DandelionMom
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Posts posted by DandelionMom
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My oldest LOVED Descartes' Cove and I am about to start Ko's Journey with my youngest.
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This is typical of Waldorf. Science and mathematics don't fit into anthroposophy.
I guess it depends. It isn't that science and math are not taught and don't fit into anthroposophy, it is just that they are taught differently and in a more ethereal and imaginative way. Not so much facts and figures as much as curiosities and wonder. Like thinking about the meaning behind numbers and equations instead of just doing rote math practice, or studying the beauty and design of a tree instead of only learning the anatomy and processes. My 16 year old is now a full-time university student majoring in artificial intelligence and robotics, and we homeschooled her using Waldorf methods. She did attend a Waldorf school for 3 years when she was little, and I have to agree that if she were to solely have that education and no supplementation from me, it could have been a different story. However, using Waldorf methods and combining them with classical or CM at home can produce great outcomes.
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Hmm, this thread is old, but I'll bite anyway.
The basic philosophies of the two are at odds with each other. I often find it odd when people are choosing between educational philosophies that are so disparate. Like, oh, I'd like to unschool OR do Montessori. Huh? Of course, if you yourself have your own philosophy and fit various individual methods from different things together, then that could make sense. For example, using the 4 year history cycle, using copywork, etc. from classical and using art materials and focusing on nature and storytelling from Waldorf as a part of a greater overall program.
The part that I see that always strikes me is that some homeschoolers are just drawn to things, but don't have a greater philosophy to fit the pieces into, so it's all just bits of things you're doing together. I don't think that will necessarily hurt kids... but I wouldn't personally be comfortable with that. I like to have a greater sense of WHY I'm doing what I'm doing and how it all fits together.
You have a great point, and it can be confusing how different contradictory philosophies can be combined to teach children well. As a homeschooling mom with over 11 years of experience, I have seen the outcomes of combining curriculum and it can be done. We started out with Waldorf materials, but because we have two profoundly gifted children it was impossible to "tame" their curiosities and deeper interests in learning. The classical approach really meets this need, but I did not want to lose the beauty and sweetness of the Waldorf way. When I tried going all Waldorf or all classical, it was either too thin or too dry,
respectively. Over time I learned that I could combine the materials in a symbiotic and beautiful way. For example, when we do work in the Alpha Omega history and geography for grade 5, I will read the passage aloud, then have my daughter work on a fully illustrated map in her main lesson book using Waldorf materials and artistic techniques. We used a combined approach with our 16 year old, who is now a full-time university student.
It can work, but I agree that you really have to know what you want to accomplish before you try to combine materials. For example, I knew exactly which elements I wanted to keep from each aproach, and which elements I wanted to lose. Actually, the Montessori method can actually work quite well with unschooling, if you make sure to surround your child's environment with the Montessori materials. However, if you just put out a few bead chains with nothing else to promote understanding then it will not work well. Montessori is extremely child-led, and so is unschooling, so I can see how those can go well together. Same thing for classical and Waldorf - they are both very teacher-led and follow a fairly rigid structure.
Anyway, great comment and very thought-provoking!
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We have always found that using Waldorf with classical methods has worked out well for us.
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I just wanted to say that I agree that serious thought should be given before "skipping levels" in Waldorf (e.g, OM K thru 4), because there is built-in a lot of ideas about child dev at each level. However, modern developmental neurobiology has shown us that there really is a wide range of "normal" and I don't think it is so simple. So I don't feel bound by Steiner's plans any more than I feel bound by anyone else's. ;)
When you start talking about the accelerated child, those children whose nature is to think abstractly and deeply at very young ages rather than being pushed to do so, it can be a bit harder sometimes to find the sweet spot where you are maintaining the childlike wonder and exploration without boring them to tears. An example is my dd for whom the WTM cycles would be torture because she has a nearly didactic memory and finds repetition painful -- basically, I've only got one shot at each period in history but can go to any depth and she'll retain it and be able to recall and integrate it with later learning. Totally shot my initial lesson planning! :lol:
I have OM1 and OM2, I think both are lovely, and think the best way to tell which is best for a child is when OM is kind enough to send extended samples so you can try it out for a couple weeks. :D I personally do tend to keep the level near age and add on any head acceleration by going to greater depths, so I do understand the argument for matching level to age. OTOH, I recognize the individuality of each child and can see that there may be reason to move up or down a level to fit. :)
I agree with you here. I have two PG daughters and also use Waldorf curriculum as a base. THey both learn very, very fast and I struggled with how I was going to go about teaching Waldorf without grade skipping. The solution I cam up with was to combine the Waldorf curriculum with another curriculum, keeping Waldorf at their age level and the other at their learning level. For example, I combine Christropherus and Earthschooling at grade 4 with Alpha Omegaat grades 5 and 6. This might be controversial and taboo in the Waldorf community, but it helps me give my girls the Waldorf approach while catering to their academic needs.
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Christoperus nd Earthschooling offer the best form drawing instruction, inmy opinion.
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I have tried just about all of these and really love Christopherus the best. It has the instruction I need, the traditional approach that I love and enough pictures and examples to help me understand what to do. I love Live Education as well, but agree that it is VERY costly and does not have enough instruction. You can also find great supplemental books at AWSNA.
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We have used Oak Meadow in the past and found it helpful if you need a lot of instruction, but it is not as traditional "Waldorf" as other curriculum, like LIve Education or Christopherus. It is more like a cross over between Waldorf and classical I think.
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I love homeschooling with Waldorf methods though. It really allows you to use what you love and leave the stuff you don't out.
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(((HUGS))) :grouphug:
You are not alone...Hang in there!!!
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K12 by far...a few times actually. The advertising kept sucking me in. What a nightmare.
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ICELAND! YES!:w00t:
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:grouphug::grouphug::grouphug:
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No skipping here...makes it too hard to get back into lesson again. We are going to the park a lot though, so it makes the weeks more enjoyable!
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I learned to read at 4 memorizing word with no phonics whatsoever, and I am also a terrible speller and I can't pronounce new words that I've never heard before. And I am afraid of the same thing happening to my kids.
This is similar to my own experience. I don't know what age I started to read, but I do remember starting kindergarten as the youngest in my class and thinking that all of the reading material was really babyish....feeling confused that we only had baby books. I remember reading books before I started kindergarten and remember memorizing whole words, so I must have been a whole word reader, and I also struggled with spelling and such.
I really feel for you. Both of my girls started reading by 3, self-taught, and I learned the hard way that not many people understand how, or even feel compelled to offer support. Even among the "gifted" crowd, people sometimes have a tendency to want to advice you to "slow down" or "let kids be kids." It is my belief that these opinions either arise from jealousy or from a lack of understanding of the needs of profoundly gifted children.
Your child obviously loves to learn, craves learning and is showing you that he is wanting more. I say follow the child and don't worry if others don't "get it."
Also, I encourage you to feel confident that you will intuitively know what your child needs and how to make the right choices for teaching, curriculum and educational materials. You are the best person in the world to make decisions for your child.
Blessings,
Kelly
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As for the drawing, he didn't get far, he's too much of a perfectionist.
In my experience it is the perfectionism that deters certain kids from wanting to do handwriting...at least that is how it was with mine. My oldest in particular had the worst handwriting and HATED handwriting practice. However, we stuck with HWT and once she started the cursive books it was MUCH better for her. I think the fluidity of the cursive handwriting helps the perfectionism a lot. Just my 2 cents:)
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LOL, thanks:)
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World Autism Awareness Day is April 2nd, and Special Needs World is holding a competition to see who can "Light It Up Blue" in the most unique and interesting way. The winner will get an Autism Play and Sign set from Signing Time! I have set up a group under the "Groups" page where you can post your pictures of how you lit up your house, car, building etc with blue lights in honor of the World Autism Awareness Day, and will choose a winner to be announced on April 7th. Here is the link...
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Yes we have totally different days when we have eggs in the morning. Cereal or bread always ends up with cranky, distracted mornings.
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I think that is how kids like these get overlooked in the public school system. The special needs can overshadow the gifts. If educators do not have an insight as to the ability of the child, or the unique gifts that the child possesses, the child may just be seen as a problem. I can vouch, though, that my daughters were both very active and emotional at 6...really tough age for a 2E kid in my opinion.
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This is exactly how my oldest daughter would act when she will little, and I remember seeking help in the same way you are because the discipline methods that worked for other people never worked with her no matter how long or how diligent I was with the method. She also lied and even stole things when she was 4-6 years old. She wasn't troubled or attention-seeking, but her actions were solely caused by her confusion and lack of understanding of other people's reactions to her. The only advice I can give you, as someone who truly understands what you are going through, it to keep giving her love, praise her a LOT when she does the right things, keep your boundaries with her as much as possible, and just ride out the storm. From my experience, once my oldest reached puberty a switch went off in her brain that enabled her to understand everything more and bathed her in calm and serenity. People kept telling me "boy, watch out when that child hits puberty," but I found the opposite to be true. Maybe it is just with Asperger's kids, or Asperger's girls, but my daughter became more enlightened, more calm, better able to take instruction, better able to follow authority and most of all...she could enjoy her day and be happy. Before she hit puberty she would get so frustrated, every day, that other people would nickname her face "the (daughter's name) face." I did not appreciate this, and it hurt her feelings, but it just demonstrates how angry and defiant she was. Ages 5 to 6 and 8 to 9 were the most difficult for us. It seemed like half of every year was very, very rough, then the next half it seemed as though she was "getting it." This would always be followed with the next half of the year being very, very rough, and the following half of the year with her "getting it." But, once puberty hit, she stayed calm, stable and insightful.
I hope I am not rambling too much, but this subject is really close to my heart. Just as a background, my oldest has Asperger's, autistic savantism and very severe sensory integration dysfunction (3rd percentile). She has always been extremely verbal, spoke in complex sentences at 12 months and taught herself to read at 3, but could not "communicate" with anyone or follow instruction. She would bolt out in front of cars and would leave the house when we were sleeping (autism-related wandering). She would lash out and start "flailing" in stores, restaurants, everywhere, and I would constantly get looks from people or unwarranted advice that never worked. I really understand.
All I can say is, hang in there. You aren't alone. You are doing a great job and even though every day may not be perfect, you are the perfect mom for your child. It will get better, and she will be happy.
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I would seek out another doctor. Some doctor really do not understand autism and think of only the classic autistic characteristics. I would not even take the second doctors diag. seriously. You know your dd better than anyone. Maybe looking into a full autism screening from a local Easter Seals.
I totally second this! If the doctor doesn't understand what she/he is looking at, the diagnosis will be completely wrong.
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I read Pretending to Be Normal last night and it really knocked me back. She describes me almost perfectly. I mentioned it to my dh and of course he felt threatened by it and insisted that I'm normal (but crazy) because his experience in school was great. :confused: I have no idea, but I shut down the conversation. :lurk5:
I am going to have to check this one out!
"Early readers average out by 3rd grade" - what's your take?
in Accelerated Learner Board
Posted
Both of my girls taught themselves how to read at age 3 and by 3rd grade were reading at high school level...I don't understand how people could think that it averages out. By that age, my oldest had read almost all of the Harry Potter books and the entire Hobbit and LOTR books independently, and standard 3rd grade books are Little House in the Big Wood and Charlotte's Web. I wonder who is doing this study...
I think also that academic maturity and emotional maturity can be vastly different. My girls have always been multiple grades above level academically, but were prone to acting very babyish and pitching tantrums like a much younger child. It has always really thrown people and can cause a lot of presumptions and judgement.