[Cub Scouts vs. the nonreligious family]

I have no problem with Scouts Canada as long as they receive no special treatment from the government.

 

I do have a problem with BSA since it states:

The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognising an obligation to God.

 

I have problems with a organization that is allowed to teach that a person can not grow into "the best kind of citizen" without recognizing a obligation to god. I think that a organzation that believes in such a thing should not be allowed to operate and teach millions of children.

 

Yes I would feel the same with if a organization was trying to teach the opposite.

 

So almost all churches and many Christian private schools would be closed? :001_smile:

[everyone should homeschool?]

I think, if you wanted to HS, almost anyone can. I know a single Mom who homeschools her children. She works a regular job and they just don't have a M - F 9 - noon, 2 - 4 schedule. They are unique. She wanted it for her family, so she did it.

 

I know people who do it fully for free. So $$ wasn't an issue for them and their kids are getting an incredible education.

 

I think if you want to, you can (barring any health reasons, etc). I think most people could by that definition.

 

I think more people should than do. And I will leave it at that.

[Can you be a Christian and still]

Of course, many I have heard say marriage isn't a right and they can get married, just not to someone of the same sex. I think many wonder where it ends with redefinition. Will plural marriages become legal? They should if same-sex marriage is allowed. There would be no reason not to allow it, right? I am not saying I use those statements, I haven't before. But I have heard them more than once.

[legal trouble related to homeschooling?]

I would screen shot what she said, document what's happened in your family, and file it away just in case. Then, I would get this woman 100% out of your life. I would unfriend AND block her on FB so she can't even PM you or see anything you have on your page. I would change your number if you can block her number. I would even ask your very close family members, if they don't want to unfriend her, to not say one single word about your family to her. Not even, "they are doing great". No news is good news.

 

I would get the house in order. I see a few people have made some awesome suggestions there. I haven't read everything yet. But know that my husband has walked into some HORRIBLE houses and CPS hasn't touched the kids, not even a threat of it. So don't kill yourself to the point of exhausting yourself.

 

No, you don't have to let them in, not even the cops. My husband is a cop and, unless he has immediate probable cause (he hears a woman screaming as she's being beaten, he sees a very, very neglected child in his sight, etc, he sees drugs being used, and so on) he can't make entry unless it's either given to him by the home owner or by a search warrant. Same goes for CPS. But, know that once you let them in, your right to illegal search and seizure flies out the window. So, you can't get upset later about that. Choose wisely.

 

And no, it doesn't make you look guilty to say no to a request for entry. My husband, unless you are someone really bad, normally just goes on his merry way. Oh, CPS might threaten you with "well, I will just get a search warrant" to which you nicely smile and calmly say, "OK, thank you, that would be appreciated before entering our home" and then you immediately call your attorney. Even if CPS and a cop show up you don't have to let them enter without a warrant.

 

I would relax. She's probably blowing smoke and doesn't mean it, just wants to be a mean-hearted person, attempting to hurt another person with her words.

[I was leading a charmed homeschool life, until..."quizzing!"]

If I say something ditzy my dh will quip something like, "and she's homeschooling our children." I don't find it very funny. :glare: Homeschooling moms and homeschooled children are not super genius's. We're normal people, not know-it-alls. Sheesh!

 

Just like public school kids and teachers. :tongue_smilie:

[Kindle 3G owners]

Not horrible, not a laptop. Slower than my regular internet, but decent. There, how's that for a blase answer? HEheh

[church wwyd?]

Leave hubby at home. If he doesn't want to go, no reason to bother him about it. Get up, get the kids ready, go. I wouldn't leave the kids home if possible. It will help your daughter get used to church if she goes each week.

 

I have two children with Autism. I know how hard it was for them, is for them. We worked long and hard to get them to this point, and they aren't like other kids in church. But, our church loves them how they are and I have relaxed over the last 3 years. Does he have a therapist? If so, I would confer with them about ideas. You aren't the only ASD family to walk through this one. We have walked through it, and still are. It used to be my son couldn't stand anyone near him during worship. So, we sat in the back, as close to the back door as possible, and not anywhere near another person. I brought ear phones for him (yes, we got stares at our old church, who cares). I brought some fidgets for him. It's taken a lot of therapy, working with them at home, and flat out PRAYERS. But they are getting better.

[Anyone figure out the holes in shirts mystery? I'm going kookoo!]

I agree with the cheap fabric idea. I think it's just cheaply made, even nice brands. So these things happen. When we were kids I don't remember things wearing out like they do now. Even feeling the denim from then (My Mom has a lot of our clothes from when we were kids) and the cotton shirts from then, they feel much thinner now. You should feel the yummy cotton t-shirts my brother had as a child. They are so thick and rich and my Mom did NOT buy expensive clothing back then.

[Can you be a Christian and still]

I've done none of that. You hold a different view from mine that I'm challenging, that's all. I don't expect to change your mind. I do hope to offer you some food for thought that might help you come to a better understanding of my position and I'm hoping to gain the same form you as well. All the best discussions I've been involved with have been with folks I never came to an agreement with but did come to gain an understanding from or perhaps recognize some common ground. You can't get to that if you think the person you're talking with is dumb. I don't think you're dumb.

 

I didn't word myself well. I am sorry. I should have said "general you" after that. I am sorry if you thought I was attacking that you had done that. Please forgive my very bad wording.

[I was leading a charmed homeschool life, until..."quizzing!"]

I had a woman do this to my kids. I looked at her and said, "do I get to quiz you on things I think you should know when you are done". She smiled, laughed, and stopped. I don't know if she was offended, but I know I was. Does she quiz public schoolers when they come in? Nope, I know she doesn't because I have been in there when public school kids are present.

 

I hate that. I just hate it. It's like they are trying to prove we are messing up our kids.

[Latest MIL Plot]

I agree. My mom is a labor and delivery nurse and says she feels she should add "personal body guard" to that as well. The rule is, tell the nurse who's allowed in and they will keep everyone else out. They are very diplomatic about it, they are good at it. They don't say "you aren't wanted". They have a soft line they give those who aren't wanted in the room.

 

It must work as my Mom has only had to call security 3 - 4 times in her 27 years of nursing in labor and delivery. She gladly called and had that person removed, just saying it's very rare.

[removing teeth for braces]

I was 10 when I got braces. I had far too many teeth for my small mouth. They pulled 5 permanent teeth (yes, I did say 5, and that's not my widsom teeth). Now I wonder where those 5 teeth would have fit. Hehehe. I have no issues chewing. I would, if she's concerned about it, get a second opinion. If there are too many teeth, there are too many teeth. But some doctors do things just because they always do it, even if it's not right for the patient's situation.

[When you post on a message board, do you write]

I think I write and speak the same way. The problem often comes in tone that's impossible to be understood most time. I speak direct and many online think I am angry or have a rude tone. If they were sitting here watching me type or hearing these things in person they would hear a calm, relaxed, "everything is fine" tone. But I hate putting smilies on every single post to indicate that feeling.

[Can you be a Christian and still]

Listen, I will not go on and on and on in these circles. You vote how you want (you are all voting your beliefs, so ironic that you don't want me to vote mine) and I will vote how I want. I don't ask why you vote a certain way. I view it as valid and important to you. I ask the same. You can roll your eyes, think I am dumb, think I am hateful, but you don't know me. You know some black words on a screen. You may or may not know God (I don't know each of you and your personal choice in that area). We are different. There you go.

 

You won't make me change my mind. I will always put God first in all things. That shouldn't make anyone angry, upset, or annoyed. If you seek tolerance, practice it first. But, honestly, just like you, I am not tolerant of all behaviors. I love God. I love people. I love those whom many of you would actually say you hated. I put God's ideals above man's. It's just a simple way of life for me and my family. You choose your lifestyle, I choose mine. But to ask a person to not vote their tried and true beliefs that have taken them a life time to develop and come to is wrong, unless you are willing to pull the right to vote from every American out there and allow free reign on all issues (which would actually be you exercising your beliefs there as well). Beliefs are a part of us and cannot be seperated from our person.

 

I think we have exhausted that topic. So, if something new pops up, I will engage it. Otherwise, this topic has been very fun. It's the nicest of all threads I have ever seen on the topic on the various boards I have been on since the creation of the internet.

[Can you be a Christian and still]

I'm not sure it's consistent at all. We were given free will. There was never a point in the OT when God ruled all people of Earth or even demanded that he should. In the NT it's made very clear to, "give back to Caesar what is Caesar’s, and to God what is God’s." There's a clear seperation between the material demands of state and the demands of religion.

 

God is the creator, yes but He has given us the freedom to recognize, embrace and follow the demands that recognition imposes. We are free not to. God already reigns, he does not need humans coming in between Him and His world by setting up very human Christian regimes.

 

You are right. You are free not to. Just like I am free TO recognize it. Freedom. Thanks for proving my point. My freedom to recognize God's way is valid, important, and what I will use until my last dying breath. Just like some will not to their last dying breath. And yes, God started out with ruling the whole world. We just decided we didn't want that perfection.

[Can you be a Christian and still]

If sharia law is put into effect, my family will make decisions at that point. We will have to protect our children from being murdered. I will honor the laws of the land while putting God's above it. Not scared of what if type questions. God's law above man's at all times.

 

Listen, you guys want to allow homosexuals to marry, fine. Vote for it. Speak out on it. No reason to bring all these things out on what if's to someone that doesn't agree. You will win eventually. I whole heartedly believe that. I believe homosexuals will be allowed to marry in every state in our nation. I also believe there will come a whole host of new hate and new laws against those who refuse to do the actual ceremony or other parts of the wedding. I think the tide will turn eventually. I am not worried about it. I put my comfort in God and do what He commands, not really worrying about what happens tomorrow.

[Can you be a Christian and still]

Can I assume that you are also in favor of laws outlawing divorce, requiring that a rapist marry his victim, imposing the death penalty on women who are raped within the boundaries of a city, and requiring the death penalty for children who repeatedly disobey their parents?

 

No?

 

How about a law that requires complete and utter sharing of material goods, such that no one has more or better things than anyone else? Because I'm thinking that would be a great way to prevent covetousness, which is not only sinful but one of the Ten Commandments.

 

I'm guessing that somehow none of that is what you "believe God feels is right." That works out awesomely for you, doesn't it?

 

I understand the levitical laws and such you are trying to trap me with. Read one of my first responses on here. I don't address those things which attempt to make a person look stupid. If you have an issue with Jesus fulfilling the law, that's not my issue.

[Restrictions on running on school parking lots?]

Schools are becoming more protective of their property due to all the violence we have seen in the last few years. So it could be that they don't want anyone not there for school business on their property. I can understand that. You can always say, "well, I was just jogging" as an excuse and prove you weren't. It might one of those rules that protects them from the minority but hinders the majority. I would just call the school and ask them. If they say it's not allowed, then you know.

[Can you be a Christian and still]

That's true. Voting does involve morality.

 

But, I think there's a difference between voting based on a limited, sectarian morality, and voting based on a moral general, secular morality.

 

And I support your right to your belief. You have set up a belief in your life about this topic. It's no more or less valid than mine.

 

I have my own personal, limited, sectarian moral beliefs. For example, I believe that divorce is wrong. I believe that premarital sex is wrong. I believe that abortion is wrong. I believe that owning more stuff than you need is wrong. I believe that accumulating massive wealth while others are in need is wrong. I believe that killing another person in self-defense is wrong.

 

However, I recognize that those are not beliefs that are shared by most people. They are based on a specific set of moral/spiritual tenets that matter to me. I'm not going to attempt to enact them into law, and I wouldn't want to. I can believe that non-violence is a moral imperative and so killing another person even in self-defense is wrong without feeling the need to try to make it illegal for anybody to do so.

 

And that's the point. YOU believe you shouldn't, others believe they should. Beliefs are what it's all about. So, we either ditch voting, or respect everyone's reasons for voting as valid. You have set your reasons as more valid than another's reasons.

 

In fact, I wouldn't want it to be illegal for anybody else to do so. I recognize that reasonable, kind, decent people have genuine disagreements on these issues. I would never, ever, ever want to see another person legally barred from using violence to protect their life, even if I don't think it's right. I think using the law to coerce people to act in accord with my personal moral beliefs on genuinely contested issues would be an act of violence of a kind, and one I'd not want to commit.

 

There's a difference between legislating that sort of morality, and legislating the kind of morality that all reasonable people agree on and that is necessary to keep society from falling into chaos or to keep innocent bystanders from being genuinely harmed. So, we have laws against murder, against theft, against running red lights, against setting fires. Sure, that's legislating morality in a sense, but it's legislating a universal, practical morality.

 

It's very easy for me, personally, to see the difference between moral principles that are universal and practical in nature, and those that are more specific to my personal religious ideology. I have no problem legislating the former, but I would be completely unwilling to legislate the latter.

 

And I respect that you choose not to vote your beliefs on others, which you are actually doing because you believe you shouldn't do it so that's how you vote. You always vote your beliefs. I will go ahead and vote mine and see you at the polls excited you are exercising that freedom our nation affords us.

[Can you be a Christian and still]

I'm not talking about voting to force people to be Christians. But, the Bible clearly states that worshiping any other God is wrong. It's a sin. It's the basis of the first three commandments. So, why support people's legal right to blatantly sin in that way?

 

Because God allows for that to be an individual right to choose. He left that one up to each person to decide their eternal fate. Why would I go above God's head? How to live a life (and He did set those rules for all) is all I am speaking about, not where to go for eternity. God set those two things up differently in the Bible.

 

AFAIK, nowhere does the Bible state that Christians are required to use legal means to prevent gay and lesbian people from having equal rights or entering into legal partnerships, just like it doesn't state that Christians are required to use legal means to stop people from worshiping other gods.

 

It doesn't say we should use computers either, should we all stop? No. We read the Bible and do what it says. He set up government. He sets all kings on their thrones. We are to follow the laws of the land as long as they don't break God's laws and we are to render unto Ceasar what is his. Voting is ceasers. The way we vote is God's. So, we vote according to His law in a way that ceaser set up. No conflict there at all. None.

 

 

I'm not saying that the voters are. I'm saying that, by supporting people's right to worship a false god, they are supporting idolatry with their vote. At least, that would have to follow, if by supporting people's right to marry a same-sex partner, they'd be supporting homosexuality with their vote. In both cases, they are doing the same thing: political supporting people having a choice to do something they think the Bible clearly declares to be sinful.

 

Read above. God's rule to let people choose their religion. I am not sure what the issue is there. I can't explain it any better. The Bible can lead you to that direction if you need further detail. And, show me the last time we had a bill forcing a religion on people. Why are we being griped at for not voting to force a religion on people (which would go AGAINST God's law, thus we would have to vote against it) when there's never even been a bill to vote on with that as an issue?

 

 

You want to legislate God's law into secular law when it comes to homosexuality, but not when it comes to religious observance. I'm not sure why that would be a consistent position.

 

It is a very consistant position, one consistant with God's word. I just follow it. I think you are taking exception with how He set it up. That's fine. Many do. You don't have to agree with me. You can vote against what I vote for, and vice versa. Doesn't mean I am wrong, inconsistant, or going against God's word.

[TMI thread: Europeans and shaving]

Where I live, pubic shaving before giving birth is COMPULSORY (obviously only for hospital births)! Most women do it themselves these days, to avoid being shaved with the same razor as every other women going into labor that day. The idea is that hair could cause trouble for episiotomies or c-sections, never mind that those areas are usually not really covered in hair? :001_huh:

 

Really? Hospitals still do this archaic thing? They are opening these women up to MORE infection. Oy. I didn't know anywhere still did this.

 

Not to mention, how mean to make a woman have that "wonderful" itching when she's just given birth. :001_huh:

[dog bite dilemma...what would you do after your dog bit a friend?]

She should, at minimum, pay for the medical and pharmacy bills. I would want to know why she doesn't want it reported. If this dog had bitten before, I would immediately report it to protect society. If it had never bitten before and she honestly took action to remove it from everyone but her and her husband (no kids, no guests, etc), then I might be more lax in reporting it. But a huge perk in my red flag meter would be her asking for it not to be reported.

[if you don't give out candy for halloween...]

We don't give out candy because we don't know allergies in kids. Having a child that, if he grabbed one and ate it before we got home, it would be bad makes us more aware.

 

We give out safe items. So far no retaliation. I would seriously discipline my kids if they did that. Talk about ungrateful for free stuff from strangers.

 

We give out things similar to those listed above: rings, bracelets, etc.

[Sept. 6...most terrifying 13 hours of my life]

Oh my. I would have been so scared as well. I am so sorry it happened like that but so, so happy to hear the kids are doing OK right now. My prayers are with you and please keep us posted. :grouphug: for you and a tiny, little :grouphug: for your new son and daughter.

[TMI thread: Europeans and shaving]

I know two german women (not related to each other) and both shave. That's all I can say about European women shaving or not. Hehehe.