Seeker of Schole
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Posts posted by Seeker of Schole
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We aren't CM at all, though. The impression I get from books and blogs is that, if CM-educated children do this sort of thing, it's in spite of the method, not because of it. By contrast, some other methods (Montessori, Robinson, Ella Frances Lynch) are designed to create independent learners, from an early age.
This isn't the same as "multum non multa," but I do think that the approaches that favor independent learning are more compatible with that philosophy. If the child is expecting mom or teacher to help them with everything, and she's only teaching a few core subjects, then they're going to be really limited.
One of my favorite CM quotes is "Self-education is the only possible education; the rest is mere veneer laid on the surface of a child's nature."
If you wanted, could you breakdown what you wanted to do into a few topics and then schedule components of those in short lessons thus leaving your afternoons free for self-directed learning? Would that be in keeping with both based on your understanding?
As we have talked, just a thought-
Mandy
I've contemplated that.
I'm not sure if you are directing this comment towards CM methods in particular or if you just mean this a general way.
And like Mandy, I really get frustrated with the throwing around of phrases like "spreading a feast" to represent a method which is far more complex than these three words. Whenever we try to simply these methods, we tend to make a mess of them. Obviously we all know, since we are heavily invested in this as homeschoolers, that teaching children is a far more complex task then is given credit. We know this, but I think in the haste of busy life, the stress of being stretched too thin and the need to make life as simple as possible, we forget how much more there is to something like a teaching method than first appears. The methods of CM, just as the methods of classical, are not as simple as read a lot of old books, short lessons, narrations, picture study, nature study and some copywork. You can take any one of these words or phrases and know that there is more to this than just that word. And just so that these words are not taken out of context, I'm saying all of this in a very relaxed and gentle manner. :) Really, I don't intend for this to offend anyone.
To be fair, in some aspects I would agree that the ability to be multum non multa using CM methods in its most conventional approach may not be possible. But, I do think that you can apply the methods and still maintain a sense of less is more. We strive for a mixture of methods. I try to incorporate any idea or method that resonates with me and my family. Our ultimate goal as a family is to immerse ourselves in any form of learning that stretches us, soothes us and inspires us.
I have no intention of using "spread a feast" to represent the whole of CM. I'm just working through different readings and trains of thought and trying to reconcile some differences. Ideally, for us, we would find a way to blend the two, and I'm struggling with that. I believe in some things there needs to be depth, I also feel I would like exposure to a broad knowledge base so that the choices for self-education and future studies are there. I'm struggling to figure out how to do this in a way that does not mean we are schooling for way too long, as I believe free play is important as well.
CM is a HUGE influence on our homeschool. In fact, I would call myself a CM homeschooler.
I "spread the feast" during our Morning Meeting time where we cover quite a few subjects without the depth that multum non multa would require, but we discuss them quite a bit.
We go deep in the afternoons when we study content subjects. Unlike CM, who had her students covering science, world history, national history, geography, etc. every week, I choose to focus on one of these topics for a week in the afternoon so we can really dig into the topic, make connections, etc. This is the multum non multa part of our day. We won't cover as much history, science, etc. in a year as other homeschoolers, but what we do cover will be thorough. At least I hope it plays out this way!
What I've tried to do for the past three months in our homeschool is combine CM, CiRCE (classical, multum non multa), and interest led learning into one big soup. So far it's worked great, but we've not been at it very long since we had to stop homeschooling for a bit to move. We should pick up next month.
Thank you for a glimpse into your day. That is helpful.
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CM sample schedules tend to include many subjects to be studied in short lessons, so not really multum non multa. I do think it is possible to have both simple and deep and a feast, by differentiating between subjects studied formally and subjects explored for pleasure. In other words, multum non multa is for formal studies, but when those are done for the day there is still a feast to be enjoyed at will.
Perhaps I should have clarified. I referring to CM as a methodology. Many people spend a lot of time looking at PNEU schedules, and booklists and such, but for this discussion I think it would be good to set that aside and look at methods.
I can create a multum non multa curriculum using some of the CM methods and booklists, especially the methods that were focused on before AO declared CM as a subset of classical and The Living Page was written. But, if I just follow the currently evolving practices of the crowd–no way, no how!
CM was not that revolutionary in her time! Much of what she wrote and did was being done by others, sometimes even the majority, and not just a tiny minority. Her audience was of a higher income bracket than the audience of some of the other teacher training manuals, and really that is the thing that most stands out to ME.
The above quote struck me, as I did not realize AO had declared CM a subset of classical. I came about it a different way. I think we can encounter the same danger with CM as we can with many other methods. Some of what she did is so well documented, including schedules, that we can end up doing school at home if we follow them, just a different kind of school. I don't think that would be the schole I am looking for, at all. But I do feel that there are some components that may help lead me towards what I am looking for.
Ok, I'll play. I don't understand why anyone would want to limit a child's exposure, and, frankly, unless you rope off sections of the library, refuse to allow Internet access, and don't take them anywhere, I don't know how you would do it. Conversely, I don't know how, after a child is exposed to things, you keep from delving deeply into them.
As far as CM specifically, my entire homeschool philosophy is derived directly from CM. The thing is that, for me, CM, isn't just a way to educate a child, it is about the whole child. To reduce CM to an educational feast and compare it to a simplified Classical education schedule doesn't work for me, because CM is about so much more than that.
Thank you for your input. I also do not believe in limiting a child's exposure. I feel that in a classical education, the grammar stage is about gaining knowledge, and is not related to a specific developmental period. I find myself struggling to reconcile specific ideas, the above is a prime example. I believe that it is possible to spend so much time doing so many things that you teach a child to do many things with mediocrity, and that is not what I want in our home, thus the need for depth. On the other hand, there is SO MUCH to learn about. So it's the balance that I'm trying to figure out. This may not even make sense to anyone else, I'm having a hard time putting this into writing, and of course there is no one in real life to talk this out with. Sigh.
I think within another year or so, we are going to have such diverse definitions of what a CM education is, that it'll be crazier than the definition of "classical". And I think some of the key players in the CM community are going to be…well, :lol: not handle it the same way as some of the key players in the classical community. Let the fun begin!
I think it's going to be like the reformation. Let's just hope no one gets burned at the stake.
Laughing here. I'm not sure how diverse the definition can be, as we have a wealth of resources on her methods to pull from. I do think that anyone who feels that CM is one specific booklist will struggle with the blurring of the lines.
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How are those two ideas reconciled? Much, not many (deep, not wide) vs. spreading a feast of information. Is it possible?
I believe, based on much reading and discussion with others, that many of Charlotte Mason's ideas are part of a Classical Education, but the two ideas above seem to contradict each other.
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Any more ideas?
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along with deep diving into a few topics, what do you use? For what grade?
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I am pulling together my own resources to use with Charlotte Mason methods. I have a spreadsheet where I list ideas for each subject; if there is a book that I feel is a must read for a certain age I have it on the list. It also lists topics for each grade. I adjust it as necessary, but it helps me not worry about leaving big gaps in her education. For history I have a spine, and then we read more based on interests. Science is interest led by topic - for example, she is very interested in learning more about weather and rocks, so that is what our next two studies will be on. I have a cycle for fine arts and then chose who we want to study in that cycle (ie. each year in music we study two operas, two ballets, two classical composers).
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We loved RS A and B!! but C almost killed the joy. We stopped 2/3 through and switched.
May I ask how / why C almost killed the joy?
Thanks!
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Just as important is lots of independent (i.e. not directed or organized by adult) play time, lots of time outdoors, and lots of read alouds and good music. But that is scholé – just a part of The Good Life – not "school." :) So although I plan our week to make sure there is lots of time for the scholé activities, the scheduled "school" time is less than an hour.
Part of the reason I'm coming out to four hours each day for school time is the inclusion of art, music, nature study, quiet reading time, literature, etc as our school time. If I eliminate those, our day looks a lot shorter.
Thank you all for the feedback. I just don't want to overdo and kill her love for learning.
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I am planning out first grade, and I am wondering about scheduling. I know some resources say one hour per school year, but that means only one hour of school for first grade. That only gives us time for math and reading, which leaves out A LOT. So I am wondering if any of you would be willing to share your first grade schedule, or at least approx how much time you spend per day for first grade.
Thank you!
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I must say that I am a bit perplexed by the disdain and low opinion for "IRL homeschoolers" in this thread. My dad taught at a university for a time and he and other professors I have spoken with have felt that former homeschoolers were the best students. It seems that most of you believe that most of the homeschoolers you have met are not very academically oriented. How do you know what goes on in their homes? Why do national statistics not bear this non-academic homeschooler trend out?
I don't know that I'd call it disdain or low opinion. More a weariness of being the one that is the odd man out or is looked at oddly because I don't just use what they use. I, too, am a lover of educational philosophy. As such, we are clearly not following anything resembling a regular schooling path. Doing so does not make my opinion invalid, nor does it mean I need to be told to stop purchasing books.
As for what your father saw at university - I would say that is a specific example, just like many of the people posting here.
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This post is very timely. I was just lamenting how weary I am of being the odd man out. It has become clear to me over the last six months that I am truly walking a different path than almost everyone I know in real life (save one, and we're trying to figure this out together). It gets difficult at time to be the odd man out, especially when others make it clear the value they have placed on you.
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I have not used their curriculum for first before. We're taking a break from it for now, but plan on returning to MP.
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I don't think there is a correlation between liking OPGTR and liking FLL.
Also, just FYI, MP is coming out with first grade lesson plans that start more gently, with some more review instead of just jumping right into reading books.
My youngest has finished First Start Reading, and we are currently using OPGTR to reinforce what she learned and build on it. It seemed to me that book D rushed through some concepts, and that it did not complete teaching phonics - for example, vowel combinations. That is part of the reason there seems to be such a jump between MP K and MP 1.
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I used A Reason for Spelling when my oldest was in first grade. I loved the layout and all the fun activities. We didn't continue with it because the words were too easy for her. She excels at spelling and needed something more challenging. I think it would be a great program for an average or below average spelling student.
Suzanne
Would you mind sharing what you chose as more challenging? I'm trying to figure out spelling, and my dd seems to be a natural speller, at least to a point.
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The Road Not Taken
Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood
And looked down one as far as I could
To where it bent in the undergrowth;
Then took the other, as just as fair,
And having perhaps the better claim
Because it was grassy and wanted wear,
Though as for that the passing there
Had worn them really about the same,
And both that morning equally lay
In leaves no step had trodden black.
Oh, I kept the first for another day!
Yet knowing how way leads on to way
I doubted if I should ever come back.
I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I,
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.-Robert Frost-A little analysis- as shown by the bolded lines, the two paths were worn - or used - the same; and no one had taken either path yet that morning. Frost then says that in the future when he is telling this he will say he took the one less traveled, despite both paths having been equally traveled.
Each path is really what you make of it.
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Do you mind a little literary analysis?
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Math Mammoth sells books by topic - including a few geography books. You can get them as an ebook and print what you want.
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If you live in the US and use Galore Park, where do you purchase it from?
Thanks!
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Adult child should pay for phone, car insurance, clothes and toiletries, minimum.
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hair spray, extension cord, power strip
a basket of snack items
mini water bottles
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Animals, Animals by Eric Carle
Dragons, Dragons by Eric Carle
The Barefoot Book of Poetry is gorgeous
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Has anyone used either of these? Pros / Cons? Anything that might help me make a decision?
Thank you!!!
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Thank you!!
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I am researching different curricula and am currently looking at these two. I have been able to see an example of Learning Language Arts through Literature - and it seems to me to have some reading instruction, handwriting and comprehension questions in it. Does that seem like a fair assessment?
For Language Lessons through Literature - does it have comprehension questions, or is it more of a copywork, narration, grammar type curriculum? I have not been able to find a sample online that has more than just the table of contents.
Are there major differences that I'm missing? Or major similarities that I'm missing?
Thank you!
CM Spread a Feast & Multum non Multa
in K-8 Curriculum Board
Posted
Some of the above is why I think that some of CM methods are part of Classical Education. I consider WTM neo-classical - having many components of classical education. Which is why I believe I can pull what speaks to me from both, combine them, and still have a form of classical education.
Interesting!