Addiebelle
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Posts posted by Addiebelle
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Deep breath here. I'm not a psych, and I always get into trouble when I say things that to me are probably right but aren't. Was this a ps eval or private?
If this was a ps eval, you have the legal right to dispute and request an IEE. They should have done a CTOPP, language testing, etc. This is absurd.
This was a private eval, however the psych is an NCSP (nationally certified school psychologist)
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One of the DSM gurus can speak here, but I think you might want to check your report and see what DSM codes he used. Dyslexia is a narrow term and not in the DSM. The larger umbrella term is SLD Reading, and my guess is your reading fluency issue falls under that.
Also, there ought to be some very specific components with that you could target, like RAN/RAS and of course fluency. Your CTOPP scores will have RAN/RAS subscores. It should be in your report. I haven't seen AAR, but you ought to be able to do fluency drills. There's tons of material to drill for fluency in Barton. Again, Barton is meant for SLD reading. It also seems to me that someone with fluency issues and an SLD would benefit from controlled readers.
I am looking of my report, and my child was given the following tests: Differential Ability Scales, Woodcock Johnson Tests of Achievement, and Behavior Assessment for Children.I asked about the CTOPP, but was told that the tests that my daughter was given would be able to assess the same things.
The psych told me to use a curriculum that has a fluency component, and gave me a list of public school curricula: Read Naturally, Corrective Reading Level A, Read Well, and Voyager Universal Literacy systems. Psych said we could continue to use AAR, and focus on fluency, which we have been doing. We have been using the controlled readers within AAR, however DD will sometimes pick out a book to read. After reading your response, I am thinking maybe our psych did not give my DD the appropriate tests. I am also thinking Barton might be a better fit for us.
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Hello All,
I have posted before and my 8 year DD is a struggling reader. We had an eval and the psych stated she is not dyslexic, but has a reading fluency disability. We have been using AAR and she is almost done with level 2. Her reading has improved, and she is very good at decoding words. She is a slow reader, so in addition to AAR, (thanks to recommendations here) we have been working on fluency by drilling AAR phrases and the fry instant phrases. She is showing progress, slowly, but still progressing. I feel like we are doing pretty well, but I am a bit discouraged because today during read aloud time, her almost six year old sister wanted to try to read the chapter book I am currently reading aloud to them. I of course didn’t discourage younger DD, so younger DD started to read, only to be interrupted by a huge outcry from DD8. DD8 started carrying on and crying and yelling at her sister to stop reading. DD8 didn’t explain why she was yelling at her sister, but to me it was obvious. She did not like the fact that DD5 was successfully reading a chapter book, something DD8 is unable to do. Older daughter has made a few comments about DD5’s ability to read with ease, but never an outburst like today. Later, DD8 picked out a book to read to me, Dr. Seuss’s “One Fish, Two Fish†and that discouraged me even more. She knew every word in that book, but it was slow, very slow, with a few mistakes. I am not sure what I was expecting, or what I am even asking, but should I continue to do what I am doing? My older daughter is making what I think is pretty good progress, but then I have moments of doubts like I have today. Do I change older DD's curriculum? Do I change younger DD's curriculum? I have thought about changing DD5’s reading curriculum so their levels in ability are not so obvious, but I think it is already obvious by the sheer fact that my younger DD can just pick up a book and start reading, something my older DD would never do. I guess I am asking, should I keep doing what I am doing? and Is there anything I should do about my younger DD? I or course don’t want to discourage my 5 year old from reading. Any input is much appreciated. Thanks for listening :)
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My 5 year old (she will be six in 2 months) is ready to begin AAR 2, but I would like to do a different reading curriculum with her. I love AAR, but my Dd8 is a struggling reader and is currently at the same level. Dd8 is making comments about how Dd5 knows more and is smarter than her. The only thing I can think of is changing Dd5's reading curriculum so the fact that they are on the same level isn't so apparent. Am I right in thinking this or is there another solution? If so, can someone suggest a reading curriculum for my younger Dd? I don't want to break the bank, but I am used to the scriptedness and thoroughness of AAR.
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Yeah, if you haven't drilled the phrases and sentences to fluency, I would start there. And ditto Lecka's take that those are ps programs. Look over the books she listed. You can see them on amazon. I've looked at them in the past. Some of the ps approach to fluency is sort of hocus pocus. Me, I'm real concrete: master the task, get the skill, done. They make it sound like voodoo.
To apply to NLS (which we did, love, adore), you need the diagnosis of print disability and you need to take it to your ped to get it signed. So I guess at a bare minimum you'd like to see your paperwork saying SLD Reading to be able to get that moving forward.
I said audiobooks and you said immersion reading. They're both good. Audiobooks are a snap. Any device you have, any at all, can play free audiobooks you download from the library. I would do this 1-2 hours a day, without fail, because you want to keep her language acquisition moving forward. Part of the reason dyslexics struggle is because they aren't getting the same language input (through reading) as their peers. So audiobooks, just playing them several hours a day, can be a STRONG tool to cover for that.
Immersion reading is what you mentioned. That's the next step, where you have the audiobook and ebook (text) and the two sync. You can do this with amazon/audible pairs that are marked with Whispersync. You can do that on a kindle device, android tablet using the kindle app, etc. I haven't checked to see if the kindle app on ipad can do immersion reading. Amazon was just snarky slow about getting that pushed over.
Reality is, she's probably not ready for immersion reading. I mean, see, but she's probably not ready. I would do audiobooks alone several hours a day, work on her RAN/RAS, do the fluency drills for phrases and sentences (going all the way back to AAR1 and moving forward), get her eyes checked, and then when she's ready offer her the immersion reading. When I tried it on my ds a while back, he wasn't ready. It's just actually kinda hard, kwim? The other things are easier. That way she can start immersion reading when she's ready. I would definitely do *paired* reading. That means you read a sentence, she reads a sentence. Or you can alternate paragraphs, whatever.
I think the robot reading is just a stage. She's doing mental calculus, and she can't handle adding the good prosody on top. It will come with time. Just keep working on it. Definitely, definitely, definitely drill your AAR stuff at the phrase and sentence level till it's fluent.
Honestly, you probably have a number of months yet before you get enough done to get the robot thing to chill. Don't freak out. Just do the things you're supposed to do, the things you're being told her, and it will come together. You'll see gradual improvement and know you're on the right track. No, I don't think I'd do Barton IF she's progressing properly. If she's behind for IQ or struggling or frustrated, I would move over. I use Barton with my ds. Some people think it's overkill, but it's a very thorough tool. He couldn't learn from AAR. We tried AAR pre, and there were things I LOVED about it. Like I'm a real fan of it, kwim? But it doesn't change the reality that he needed a lot smaller steps to be able to learn to read. He needed Barton. So if AAR is working, you're fine. You just weren't maxing out the potential of the program, because you didn't know she had these gaps. Now you know. But if she's frustrated and not moving forward, sure make a change. Otherwise, use it harder. :)
Thank you! This is all so very helpful!
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http://psychcentral.com/disorders/specific-learning-disorder/
I'm confused. Did the psych diagnose an SLD for Reading? If so, I would have him sign applications for the NLS/BARD and Bookshare because those services are free. I have never applied to NLS/BARD so I can't speak specifically about that service; however, DS uses texts from Bookshare every school day. He reads and listens to books at once using Immersion technology with the VoiceDream app. Son also uses Immersion tech on his Android Kindle app with Audible and Kindle books.
To address the fluency issues, l found the following link:
http://www.ldonline.org/spearswerling/Preventing_and_Remediating_Difficulties_with_Reading_Fluency
The comprehension fluency materials that the psych mentioned are standard public school materials. Before purchasing new product, I would suggest you sit down with a highly experienced O-G tutor and get recommendations from her. Forum member ElizabethB may have specific suggestions and free information posted on her website about improving fluency.
The psych report states: Diagnostic Impression: Learning Disability in the area of reading fluency. So I am guessing that means yes to the diagnosis of an SLD for reading. Thanks for the recs on NLS and Bookshare, I was not aware of these resources, and will ask psych if she can sign off on those.
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When will you get your report? It's probably going to have more recommendations written out. Just me, but I would be looking at the RAN/RAS scores and processing speed. RAN/RAS is easily improved and it can help the fluency. Have you done any actual fluency drills with your AAR?
The psych provided me with an unedited copy of the report, and will email me a fully edited report in a week. The report gives recommendations for reading programs that are known to have a strong fluency component. These programs are: Read Naturally, Corrective Reading Level A, Read Well, and Voyager Universal Literacy Systems. I haven't heard of any of these reading programs, and frankly I don't want to buy yet another reading program, unless I can be certain it would benefit her. Other recommendations include doing more of what we have already been doing.
AAR has fluency sheets, but I don't know if I would call them drills. The phrases/words are read and that's about it.
I'm all for checking eyes with a developmental optometrist. There's sort of turf war and tiffs between devel. optom and opthaml, and they really are different.
I will look into this. I should mention that the opthalmologist who examined my daughter is her grandfather/my father in law. You are right about the turf wars, as I am pretty sure he is against vision therapy. This will be a tough one to convince my DH of as he highly respects his father's professional opinion. I will do my best :)
What is the psych saying to do about the anxiety? Did they also diagnose ADHD or anything?
Psych did not diagnose her with ADHD or with anything related to the anxiety. And are they suggesting any further evals or therapies? Psych recommended we work with her on anxiety first, and if the problem persists, psych suggests psychotherapy
Does she listen to a lot of audiobooks?
Yes. Psych also mentioned having DD read along with the audiobook. Sounds labor intensive, but I am willing to do it if it will help.
Barton has fluency and prosody drills built into the materials. You can do something similar with your AAR. I took my Barton words, phrases, and sentences (this took some time!) and typed them into Quizlet. You probably have the words on flashcards, yes? But have you drilled the phrases and sentences? I'm assuming AAR has them, haven't seen it. So put them into Quizlet, starting all the way back at the beginning, and drill them. Say them as you want her to say them (proper intonation) and have her repeat.
AAR has fluency sheets that contain words and phrases. Words are on flashcards, but phrases are not. I have never thought of drilling phrases. Thanks for the suggestion. I will definitely try that. Maybe I should get Barton?
How is her prosody in conversation? Her prosody is great in conversation. She is very expressive and animated and has great verbal skills, which is why I am suprosed she reads like a robot. LOL
Thank you for your suggestions!
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Have you already ruled out developmental vision issues with a COVD optometrist?
No, I haven't. One reason I haven't done that yet, is that my daughter recently had her eyes checked by an opthalmologist and everything was showing as normal. I am guessing I have to specifically go to a COVD optometrist? What would I be testing her for? Tracking issues?
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Hi all,
I had my DD7 (second grade) tested for dyslexia and just had a meeting with the psych yesterday. Turns out she is not dyslexic. Psych did comment that her scores in reading fluency indicate that she is well below grade level in that area. Psych said that DD has good phonological awareness, is able to decode words well, and does better when reading words in isolation. This reaffirmed what I have already been seeing at home. I think because we have been using good phonics programs (AAR, I See Sam books, ETC) she is good at decoding words. When reading sentences however, she is painfully slow, ignores punctuation, and reads like a robot. She.... reads.... so.... slow...., it does try on my patience at times. It such a stark difference to my DD5 who already reads with expression. Anyway, psych told me that DD's lack of fluency is more than likely due to her anxiousness. My daughter is an anxious kid, she's a perfectionist, and gets easily upset when she makes a mistake. I am not thoroughly convinced that this is why she is not fluent though, but that was the reason I was given. At this point I don't really care about the reason, I just would like her to become more fluent. Psych diagnosed her with a reading fluency disability, which will give my daughter extra time on standardized tests. The homeschool umbrella we are in requires standardized testing in 3rd grade, so I am grateful for the extra time.
My questions are: I have never heard of a reading fluency disability, is this really a thing? Have you ever heard of someone not being fluent due to anxiety? And really my most important question: What can I do to help my daughter become more fluent? Psych suggested timed readings and re-readings (we have done re-readings, but nothing timed) and lots of read alouds and audiobooks (we already do that a ton). Anything else I need to be doing?
Thanks for reading my ramblings and thanks for your help!
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Thank you so much, very helpful! Wish me luck tonight! :)
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Hi all,
Thank you to everyone who has been so helpful in answering my questions in the past. My DD7 is going to a neuropsych tomorrow to be tested. My husband and I had an initial meeting with the psych a couple weeks ago and it went well. I didn't think she would be tested for awhile since the psych said she was backed up, but we found out the psych had a cancellation and is able to fit us in tomorrow. My question is, I haven't discussed any of this with my DD and we will have to tell her tonight that she will be doing this tomorrow. She is only 7, and doesn't know what dyslexia is, but she is fully aware of her reading troubles. We haven't talked about it lately, since we've taken a break from school for the summer, so I guess I am just not sure how to broach the subject. I feel like if I tell her she's being tested, she might be nervous. Does anyone have any words of advice about the best way to explain this to her? Thank you!
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Thank you! I have a good set of questions to bring now. I am hoping the psych is homeschool friendly, but I am not sure. I am trying to prepare for anything and everything. Thanks for your advice!
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Hello all,
You have all been so helpful in the past and I wanted to get your opinion on this. My DH and I are meeting with a psychologist tomorrow for an initial meeting to discuss my 7 year old daughter's reading difficulties. The psych meets with parents first before doing any initial testing with the child. I have already filled out a bunch of forms the psych sent us regarding my daughter's development, milestones, and difficulties, to bring to the meeting.
To back up a bit, I decided to pursue this because my dd has had a difficult time learning to read. I have posted before, but for those of you who do not know, my dd confuses b and d, has slow, choppy reading, drops suffixes (reading "run" instead or "running), and incorrectly reads words I think she should already know. Example: the other day she read the word "bag" as "baj" (with a soft g). All this to say that we are having our initial meeting tomorrow with the psych, and I wanted to know what questions should I ask? Anything I should be sure to tell psychologist that I may not be thinking about? Any other tips to prepare for the meeting?
Thanks for your help!
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Yes, do evals. You are going to learn more in those evals than just a dyslexia label. It's definitely not too early! If you're school is waiting till 3rd grade, they're not following best practice. Current recommendation is that ALL kids be screened before going into 1st. They want it caught that early!!
Fwiw, $1300 for a neuropsych eval is a bargain. Do it. While you're waiting to get in, you can do the Barton pretest and see what the results are. How is her math going?
Yes, I think I will try my best to get the evals done. I am investigating whether or not our insurance might be able to cover some of it. Her math is going well. Her teacher at co-op was initially concerned about her math because they give them math worksheets, and DD was getting lots of problems wrong. We came to find out that they don't read the directions to the kids. When we read the directions, she gets every problem right. She is also good at word problems, but we have to read them to her. As long as she knows what she's supposed to do in math, she does well.
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Thank you all for the advice. It has been very helpful and I truly appreciate it! My DH has always suspected that he is mildly dyslexic (no official diagnosis) because he has always had problems with spelling and reading. When I spell out loud or give him a phone number I have to go really slow. DH's brother however has been officially diagnosed as profoundly dyslexic, so there is a family history. Unfortunately the public school won't test students until third grade, and my daughter is entering 2nd. I got a recommendation for a neuropsych which will cost about $1300. DH balked at the cost and thinks we should just get Barton since "we already know" she has a problem. It's better to get a diagnosis before Barton, right, not the other way around?
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Thank you for your insight, I will start researching more. We currently use ETC, I See Sam and Level 1 Easy readers from the library. We also completed All About Reading 1 last year. I decided not to continue with AAR 2 because at the time she wasn't ready for it (the beginning of the school year). I think she is ready for AAR 2 now but I am not that excited about using the program again. We have used the I See Sam Books, and she is on the fourth set of books, but she reads them slowly and with some mistakes. She was discouraged today because my younger, just turned 5 year old saw what my 7 year old was reading, and said "I can read that!" and she did. My 7 year old then told me she hates reading and feels dumb ;(
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Hello all
I have a 7 year old daughter who struggles with reading. She reads very slowly and makes what appears to be "careless" mistakes. I have always thought that maybe she is just slow in reading, and I keep waiting for it to click with her, but it’s not. I am wondering if she might either have dyslexia or some other type of learning disability. She still reverses b and d, she does not read fluently (choppy and slow) and some examples of mistakes are dropping suffixes, or taking a guess based on the first few letters of a word (examples, reading the word as "play" instead of "playing" or reading "has" as "had" or “run†instead of “ranâ€) I have been hesitant about testing because I feel she is still on the young side of reading, and I feel like she has improved since the beginning of the school year. I have come to the realization however, that I would rather know now, if possible, so I can be better equipped in helping her with any disability she may have. She is starting to say things like “I am dumb†and is very discouraged when it comes to reading. It breaks my heart that she feels this way at such a young age. Her younger sibling is 5 and is close to reading on the same level as her, which has been another blow to her self-esteem. Dyslexia runs on my husband's side of the family so I was thinking about getting her tested for that, but honestly do not know where to begin. She just turned 7 in February so is it too early to do this type of testing? Any insight is much appreciated!
Thank you so much! -
No, I don't think they are too young! My kids are 7 and 5 and they love it! They are so sad we finished. Hoping to find another good series!I can't help but I'm so glad to read this! I've been wanting to buy these for my kids but my boys are 6 and 8. Do you think they're too young for the content?
Homeschooling mama of 4... Preschool 3, preschool 4, 1st, and 2nd:)
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What other read alouds would you recommend? We just finished the last book of the series, and my kids found it absolutely riveting. Any other series/books/authors that are similar?
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Thank you for your responses. I think I may break out those fluency sheets again as suggested. Thank you Merry for the word guessing article. Glad to hear that I am not alone in this boat!
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My 6.5 DD guesses a lot of words when she is reading. We began with AAR 1 which worked well at first but then we had a lot of crying and whining. I thought maybe it was getting a little too difficult for her so we switched to I See Sam Books. We progressed through the first 2 sets with ease, and it seemed she was gaining fluency. As we have moved on to the 3rd set of books, it seems the guessing has become more and more frequent. me mistakes she makes are confusing "set and sit" "we and will" "the and that", "the and them" "on and not", and a host of other words. Whenever I tell her to look at the sounds and look more carefully at the word she gets it right. I keep telling myself she is really young and not to worry too much about this, but is this a problem or just an age thing? Do I back off or go down a level? I appreciate any help!
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Great deal! Thank you!
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thanks for sharing. I'm still trying to understand the "mentor" aspect of the program and how that will work out with homeschoolers and cover schools.. i guess I have a little bit of time to figure that out as my next child is going into 10th, not 12th this year..
I work at a TN community college, and the way that it has worked in the past (there was a similar program already in place in my part of the state) the mandatory meetings were held at local high schools, with the mentors attending those meetings. The students and mentors would exchange emails and texts and continue communication throughout the year. I imagine that homeschoolers would also go to the meetings at the local high school and meet their mentors at the time. We have not been made aware of how it will work for the homeschool community, but I know that is how it was done under the previous program.
People around here are very excited about the program. I think it will really open doors for those who otherwise would not be able to afford college.
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My 5 and half year old daughter really enjoys the All About Reading readers. You might want to look at purchasing the readers if you don't want to invest in a whole new program. Also, my daughter was the same as your son, whining at reading lessons. We took a month off and now she enjoys it a whole lot more. Sometimes they only need a short time to be away from it in order to be ready to delve in again.
Struggling reader, jealous of younger sibling, what do I do?
in The Learning Challenges Board
Posted · Edited by Addiebelle
I was told that the tests she was given ( I am assuming the DAS) did test rapid naming, but I don't see a specific score for that. I have scores for a verbal and non verbal reasoning cluster,and scores for working memory processing speed. DD was given a phonological processing subtest and I have scores from that as well.
The report also states that DD's phonological processing speed is average and there is nothing to suggest that DD's difficulties have to do with phonological awareness. There is a significant difference between her DAS verbal score and her Woodcock-Johnson reading rate score, which is why psych concluded DD to have a reading fluency disability.
Should she have been given other tests? I may decide to give Barton a try since it seems to have a stronger fluency component, and it seems to be what she needs.