DebbS
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Posts posted by DebbS
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Many scholarships require that you fill out the FAFSA even though they may not be primarily based on need. I think that need is sometimes used as a tie-breaker after merit is considered. Also, if you are considering student loans, you have to fill out the FAFSA.
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We used Rosetta Stone Homeschool with Duo Lingo for additional practice. I have no experience with my kids moving on to the college level because neither wanted to continue with Spanish. Most colleges make you test into a level of foreign language if you want to start with something other than the first level. Thus, at least you would have less of a chance of enrolling them into an advanced class that they aren't prepared for. Many kids with two years of a language in public school don't test past the 1st semester of college language.
If you are wanting easy Spanish, then it probably won't be worth much college credit, if at all. Languages at the college level are often pretty intense - depending on the college of course. At the university where my son attends, foreign languages are 4 credit courses while most other regular courses are 3 credit. Still, an easy program would give your student some background in the language and maybe the transition into college would be a little less stressful.
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I may also consider giving her credit for the two semester courses she was taking there (Health and Video Game Programming with Scratch) even though she wasn't quite done with them... if anyone has an opinion on whether I should do this, I'd love to hear...
I would give her credit.
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I can not tell whether you are asking a question and if so, what that question might be.
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I might get flamed, but this is why I think two years of a foreign language in high school and/or college is completely pointless. Unless someone is very motivated and can spend some time immersed in the language they won't learn much. And then if they stop using it, poof all that is gone rather quickly. Most people I know have studied some sort of foreign language at some point and none of them can still speak it (if they ever actually spoke it at all).
For a lot of kids it is pointless. Mine were not interested in languages in highschool at all so we took the easier route with Rosetta Stone Homeschool. Now that may daughter has decided to major in voice and has to sing in German, Italian and French she has become more interested in languages. The Rossetta Stone Spanish helped her quite a bit with the Italian songs. And now she will learn more languages in college and actually have use for them. My son is taking ASL as his foreign language in college and since he likes to work with his hands, he enjoys learning it.
I am not entirely against dropping the 2 year foreign language requirement for highschool. I do think it's good to expose kids to a foreign language because it may turn out that they have a knack for it. My daughter has a friend who can speak on 3 foreign languages and she's only 16. So, maybe for some kids, 1 year for discovery would be a good requirement for revealing a natural talent and interest.
That said, I see no logic in calling a programming language a foreign language because it simply is not. I have programmed in something like 15 languages. It takes me about a day of programming to do this decently and a few weeks to know the language so well that I think through a project using that language construct. It's just not the same thing as a foreign language.
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I am TOTALLY shocked to hear that. They are not, as another posted mentioned, in any way similar. <shrug>
I did a little bit of research on this. It looks like there are a few states that have introduced bills to make it so, but only one state has actually passed it. And no - I didn't find it in the Onion! I double checked. One thing is very clear - the politicians that are backing this have absolutely no programming background. And from what I can tell, colleges aren't in agreement with this idea at all. So, personally, I think it would be foolish to limit a childs future by pinning hopes on such a nonsensical change in core requirements.
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I have absolutely no intention of using computer programming as substitute for English. When I say language I am referring to foreign language. My categories are just the way I am grouping subjects as a way of deciding what path to pursue -AP vs DE vs other approach, not how I would be assigning credits. I am lumping computer science with foreign language because they seem similar to me in terms of how the student would interact with the material - learning grammar/syntax and developing fluency, etc.
ETA: I edited my previous post for clarity.
I majored in computer science in college and am a working systems analyst. Programming languages and foreign languages are not in any way similar.
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As people stated above, the amount of credit for the group class will depend upon the hours spent. If the class meets all year, then I would guess that they are intending it to be a full credit course.
For composition, I considered a full credit course to consist of 6 to 8 various types and lengths of essays totaling about 30 pages plus practice writing 1 to 2 paragraph length short answers. When I was working on my MLS degree, I was told by one of my writing professors that I should plan to spend 3 hours per page to create a passable first-draft essay followed by several more hours of work reorganizing, wordsmithing, etc. to turn it into a good essay.
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I had a hiccup, after I read the 9th grade planning thread, where I kind-of (but not really) panicked about the fact that dd just-turned-14-about-5-minutes-ago isn't ready to take 3 APs and 2 DE classes. I had to talk myself down and realize that dd is who she is, and she's where she is right now, and that's fine.
She has lofty goals, and I feel responsible for helping her reach them, but in the end, it's up to her to take control of her own future. I hope to help her gradually assume more control as she gets older and more experienced with high school.
From my experience (I've graduated one who's now in college and one who is a senior accepted into college), you don't have to go as heavy on academics as you often read about in this forum. What I was told by several admissions people is that since the AP/SAT tests proved some of their grades, they assumed that the other ones not proven were accurate also. So, I learned that testing for some subjects was good enough. The other thing is that we didn't try to get college credit for every course because it really is okay for a highschool student to do highschool level work. Especially in 9th grade. We started 9th grade with one AP/honors class. By 12th, about 1/3 to 1/2 of their credits were honors or dual-credit. That was good enough for admissions and merit aid and they also had lives outside of academics.
When planning for highschool, just make sure that you hit the core requirements at the high school level and then see which ones you and your student want to make more rigorous. Sometimes, that happens naturally, without an AP/honors plan, simply because your student is more interested in the subject and wants to delve in deeper.
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That is completely unacceptable. In addition, I wouldn't have my kids take a course where they could not improve upon their writing based on the comments while the essay is still fresh in their minds. This is how you become a better writer.
Having to do writing assignments before receiving comments from the last isn't going to improve the students skills at all and in fact would be very discouraging.
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The advantage of an AP class over dual enrollment, if you are attending them in person, is that your younger teen won't be in a class with 19+ year olds. Whether this is an issue or not often depends on the subject of the course and the maturity needed for the material and whether your child is comfortable in that environment. With online courses, those may or may not be issues. We held off on dual credit until my daughter was a senior. My son didn't dual credit at all.
Another option is to plan a course as preparation for the AP test without it being an official AP course. This is often a less expensive route. We did several courses this way. If my kids got 4s or 5s on the AP test (which they did on all of them that they took), I designated the course as honors. In addition, their honors courses were all taught at college level, so the AP tests were mainly to prove that. Once they hit their senior years and I had to send transcripts prior to the test, I just made my best guess whether they were prepared or not. The advantage of this was that it was a cheaper way to get the honors weighting on the transcript and the college credit with the added benefit that we could wait until closer to the end of the course to decide if an AP test would be doable. In addition, the at home AP option, allows you to take a whole year (or even more) to prepare for the AP tests rather than having to cram it all in to a one semester dual credit course.
Our approach with APs was mostly to give our kids the education that we wanted to give them and then to see what APs might work as we moved along. We took the 4 year classical approach to do history and literature with a lot of writing involved. By the end of that they were prepared for both the AP European History, the AP World History, the AP Literature and the AP English Language tests. We didn't plan them with AP criteria in mind but rather picked up the AP study guides somewhere near the time that we would have to sign up to determine which tests they were ready for. They also took a few courses that interested them with the AP tests in mind after spending a year on a subject. Those include Human Geography for my son and Music Theory for my daughter.
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I have to say that our mileage differs from some of the other commenters. My daughter is not mathy and all, but self taught using SIngapore NEM. She used Singapore in the earlier levels also and found them to be easy to understand. After NEM 1 & 2, we moved on to AOPS levels that required Algebra I and she was very prepared. Now she's taking a dual credit math class at the local college to get math out of the way prior to college. She's getting an A in that so far.
I minored in math in college yet I personally don't value proof style Geometry simply because nobody ever uses it. I find that learning geometry more intuitively makes it stick for later real world applications.
I agree that you could count it as pre-algebra and algebra. I taught my kids math in the more Singapore-like integrated style all through highschool, so their transcripts showed Integrated Math with the subjects that they covered in the course descriptions.
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NEM is considered more advanced that DM. Singapore NEM integrates Algebra, Geometry and some Statistics. If you just did the Algebra chapters in NEM 1 and NEM 2, skipping the Geometry and Stats, your student would be prepared for high school Geometry and Algebra II. I don't know how long you plan to homeschool, but if you did all of 1 and 2, you'd have Algebra I and Geometry covered and could go straight into Algebra II. NEM is set up much like the earlier level programs - it's integrated, switching between Algebra, Geometry and Stats with reviews after every 2 or 3 chapters.
I'm not answering because of this, but I have NEM 1 & 2 up for sale in the classifieds if your interested.
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Maybe you could create a course called something like "The Scientific Method" and do science fair like projects in her areas of interest but without the science fair stress. You wouldn't have to do the display boards or formal presentations or anything like that. And she could do various kinds of project - she wouldn't have to stick with just one type of science. The course would teach her how to start with a hypothesis, how to prepare for and test that hypothesis and how to record her lab work and lab results which might even include some art work as an added bonus. There are books out there with science fair project suggestions that she could look at and decide what she might want to try. If it causes too much stress, you could choose to not continue and you wouldn't have invested in a whole science curriculum.
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I agree with regentrude on this. She really doesn't need science prep for a biology course and 3.5 years of science is totally acceptable. In fact, in many colleges, 3 years is enough. So, you can breathe a sigh of relief and just do what's best for your daughter this year.
If she wants to do a science anyway there are many resources out there for environmental science and geology that could be self taught. We used New Beginnings "The Rainbow" for 8th and 9th grade. 8th was general science followed by environmental in 9th. My daughter was able to do it entirely on her own in just a few hours a week and actually learned a lot. It was fun and not stressful. It might not be considered as difficult of science as others, but she moved on to and an outside provider using Apologia Biology in 10th, Advanced Biology in 11th and Chemistry in 12th and did great. And there were no issues with college admissions.
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It's frustrating that I homeschool in part to avoid the ridiculous testing, but in the end all my hard work (and all my kids' hard work) comes down to testing.
I hate standardized tests, and I think they are bunk. My oldest got an 18 on the ACT after four tries and testing accommodations, and she's an A/B student with a bio major and a chem minor. I used to work for a textbook development company, and I worked on stadardized test development. They're a bunch of hooey, imo.
Totally understand your sentiments. We tried to strike a balance in that we provided courses (both inside and outside providers) that we felt would give our kids a good education. And then we took a look at the AP tests and decided which ones they were prepared for. But yes, testing accomplishments and actual accomplishments often don't correlate. Nor does a great education necessarily correlate with what is tested.
You have an interesting background. I hope that you demonstrate your credentials somewhere in your transcripts. If you don't do a bunch of standardized tests and you explain why in your homeschooling philosophy, that, along with your experience, might be enough. Maybe use words other than 'bunk' or 'hooey' (LOL)! Although these words do get the point across!
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I don't know yet when she will be graduating, so I am keeping my options flexible. She may graduate a year early, so the coursework she has done this year may be her 9th grade course work. She has done high school-level work this year.
Maybe just hold off with the honors designation on Algebra I until after she has Geometry and takes the SAT. I wouldn't consider the SAT score a valid measurement of just Algebra I because there is quite a bit of geometry on the test. Then, if she scores in the 700+ range then honors would be about right.
From my own experience with college admissions for both my kids, their As in honors History, Literature and Composition were backed by APs in world history, european history, english literature and english composition along with SAT 800s in critical reasoning. On the other hand, I gave them Bs and B+s in regular level math courses and they both scored in the mid 600s on the math sections of their SATs. Both admissions departments that evaluated their transcripts said that my mommy grades and honors designations were very consistent with the test results. I was also told that this is often not the case with homeschoolers. They see a lot of straight As and honors without the test scores to back up it up. Either they don't admit these students or they don't give them merit aid.
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I do not understand the bolded. Algebra 1 is what carries the heaviest weight on the ACT and SAT math sections. There is very little algebra 2, and virtually no precalculus involved.
Algebra 1 and Geometry do carry the most weight on the SAT, but you'd have to have higher level competencies to score in the 700 to 800 range. The SAT includes more difficult problems to separate the average students from the very best students. I can't speak for the ACT.
The tests that you'll want to take, in addition, to prove honors math are the SAT II subject tests, the AP math tests or you can go the dual-credit route. Or you can justify it with your curriculum. The latter is less accepted by colleges than the former suggestions and can make your entire transcript questionable by college admissions people. So, as a homeschooler, you'll want to be careful with honors designations.
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So I guess I wouldn't make the decision on how to designate it until she gets her ACT scores? She plans to take the ACT in June, but she's only in 8th grade, so I wouldn't worry about her scores until she's in 11th grade.
Her 8th grade GPA won't be counted on a high school transcript anyway. The only thing you can do with that is note that she took Algebra I in 8th grade. But why would you as this is not uncommon. If they don't see Algebra I on her transcript, but see the higher level courses in 9th through 12th grade, then they'll know that she took Algebra I in middle school.
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I'm not sure withdrawing the application is a great idea. Not just yet anyway. I would call the college admissions and find out what they suggest before taking extreme measures such as with drawing the application. Make sure you speak to an admission counselor rather than the student who answers the phone. Most colleges accept students during their senior year contingent upon grades sent at the end of their senior year. Some colleges want mid-term grades, but not all of them do.
It is still possible for your daughter to finish highschool if she works into the summer, and then she could start in the Fall if desired. Another option might be to delay enrollment until the Spring. Many colleges won't require a new application for that nor will they pull merit aid. We actually put off my son's enrollment for an entire year while keeping his merit aid intact.
Also, if you have a chance of getting federal or state aid, go ahead and fill out the fafsa for her anyways. It won't hurt to do so even if she does end up waiting a year.
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I didn't answer the 'related note' question in my above response. An honors designation is not based on hours only, but they usually do involve more time. You would need to justify your designation either by using an outside provider that offers an honors level or AP course, or by scoring well on AP or CLEP exams. A one credit honors or AP course in highschool is usually equivalent to a 3 credit college course.
If you go the AP route, note that you can't name your course 'AP' unless you have it officially approved by the college board. What I did is give my kids honors credit for course that they took from an outside non-AP source and then they took the AP tests to prove honors level. These courses were taught by college professors and were the same as 200 and 300 college level courses that they had previously taught.
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Additional hours can mean that either the student doesn't learn as fast or that they are working more difficult problems. You could give honors credit if it is the latter, but I would warn you that you will need to show some kind of justification for honors level math on your transcript if your student is college-bound. Certain programs are more accepted as honors than others. For example AOPS has Challenger problems that turn the regular math course into an honors course.
Getting high scores on the SAT Math Level 2 test or even better, high scores on the AP Calculus tests later on in your student's high school career could indicate that he/she worked at a higher level in Math in the earlier courses such as Algebra I, Geometry, etc. and work as proof for honors level in the earlier math courses such as Algebra. If getting good scores on these tests would be out of reach for your student, I would not give honors credit for a math course.
Many kids, mine included, spent more time on math than on some other subjects. Not because they are honors math students, but because they needed to do a lot of practice problems in order to get it. An hour a day, 5 days a week is not unusual amount of time to spend on a regular math course. For a 30 week school year, that's about 150 hours.
I don't hear of a lot of people giving honors credit for math unless it is taught via an outside source. Usually, the way a student stands out in math is that they move on to the higher levels more quickly. An advanced math student will usually breeze through Algebra I, Geometry and Algebra II pretty quickly and then move on the pre-calc and maybe even calc in their jr/sr years.
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We used Trisms and loved it. My daughter was able to study independently and many of the books were available through the library. It covered composition, literature and history in the 4 year classical sequence. There's a lot of flexibility to tailor it to your kids interests and ability.
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My husband double majored in college with a BFA in printmaking and a teaching degree along with a focus in graphic design. He ended up starting his own advertising and marketing agency earning national awards for his logos and identity pieces in addition to numerous regional awards for his actual ads. Later on, his company began focusing on more web sites as advertising, p.r. etc moved to the digital world. There are really good jobs for people with some artistic/design sense and illustration abilities. If this would be a possible direction for your daughter, I would recommend having a curriculum that would satisfy college or design school admissions requirements. In addition, you might want to consider an accounting course sometime during the high school years because often people in these kinds of fields often work in small businesses or independently. The same goes for artists. For example, my husband sub-contracted self-employed photographers, illustrators (even for the digital world) and copy writers.
I think your transcript easily covers what it needs to for a college bound student so you aren't closing her future options. In fact, it looks pretty challenging! You have math, english, science, history and foreign language covered along with fine arts and music.
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Looking for Great New History Program for 9th Grade
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
Another course to shake things up might be Human Geography. My son loved it. There are mapping activity possibilities, on line activities, etc. It can be a more hands on course plus he could take the Human Geography AP test as his first AP. It's one of the tests that don't require background beyond a one year human geography course.