New WTM how to do R level history

[Quiver0f10]

On page 491 in the new WTM Susan writes that at the end each chapter the student reads in their history book they are to stop and record four things. Is this step in addition to outlining the chapters or does it replace outlining? I have been listening to Susan's writing lectures and she mentions that highschoolers are outlining so I am a bit confused.

 

Thanks!

Edited May 23, 2010 by Quiver0f10

[Colleen in NS]

On page 491 in the new WTM Susan writes that at the end each chapter the student reads in their history book they are to stop and record four things. Is this step in addition to outlining the chapters or does it replace outlining? I have been listening to Susan's writing lectures and she mentions that highschoolers are outlining so I am a bit confused.

 

Thanks!

 

Hi Jean, I think it replaces "outlining a history book" that you see in logic stage. I think it's because by high school, kids are outlining other things like rhetoric books (if using SWB's writing plan), and are creating their own outlines for persuasive papers. Plus, high school history books are denser than middle grade ones. It would be a ton of work to outline, say, SWB's adult history series. My impression is that the "four things" is just a simple way (an extremely simple outline/narration of an entire chapter?) of absorbing the history content, and having something to choose further reading from.

 

Outlining goes from being something to learn and practice on a history book (or whatever else) in middle grades, to being something to *use* to absorb content from any other book you want (history, rhetoric, science, whatever of interest), or to *use* to structure an original essay.

[Quiver0f10]

Hi Jean, I think it replaces "outlining a history book" that you see in logic stage. I think it's because by high school, kids are outlining other things like rhetoric books (if using SWB's writing plan), and are creating their own outlines for persuasive papers. Plus, high school history books are denser than middle grade ones. It would be a ton of work to outline, say, SWB's adult history series. My impression is that the "four things" is just a simple way (an extremely simple outline/narration of an entire chapter?) of absorbing the history content, and having something to choose further reading from.

 

Outlining goes from being something to learn and practice on a history book (or whatever else) in middle grades, to being something to *use* to absorb content from any other book you want (history, rhetoric, science, whatever of interest), or to *use* to structure an original essay.

 

I agree. I was trying to imagine my Dd outlining a book like Susan's and don't think it would work very well. I wonder if she chose an additional topic to explore and used an encyclopedia for research and outlined/summarized from that?

Edited May 23, 2010 by Quiver0f10

[Colleen in NS]

I wonder if she chose an additional topic to explore and used an encyclopedia for research and outlined/summarized from that?

 

I haven't done high school history yet, but I would imagine you could structure it several ways, depending on what your goals are. If dd is working on getting proficient at outlining/summarizing, then this sounds to me like a great plan. You can always restructure her history study (like letting persuasive papers replace outlining/summarizing-from-encyclopedia/lib.books) after you feel she is proficient at those skills. But she could still read SWB's history books, write down those four items after each chapter (I might have my kids do that every five or so chapters - it's still a lot! :D), and read encyclopedia articles/lib. books all along the way. It would just be her writing skills that evolve during all that reading.

 

See, this is why I keep blabbing on the boards about SWB's writing audios. :D A person can keep progressing with whatever reading/notetaking (those four items, or the "list of facts" in logic stage history new WTM)/extra reading), and just switch writing skills as the previous ones become ingrained.

[Quiver0f10]

Thanks again Colleen! I think I need to relax a bit and just trust that SWB's plan works. I love the simplicity of it :)

[Colleen in NS]

Hey, cool. I just figured out that I can go to another thread, select posts there, and come back to this one and quote them here! When I clicked "post reply" on this thread and the reply page came up, I clicked on the bit that says something about "you have selected posts from another thread to quote - quote them here?" The following quote is from this thread:

 

With the younger stages the history spine sends you off to study related literature. With the rhetoric stage, the Great Books send you off to study the related history.

 

This person was talking about the 2nd WTM edition. I think what you are seeing in your 3rd edition, Jean, is the separation of these two ideas - you are studying both history AND Great Books, but separately. And, you know, it's just another structure. You can structure them however you want - you can study them separately, you can let history drive your GB study, or you can let your GB study drive your history. Whichever you choose, you just fit the dd-appropriate writing skills in there somewhere. You can also opt out of writing those "four items" if it takes too much time for dd, or you could have her do them for every few chapters instead of every chapter...to me, the important thing is the reading, talking, and practicing writing skills.

 

Here, for logic stage, I have my ds write out a "list of facts" every week for a page spread in KF. (I equate this list to the "four things" that you mentioned - it's a bare bones outline of all of history) But I don't have ten kids to manage, so it's easy for me to keep track of him doing it. But I also don't consider it essential to him - it's sort of an "extra."

 

So, I think you can have fun planning out how she will do her history. As for SWB's plan, there is a thread or two going about that on the K-8 board, and I think I saw the same one on the high school board - JennW in SoCal replied to both about how SWB's plan has worked for her high schoolers. Her posts about the WTM writing plan are always encouraging for me to read, because she has already BTDT.