emubird
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Posts posted by emubird
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After much angst, I decided that we would spend about 1 hour per day per class--or finish a textbook--for the high school classes. I also spend 30 to 60 minutes with each of them (more or less) to go over work together. That gives us about 7 hours of school each day. Nope, we don't get as many books read and our classes do not go in depth as deeply or cover as much as many folks here, but my college aged dd in public relations is still getting 4.0 and my guy in engineering is somewhere between a 4.0 and a 3.0. We seem to have done O.K.
Jean
This has also been our experience. We just don't do as much. We decide on those things that are most important to us. We make time to do those. The others may or may not get done. We don't stress about it.
A lot of things don't really need the time put into them that the curricula say they do. Some need a lot more. And kids need the down time to process things in their own heads. Sleep is more important than a few more hours of school work.
Although this wasn't what I decided we really needed to do, what gone done in the academics (for my eldest) was: math through calculus, lots of reading on lots of different subjects, an AP US history test, some ancient history, a smattering of world history (mostly through movies, but also through a lot of reading), biology, chemistry, a moderate amount of Spanish, and a bit of French and Latin. She did not write NEARLY as much as I wanted her to. I thought that was our big, big failing. We also didn't get to physics as a home course. We could have done it easily (as I just about have a physics major -- in all but the actual diploma), but she just didn't have the time.
She also did a lot of art, music, drama, and sports. This took up so much time that it forced her to cut back on the academics. Which was a good thing. Not only did she get to do things she wanted to do, that she may not have time for later in life, it also taught her a lot about getting up in front of a group and presenting herself well.
She's now a senior in high school and doesn't do much of anything academically with me anymore except some reading and discussion and history. She's taking college classes instead. She's doing physics at the college level without having had any high school physics. She has the highest grade in the class. (This is calculus based physics for engineers and physics majors.)
She hardly wrote in her high school years, but when she finally had to sit down and do it, it turned out she wrote pretty well. At least, she got comments back to that effect from the scholarship essays she had to write. I suspect it was all the reading and talking we did. We discussed A LOT.
Colleges really want her, so it worked out ok, despite me never thinking she was doing enough. I was particularly stressed about the writing. With my next daughter, I'm approaching this in a different way. If she can write various formats of papers, I leave it at that. I'm not going to have her practice it over and over if she's got it down, no matter what curricula tell us she should be doing. This is, in the end, what we ended up doing with my elder daughter, but we stressed a lot more about how she wasn't doing enough.
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On the topic of college scholarships --
If you have a kid with decent test scores and an interesting background (I think yours will certainly qualify on that last count), private schools may end up being much cheaper than public universities. It's definitely worth applying. You might be pleasantly surprised. Many of the less well known schools don't even charge application fees if you apply online.
My daughter is finding that her two cheapest alternatives right now are the two pricey private colleges she applied to. Both have beat the "cheaper" tuition at the public university.
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You might want to check out the lectures at Berkeley that are FREE and more detailed. Here's a whole course about the Roman Empire:
http://webcast.berkeley.edu/course_details.php?seriesid=1906978539
If you're looking for videos, a few non-Teaching Company ideas are: Michael Woods (he's got ones on Troy, Alexander the Great, India...)
Bettany Hughes (she did a couple on Mediterranean ancient history)
but there are just loads of history and biology out there. You just have to know where to look. I see that Carl Sagan's Cosmos is on youtube. It could be there are other things on there too.
However, if I were buying Teaching Company lectures, I'd generally get the CDs rather than the DVDs because they're cheaper. For the most part, these lecturers just sit at a desk and lecture, so the DVDs aren't worth it.
You can probably tell which ones you might need visuals for -- art, maybe?
But I've never bought a single one, because our library has so many of them.
And they're really not that hard to listen to. If you can only get it through ILL, even a week would get you through a 12 lecture set if you put your mind to it.
Of the Teaching Company CDs, Vandiver is my kids' favorite. They hated Neil DeGrasse Tyson and John McWhorter (the latter struck them as condescending - his books are better anyway). Amy-Jill Levine does an interesting one on the Old Testament. There was also a 36 lecture archaeology one that one of my kids enjoyed, but I can't remember the name of the lecturer.
My big complaint about all the Teaching Company lectures, though, is they tend not to do things in much depth. They really are overview courses. They're ok for listening to in the car, while you're doing the dishes, etc, but if you want more depth I think you're going to have to start reading.
And I've not been impressed with the science or math ones that we've tried. They're more into the gee whiz factoid way of presenting material, rather than deep understanding. We've really found a lot of the PBS shows to be better for science. I have never found any media other than books that works for math for us.
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Does she have the opportunity to take AP tests? If she does, that might move her up a year in college anyway.
I don't know that labs in college are the big deal that she may think they are. My daughter's classes ("with lab") often have very little lab work. It really varies. Your daughter may do just as well designing her own labs.
If she's really interested in research, she could just start now. There are things one can research without a ton of expensive equipment. This may turn out to be much more fulfilling for her than starting college early -- and make her look really impressive to colleges. A decent research project could fill a whole year. If she's looking for ideas, she could try hunting around on the web (yahoo groups etc) for ideas and possible web mentors. What field is she interested in?
If it were me, I'd also want to look in to what the local university situation is. It may not be a US education, and it may or may not "count" for anything if she goes to a US college, but I would think the opportunity to experience education in a different culture might turn out to be really useful in the years ahead.
Also, I'm not completely convinced that the Apologia science curriculum is all that advanced. She could do a full year of just studying a field of science in a more advanced way. She could "do" an AP course even if she doesn't take the test. There are lots of resources online for many of these courses. Lots of kids in public high schools around here do three years of biology/chemistry/physics and THEN do the AP course in one or two of them.
Also, if the calculus course she's doing is at all meaty, she may well find that she wants to slow down and really get it. My kids blasted through all the math up to calculus. They could have finished calculus in a year, but have chosen to go slower so as to be sure to understand it. Also, the AP Calc that's taught in the high schools here generally takes 2 years (AB and BC). My oldest is VERY glad she took it slow. It gave her a good basis for taking multivariable calc, which she probably would have done really bad in (like most of the rest of the class) if she didn't understand the first 2 semesters of college calculus really well.
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Some random thoughts:
There are good and bad profs everywhere. (And good and bad TAs at the schools that use them.)
Debt will be a big consideration for the field your daughter is considering.
One of the schools (LAC) my daughter is considering told us point blank that they know the W-2 forms don't tell the whole financial story. They were inviting families to tell them if their needs were higher for some reason. I obviously don't know if that's true for all schools, but it might be worth investigating.
There are religion depts within the big schools that concern themselves with faith issues -- I know a couple kids in religion at the big U near here who are finding it just what they would like. I think one does have to be somewhat tolerant of other ideas -- A big university is going to be a place of many ideas and faiths etc, but that doesn't mean one has to change one's own ideas and values to fit in. It may be that joining clubs or organizations will help her to fit in and find kindred spirits. If she's already at the school now, she might want to see if she can find some of these groups to see if they'd be helpful.
I did ok at a big university. The big classes were mostly in the first two years. After that they got much smaller and more personal. If your daughter has already done a number of credits, she may have gotten a significant number of those large classes out of the way already.
At big schools, you really do have to search out opportunities. There aren't people holding your hand quite so much. In general. But everything depends on the particular school.
Folks at small schools will give you a very impressive picture of what their school is like -- but there aren't so many people doing PR (on a per capita basis) at large schools. So the large schools may not look as great.
In some ways, large schools provide more opportunities as there are more varied classes and more majors to choose from. Depends on the school.
I suspect seminary is where most of the important topics for pastors are covered. Undergrad is probably more the basic stuff -- reading, communicating, history, that kind of thing. A woman who works at the local seminary here told me she thought that the students coming in who had already had Greek or Latin had a bit of an advantage -- but that suggests that there are plenty of students coming in who have had neither who do just fine.
Most colleges do a fine job of educating most students. Brochures may tell you otherwise, admissions folks may tell you otherwise, but that really is the reality. When I went to grad school, my fellow students came from ALL kinds of backgrounds, educationally speaking, but we were all on a pretty equal footing. Except that a few (not all) of the kids from small LACs seemed to *think* they were smarter. They were cured of that problem within the first semester or so. Even those people who had started out at CC because their grades weren't good enough at first for a 4 year school did just fine in the grad school I was in.
Also, a number of LACs do offer scholarships to transfer students. So if she goes to the big U and finds it's really not what she wants, there may still be the option to transfer.
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The most money we've spent on high school has been for AP tests and a graphing calculator. We get pretty much everything from the library or from used book sales. I've been collecting math books for years from rummage sales. If you're near a university area, lots of people unload their old college texts for a quarter.
If I had to use a curriculum, I'm convinced it would actually take a lot more of my time -- dealing with the "do I have to do this" and figuring out which things are silly and which info is just plain wrong would eat up a lot of hours. I haven't found a curriculum yet that covers anything my kids want to learn.
For foreign language, we check Pimsleur out of the library (some libraries have it online). I bought a text for French in Action and another for Destinos, but I got both used at decent prices. The videos are online at the Annenberg/CPB site. We did ASL with the Bravo family tapes which we got from the library.
We used to use the MEP math curriculum on the web. It's free, except for your printing costs. I think this might continue into high school years.
http://www.cimt.plymouth.ac.uk/projects/mep/default.htm
Overall, if we don't count extracurricular sports and drama fees, we probably only spent a few hundred dollars on high school. Most of that, as I mentioned, was the AP test fees and a graphing calculator.
Emu
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There are some college professors who will expect that students know these formulas. However, even those students who memorized them for a previous class will find they have to re-learn them, so it's not a big deal just using a "cheat sheet" now.
Usually, outside of school, people just look these up when they need them.
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If you want something quick and easy, but with a lot to talk about, try Animal Farm.
Lord of the Flies is probably an easy read, but most kids I know who've read it didn't really like it.
To Kill a Mockingbird is a real easy read, and appeals to lots of people. There's definitely a lot in it to discuss.
The Old Man and the Sea isn't too taxing - also with lots of themes.
More modern books may be easier: Slaughterhouse 5, Tell Me a Riddle, Woman Warrior, The Kitchen God's Wife, Native Son, but you might be getting into themes that you'd want to preview.
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Oh, I forgot to mention sparknotes. You'll hardly need a literary guide if you use sparknotes:
And on Dostoyevsky -- I read Crime and Punishment in high school (although not for a class) and couldn't put it down. I didn't find his other books as easy to read, though. There are different translations. The Constance Garnett one is not supposed to be so good. The Pevear and Lakhonsky one gets high recommendations. There's another one that people like too, but I can't remember the name of the translator.
Other books I couldn't put down in high school were Pride and Predjudice and Jane Eyre. Don't be put off by the "romance" aspect of Pride and Predjudice. It's really a very funny book, and the writing is great.
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If you want to read plays out loud, you could try some Greek drama. They generally only have 3 characters plus a chorus in each scene, so it's doable with a small group.
We've done Oedipus Rex. We're going to try for Antigone next. It's easier going than The Iliad or The Odyssey, as we're doing it as a group.
If you really want to do things up, you can get Elizabeth Vandiver's lectures from the Teaching Company on Greek tragedy. We got them out of the library, so they're free. We could never afford to buy them. (She also has lectures on mythology, Herodotus, and The Iliad and Odyssey.)
For reading, there are lots of lists around of 100 best books, or whatever. Let your kids choose what looks interesting to them.
Here are a few lists:
http://www.collegeboard.com/student/plan/boost-your-skills/23628.html
http://www.interleaves.org/~rteeter/greatbks.html
http://als.lib.wi.us/Collegebound.html
Emubird
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If the grandmother has lots of extra money to invest, then it doesn't matter if lots of it goes away every year on taxes - there is still enough left to do something with later. If it isn't a lot, though, it can all be eaten up by yearly taxes while it is waiting to be spent.
-Nan
What you are saying implies that her principal is being taxed away. Is this true? On investments, we've only ever paid tax on interest earned or capital gains.
Also, someone was mentioning advice they heard from one college financial aid office. I wouldn't assume that what one college did/said would apply to all of them. They may say it applies to all, but they may be lying. A college I was at recently took any outside scholarships and applied them to the aid they'd "given" me, so I ended up with no more than what they originally said they'd give me. When I complained, they said it was standard practice, that ALL colleges do this. It isn't standard practice and it isn't even all THAT common. (In fact, it seems uncommon enough that when I've mentioned this on boards in the past, I've been severely criticized for not knowing what I was talking about. I've been told no colleges would do such an underhanded thing. I must be mistaken, and downright stupid besides...)
So I wouldn't take one college's word for things. They may only be telling you what THEY do, and then making it seem normal by saying everyone does it.
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If it's in the student's account, it will be assumed that ALL that money will be used to pay for college. If it's in the parents' account, only a portion of it will be assumed to be for college.
So there is a bit of a break if the parents hang onto the money until it's needed. This would also be true for money in the grandparent's account. As the FAFSA doesn't ask about grandparent assets, it's possible that moving money from grandparent's account to parent's or student's account at just the right time would be the way to go.
However, if the grandparent's have wanted a yearly tax break over time, this won't work for them. It would still make sense for the grandparents to put this gift into the parents accounts, with the understanding that that is for the student when the time comes, but this depends on having a trustworthy family, I suppose.
I don't know if one can really call this lying to the govt, as everybody just "knows" that's what you do. If you go to "how to finance college" seminars, this is the advice they'll give. I assume if the govt didn't like this approach, they'd do something to close this loophole.
My guess is, that for most of us, it doesn't really make a big difference to the govt. Rich grandparents tend to have rich kids. Many of us with rich grandparents, if we qualify for anything through the need based aid, will mostly be getting loans, not grants, so they probably assume it's a small minority that might use this trick to get more grant aid. Loans are supposed to get repaid, so it's only the "lower" interest that the govt is paying for (and with economy where it is right now, I'm not sure the govt is actually losing money on that "low" interest rate).
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At this point, I'd be asking for the opportunity to resubmit the assignment, given how the teacher responded. As the student, I might be willing to let it go just to keep the peace, but if you let the teacher step on her this time, the teacher will probably just continue the behavior. And your student will probably resent the teacher for not accepting this assignment. It's going to spill over into her attitude towards getting her work done. It's not a good situation to allow to continue, on either end.
I don't have a lot of tolerance for this sort of response from teachers. They need to be polite. It doesn't set up an atmosphere of trust between teacher and student if they're not. The student (and parent, if you write) also need to be super polite -- if only to set an example. At the very least, the teacher needs to understand that she has to read and *understand* the emails she's getting from her students, rather than just making assumptions.
If the teacher doesn't want the parent involved, you might point out that you are, in fact, paying the bill. I get a little tired of colleges that try to pull this trick too -- calling it helicopter parenting and acting like the parents are doing too much for their kids. I've come to suspect that a lot of the reason why teachers/colleges don't want parents involved is because it makes it more difficult for them to rule their little kingdom without an adult, with adult experience, coming in and insisting that things be done right.
I've always found that teachers (and colleges) that welcomed parent involvement were more inclined to treat their students fairly.
However, I would suggest that the first step is, as someone already suggested, having your daughter write and explain, very politely, that the teacher didn't understand the first email she sent. It could be that the teacher will realize her mistake and completely fix things, including accepting the "late" assignment. I would NOT ignore this just to keep the peace, because your daughter is probably going to resent how she was treated.
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I'd say physics would be out. Even for conceptual physics you need a bit of algebra.
But there are lots of other sciences. He could do something more specialized in biology like botany or entomology or anything else that interests him.
Geology is an option. And maybe astronomy, if one didn't get into astrophysics. Or oceanography or meteorology.
A hands on electronics course might also be fun.
These days, most geometry courses do use algebra, so there is some review.
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If Grandma wants to finance part of the kids' education, and if she puts this money into a savings account for them in their name before the FAFSA is filed, it will be assumed that ALL this money will go towards paying for college. This will increase the EFC as calculated by the FAFSA.
Grandma should keep the money until the actual bills come.
If you think your student is going to qualify for merit aid, you probably want to apply to a number of schools, to see who gives the best deal. It should be clear to the student that this is the goal, that they aren't going to get to choose whichever one they like best.
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We haven't found ratemyprofessors.com to be all that helpful. The ratings seem to mostly be made by students who just want to complain -- without taking any responsibility for their own failings. Based on classes my daughter has taken, it seems that easy profs seem to get high ratings. Ones who require more automatically get low ratings, even if they are excellent teachers.
If every student in a class was required to submit a rating, I think you'd get a much better view. Also, I would pretty much discount any ratings that are based on just a few responses -- say, less than a hundred.
And for a couple professors, while there might be accurate comments, my daughter has found that things other people complain about didn't bother her at all. Some she has even found to be positives, but there was no way she would get that impression from reading the brief comments on that site. I'd be leery of making any major decisions based on that site.
As far as deciding is concerned, it should probably be based on whether, first, the school has an adequate department in whatever the student wants to study -- with adequate backups if the student changes majors -- second, on finances. After that, most colleges are all going to be pretty similar and the student would be happy at any of them, unless there are some specific extracurricular things or classes that they're interested in. If there are things that are going to be a problem, you probably won't know about them until you're already there anyway.
Keep in mind that most colleges do a perfectly adequate job of educating most kids. But if there are specific things about a college that a student is looking forward to, by all means, be sure to check if they really have those things. Circumstances change so quickly sometimes.
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We haven't minded the squirrels too much, except that they would chew holes in our bird feeders. It turns out that squirrels can taste hot peppers. Birds, supposedly, do not. We painted out feeders with a "tea" made of hot pepper (just soak a dried hot pepper in hot water like you would for tea). It kept the squirrels from chewing.
It has not kept them from eating the seeds, however.
I've watched squirrels jump at our feeders and seem to fall - but afterwards, they go down and eat the seeds they spilled by tipping the feeder. I'm not convinced they're falling. I think they know that they can get the seeds to come out by launching themselves at the feeder.
We've also painted our Halloween pumpkins with a cut jalapeno to keep the squirrels from eating them. We only have to do it once every few years, probably whenever there's a new generation of squirrels in the neighborhood who didn't experience it last time.
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My daughter got invited to a football game, but she would have had to buy the ticket herself. Apparently there's some rule against giving away football tickets.
Is that college specific, or something having to do with the NCAA?
We've only gotten one catalog.
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It really isn't the student's responsibility to make up the transcript (or resubmit the transcript numerous times when the college keeps "losing" it). And we can't expect our kids to do the rest of it on their own if every other kid in school has a counselor who can tell them what to do.
I also suspect that many kids need a bit of support in remembering deadlines. This doesn't mean they're not ready for college. It does mean that remembering all those deadlines in the throes of dealing with college anxiety is pretty hard. A bit of support isn't a bad thing.
Also, those of us who have been through college know some of the ins and outs that the kids won't know. There's no reason why we shouldn't counsel them. It's what a good high school college counselor would be doing. My daughter has always wanted me right there when she's been dealing with college people. They talk a different language. She doesn't know it. Sometimes she needs me there to translate. Mostly, I don't say anything, but I've saved her a couple of major messes by a few well timed words.
And as far as meeting scholarship deadlines is concerned, yes, that really is my affair. It will cost *us* a lot of money if she goofs up on that. We've approached this as a joint project. She doesn't resent it and neither do I. But it is a lot of work.
However, I don't write her essays for her. That is her job.
Emu
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We watched Branagh's Hamlet. My kids found the sets the most interesting part of it, but they're into that kind of thing. My kids also really enjoyed Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead, as someone else suggested. I thought it was going to be too weird for them, but apparently not.
Then we watched a really short version of MacBeth. I'm thinking it was all of about 30 minutes. It was made for middle school kids (although still with plenty of violence) and included all the major quotes, while cutting out what were assumed to be the boring bits. MacBeth rode around on a motorcycle instead of a horse (although he still called it his steed). I can't remember who put that out, but if you were to find it, it might be a quick way to "do" MacBeth if you just can't stand another tragedy and you're already doing Hamlet.
I saw a stage version of MacBeth when I was in high school. I think it may have had Charlton Heston in it (or someone else like that). It was the only time I've ever fallen asleep during a play.
But I'd vote for doing both if you're unsure. I might not do them both in depth, just one. Watch the play for the other, discuss a little, and move on...
Emu
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FWIW, my impression is that classes at Harvard do Destinos all in one year, but it looks to me like it was really intended for 3 college semesters (maybe 4 if you go slow?). Destinos looks like it was meant to fill the same time as FIA.
The local high school uses FIA for French. I think they spread it out over at least 4 years. But they don't get to the AP level of French until year 6 (obviously, a student would have to place out of the first 2 years of high school French to get to this level).
My niece's high school did Destinos in 3 years.
If your intent is to do FIA and he's ready to go, I might skip the last of the Learnables, unless he's enjoying it. FIA starts at the beginning anyway. Or you could do them simultaneously. If he's done some French already, he may really breeze through the first chapters of FIA.
BTW, the workbooks turn an "immersion" course into a grammar course. At least that's what I thought. So you might not need a separate grammar book. If you did, there would probably be something at the library. (And FIA does a lot more onscreen grammar than Destinos.)
A word of warning about FIA. You aren't going to understand everything that's said in the videos. It's really ok. As long as you get what they are drilling, you'll be fine going on to the next lesson.
Emu
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I found there was a lot of grammar in the FIA workbooks. That amount of grammar has been sufficient for us. I also got 500 French verbs which is helpful. The text is actually less important than the workbooks, although it has the transcript of the video, which can be pretty helpful when the words are flying by.
You can't do the workbooks very well without the audio tapes. I did discover that a library near us (not "our" library, but we can get borrowing privileges) has all the audio tapes for the Destinos program (the Spanish version), so it might be worth looking around to see if you could find the FIA tapes at a library.
I got the text at Alibris for only 20 dollars. I think you can sometimes even get it cheaper. It's really pricey if you buy it new, because all book publishers feel the need to overcharge for texts.
We've also liked Pimsleur as a supplement. It's also pricey, but our library has it so we've gotten it for free.
My older daughter did about 2/3 of Destinos and 2/3 of Pimsleur Spanish (levels I and II) and placed out of the first 2 years of college Spanish. The student does have to be motivated to get this result. It is all too easy just to let the words wash over you. But it can be done. (She also started FIA, but got distracted. There are only so many hours in the day.)
Emu
Are we all crazy? :) How can a kid get everything done in HS homeschool??
in High School and Self-Education Board
Posted
I've given up on getting mine up early. My kids seem to need 11-12 hours sleep a night. They get a lot more done during the day if they get the sleep they need, so I've given up fighting it. It's counterproductive. I've adjusted by getting all my work done before noon.
They really have tried to get to sleep earlier. They can go to bed earlier -- but they just don't go to sleep. I think they got my husband's night owl gene coupled with my needing lots of sleep gene.
I think the average amount of sleep a teen needs is somewhere around 9 hours. As we get older we need less, so we don't understand why our teens are being "lazy". But if my kids have a time of day when they can work better, if they do better with more sleep, if we're homeschooling and can take advantage of moving our schedule around, why not do it?
My SIL is appalled by this. She's glad she went to school for so many years because it "taught" her how to get out of bed for work. This took 13 years of schooling? My older daughter can get herself to her 8 AM class when she needs to -- after sleeping in almost every morning for 10 straight years.
This is one of the major reasons we started homeschooling in the first place. The school she was in the first couple years started at 7:30AM. And yet, despite getting dragged out of bed every morning for those two years, despite getting in to bed early, she never did manage to fall asleep early. Her clock just doesn't work that way. She was constantly sleep deprived, to the point where she was behaving irrationally. Her teacher thought she needed to be on medication...