor's ok. I'm not sure the best way to approach it. On the one hand, I will be involved to an extent in that I will be monitoring ds' progress with the course and need to make sure that he is actually learning. Technically he wouldn't need to take the exams as an audit, but I would want him to and use those to go towards his "grade". On the other hand, I don't know how a professor would react if a student came to him with his mom to ask permission to join the course. Would that put him off right away?
To complicate things, homeschooling is still pretty unknown here and especially among the non-Westerners is generally frowned upon. Of course the professor is a non-Westerner, so I'm not confident of how he will feel towards the whole situation. Or maybe he won't care at all.
So if anyone has done this kind of thing before, I'd appreciate any advice. Ds is friendly and somewhat outgoing, but at 16 he isn't the biggest go-getter or advocate for himself either. He can't register as a student at this school for one course, his only option is to audit. Or I could look for a tutor (but lose the lab option). Or we could do chemistry online and/or at home.
Would it be better for ds and I to approach him together? Would it be better for ds to go alone? Or should I try and find someone I know who knows the prof -- I do know the math professor there and a couple of other professors, but unfortunately not this one -- and go the "personal influence" route?
Maybe it isn't that unusual for parents to still be involved with college freshmen students?
Thoughts?
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Thanks for all the responses! It's given me more to consider, not sure yet which way I'll go, lol...
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I'm trying to sort and sell/donate, I have several book sets that I loved as a child. I held onto them thinking I would pass my love of them on to my kids -- well, that didn't work. No interest. Series like Beatrix Potter, The Dark is Rising, etc. None of my three kids had any interest, and for some of these series my kids are now beyond that reading level.
So. Do I keep or do I sell/donate? I think it somewhat odd that I saved these books for 40-ish years in the hopes my kids would want them; they didn't, so now I'm going to save them for 30-ish more years in the hopes my hypothetical grandkids might like them? Or maybe I'll feel nostalgic at different times over the years and want to read them again?
I can't decide. I hate all the excess baggage in our house, but I'm so sentimental I have a hard time letting go.
What would you do? :)
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If it was me, I would contact my local shelter and have all the cats taken in to be evaluated; if I wanted to keep one it would be the mom, but be prepared that if you say you want any of them they will likely ask you to pay for whatever medical treatment is done. Here they will spay/neuter and evaluate the cat for free, but only if you sign the cat over to them and they may or may not release him/her back to your outdoor area -- it is their call to make.
We have a lot of feral cats in our neighborhood; they pretty much never warm up to people. I have a hard time thinking of your cat as feral, and she lets your kids be around her kittens; every feral cat I have seen -- which is a lot -- the females will run almost as soon as they see you notice them, and they train their kittens to be the same. The toms will stand and stare you down, lol, but the female cats will almost always run and hide, or just hide if they can get out of your line of sight.
We have a feral kitty outside that we've been feeding now for many months, and she will just now allow you to get about six feet away from her, and even with that she is crouched and ready to run. My local animal shelter conducts a trap-neuter-release program, I have already contacted them about coming out to catch her (although I think she's already had a batch of kittens). They will trap the cat and take her in to be evaluated -- here you have to sign a release form basically signing the cat over to them and they will do whatever they deem fit. Ideally they want to fix them and then place them back where they were, but if the cat is ill at all (and you can't always tell just by looking at them) it will be euthanized; and feral kittens that are older kittens I believe are also euthanized, as it is a lot of work and not even always possible to tame them -- there are a lot of tame kittens already, the shelters here are full. I assume it isn't completely different in the US in that regard.
Last summer we had a feral cat and her two kittens take up residence in our ceiling -- there is an opening up on our roof and they climbed in and got into the central ac system, we had mewling and little paws poking down from the ceiling vents (we don't use the central AC). I called the shelter and they came out and set traps, caught all three, and after evaluating determined that the cat was not a good candidate for the TNR program, and the kittens were too old to be easily domesticated, so unfortunately they all had to be euthanized. I am telling you that because once you involve a shelter -- and I completely am of the opinion you should -- the decision as to what happens to the cat and kittens will be out of your hands unless you say you want them and pay for whatever treatment is needed. My kids were old enough to understand, but obviously we were all saddened by the necessity of it.
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I tried 5:2 for about a month and it made me horribly hangry (hungry + angry) by the end of my fasting day, plus I ate like a garbage disposal the next day. I know the research (or some of it) says that people don't consume the extra calories the following day, but I definitely did.
It may not really be germaine to this discussion, but I wanted to mention that it is a common aspect of Ramadan fasting that people gain weight. Common. I think it is really easy for most people to justify overeating/eating junk food after a fast. And maybe it isn't all a mental thing, but your body strongly compelling you. I also personally find it more physically draining overall the older I get -- if I had a very intense exercise routine that might suffer.
It is actually discussed a lot in the period leading up to Ramadan, how to try and keep a healthy lifestyle balance while fasting.
Sorry for butting in.
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This made me smile, as does the title of the young adult novel by an Australian Muslim author called 'Does my Head Look Big in This?'
There's a fashion trend here where some girls actually want their heads to look bigger, lol, or at least the hair part. I know many will use those big hair clips with giant flowers and feathers and things underneath the scarf to pouf it out, but I've heard rumors that some even attach stuff under there like empty plastic yogurt containers, lol, trying to get more height. I haven't seen that myself to know if it's true; I mean, you often see girls in the mall restrooms adjusting scarves and things, so you can see the big clips, but I haven't noticed any, umm, hardware lol.
On a related note, I wonder if there are lists like that for the local guys' headscarf (gutra)? I've seen them struggling with it sometimes, I know from dh that there is a lot that goes into arranging it and keeping it arranged. One afternoon I was waiting in a parking lot for one of the kids to come out from a lesson and there was a young lad who parked, got out of his car, and spent the next twenty-odd minutes adjusting and re-adjusting his headwear in the car window reflection. lol. So I guess we're not the only ones! Plus I have never ever heard of a man using pins!
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Yes, it's what Katy said. There's an undercurrent of "be modest for the boys/men because they are visual and your bodies are tempting" throughout discussions on female modesty. There's also talk of "self-respect," but without real empowerment for girls/women to dress how they feel most comfortable and self-confident I found it to be hollow. Plus, it causes some people to judge any girl who shows her shoulders or legs or whatever as lacking self-respect or as being "slutty" due to her "immodesty."
I think this is the sticky point. How does a girl determine what dress makes her feel empowered? It has been said here that if a girl chooses to cover more and says it's her choice for her own personal comfort, it is in fact likely a patriarchal social conditioning. I think people could also see it the other way, that if she chooses to wear less it is also a product of social conditioning, and not necessarily stemming from her own innate preferences.
I guess the question then becomes, is there such a thing as innate preferences, or in the matter of dress and clothing are we always guided to whatever choices we make by societal pressure? (whether that be to dress in accordance with or in defiance of societal norms)
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You know what I've noticed about Muslim women with the full body gear (there are many in my area)? They wear stuff like flip flops even in winter. I often wonder if that is some sort of subtle "in your face" sort of thing.
For those who do the full body gear, there is an "official" difference of opinion whether or not feet *must* be covered. As in, some jurisprudence schools say you must, and at least one says you don't. This came up for me last semester when one of my students (local girl) kept "advising" me that I should wear socks. :/ (I rarely wear socks, I wear slip-on sandals pretty much always.)
About the flip flops specifically, obviously I can't speak for everybody, but for myself and most people I know wearing slip on shoes is much, much easier when you are constantly needing to take off/put on your shoes (no shoes in houses, no shoes in masjids, need to remove shoes to do wudu', etc.)
Don't want to burst your bubble though, lol...
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Do Hindus have clothing rules? I've know a few Hindus. Except that they wore the long flowing sash dress things (whatever they are called) that was all there was too it. I thought it was just a type of dress they were used to. It didn't strike me as particularly modest and looked comfy. I'm referring to women. I only knew some Hindu women. In fact one I knew flipped beef burgers all day (rather ironic).
But I don't know squat about Hinduism.
I was gifted a saree when I got married. I thought it was beautiful, and once on it was (if I do say so myself) quite flattering to my body type -- unlike the shalwar khamees which, frankly, looks terrible on me. But not being used to it I found it really *uncomfortable* to wear, as I was constantly afraid the whole thing was going to unravel. At least the way it was put on me, there was a lot of pleating and tucking, and a few safety pins involved; and as I wore it things kept shifting and loosening. I likely needed more time and experience.
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For what it's worth, I can see the difference between wearing modern clothes without a hijab, and wearing short shorts to school. The similarity isn't in the amount of fabric. It's certainly not the intensity of the potential punishment one faces for breaching patriarchal protocol. Clearly the kind of slut-shaming that would suggest a teen student looks like a prostitute (the very epitome of slut-shaming), or the subsequent, indirect consequences like restricted access to reproductive autonomy isn't equal to 70 lashes. I don't suggest or imply they are. The similarity is in challenging conventional, arbitrary correlations, and taking control of one's own person, even if it means people will try anything to force compliance.
Does this also work in the reverse? In those communities where, for example, hijab is banned, is it a courageous form of asserting personal beliefs when women wear it anyway and are fined and/or arrested? or are they erroneously clinging to an outmoded patriarchal custom?
I don't think it is entirely accurate to say only those who wear less or more revealing clothes face societal pressure - the opposite also happens. The question is, are they both coming from the same place and should they be regarded in the same light.
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Eliana,
I was asking about the particular sort of "modesty" that insists women look as unattractive as possible because any sort of beauty is considered evil. I suspect it comes from a particular brand of Christianity because that's the only place I've seen it except for in descriptions of Muslim beliefs of why women should be fully hidden. It seems to imply that both women's bodies are inherently evil and that men are helpless to control themselves. I've met Muslim men who really believed that simply hearing the voices of any Muslim women who they weren't related to could condemn them to hell - women were just too tempting (or Muslim women at least).
If you are going to be careful in stating a "particular brand" of Christianity, should you not also say a "particular brand" of Muslim? Muslims are not unanimous in their beliefs towards modesty.
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I've thought about telling my mom for years, but lately she's had so much chaos with my dad's health, it feels unfair to pile anything else on her.
I've thought about it as well, but I figure now she's older and it would probably only hurt her -- to know that I suffered back then and it still impacts me today. What could she do about it now? Would it be helpful to me to tell her? I don't know...
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Yes, my two people one in elementary school, one in middle school. It was emotional abuse, not physical, and both about things about my body that I couldn't change. At the time it only made me feel alone and like a loser. I was about 37 went I literally stopped one day while looking in the mirror and realized how internalized those voices were. I heard their hateful words in my voice. I've had a horrible body image for most of my life, low self-esteem, all stemming from those situations.
I went through an emotionally releasing at 37. It's not all gone, but I don't hear their words I look in the mirror. I'm 47 now and still not totally comfortable in my own skin, but I don't hate it in the way I used to.
This is very similar to my experiences. It was so ingrained I had never really examined it until last year I was looking through old family photos with my kids, and they asked why I was never in any of our pictures. I thought about it and said that actually it's low self-esteem -- I have hated having my picture made going back to about that time -- and my younger ds said, "but Mommy, you're beautiful!" So sweet, I wish I could take his words to heart and not just dismiss them as something any child would say about his mother. But those many years of negative experiences while growing up are hard to dislodge...
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We live and homeschool in Denmark, and we have been here almost three years. I will try to answer a few of the upthread questions.
Have any of you homeschooled high school while living overseas? If so, I would like to know your experiences.
We are currently homeschooling one high schooler, 10th grade, and my second ds is finishing 7th so another around the corner. When we were getting ready to start 9th grade dh, ds and I sat down and had a discussion. Did he want to try a brick-and-mortar school? Options in our home city are severely limited -- basically only one school. We are regulars at the school for sports, so I've had a lot of opportunities over the years to talk with the moms and nearly every one of them recommended against putting him in school there for high school. Many people here either send their kids home for high school (boarding school or stay with family), or leave when their kids reach that age; what that means is that the main student body ends up being non-native English speakers. Nothing wrong with that in theory, but then the level of instruction is lowered to meet the needs of the bulk of students.
There is a range of schools available in Dubai, but that would mean long drives each morning and afternoon; and the better schools are really expensive.
So that left us with continuing with Clonlara. We had a long (over an hour) discussion with our adviser there, and after all that decided to continue with Clonlara. I have been happy with that choice. We haven't tried outside tutors yet, but I am seriously considering that or trying to find a way for ds to audit a chemistry course next year at one of the local colleges. On the one hand, they are not used to homeschoolers here so that can make things difficult -- but on the other hand, you also find such a range of backgrounds in the expat community that it is very possible to find a unique opportunity, kwim?
We also talked about whether to move back, but we have complicating issues because of my inlaws. I know I wasn't asked, but regarding staying here permanently, it is virtually impossible to get citizenship where I live (if I wanted to, which I don't), and at the end of the day once your work visa expires and you are deemed too old to work anymore, you will have to leave.
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So I live in the US and always have. I've lived in this town for 20 years but still people see us as outsiders. Is it like that where you are now? Or anywhere else you have lived? It kind of drives me nuts. We moved from Atlanta 20 years ago so those people don't consider us Atlantans, but neither do the folks here!
We are outsiders, and even in the expat community we are in the minority as Americans. But there is near overwhelming appreciation by the local population of us as Americans; I live in a smaller city and I still run into people occasionally who have never met an American Muslim, and being able to speak the language is an enormous bonus. It is very, very easy to get by only knowing English here, but knowing Arabic has been a help on a local-societal level.
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I think it makes more sense too, but unless everyone in the US is doing integrated math, it is too hard to implement, because we don't have a static population. I moved from CA to AZ halfway through highschool, and it was a headache for them to figure out where to put me. Both my schools had non-integrated programs, but my school in CA had full-year courses for geometry and Trig, and they did not offer pre-calculus (after trig, you went straight into calculus). My school in AZ offered a 1-year geo/trig combination, and it was expected you'd take pre-calculus.
I can only imagine the mess of trying to move between an integrated curric and a non-intergrated one.
An additional issue for us, my kids take a US standardized exam each year, and each year I have the conversation of "you are not following a US math program so you may see things on the test we haven't covered yet," and nearly each year this has happened on a few questions. If tests are important.
let's talk multiple cats and litter boxes
in The Chat Board
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I had never known anyone irl who used two litter boxes, including myself growing up with cats. Even with our prior cat. With our present cat, adopted a couple of months ago, he has a litter box on the main floor of the house but continually found a spot in the basement to use as well. I tried several methods to discourage it, but in the end the easiest thing to do was to put a second box down there. He uses both somewhat equally.