Literary Mom
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Posts posted by Literary Mom
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Literary Lessons from Lord of the Rings
Exploring Creation with Biology (Jay Wile)
CLE Sunrise Algebra
You'll notice history is missing. That happened yesterday. We were doing it the WTM way, with the History of the Ancient World, and it turns out, she can't stand it. She loves history, but not the time period (well, not until the Greeks) nor what she perceived as the dry writing style (no offense to SWB, to whom I owe a debt of gratitude for helping to get us this far starting in the first grade). So I am on the look out for another curriculum, still focusing on ancients...or I may just decide to put it together myself. I am doing MOH with my younger two (after two cycles of SOTW, we needed a change), so there is the option of beefing that up (has anyone done that? I'll search the threads after this). She actually did MOH modern times last year for 8th grade and really liked it, but ancients seems too light (even lighter than SOTW). We are in a weekly supplemental homeschool program at our local learning center, so we get history through that as well, and it's chronological, so this year is ancients as well. That's also where she gets some grammar review (she completed AG last year, all in one year, with flying colors), as it covers all subjects.
If anyone has a high school ancient history curriculum they love, please share about it. Thanks!
UPDATE: I rummaged through my curriculum archive and discovered Beautiful Feet Ancients. Because we started the junior high version four years ago, I even have most of the books for it, so we are off and running with the senior high version (both versions are in the BF curriculum). She wasn't ready for it then, but it seems to be just right for her now, right on down the literature list, which she finds much more appealing than reading the actual classics from the ancient period. As much as I wanted that for her, I see that she is not ready, and nothing good can come of forcing it. I honestly don't think I would have been ready for the original works (albeit translated) when I was in ninth grade - granted I didn't have the classical-ish homeschool education she has had. Still, I think it has to do with cognitive development as well, and we just aren't there yet, which I actually think is a good thing, because you only have your childhood once!
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What a great opportunity! That looks wonderful! :) Hope you have a super year with Chronos Cohort!
Yes, we did. We really enjoyed Literary Lessons from the Lord of the Rings, esp. the 12 units of tangential material. Those units and the end-of-chapter notes/questions are really the meat of the program. It was a bit light for us in the literary analysis dept. so for discussion, we used LLftLotR more as a springboard to then go deeper on our own. Also, because we were doing the heavier Ancient classics for our meatier analysis and study that same year, it was fine to use the lighter LLftLotR mostly as written, and just take our discussion deeper. It made for a fun, lighter balance.
I have since twice taught a year-long Lit. & Comp. class for gr. 7-12 on the Lord of the Rings trilogy, and the first time around I thought I would be able to use quite a bit of LLftLotR, but it was way too light for what I was trying to accomplish, and I ended up writing my own lessons and questions and assignments, and used just a little of LLftLotR in the class.
But I do think LLftLotR is a terrific, gentle intro to literary analysis program, esp. for a student who is really "into" Lord of the Rings. I'd say the program would be best for grades 7-9 for those with not much prior formal literature studies -- 6th grade for a strong reader, 10th grade for a "late bloomer" in writing/reading/literary analysis.
This is very helpful. She has been resistant to literary analysis (thinks it takes the fun out of reading), so this sounds like a good way to get her feet wet, since I am pretty certain she'll love the books (fantasy and history are her favorite genres). I tend to "beef up" whatever we're reading with my own insights, but just informally through discussion. Since I know LOTR fairly well, I am hoping that LLftLotR will be the catalyst to make me better prepared, though not as thoroughly as what you did (that sounds amazing!).
I had hoped that reading/discussing The Eternal Argument this past year would give her motivation to go deeper, but alas, while she loved it, she is just as resistant to writing anything beyond summaries (lengthy ones, lol). That's one reason I'm actually glad we're going back to ancients, because I'd rather save novels for the last couple years of high school when she'll be more mature and equipped to analyze them.
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Just wanted to let you know that we are drop-outs from the Logos Online program (because of Omnibus' theology component which was way over the head, and ignoring the heart of my then 13 yr-old) and I still have the literature books for Omnibus III, if you would be interested in buying the lot at a bargain price. I didn't purchase all of them, but have most for the first semester. I sold the textbook recently on Amazon. That thing was pricey!
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I have been contemplating doing that as well. Did you use this?
http://www.homescholar.org/LOTR%20Curr.htm
We were also doing a full-year Lord of the Rings trilogy study at the same time to help keep up from feeling overwhelmed by too much ancient Lit. ;)
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Thanks for these ideas! I have two younger ones as well (grades 4 & 6), that I am planning to use MOH with, but still dip into SOTW some (I've been through two cycles of it).
Our reading list will also be integrated with / complementary to a new group learning experience created by a family in our church that operates a learning center (until now, she was a CC director - some of you may remember my "Is Classical Conversations Neither?" thread, so this is a wonderful answered prayer). They are working on publishing a curriculum that will be available as a free download (with a hard copy for purchase). So we will be beta testers :) What they are doing totally meshes with the four year history cycle (and they are using SWB's books as spines). Check it out here:
http://goldengatelearning.center/chronos-cohorts
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I am starting with the lit list in the WTM, but I would like to balance/lighten it with other less heady but still relevant/worthwhile book selections, e.g. young adult historical fiction. Our history spines will be The History of Ancient World and Mystery of History. I would appreciate seeing other people's reading lists who are correlating literature with history for this time period. I am open to other curriculum suggestions as well. I am a last minute planner, so this is just my rough draft. Thanks!
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I have read that the older edition, which incorporates geometry, is lacking about 30% of what's needed for college admission tests. And some tests have to be taken before the student would take algebra 2, so they won't even have the further geometry needed at that point. I also gathered that the geometry component isn't well integrated - sort of an afterthought tacked on at the end and/or erratically interspersed. Is that a misperception?
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OP, is there a particular reason you are only considering the 4th edition of Saxon? Personally, I wouldn't use Saxon unless I was using the earlier editions. The earlier editions contain Saxon math as it was originally intended to be taught -- in an integrated manner. The 4th edition was published by Houghton Mifflin in an effort to create textbooks to sell widely in the public school market -- it mostly cuts and pastes the formerly integrated topics into separate books, and adds a bunch of stuff. I've not heard great things about the 4th edition from either math reviewers or homeschool parents who try to use the books.
eta: So, in sum, if you are not interested in using an integrated math program, it's probably best to go with something other than Saxon altogether, rather than to consider the 4th edition.
I've actually done a lot of research on this and found pros and cons with both editions:
What you already know https://drshormann.com/2012/02/08/differences-in-3rd-and-4th-edition-saxon-algebra-1/
Another perspective http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/375341-saxon-math-algebra-1-3rd-of-4th-edition/
Another perspective http://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/313846-any-reviews-on-saxon-algebra-4th-edition/?hl=%22saxon+algebra%22
Thorough review/comparison http://cathyduffyreviews.com/homeschool-reviews-core-curricula/math/grades-9-12/saxon-math-54-through-calculus
Same as above but for geometry http://cathyduffyreviews.com/homeschool-reviews-core-curricula/math/math-grades-9-12/saxon-geometry
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I think I am questioning whether in the long run, the spiral approach has worked well for my daughter. It seemed to when we were using CLE (through the 600s), but not since switching to Saxon and pre-algebra. She tends to do well with the lesson practice, but miss a lot on the mixed review, so that's why I'm wondering if a mastery approach would have been better. I am not sure whether Saxon is the problem or having used a spiral approach all these years is. Or if it's just that pre-algebra covers so much material. I have read that algebra is actually easier, since it's not as much review as pre-algebra. Thoughts?
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I think we are going to try Saxon, since we already have it. If we start encountering the same frustrations, then I will likely order CLE. And next year, I may get their 700s for my younger daughter instead of switching to Saxon 7/8 like I did with my oldest. All three of my kids (two daughters, one son) have done really well with CLE. I just had always heard (in these forums) that I should switch to Saxon for pre-algebra, so that's why I did that. Maybe that was before they had made Sunrise Algebra? Would be cool if they revise geometry by another year from now...but it sounds like there are other good options either way...
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I would be more inclined to consider going back to CLE. Jacobs is a solid program, but CLE will have the advantage of strongly reminding him of when math used to go swimmingly and put more emphasis on Saxon having been just a bad fit for him.
Should have clarified that she's my daughter :)
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whoosh...whoosh..whoosh...
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Used CLE (swimmingly) until pre-algebra when we switched to Saxon and it took us the last two years to complete...with much gnashing of teeth. I currently own the 4th edition of Saxon Algebra, but with my upcoming 9th grader and I both somewhat traumatized by our experience, I am considering either going back to CLE or trying something new like Jacobs (new edition coming out in September) or Foerster or Lial. So I'm resurrecting this thread in hopes of getting some updates and input...
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All this feedback is great! Thank you for sharing. I'm sure it will be helpful to other people as well.
I definitely agree with the first two books of W&R being quite good, the third okay, but the fourth I'm not as hot about. I will have to see if it picks up in the second half - we put it aside to finish up AG (2 hrs a day on language arts was too much!), but will return to it after next week. We have been going through about a book and a half per year.
Art of Argument seems to be a winner, so I'll be buying that for sure, and looking into the other recommendations.
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New to the thread. Alas, my book is orange - My Antonia by Willa Cather. Books I've read this year: Great Expectations, Pilgrim's Regress (C.S. Lewis), The Way of the Pilgrim, O Pioneers (Cather). I read Middlemarch and gave up in the middle of the book (350+ pp) just before mid-March. I wasn't enjoying it and didn't want to waste three more weeks on it. I only read for pleasure when I go to bed, so usually 30-60 min a night, which means I average a book every 2-3 weeks.
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I know I am not up for joining you at this time but you would be very welcome to join us over on the book a week threadhttp://forums.welltrainedmind.com/topic/592141-book-a-week-2016-bw11-happy-st-patricks-week/. We have a wide range of books being read always.
I wish I could read a book a week! Alas, fiction (that I read to myself, not the kids) is reserved for the hour before I go to sleep at night, so it's slow going. I fit in non-fiction at random times. I'm going to have to figure out a schedule for this thing and plan accordingly, but I'm estimating 2-3 weeks per work, what with it being quite challenging reading (Homer, etc.). Thanks for the invite, though!
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Am going to try this again, since I didn't manage it the first time around, though I do have lots more classics under my belt (from the last 200 years). I'll be starting in ancients this August with my oldest who will be in 9th grade. If anyone wants to join me on this quest (not sure I'll do all of the list), let me know. I'm tentatively thinking of creating a Facebook group. It may also be for the History of the Ancient World, since we'll probably be using that, too. So basically it would be a WTM High School Parents history & lit club :)
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Just a heads up that the Study and Teaching Guides aren't listed under the grade levels on the webstore - only under Student Pages. For a second there, I thought you discontinued them. Are guides for the last two years of high school history underway? Update: found the answer in another thread, and it was yes :)
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I met Christopher Perrin of Classical Academic Press at a Great Homeschool Convention several years ago. His talks were my favorite (vive la truth, beauty, goodness...and rest!). I felt sure that I must have been missing out by not using any CAP curriculum, so I decided to dive in...
Modern Language (Shiny but remains untested)
That day, I impulse bought their Spanish program, but didn't end up using it because I couldn't juggle three kids and two languages, so I persisted with teaching Memoria Press Latin and outsourced French (my second language) to Rosetta Stone, but progress was slow and enthusiasm waned (methodology was too haphazard), so we dropped it after a year. Then a few months back, I finally laid Latin to rest on the condition that we would resume study of a modern language. That's when I saw CAP's new French program and was, of course, smitten again. I determined we would start as soon as we wrapped up the first season of AG. Well, we passed the halfway mark of our school year a few weeks ago, and we still have a few weeks of AG to go, so I am hesitant to start something new towards the end of the school year.
Writing (Great at first; now not so sure)
Meanwhile, I discovered Writing & Rhetoric just as I was at the end of my rope with Writing With Ease. W&R turned out to be a much better fit for my daughter's affinity for both creativity and structure. Two years later, we're halfway through the fourth book and the compatibility seems to be wearing off. I am not sure if just this particular book (Chreia/Proverb) or the whole program, but as we're about to enter middle school, I am tempted to explore other options...
Bible (Mixed)
I started with the first book of God's Great Covenant: Old Testament this past fall. I used it with my 3rd and 5th graders, so it was a bit on the easy side for them, but I thought that might be better, since we had not formally studied the Bible before (on a consistent basis). We made it through the book of Genesis, but as we were meandering along, I had that nagging sense that there was bit too much busy work (trivia and such), while all the meat of it was in the teacher notes, which I found myself reading aloud to them, and it being a bit much to digest at once. I wished there was something in between the detailed notes for parents and the literal fill in the blank, matching, multiple choice worksheets. I suppose I was supposed to adapt the notes, but who has time for that? Then I discovered that when we switch from SOTW to MOH next year, we'll be covering a lot of OT history, so I decided to set aside GGC, with the possibility of bringing it back later in conjunction with MOH. Also, it had been taking a long time to read both the Bible story (summary of multiple Bible chapters) in the GGC as well as actual chapters from the Bible, and I didn't like how we were skipping a lot, though I understand it's not practical to have a curriculum that has you read the entire Bible, hence the Bible story/summary with the option to read the actual Bible. Since we dropped that, I have been reading the gospel of Luke to them, in small doses each day, and discussing it, after our opening prayer (during "Morning Time").
Curious about...
I am currently tempted by their literature guides and logic books. That would be for my oldest (8th grade), the one who I taught Latin to from 2nd grade through the middle of this year (about a quarter of the way into Second Form Latin). She is excellent at Latin grammar and vocabulary (memory like a vault) but hates translations and the tedium of it all. I let her drop it when we picked up AG (she is completing all three seasons this year), because it seemed cruel and redundant to inflict all of that on her at once. She actually enjoys AG. Anyway, we do own Latin Alive, so there is a slim chance we will use that next year, should she balk at learning a modern language (which has been her attitude from day one of the logic stage other than the brief bout with Rosetta Stone), but when we initially tried it, it was actually too easy for her (I'm guessing it just starts out that way).
...What CAP curriculum has worked for you and what hasn't? The more details you can share, the better. Thanks!
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You might take a look at the WTM Academy online classes for a few of your high school courses. In your original post, you had expressed interest in the WTM. It is classical. You would have strong teacher support/grading. And you would not need to commute or be the tutor. ;) As I recall, CC at the Challenge level runs about $1200? That would get you 2 WTM Academy classes in History and Literature/Writing -- or whatever subjects you feel would be best to outsource…
Also, as I recall, CC uses Saxon and Apologia, and I believe the Virtual Homeschool Group is a free online co-op and has classes for both of those, so that might be co-op support option for another 2 courses.
Just a thought! :) BEST of luck in deciding! Warmest regards, Lori D.
Actually, we've been WTMers from the beginning (seven years ago). I was just a bit too rigid with that in some points, so I was allowing us more freedom to go in other directions, like Charlotte Mason. But the book is always on hand and I will definitely use it to help devise a plan for the coming year(s).
This old thread being dug up was serendipitous and pretty much put the nail in the coffin for Challenge - I just never like to say never, because you never know ;)
We got a taste of online classes this past fall when we tried Logos Academy. It wasn't terrible, but one class (on which the whole diploma program hinged) was not the right fit (long story), so we dropped all of them (too confining to follow their schedule, homework protocol, etc.), and now my daughter is very adamant that she doesn't want to do online classes again - she wants to work one-on-one with me, independently, and possibly in a small group. We do have some co-op options (unfortunately involving commuting again), so we may go that route, or we may just keep doing what we're doing. We also might trying to start a class and/or club to provide the group dynamic (possibly literature, drama/theater, journalism). I am not, however, ruling out online options, particularly in subjects where I am less proficient (i.e. advanced math/science).
I appreciate the input :)
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Actually I'm still here, and her opinion is appreciated and timely, because I was just reluctantly revisiting the idea of Challenge for high school (my oldest starts 9th grade this fall), but definitely having my same reservations. Also because it would require commuting or else being the tutor myself.
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Okay, I went with MOH, because that fits more with my original goals (I am easily sidetracked). Whenever I buy BF, we end up not really using it - it just sits there looking pretty. I don't want to go off into just American History right now, so that rules out Notgrass. Also, both are geared toward 5th-8th, whereas I'd rather be on the bottom rung of a curriculum aimed at older kids (or in the middle of one that's for all ages). Biblioplan could still be in our future, but for right now it's too many components (decision fatigue!) which add up to more than I want to pay. I'm not going to even say what kind of hit we took for dropping out of Logos, but it was a real doozy...
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Now I'm torn between Notgrass (America the Beautiful), Beautiful Feet, and Mystery of History!
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How is this going? I am thinking of getting this for my 8th grader.
What are you doing for 9th grade?
in High School and Self-Education Board
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I updated my earlier post, because I seem to have found a fix to our history problem - thank the Lord :hurray: