I have a Q. for those using WTM for history in the Dialectic/Rhetoric stages

[LisaNY]

Hi Everyone!

 

I've been reading with much interest the thread on WTM for high school. I did do this w/my older dd in 9th gr., and we really enjoyed it. I used Spielvogel's HO as a "spine". He had lots of great discussions about the Great Books and history.

 

While I feel that we did get a lot out of that time, I know that there is MUCH more to this. Your posts prove that. :001_smile:

 

One of the things I love about TOG is how they tie things together, beginning each week with an overview of what's ahead, as well as a look back at what has been covered. I feel inadequate to do that myself. When I did history/Great Books ala WTM w/my older dd, we made the journey of discovery together. I did not step back and offer her overviews and connections. We kind of figured it out together, but not to the levels I'd like.

 

I'd love to hear how all of you are handling this aspect of your history studies ala WTM.

 

(BTW- It's all your fault! I'm doing fine with TOG, but you guys make it really tempting to branch out on my own again. Why would I want to do that when TOG has it all figured out for me? Can anyone tell me? Why would you use WTM when there is something that does all of the thinking/planning for you? Is it a creative, independent "bent", or something else?)

 

Thanks!

[TerriMI]

Lisa,

 

I have not followed TWTM for Rhetoric stages even though my older two dc are in that stage. However, the recent thread has also challenged me to take it up. I have used TOG and Omnibus in the past two years and am challenged to put them aside. Here are thoughts about one of the reasons to do both:

 

Because we learn both inductively and deductively.

 

What I mean is that my reliance on the preplanned curriculums shows the extreme weaknesses of my own education. I know that I want my children to have the experience of learning from someone who really knows something about the subject they are learning, to stand on their shoulders in other words. They cannot stand on my shoulders for much in many of the subjects. They can see further from someone who has "been there" and has workded hard and who loves the subject.

 

From them, they can see how it is to be able to make connections and to see the bigger picture and maybe to even see how it is to have gained wisdom in a quest to understand. Thus, as you pointed out, the need to have it all worked out for us to hand over to our own kids. And then, we can memorize what others have learned and are passing on to us through their curriculum and then make deductions for ourselves from and about those things.

 

But we also learn inductively, through our own discovery. TTHis is more what TWTM is trying to encourage, I think. Learning inductively makes the learning our own quest, not just memorizing someone else's quest. It can be an exciting adventure and things learned this way are often best remembered and best integrated in our own lives. They also can have some of the most creative results. The limitations of inductive study are, as you mention, that we are limited; we don't know lots about everything. And we can usually only make discoveries that others have made before us...kind of like reinventing the wheel. Also, because of our limitations, we might just make "discoveries" that are totally off, really wrong. So, I think that having both kinds of experiences, are a good balance. What I am trying to say here is that both paths of learning sort of correct or affirm what the other path is leading to, all in our quest to know what is Real.

 

Wondering if someone else can say it better,

 

TerriKY

[LisaNY]

AWESOME post, Terry! Thank you! You pinpointed my thoughts and feelings so well. :001_smile:

 

This is the part that I miss. I want that excitement of discovering things on my own, and having my dd do the same. Sort of taking ownership of what you discover - it cements things so much better, I think.

[Nan in Mass]

Better? Better? I think you just put into words beautifully something the rest of us have been trying to figure out for a LONG TIME. Thank you very much!

[Colleen in NS]

Why would you use WTM when there is something that does all of the thinking/planning for you? Is it a creative, independent "bent", or something else?)

 

Thanks!

 

Like I said, we are not nearly at high school yet.

 

But remember my outlining questions last week? Me trying to figure it all out? And now asking Nan about Bible study on that other thread?

 

I'm just stubborn in some ways and have to figure out how to do things myself. Independent, if I were to choose one of your words. Makes my life harder, too, LOL!! :)

[LisaNY]

Like I said, we are not nearly at high school yet.

 

But remember my outlining questions last week? Me trying to figure it all out? And now asking Nan about Bible study on that other thread?

 

I'm just stubborn in some ways and have to figure out how to do things myself. Independent, if I were to choose one of your words. Makes my life harder, too, LOL!! :)

 

Um, yep - me, too. I think that is why I am really wrestling with all of the thoughts and ideas in these two threads on WTM. I have been using TOG for many months, and I've been enjoying the fruits of the labor of others, but I'm finding that I LOVE making my own discoveries and blazing my own trails. After reading that other thread today, I went to two libraries, and right now, I have a stack of books on my desk, and my dd's. :001_rolleyes: I'm already jotting down notes and ideas. I don't know what is going to come of it, but do it I must.

[Jenn in CA]

That was great. Well-said. Thanks!

 

I found that reading Cliff's Notes helped me understand a Shakespeare play so much... then afterwards, was able to make my own observations on another play. I learned from someone else's observations, how to make observations.

 

Some of both is a Good Thing.

[Colleen in NS]

After reading that other thread today, I went to two libraries, and right now, I have a stack of books on my desk, and my dd's. :001_rolleyes: I'm already jotting down notes and ideas. I don't know what is going to come of it, but do it I must.

 

ROTFL!!!!!!!:lol:

 

So what are you intensely studying?? I'm going to start up outlining and timelining SOTW 1 and KF soon....need to get my overview of history fix! Next will be "How Nature Works" - I'm just taking it all straight from logic stage WTM to get myself going......

 

Edit: Oooo, look at that....my level in the hive just went up! LOL

[LisaNY]

ROTFL!!!!!!!:lol:

 

So what are you intensely studying?? I'm going to start up outlining and timelining SOTW 1 and KF soon....need to get my overview of history fix! Next will be "How Nature Works" - I'm just taking it all straight from logic stage WTM to get myself going......

 

Edit: Oooo, look at that....my level in the hive just went up! LOL

 

That's what I'm doing - getting my overview of history fix. We'll be doing The War of 1812/Napoleon soon, so I'm doing some pre-reading of books I'd like my dd to read, as well as perusing through DK's History of the World and Spielvogel's HO. :001_smile: