Beansmom2
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Posts posted by Beansmom2
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Oh I agree the 2Es don't do well on the COGAT...I have one of those:001_smile:. This child however is not 2E.
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Wondering if anyone has any experience with this. My daughter must score in the 98% in 2 categories (COGATS) to qualify for an advanced learning program. She also must score in 95% or above on ITBS in reading and math (has 99% in both). In our old school system she only needed 1 98% on cogats. She is now entering grade 7. Her last COGATs were from 3rd grade. Her composites (1st and 2nd) historically have been 98%. The schools here aren't great except for this program. Now I am sweating out the wait. Does anyone have any info? Have your childs scores increased over time?:confused:
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We have been very open and honest. When I first told my daughter about her learning disabilities she was relieved. We spent a lot of time talking about famous people who have similar disabilities. We even did a research project on it. When she refers to herself as different I tell her she is exceptional and unique. She is so convinced her way of thinking is fantastic many of her friends now wish they also had dyslexia and adhd. I think being honest helped her feel proud of who she is and what she has accomplished despite the daily struggle.
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Please, someone give me some ideas!
My ds9 with ADD and dyslexia who has an almost eidetic memory cannot memorize his math facts. He knows a Shaksperean sonnet after hearing it once or twice and has extensive discussions about nuclear fission and black holes, but he has to count on his fingers with 4+3 or 9-5. He is currently in SM 4A. For a long time I slowed him down trying to get the math facts in him. A couple of months ago, I gave up and let him move forward with concepts and I allow him to use a multiplication chart for math. I do make him fill out a new chart once a week. He uses his fingers for addition and subtraction. I feel like I have tried everything flash cards, flash master, wrap ups, RS math games and currently we are using the v/s cards from Diana Waring (with less than good results). I'm not looking for perfection here and I know that he will use a calculator at some point. I just can't wrap my head around where to go next. Does anyone have any thoughts on how I might help him?
Since he was 6 he has said that he wants to be a theoretical physicist or an impact physicist. I have this vision of him in a college physics lab and he's adding up his 10 facts on hs fingers!!:eek:
Yes we have same issue. Ed Pysch told us to use flash cards every night. Star with 2's (in order) and review every single night until it is commited to memory. It can take months on just one number. When 2's are mastered on to 3's. Its an ordeal but it does work.
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Personally, the DAS-II is not a test I'd choose for a 2E kiddo where you need to document an accurate ability level for entry to a gifted program, though I don't remember much about it (one of my kids was given that by special ed psych when he was very young - it yielded no useful info that I can recall, certainly not a high score). I think you'd want a WISC or an SB-5 (I'd speak with a private psych about which would be best in the particular circumstances). The WISC should be good for three years though - their excuse sounds really dumb.
Also consider the extent to which you really want this: (1) how much the gifted program will actually add the needed intellectual challenge, and (2) how much the gifted program is actually do-able for your child as far as inputs and outputs, considering your child's LDs. For my most 2E kiddo, I'd probably answer no to both, at least with regard to our district's full time gifted program (fortunately, at the moment we're having luck with a public charter montessori).
Is private testing possible?
The CogAT is notorious for being inaccurate when it comes to 2E kiddos (ask me how I know....:glare:).
My daughter wants it. Also needs to be in program to qualify for advanced content math amd science in middle schools...otherwise I wouldn't bother.
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School wants to use this test to evaluate dyslexic, dysgraphic, adhd child for gifted program. Her ITBS achievement scores were high enough but COGAT was low. Can't except her WISC or CTONI as they were done technically in 2nd grade (the last day actually). This my childs only shot at the gifted progam so I don't want to agree to the test if it is not a fair measure. Thanks.
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That's what has made this so hard. I used the tests here: http://homeschooling.gomilpitas.com/articles/060899.htm
and she tests at a 4th grade level.
First, her spelling is awful. She would memorize the words on her spelling lists (we would discuss the phonics of it), and score great on the test at the end of the week, but retained very little of it long-term. (We are using All About Spelling with her now, and hopefully that will help).
Next, I've always wondered if there was something wrong with her vision. She saw an opthamologist a little over a year ago, and tested fine in several measures (I don't remember exactly what he tested now). But when she tries to read numbers on a clock, or words on a page from a certain distance (that other people can read fine), she says she can't see it right. When she holds her reader to do a reading lesson with me, she holds it just a few inches from her face. She often loses track of where we are on the page, or goes back to the beginning of the same line instead of advancing to the next one.
When she was learning to read, she had to be heavily prodded (like prodded to the point of crying) to sound out words, and would regularly start the word then guess the ending. She often added sounds that weren't there. While she can read a lot of words just fine now, she still uses those same bad habits when she encounters words she doesn't know. I still have to prod her to sound words out, and she often chooses to guess before she will try to sound out. With the amount of focus I put on teaching her to always try to sound it out first, it doesn't make sense. Reading lessons are still a very difficult chore, even though we have moved beyond "learn-to-read" lessons.
When she completes her grammar workbook, she regularly "forgets" to read the directions before completing the task, and always prefers it if I read it to her. Social studies and science are both reading based. She is capable of decoding most of the words at the level they are printed in the books, but she would get lost in a reading assignment from those books if I had her do it herself. So I read to her, and she understands it wonderfully. Today I noticed that while she was reading a book to herself, she was moving her lips as she read.
And yet, when she was in a religious ed class last year at our church, with 20 other public schooled kids, she was one of the 2 best readers in her class. And this fall, she read the Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe to herself. Granted I don't know how well she read it (and it did take her a very long time), but she did say that it wasn't difficult, and she was able to tell me about the plot. I do believe though, that grade level performance doesn't necessarily indicate that everything is fine, because it doesn't take into account her potential (and whether she is meeting it or not), and it doesn't take into account how painstaking a process it might have been to get to that level (and that it is to continue) and the fact that she had a 1:1 ratio while being taught.
My judgement is informed or clouded (?) by my experience with her older brother, who is a reading wiz. I don't know if there is such a discrepancy between the way he learns, and the way she does because they are just different people, because he is simply more bright, or because she has a block than needs to be un-blocked. Of course, I try to compare her performance and habits to what I think is "normal" and not to him, but I don't really have much to go on in judging "normal."
Stealth Dyslexia
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He sounds a lot like my child. She has combined type ADHD and dyslexia. She's a fairly good reader and her decoding skills are good considering. (Not suggesting your child has this though just for perspective). The similarities are that she struggles with a concept then suddenly she gets it. Her progress is always like that slow then a huge jump, slow then a huge jump. This has been consistent throughout her schooling (she is in 3rd grade).
The other stuff (shower etc) is almost like describing a typical day in our house. She has low working memory. We recently tried adhd meds which made her very anxious so we discontinued for now. But we noticed her standardized test scores made a huge leap while on the meds and the "executive functioning" stuff remarkably improved. I'm not sure where we'll end up with the meds but its currently off the table until she gets a little older. Our psych has recomended trying COGMED. You may want to look that up. We may try it over the summer to see if it can help the working memory issues.
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Today I received a ltter from the dyslexia school we recently applied to. As part of the process they have a two hour evaluation/testing with each applicant. After testing they concluded her performance was higher than their typical rising 4th grader and in their opinion she does not need a full time program. They gave some helpful suggestions such as adding a writing tutor to the current schedule.
So I guess I have my answer. Thanks for listening.
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Do you have a copy of your state's gifted education law - if they have one - it's not mandated for all states to provide gifted ed and many do not have a law that directly applies. If you live in a state that does you need to get your hands on it, if you don't already. My oldest ds's COGAT scores weren't high enough since his LD's came into play on a paper/pencil test - here gifted ed doesn't begin here until 3rd grade. The school originally tried to tell me he didn't qualify - but I had already done my research and had a copy of the state law for gifted ed -- I knew that there were alternative measurements that could be used and went to bat bec a WISC or SB score is far more accurate for IQ than the COGAT. Most gifted ed in elementary is just simply enrichment and teaching of logical reasoning skills. But, if your state is like our's our ds would not have qualified for Honors coursework in middle school w/out having been in the GT program in elementary.
Is hsing an option for you? If so it sounds like you could far more address her learning strengths and weaknesses at home. While we didn't hs our oldest - our other three who are 2E are all being hsed.
I think they will accept the WISC score ultimately but she may need more than just a high score on an achievement test to qualify. She needs a high motivation and creativity score (not sure what tests they use but she bombed the Torrance in Grade 1)...and at least a 96 composite on ITBS (which she has). I believe they are waiting on the COGATs because if the scores are high enough they will wave in without other criteria. They could be very high....with my child you never know where she'll end up. We will see where it goes. But I will get her in this year that I know. I will see about the state law. Its funny it really matters to my daughter. She wants to be in the program. She knows she is smart. She knows she belongs there.
I have thought of homeschooling and looked into a few times. I always came back to the realization my child needs the structure of a traditional school. Also despite her quirkiness she is very social.
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It sounds like your daughter is 2E and at the moment is compensating very well. Whatever you decide to do regarding her school placement, you're going to want to keep remediating her reading until she is reading not just at grade level, but if at all possible, at >95th percentile (preferably the 99th) for her age.
Does the OG tutor assign homework to be done daily? If not (and perhaps even if so), it's important to have her read aloud to you daily starting with books that she reads easily and gradually progressing (over a period of years, if necessary) to more difficult material.
Also, which level ITBS did she take? Most of the 2nd grade test is read aloud by the teacher whereas the 3rd grade test is read by the student. If her reading is weak and she took the 2nd grade test, this could have an effect on her scores in the future (when she has to read it herself). The 2nd grade test is also untimed.
I also suggest that you get a 504 plan for her so that she can use a keyboard and word processor for writing assignments as well as extended time for tests.
Yes we get homework from the tutor and try to review each night. My daughter needs to be in bed by 7:30 (always so tired puts herself to bed)so sometimes it is a struggle to get it all in. We read 20 min but alternate paragraphs.
Really really good point on the ITBS. She took them Oct of this year (she is in third). My guess is they were the 2nd grade tests. I must clarify with school as that would make a huge impact on scoring. If so I will really have to pursue the 504 in elementary if that's the route we go as all advanced placement for middle school is based on grade 5 ITBS scores with no altennative testing accepted. Accomodations will be very important. Thank you so much for mentioning that.
We are waiting on results of COGATS. I'm still struggling to get her into the gifted program but making some progress with WISC scores at least I have their attention. School though is holding out for COGATS (which are not read to kids in grade 3) before they decide. The results could be very interesting.
I am so glad I found this forum.
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What were you hoping to achieve w/ the IEP? Was it to receive the O-G teaching w/in the school? Or pull out services? What do you see that the private school has that she needs? I'm not trying to be a pain here - just trying to get a basis of where you're coming from and what your expectations are?
Based upon my experiences in school they no longer qualify dc for IEP's or Spec Ed services based upon a dx of LD's unless they are performing significantly below grade level in the classroom. If she's making "C's" or above in her classroom work - regardless if she is capable of higher based upon IQ - then she probably won't qualify for IEP. Also, most are reluctant for LD's to even classify much less provide IEP's for those kiddos in early elementary (I don't agree w/ that - but that's the turn Spec Ed has taken) But, based upon a dx of LD's she would qualify for a 504 plan --- the 504 plan doesn't provide remediation type work which is what you are doing w/ the O-G tutor -- but it would provide accommodation in the classrooms if needed. Things like extended time for in-class writing assignments and exams, a scribe or computer for in-class writing, oral exams if warranted, notetakers or copies of teacher notes for her files to compare to her own notes, etc.
Our oldest went all the way through ps and was dx in first grade as gifted/LD (dyslexia/dysgraphia)/ADD-inattentive but never had an IEP - because of his giftedness he didn't fit the requirement for Spec Ed services. We too used a private O-G tutor (by the time the others came along we were hsing and I was trained in 0-G so we did everything on our own). I didn't need a 504 plan for him in elementary because I worked closely w/ the teachers and they just did what I asked. In middle school and high school we had to do a 504 plan for a couple teachers who felt it was un-fair to allow extended time, no penalty spelling errors on in-class writing assignments, etc. w/out the 504 plan in place.
In our case because of my training I wasn't worried that he didn't meet the criteria for an IEP - they would have given him one if I pushed just bec it was me -- but I saw no benefit that the school could provide through the IEP. Your case might be different.
Wow thanks for all the detailed responses. Our state will reimburse parents for the cost of educating your child if you pull them from public to do specialiazed schooling IF you have an active IEP. Our intention from the beginning was to secure the IEP for this reason...we know the school system has no orton gillingham based program...so what they'd offer through the IEP was worthless...excpet maybe for speech therapy but we didn't even get that. That's why we decided to spend the countless dollars on tutoring. We just finished an Ed pysch in May that diagnosed her with ADHD for the first time. It was missed in round 1. We had hoped this would help gain the IEP as dyslexia is not recognized as a learning disbaility in our state (all kinds of words are used like developmental and processing).
We put her in private for grade 2 because due to budget concerns the public schools were going for maximum class sizes. Becuase she is extremely sensitive to noise and any type of chaotic environment we thought the small class size would be beneficial. It turned out to be a disaster. She was socailly very unhappy and we found the private school to be very inflexible for example they played music during silent reading and you can imagine how distracting that would be to a dyslexic...they would not change their policy. There are many other examples but that one was such a thorn in my side I can't seem to let it go.
Her teacher has told me that my child is at the top of her class with the exception of reading and is actually baffled as to why we are looking at a school for dyslexia. We know our daughter is very gifted. She can take apart a television and put it back together, she wins countless art contests, her vocabulary rivals an educated adult. My worries are that she will never reach her potential and that her disabilty will keep her out of higher level classes. Already I have to fight for the gifted services even though via the WISC she is technically a genius. The biggest worry though is that things will catch up with her as school becomes more complicated and she'll begin to slide...and then all the things that come with it...low self esteem etc. She is extremely sensitive.....low self esteem would be a recipe for disaster down the road.
I really appreciate your suggestions of a 504. Definitely something to consider and pursue.
Aagain thanks to everyone who replied. This has been incredibly helpful.
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Hello all. Very glad to find this board. Am struggling with decisions for my 3rd grade dyslexic daughter (dyslexia, dysgraphia and ADHD).
Profile: Non verbal WISC IQ puts her in 99% for same aged peers.
In third grade performs way above average in math and science. (math facts are a bit of an issue though..higher order stuff is very strong). Spelling and writing are well below expectations. She reads on or just below grade level. We have never been able to get her an IEP...but have tried since kindergarten. She spent last year at a private school as we thought a smaller classroom would be a better fit but she was very unhappy and wanted to return to her neighborhood school. We switched her back this year. We use an orton gillingham tutor twice a week and work on enrichment at home.
After getting turned down for an IEP again, we started to look at schools for dyslexia for next year. Found one that is very reputable. We had concluded this would be a good thing and are hoping they have a spot for her. The school is very expensive. It will be painful financially for us but we are willing to make the sacrifice if it is the right choice. We were pretty decided Until.....
Most recent development: We recieved her ITBS scores and she has a composite score in the 96%. Most of her scores were in the mid nineties (math and reference skills the highest) with science coming in at 87%.
Now we are rethinking our decision to send her to a school for dyslexia. She is content at her public school. She is holding her own academically. She is a bit quirky but has an established group of friends. Tutoring seems to helping some though I have some concerns about her writing. Its pretty bad.
My issue is I don't want to look back in 5 years and realize I made the wrong choice. I want to do the best thing for my child.
Can anyone provide any insight? Sorry for the long post.
Strange "gifts" your child has
in Accelerated Learner Board
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One thing about my child...we took our kids to a Catholic church to check it out for joining (I was raised Catholic). There are plenty of rote memorized prayer (and if you are Catholic you'll know just what I am talking about). Amazingly on our second visit my four year old (at the time) knew the words to every single prayer after only hearing them once. I was astonished. Some might say "miracle" but thats just my child! Also she has an uncanny adult sense of perception..can read people and situations with extreme clarity...its scary.