MinivanMom
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Posts posted by MinivanMom
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When my oldest was a tiny thing and I was reading everything I could find about homeschooling, I came across "For the Children's Sake". I am not an evangelical or a protestant, but it resonated deeply with me. I consider my underlying philosophy to be Charlotte Mason - the idea of education being an atmosphere, the development of good habits, and exposure to living books & ideas. That was my philosophy when I was starting out, and that's my philosophy today. I still read "For the Children's Sake" every year to keep myself grounded.
I was also motivated to start homeschooling by my desire to give my kids something gentler and more developmentally appropriate when they were small than what I saw in my local public schools. And I had a desire to lay a solid academic foundation and have more time together as a family. Those goals still guide the educational choices we make as a family.
In practice, though, I have never felt obligated to do everything the CM way or to use old books. I have always read current education research, and I try to follow current research and the needs of my children over any specifically CM method. As my kids have gotten older, we have gradually gravitated more and more toward many classical practices and approaches, because those have been a good match for my children. We even study Latin and logic. But I don't consider myself a classical homeschooler, because I don't really buy into the philosophy of the trivium. So I guess we are CM homeschoolers who lean classical in methodology.
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I had a friend in college whose aunt was married to a professional athlete (I won't name names ;) ). Her aunt was probably the most gorgeous woman I've ever seen in real life. When aunt got married to the professional athlete, he told her that she must maintain her weight or he would leave her. Apparently, she thought that was fine and reasonable, because she married him.
Then life (and several pregnancies) happened. There were several times that her weight got 10-20 lbs above her wedding day weight. He left her. Seriously, he packed his bags and left both her and the children until she got the weight back down. And to be clear, she was never anywhere near overweight. Never. My friend would cry when she would talk about what her aunt had been through over the years. It was so hard for the extended family to watch the situation and feel like they could do nothing. And my friend really felt like her beautiful aunt's whole sense of self-worth and confidence had been shattered by her husband.
I don't have much tolerance for shallow like that. And I don't think the fact that she "agreed" to stay thin before marriage matters much. Only a very young person would be foolish enough to think you could possibly guarantee such a thing. We all grow old, wrinkled, and gray. Depending on our genes, many of us will also put on some weight around the middle (despite good diet & exercise!) and many of us will have our mental faculties decline. And that is before the curve-balls of cancer, disease, accidents, etc. Either you love this person and are committed to them or you aren't.
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How could anyone possibly answer this question without making a wild guess? You don't know what people are doing in their homes on a daily basis.
I must have one of those faces, because people tell me everything. Seriously, people tell me about childhood abuse, mental health struggles, marriage conflicts, parenting problems, etc. Sometimes I'm surprised by what people tell me, but I'm quiet, and I know how to listen and ask questions to draw people out. And I spent many, many years as the "welcome lady" at park day for the big inclusive support group. You learn an awfully lot about everybody when you take on that role.
So, yes, I know a lot about what goes on in people's homes, because they tell me. I've had unschoolers confide in me about cheating on standardized tests. I've had religious homeschoolers tell me all about their efforts to make sure their teen daughters never develop any friendships outside their families. I feel like I know a lot of crazy details about a lot of families. So I don't think it's strange when they mention something mundane like, "Well, the only educational thing we've done this year is fishing, but I think my teen son is learning a lot from fishing so it doesn't matter that he can't read," or "I've just been so overwhelmed the past few years that I'm only teaching math to my son now; the girls have learned enough since they made it through Saxon 5/4." I don't think it's a wild guess to say that homeschooler A has a son who is probably functionally illiterate and that homeschooler B is not teaching her daughters math beyond pre-algebra.
I've stepped back from the "welcome lady" role, though, because I burned out pretty bad.
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That's interesting because I've gone to three different community colleges in totally different areas of the country, all of which offered non-credit remedial courses in math and composition. The classes are full. And they are not full of just homeschooled kids or just non-traditional students. They have a lot of public school kids who can't pass the math entry exam into a college level math or writing class.
These are community colleges that have whole classrooms of kids coming out of public schools that have to remediate to be able to even take college math. Maybe in Palo Alto or somewhere similar this doesn't occur, but it's pretty common to find 000 level courses in most CCs these days.
I don't live in Palo Alto, but I'm in a high-tech area with very similar demographics.
I've been googling and digging around on the cc website and can't find official stats on this. So frustrating. I did find an article in our local paper from 2011 that says 40% of incoming students at the cc take at least 1 remedial class. Apparently they offer 3 levels of "developmental" English and 4 levels of "developmental" math. They quote the cc president as saying that the majority of those taking the "developmental" courses are older adults who have been out of school for several years, and then give a story about a guy starting cc in his 30's who had to take a single remedial math course. I would love to know the exact percentage of non-traditional students versus kids straight out of high school that place into remedial courses.
As far as people I know in real life, about half the homeschool parents with kids at the cc will openly say that their kid had to start in remedial classes. Sometimes I've had the kids themselves tell me. Public school graduates and parents always talk about the specific classes they are taking at the cc, where they are planning to transfer to, what they are planning to major in, etc. If they had to start in remedial classes, they aren't talking about it.
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It depends on what you define as a minimum standard. If the definition is a child being literate and having exposure to math, then I would guess that about 10-15% of those I know are not meeting that standard - primarily unschoolers who are pretty vocal about not teaching their kids to read and not wanting them to go to college. All of the academic homeschoolers and religious homeschoolers seem to take literacy and basic math (through pre-algebra) pretty seriously.
If your definition of a minimum standard is a high school education that has prepared you to enter community college, then I would guess that 30% or more of those I know are not meeting that standard. It seems to be pretty common in our area for families to finish pre-algebra by 8th or 9th grade and then just let their kids attempt to unsuccessfully self-study algebra. I have had a lot of moms tell me about the difficulties their kids have encountered trying to transition to the community college - lots of struggles in math and science.
I have never met a neurotypical public school student who was not meeting this basic standard (literate & graduating high school ready for community college). Never. Elementary kids here go to public school everyday where they get daily literacy and math instruction. Kids who are not reading on grade level get referred immediately for reading intervention with intensive phonics. High school kids must complete algebra, geometry, algebra 2, biology, and physical science in order to graduate. They also have to pass end-of-course exams in English, Algebra, and Biology to prove they've mastered the material in order to graduate. The only high schoolers I have ever known who did not meet those standards were severely autistic (nonverbal) or had other cognitive delays that resulting in an IEP setting different (achievable) goals for them. But I believe they also get an alternative diploma showing that they did not meet the state standard.
In our area, the schools are doing a good job. Not as good as some homeschoolers on this board, but very far above average.
I answer this based on my experiences homeschooling for more than a decade in an educated, urban east coast area. We have always belonged to the big secular support group as well as knowing a fair amount of religious homeschoolers through our own (non-evangelical) church. I don't know a lot of radical unschoolers (they have their own exclusive support group), and I don't know a lot of evangelicals (they have their own co-ops with statements of faith).
ETA: A lot of the homeschoolers in our area choose to homeschool as a reaction to our public schools which they see as being too rigorous and developmentally inappropriate. Some of the suburban high schools have gone beyond rigorous to an unhealthy level of academic competition. So I think we may have a different type of homeschooler in general.
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I had never heard of these before. I was reading up last night after clicking on some of those links, and I think my head is going to explode. I can't even wrap my mind around the idea of a child being legally forced to care for a parent who abused or abandoned them. What do you all think about this?
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I'm betting the illegal activity has already occurred and/or the car has already been destroyed or impounded. That's the only reason I can think of for why the bil can't produce either the car or the plates. I would report the car stolen immediately if only to try to protect myself legally.
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If I told someone they could take the car for an estimate, and then they failed to return the car that very day, I would be on the phone that very day threatening to report it stolen if not returned immediately. I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around a family dynamic where he would just not return the car for weeks, and you would helplessly do nothing. Because you don't want shady bil to lose his job working with little children! What?!
There are some huge red flags on this situation. How did you not call the police weeks ago?
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I probably wouldn't think anything of it at all. If I did notice, I would just assume that there was a family culture of teasing and rough-housing in the pool.
But at our pool, the parent might get scolded by the life guard or swim instructor, because rough-housing isn't permitted around the swim lanes where lessons take place.
I don't joke like that with my kids so I have a hard time imagining that scenario occurring with one of my kids. If it did, I would probably pull my kid aside to remind him that swim lessons are expensive so he shouldn't waste time joking around.
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I feel very uncomfortable with making whether we have "taken the grandparents in" the litmus test for whether we value our parents/family enough. Choosing to live in a multi-generational household for the foreseeable future (which could potentially be decades) is not something anyone is required to do in order to prove they love their parents or value connection between the generations. You are talking about potentially giving up the rest of your life to elder care tasks.
I'm genuinely surprised at the amount of judgment in this thread. There is a lot of room between "my wonderful parents cared for me and now, by taking them into my home for a few months prior to death, everything has come full circle" and the token caveat "well, unless they were abusive". A lot of room. There are so many situations, many of which have already been mentioned on this thread, that fall in that murky grey area in the middle. And there are so many situations where taking the grandparents into your own home is simply not possible or reasonable from a medical or safety standpoint.
My grandmother used to say, "I don't want to be a burden," and I always said, "Why would you ever think you could be a burden?" But my grandmother had far more wisdom and life experience than I did. She had seen people worn down by decades of caregiving. She had seen friends selfishly expect their children to give up their whole lives, their own families, and their own retirement savings to support them. She loved her own family too much to deliberately do that to them. My grandmother had only a 3rd grade education and carefully lived off a very small pension & social security, but she took care of her health, she prepaid her funeral & burial expenses, and she spread her (reasonable) needs and requests among her children and grandchildren. She was fortunate enough to have the good health to live independently until 6 months before her death, and those last 6 months of caregiving were a blessing to those involved.
But I have seen too many situations where someone gave up their whole life . . . literally, their whole life and their own health . . . for years & decades as a caregiver to pass judgment on anyone facing these hard choices.
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My daughter is also learning Spanish (taught by me) with another student. They are both bright kids and are learning more than my students learned when I taught high school Spanish. By quite a lot. And yet, it is far, far easier than the Lukeion class. So much easier that it seems ludicrous to compare them. I think many schools would consider a class of that caliber an honors class and make it worth 5 points, but that doesn't help me.
Our local public high school labels second-year Latin and up as "Honors". I was surprised by that since I've never seen foreign language classes labeled as honors before, but it makes sense from a difficulty standpoint.
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To this old schooler, I have a hard time labeling it as homeschooling. To me, the label is cottage school or university model school. Again- not labeling it lazy or wrong but it wasn't considered homeschooling back when I started and now it is.
I agree, but in our state they are legally considered homeschoolers. I would call it more of a cottage school.
The weird side-effect I'm seeing is that non-homeschoolers have begun to see this as the norm. People with kids in public school will ask me what co-op my kids go to. Nope. I'm too busy teaching Latin and geometry to join (much less run) a bunch of co-ops.
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I was just talking to a young homeschool mom this week (oldest child is 2nd grade), and she was telling me all about her co-ops (plural) that she runs. So I'm not seeing young moms who are lazy or want it handed to them. I'm not seeing moms who want somebody else to educate their kids. They do want classes and co-ops, but they are absolutely willing to do the hard work of creating and maintaining those classes and co-ops.
The vibe with these young moms is just different. They don't homeschool their own kids at home around the kitchen table. They seem to want their homeschooling to be more like a cottage school where they have the community of a tiny, private school, but maintain all the control. It's not wrong, just different.
We homeschool the old school way, but we started in 2008.
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Even with 6 kids, I try really hard to keep things from becoming too chaotic, because I can't deal with tons of noise and chaos. So I sympathize with your son. If it's reached the point where he's sleeping in the laundry room and going to work with dad, then he needs some changes.
I would start with the room and general day-to-day functioning, because I think it's a huge deal for a tween if they don't feel like they have a quiet place they can retreat to. Is there any way to rearrange the rooms so that he has his own space? I understand if they need to share a room, but sometimes there are ways to reorganize the room so that the mess doesn't spill over onto his side. It helped my current 7th grader a lot when we just physically rearranged the room so that he had a corner that was clearly his own space (that his little brother is not allowed to touch). We also bought a new nightstand for his bed so that he had a space where he could put his things that is not shared with his brother. But I have to be on top of the little guy to be sure he isn't touching big brother's things and to be sure that he cleans up his stuff each day. It isn't fair to 7th grade son if I'm not monitoring and teaching the little guy. I know that's hard with a baby, but it helps to build it into the daily routine.
Do you have a good daily routine going? I don't know how old your baby is, but I would work at building a solid routine around the baby's naps. If it's chaotic when you work with the younger kids, I would plan for oldest ds to work independently in another room during that time. When our curriculum hasn't been conducive to working independently, I have had older kids practice instruments or do assigned reading in a different room while I work with littler kids. But I think it helps a lot for middle schoolers to have a few subjects they can do independently and a daily checklist to work from. It's a lot of work for me to make a checklist, but it really helps the day go smoothly (though I would try to keep the number of items short at first so it's not overwhelming). We've done daily checklists in 5th & 6th and then transitioned to keeping a planner in 7th & 8th.
I also don't think there's anything wrong with moving to Calvert or something else more structured & independent if you think it would help. Some kids thrive with structure, and it's okay to get that structure from an outside provider if that's not your natural style.
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Dd won't ever be going to their home. Tricky discussion, but we will have to tell her that she can't ever go to their home and why.
Dd will still see Jane each week at their activity. I tend to be very hands-off with my dd's social life in general, but going forward, I will need to be more involved in supervising anything involving Jane since her mom is her shadow. I'm not sure that I need to say anything to Jane's mom at this point, but I will if it becomes necessary.
Thank you all so much for your thoughts. I'm surprised by how much overwhelming compassion I feel for Jane. It's a really easy situation to think about in the abstract, but it feels so different when I'm dealing with a real life teen daughter of the sex offender.
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I chose the second meaning, because I disagree with the phrase and the sentiment behind it. I've always understood "tall poppy syndrome" to mean, "Don't stand out. Just be average and blend in."
The closest I've heard to "tall poppy syndrome" here in the states is when the phrase "special snowflake" is used in academic settings. I'm thinking of snarky remarks I've heard about gifted kids who are young-for-grade due to early kindergarten entry or grade skipping. I think the phrase is more often used to attack parents who are perceived as wanting special treatment for their child in general, but I've also heard it used to attack parents whose child is continuing to rack up academic awards & achievements even after skipping ahead. Maybe because other parents perceive it as special treatment when the child is allowed to skip a grade or compete (& win) in the same competitions year after year?
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There is so much disturbing stuff in that article that I don't even know what to say. What happened to due process and next-of-kin?! Think of the amount of collusion that had to go on between the court, the guardians, medical personnel, and nursing homes. Holy cow!
And I can't believe the judge has been transferred to work dependency court with abused & neglected children. He shouldn't be allowed near anything involving families. How did none of these judges get removed from the bench?
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We use MCT for grades 4-6, so in 6th grade my kids have been working through MCT Voyage.
Then in 7th and 8th grades we transition to just writing. I had them write 2 literary essays and 2 research papers each year. My biggest goal in approaching 9th grade was just to make sure they could write a decent, coherent essay. Everything else was gravy.
Of course, that wasn't the only writing they did. My middle schoolers have also outlined their history chapters each week, and they have written a "short" science report each month. They have also done some creative writing on the side, but we haven't used a formal program for that. Dd spent a lot of time writing poetry for fun, and ds likes to write long, rambling stories with lots of silly humor.
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Most nights my teen sleeps from 9 pm - 7 am, so she gets about 10 hrs of sleep. If she gets any less than that, she really struggles the next day.
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6th: Life Science using How Life Works along with DK Human Body Coloring Bk, TOPS units, dissection kits, & some other books
7th: Physical Science using Focus on Middle School Chemistry & Focus on Middle School Physics along with TOPS units & some other books
8th: Oceanography using Great Courses: Oceanography lectures along with Marine Life Coloring Bk, documentaries, & some other books
It looks very eclectic when I type it out, but I was working with a dd who hated science and would have hated it even more if I had moved her on to traditional texts. My goal was to cover both life science and physical science without killing the tiny amount of interest she had. She chose oceanography for 8th grade, and giving her an elective year was hugely positive.
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I deal with some of this with DD. She has a tendency to focus on the negative. Visible positive reinforcements have helped some.
I have a big family, and I hate chore charts or rewards systems or any of that garbage. I just can't do it; that's not how our family works.
But for my kid like this - visible positive reinforcements have helped (along with lots of focused exercise). I do charts just for him. Not chore charts that would allow him to say, "That's not my job," but various charts that visibly reward him for whatever positive behavior we are currently working on.
Then I also work on lots and lots of positive, verbal reinforcement for desired behaviors. Correcting wrong behaviors has little effect (though I still do it). Yelling or punishment would just make him feel like more of a victim. Consistent positive reinforcement is what has helped here. But it means I have to be on top of him 100% of the time. I swear I put more effort into this one kid than the others combined, but that effort has made a difference.
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Physical attraction in marriage
in The Chat Board
Posted
No kidding!
But she wouldn't be the first young woman (or young man) to miss glaring red flags, because she felt flattered by the attention of someone who appeared to be a huge catch. I suspect he saw her as a trophy wife more than as a loving partner, and he wanted his trophy to stay nice and skinny.