Mandy in TN
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Posts posted by Mandy in TN
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http://guesthollow.com/blog/2013/01/printable-timeline/
Free printable timeline from Guest Hollow may work.
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http://tanglewoodeducation.com/orderT.htm
Tanglewood BoC
Corebook
Nature Notebook
ETA- Here is information about Tanglwood's BoC
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I'm new to Charlotte Mason and am very interested in learning about it further. I've seen the book lists/suggestions on AO and Simply CM but I'm wondering how to make the transition from "boxed curriculum and workbooks" to books? Do you form comprehension questions/worksheets to check for understanding or just discuss? What about hands on projects or a history time line? .....?
I'm a little overwhelmed with all the new information. Truthfully, the method is a little out of my comfort zone but am willing to try because I believe my kiddo would love it. Especially the nature study.
I am planning for "grade 3" (age 9) and would like to know what a typical schedule looks like? Also, I'm not sure how to go about planning lessons because I LOVE teachers guides, scripted ones.....I don't have to worry so much about misinformation or doing something wrong. What would a quarterly or yearly plan look like? Is it just a book list or do you organize by topic or subject?
I'm excited by everything I've read so far about CM and really want to dive in but I can't seem to find examples of application other than copywork and nature journals. Any help or suggestions are greatly appreciated.
TIA, you are all so helpful!
Let's see. I am going to try to give you an example of planning, but remember you need to make home education work for you in your home with your child.
Type into a spreadsheet the subjects you want to teach. Type those in column A. Then, break down the subjects into topics/ lessons in column B, and fill those cells with a color. In column C type what you are going to use. Here is an example of how I divided one year:
Color/ Column A/ Column B/ Column C
Yellow/ Religious Studies & Mythology/ Religious Studies & Mythology/ various
Blue/ Math/ Exploration/ Introduction to Counting
Blue/ Math/ Review/ Daily Math
Blue/ Math/ Drill/ Kumon
Blue/ Math/ Lesson/ Teaching Textbooks
Pink/ Language Arts/ Spelling/ from Don Potter
Pink/ Language Arts/ Grammar/ Harvey's
Pink/ Language Arts/ Composition/ Spectrum Writing
Pink/ Language Arts/ Reading/ Figuratively Language
Pink/ Language Arts/ Poetry/ Various
Purple/ Geography/ Physical Geography/ Various
Purple/ Geography/ Political Geography, Mapping/ WP Children around the World
Purple/ Geography/ Cultural Geography/ WP Children around the World
Green/ Science/ Entomology/ MP Insects Set (to help guide nature study)
Green/ Science/ General Science/ Science Daybook
Green/ Science/ General Science/ Steck Vaughn Science
Orange/ Memory Work, Recitation/ Memory Work/ As assigned
Hot Pink/ Arts/ Composer/ Various
Hot Pink/ Arts/ Artist/ Various
Hot Pink/ Arts/ Violin/ lessons
Hot Pink/ Arts/ Fine Arts/ Art and drama class
As you can see, there is a lot on that list that is just standard curriculum. I tried to see products through CM philosophy rather than trying to pursue products that might naturally look CM. My oldest was a living-a-learning-lifestyle, literature-loving kid and products that looked CM worked for him, but my youngest isn't that child. However, keep in mind that you can use the book list right off the AO site in a way that absolutely does not line up with CM philosophy.
With the list from that year, I can explain that, when putting our day into practice, I tried to see each topic/ lesson as an individual time slot/ actual lesson. I lumped ds's sit down/ formal lessons together and tried not to do blocks of the same color in a row. I tried to think of STEM subjects as blue/ green subjects and humanities as red/ pink/ purple subjects. Also, I tried to keep in mind that we didn't need to do everything every single day. I tried to do memory work/ recitation 4 days each week first thing as he needed me for that. Then, I would try to have him do sit down for short lessons, but alternate between cool and warm. This kept him from looking at a math for over an hour or sitting there feeling like he was endlessly doing language arts. For example, for four days each week, he could do 1) religious studies, 10 min; 2) daily math, 5 min; 3) spelling or poetry, 10 min; 4) teaching textbooks 20 min; 5) grammar or figurative language, 15 min; 7) Introduction to Counting, 20 min; 8) composition 20 min 9) 2 days entomology (written work)/ 1 day Steck Vaughn/ 1 day Science Daybook, 20 min. This is just about 2 hours of seat work.
In reality, I would put everything in a stack in a somewhat alternating order. However, I didn't force ds to do it in this order. If he wanted to do spelling next, we did spelling. This isn't a classroom full of kids, and I didn't run a schedule that dictated he do spelling from 10:50 to 11:00.
Then, change area, eat, hop up and down, or whatever. Then, do 1) instrument practice, 2) kumon math, 3) physical geography, political geography, mapping, cultural geography WP CATW (this was a heavy geography focused year for us, but this would be where you could do less geography reading and history reading instead), 4) Nature Studies. The time on these varied wildly.
This particular year we reserved one day each week when ds did art and drama lessons. He did artists and composers this day. The two things that rolled over from the other 4 days were kumon math and instrument practice. Then, we spent the afternoon at the park.
The hard thing for me is to not add more and more. <squirrel> this product is so cool and don't we have time for this one extra thing?!?! At some point, I just have to put on blinders. As a parent and a teacher, I will open doors, but these doors include having time to live life, to develop good habits, and for Doodle to be let alone to pursue those things that interest him.
I picked this particular year to discuss, because I spent time thinking about not particularly CM materials, but applying CM philosophy to things that would fit what and the way Doodle wanted to learn. I view Doodle as a whole person, look at the whole of our day as an atmosphere, a discipline, and a life and apply that to the subjects we cover. This was more about how I viewed my child and how I chose to raise my child than about a product list that has CM stamped at the top. (and it was easy to share, because I was so deliberate in my thoughts and spreadsheets. ;-) )
If some of CM interests you and the rest just doesn't fit your home, then take what works and use it. There will be no CM police who show up to see if you are doing it "right." ;-)
HTH-
Mandy
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The Tanglewood Education site is no longer being maintained, but it contains a lot of good stuff. WinterPromise is also CM inspired.
Mandy
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http://firstheralds....ason-education/
I like this for a concise explanation of CM. It has three short sections: I. Mason's Starting Point: Children Are Born Persons, II. Foundational Principles: Education is an Atmosphere, a Discipline, and a Life, III. Practical Applications of Mason's Philosophy. CM's starting point and foundational principles. CM is where I have derived my homeschool philosophy, but philosophy and application are two very different creatures. While I have never wavered in my CM philosophy, I have never had any problem using that philosophy as a lens for whatever subjects we choose or materials we use.Read CM's writings and take whatever appeals to you and use it in your homeschool. Ditch the rest.
If you just like the idea of a literature-rich education and nature study, there are plenty of literature-rich products that are scripted, and you don't need to provide a CM education to enjoy nature. ;-)
HTH-
Mandy -
I am so glad to see the positive responses. Composition is the only thing for ds's folders for next year that I haven't ordered. I keep saying we are going to use EIW but haven't quite made it to the purchase button. Y'all are certainly boosting my confidence in this decision. :)
Thx-
Mandy
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I am sure you have heard this, but it bears repeating. Do not make a call based on a single test score especially if you don't feel like the score reflects his ability. The wording could have thrown him off or he could have been having an off moment. Based on his placement test results, it sounds like he is able to apply the skills he is learning with TT7. OTOH, if you feel the the score is representative of his current ability, you could add in one of the suggestions you have received.
HTH-
Mandy
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CM's starting point and foundational principles. It is where I have derived my homeschool philosophy, but philosophy and application are two very different creatures. While I have never wavered in my CM philosophy, I have never had any problem using that philosophy as a lens for whatever subjects we choose or materials we use.http://firstheralds.com/charlotte-mason/charlotte-mason-education/
I like this for a concise explanation of CM. It has three short sections: I. Mason's Starting Point: Children Are Born Persons, II. Foundational Principles: Education is an Atmosphere, a Discipline, and a Life, III. Practical Applications of Mason's Philosophy. From this concise description, maybe it will be easier to see where you can overlay or blend multum non multa with CM.
HTH-
Mandy
I so agree!!!Yes, it's possible.
When CM talks of spreading a feast, she means this as opposed to force-feeding a curriculum. Give a variety of the highest quality, in small portions, and allow the child to digest what they will. This is the opposite of "Memorize these dates and regurgitate for the test." This is why her focus is on narration, on telling back what the student gained from the lesson.
You don't need a whole shelf full of fairy tales. Whittle down to the highest quality. Same for myths and biographies and poetry, etc....
In practical application, I've found it overwhelming to *schedule* things like art and music. I've come to the conclusion that in a modern homeschool family (with no nanny or housekeeper to help mom), those fine arts are best done as a part of the family culture. IOW - if you want to introduce your children to the wonder of Beethoven, purchase a recording and listen to Beethoven in your home or car for your own pleasure. It's OK if your art and music selections are not approved by CM. (She died before many wonderful artists lived.) Start this process with music that you loved growing up...those culturally-significant songs first. (What would you listen to if you weren't trying to *teach*...just *share*...???) Purchase some inexpensive prints for hanging on a wall at home rather than *Doing* picture study as a school subject. *DO* the same activities, but as family entertainment. Then allow time for pursuing practice on an instrument or drawing or painting, whatever interests the child.
To understand how CM is Multum non Multa, you first must understand CM's approach to Masterly Inactivity. CM is not LCC, but I do think she does Much not Many.
In addition, because there are short lessons doesn't mean there are many subjects. You can have short lessons on many topics within a single subject that add up to one longer, deeper lesson. (Plz, don't twist that around. Try to see it in the light in which it was intended.) When studying math, you break it down into presentation, practice and exploration. Try to keep each component to an amount of time where when that component is over the child has not lost interest or gone into overload or become frustrated. You don't have to do all the components in a row. Do presentation and work a few problems together in the morning. Later in the day, allow the child time to complete independent work. Have a separate time that you play math games or do things like Penrose the Mathematical Cat. Alternatively, you could have times where you cover computation, another time for problem solving (thinking skills), and another for geometry/ time/ measurement. Think of things that will work for your child. You do not need to cover tons of little snippets of various subjects like sidebars in a book. You are breaking a subjects down into digestible components. In the math example, the total of the components supply a depth that perhaps a child sitting at a single lengthy math lesson wouldn't reach. (I realize some kids do well with intense, longer blocks, but many kids will hit overload or frustration with a block of math over an hour long, but can easily do three 20min lessons throughout the day.)
If you are keeping individual topic lessons short and keeping the formal schooling part of the day short, then it is after this time when you are living life and practicing masterly inactivity that your children who are respected as whole people have time to explore many different things. If you attempt to cover tons of subjects, then it doesn't matter how short the lessons are. Your formal school day will be long, and that certainly isn't CM.
HTH-
Mandy
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Thx- I went ahead and bought it. :)
Mandy
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Since I was standing there with the book in my hand, I went ahead and bought it. Today, I read through about half of chapter one aloud to Doodle. I plan to finish chapter one tonight.
I didn't pre-read. I did skim the author's info at the beginning and skipped reading that part aloud to ds, but basically I just started reading aloud. Which chapters are you skipping and why?
Thx-
Mandy
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After thinking I had it figured out back in winter, our language arts plans changed at the end of March.
Shakespeare: As You Like It; Tempest; Henry IV, Part 1
I switched our Shakespeare plays because I realized As You Like It will be performed at Shakespeare in the Park at the beginning of the school year, and Tempest will be fully dramatized with actors and whoever wants to read at the library later in the fall. I then decided the third play should be a history.
After reading, this thread, I decided that ds would read short stories and discuss literary terms next year. I have a list of short stories that I have researched and have started pulling that together in lesson plans.
I decided to purchase a poetry curriculum instead of using what I had just because I think ds will do well with this organized format. I eliminated Evan-Moor Daily Paragraph Editing because I decided to look for (less to chew) a once a week instead of daily format. I switched composition, because I researched Essentials in Writing for a friend and really liked it. I think it will be the type of guidance ds will appreciate. I am going to back off, trust the product, and try not to give ds more written output. (another willingly chew thing.)
Poetry- The Art of Poetry
G.U.M.- Holt Elements of Language Workbook
G.U.M.- Didax Editing
Reading Comprehension- Reading Comprehension in Varied Subject Matter
Vocabulary- Vocabulary from Classical Roots
Composition- Essentials in Writing
Since he will be reading Shakespeare, analyzing thought-provoking short stories, completing a poetry curriculum, and using a reading comprehension workbook, I decided not to bite of more than he would willing chew and instead have him read some literature from my middle school must read list that he just has never gotten around to reading. After initially not being remotely interested in tying our literature to our history, I decided that there were books from the time period ds is studying that I could use and cover a nice variety. So, now, although I am not trying to weave it into his history study, ds's literature will generally cover the same time period while at the same time not being overly difficult and covering some books that I would like for him to read in middle school.
Beowulf: A New Telling by Robert Nye
A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court by Mark Twain
A Proud Taste for Scarlet and Miniver by E.L. Konigsburg
The Adventures of Robin Hood by Roger Lancelyn Green
Good Masters! Sweet Ladies!: Voices from a Medieval Village by Laura Amy Schlitz
The Canterbury Tales retold by Geraldine McCaughrean
The Midwife's Apprentice by Karen Cushman
Along Came Galileo by Jeanne Bendick
Now, I have everything purchased except Essentials in Writing, so I think I am done. I just need to put on blinders. :)
Mandy
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Oops, here is the link.
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There is a thread about the book. I gave my review there.
There is a thread about the book. I gave my review there.
I skimmed the first page of the other thread. I am currently on a time-out from religion, so I will not be purchasing this book, but I wanted to link Melisa's planning video that Hunter posted in the other thread. This morning during the Mexico/ Netherlands game, I sent this same link to a woman in my local homeschool group. Then, while I was out today, I stopped by JoAnn's and let ds pick out a giant sheet of paper. He picked green. :)
This planning video is definitely worth the 9min video.
Mandy
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x-post
http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1609805224/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1404076711&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40
Has anyone read this or had their child read this? Thoughts?
Thx-
Mandy
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/1609805224/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?qid=1404076711&sr=8-1&pi=SY200_QL40
Has anyone read or had their child read this yet? Thoughts?
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Is anyone familiar with
http://amongstlovelythings.com/
and her book Teaching from Rest?
http://amongstlovelythings.com/shop/
Is this someone that blends like the OP was wanting?
Mandy
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http://firstheralds.com/charlotte-mason/charlotte-mason-education/
I like this for a concise explanation of CM. It has three short sections: I. Mason's Starting Point: Children Are Born Persons, II. Foundational Principles: Education is an Atmosphere, a Discipline, and a Life, III. Practical Applications of Mason's Philosophy. From this concise description, maybe it will be easier to see where you can overlay or blend multum non multa with CM.
HTH-
Mandy
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ALL authors when sharing their method of education share what their education looks like and the exact way they think it should be done. If they didn't believe in their method, they wouldn't be writing a book explaining how to use it. Choose any book you like that was written about an educational method and open it. Inside it will describe how the author believes that method should look in practice. That does not mean that is how it needs to happen in your (the general your and not your specific) home with your children. Take from it what works for you (again the general you) and use it.The post I quoted wasn't about preventing a child from reading suitable books that the family already owns, though. I've never come across that recommendation. Maybe it would help if you shared the author and title of the book that has this "theoretical ideal" that you're referring to?
From everything I've read, both "multum non multa" and Charlotte Mason's advice to "spread a feast" relate to the specific subjects and books that the teacher actively shares with the child. Giving the child access to a wide choice of reading material isn't the same thing. Charlotte Mason says this herself in volume 5 of Home Education, and again in volume 6.
I'm also not seeing how doing research online has anything in particular to do with CM. We have no way of knowing what she would have thought about children's use of electronic media. (I'm starting to think she's the Rorschach test of homeschooling!)
What I was saying was that it would be difficult to take either extreme of taking the two phrases literally all the time with real children. How do you ONLY cover a few chosen topics and refuse to allow children exposure to more? Lock them up? Lock up all other information? Conversely, how do you do a feast all the time (as I pointed out this feast phrase doesn't encompass CM for me but if that is what you wanted to take from her writings) and cover lots of things all day never taking the time to delve into a topic? How would you do that? Would you refuse to allow further research? Would you lock up the children or the information? I have not found that real children in the real world naturally go to either extreme all the time. Children are curious about many things not just a few. Children sometimes become engrossed in a topic and want to know more and more.
CM wrote of masterly inactivity and students taking personal initiative in work in vol. 3. Certainly, the PNEU students were expected to be productive in the time after their formal morning lessons. The older children definitely read, wrote, and presented to each other. This is not something done outside of CM, but is a part of CM. It is something that someone could take from CM.
I don't know how this sort of thing figures into multum non multa. I don't know if it is something discussed or something just done by some parents because so much isn't included. If it is part of multum non multa, then it is something else the two have in common.
Mandy
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Well, I have yet to see CM people begin bashing each other. ;)I don't mind being the only one saying what I think is coming. I'm told I have the most finely tuned threat meter that anyone has seen. It's enough that people that know me start getting nervous if they see me getting nervous.
I'll get up and walk across a room to put some room between me and upcoming action, and not long after people will say, "How did you know? NOTHING was happening, yet!"
I'll watch something very small on the news and say, "uh oh!" and people will laugh and make fun of me. Then days, weeks, even years later, those people will say, "How did you know?"
Time will tell. I start saying my stuff, long BEFORE it gets hot, not AFTER it gets hot. We have more than 5 senses. Just because we only have labels for 5 doesn't mean we don't have more. My unnamed senses are picking up on brewing tensions. Also history repeats itself again and again and again. People don't change, just the particulars.
I hope I'm wrong. I want people to be happy, more than I find this all a bit amusing.
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Y'all are totally missing the point.
Part of what I wrote was bolded with the important part left unbolded. The important part was refusing. When explaining their method, authors write of their theoretical ideal being used with a theoretical child.
And what y'all are talking about doing isn't roping off the library and refusing access because it isn't on the schedule. I do the exact same thing in allowing ds to have and pursue his on interests outside of our school schedule. I do let him check out books at the library, research online, and, as others have said, purchase things related to his interest. And, frankly, I don't know if that is part of classical education, but it is very, very Charlotte Mason.
HTH-
Mandy
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This sounds an awful lot like what people say about the Bible. :lol: Yes, there are a lot of documents people are studying and "discovering" and they talk about them just like they are scripture. We just don't "discover" things about classical, like we do about CM, do we? At least not with the fervency?
I think having more documents actually brings more division, not less. No one has time to read them all, to figure out the big picture.
And CM was not a prophet. I don't really want to devote so much time to figuring out what she thought. Are we going to have degrees in CM now? It surely doesn't seem worth it.
Man, it just seems like this is gearing up for something we have never yet seen in the homeschooling world. There are people who have been lecturing for over 2 decades and supporting their families from those lectures that are now being "proved" "wrong" with documents. Sometimes money is involved here.
And we've got some Christian vs non-Christian stuff thrown in there, too.
And relaxed vs classical.
And I don't even know what else.
:lurk5: Someone pass the popcorn while we all get to watch what could be more interesting than a movie, before it's over. :lol:
If classical involves an education that is humanities heavy, includes Latin and modern languages, and involves memory work and timelines, CM can be used in that way. However, this aspect of CM is only a small part of the big picture and isn't what I have taken away from CM. I am much more drawn to habit training, respecting my child as whole person, and masterly inactivity. The importance of the acceptance and rejection of ideas is something that speaks to me and also falls in the classical category. OTOH- some people come away from CM with nature studies, narration/ dictation, picture and composer studies, short lessons, or century books. I don't care what other families take away from CM. Actually, most of this is not at odds with and could be modified or included as is in a WTM classical education. (The big difference between CM and WTM, where you would have to choose one or the other, seems to be phonics and grammar.)
Every family should evaluate what works best in their home for their children. I don't find myself at odds with someone else who is drawn to CM simply because different aspects of her writings have spoken to them than to me. Even though I personally am not trying to put together a PNEU school in my home or, alternatively, trying to follow every single suggestion CM ever made about children in the home no matter how vague or cursory the comment, I don't care if someone else gives it a go.
As far as I can tell, Hunter, you are the only one preaching a coming apocalypse. I must have missed something. Was there some big thread elsewhere with CM people bashing each other?
Confused-
Mandy
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But- you bought the materials, allowed the time to pursue the interest, and stayed out of the way. ;) That is definitely in keeping with CM.:iagree: It is this way in my house as well...My youngest son loves dinosaurs and wanted to learn more about them...My middle son loves orcas and wanted to learn more about them...I bought them a few books and checked some out of the library, and they read them on their own, looked at the pictures, made drawings of them, etc...They have time to explore these things, but it does not change what I plan to teach them...
I know a lot of people change their educational plans based on their children's interests, but I do not...There is plenty of time for the boys to explore their own interests, and they have taken many "rabbit trails" based on their school work, but I don't change the plans to fit their interests...If you know me, you know that I don't mean that in a stuffy kind of way, I am just more of a parent led educator and not much of a child led one...Nothing wrong with child led if it works for you or you feel inclined to it, I just don't feel inclined to it ;)
Mandy
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If you wanted, could you breakdown what you wanted to do into a few topics and then schedule components of those in short lessons thus leaving your afternoons free for self-directed learning? Would that be in keeping with both based on your understanding?How are those two ideas reconciled? Much, not many (deep, not wide) vs. spreading a feast of information. Is it possible?
I believe, based on much reading and discussion with others, that many of Charlotte Mason's ideas are part of a Classical Education, but the two ideas above seem to contradict each other.
As we have talked, just a thought-
Mandy
Do you discuss your kids' test scores with them?
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
I shared ds's scores with him, but he tested for the first time in spring of third grade and then this spring in fifth. He asked the proctor how long the results would take and was waiting on them. If there were no interest, I don't know if I would share. FWIW- my son's scores are tilted the other way- his math is a little higher than the LA. He knew it would be that way. He didn't need a test to tell him that he likes math and spends more time on math than LA.
If she doesn't realize and hasn't asked, I don't know that I would mention it. However, maybe you could just tell her she scored above average. Would that make your dh happy? Would your dd feel excited? If so, I don't see why not.
HTH-
Mandy