Jenny in GA
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Posts posted by Jenny in GA
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I went through menopause at 38. Ten years later, I'm still waiting for hot flashes to start. I don't know if I was lucky enough to bypass them because I was so young, or if they'll be kicking in soon ...
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My always-homeschooled son will be starting third grade at public school tomorrow.
Today we were able to visit the school and briefly meet his teacher for the first time. I asked her if I could see the books they were using and have her tell me a little about what they were doing in each subject. Rather reluctantly (after I asked her twice), she brought me into the classroom and showed me the math and science books.
I told her that I was particularly concerned about writing, as I wasn't sure if he was where the school would expect him to be (my son is currently at the beginning of WWE and struggles with and balks at that). She explained that they had just finished narrative-writing and that she would expect him to show up when he starts (which is tomorrow!) being able to write a good narrative.
I thought to myself, "Okay, so that's not too bad ... he can tell me a good narrative from his SOTW lessons, he just never writes the entire thing himself, so that part will be something new for him."
Then the teacher continued, "A full three-paragraph narrative with three, good paragraphs is what I would expect from him right now."
Well ... she is probably going to faint when she sees the writing samples from WWE 2 that I left her, because I don't think he's ever written three sentences, let alone three paragraphs!
She also said something about how they use Lucy Calkins' Writers Workshop.
I am sorry to say that I made a visible face when I heard that.
I read some of Calkins' stuff when I was working on my M.Ed, and if I remember correctly, it could not be more different than the WWE approach!
I get the impression -- although I could be totally wrong -- that the Writer's Workshop stuff is all about "write about your feelings, write, write, write, it doesn't matter what, it doesn't how, just write lots and lots" and the kids write pages of garbage (or worse, spend a lot of time doodling and goofing off, since they can't or won't write for an hour every day!)
(Anyone know more about it than I do?)
Anyway ... other than the fact that I probably totally got off on the wrong foot with my son's new teacher ... I'm wondering if anyone has any advice about how to make this transition.
How can a kid go from complaining and struggling with copywork and dictation of a sentence or two to suddenly writing three paragraphs off the top of his head??
Any ideas what we can do to make this easier for everyone involved? Thanks!
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Thanks for all the feedback.
The more I'm thinking about it, the more I'm particularly concerned about writing.
My son is just starting WWE2 and he really struggles with it -- and complains about it.
I have no idea what kind of writing a third grade public school class does, but I'm quite sure it will be different than what we're doing.
Anyone know anything about typical writing expectations at that level?
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Expect to have to reteach math. Expect to have to learn the common core math in order to reteach it at home. Do a different math at home as well so that your child does not lose math knowledge. We spent this semester doing Saxon Algebra 1 Dive CD's (watching lessons only) that went with the Honors Algebra topics that dd was studying with common core math. This was the only way that she kept her A in the class.
I don't understand this. So I have to re-teach the same math lessons at home myself (why?), and then we also have to homeschool math using a different curriculum?? :confused1:
Please explain. Thanks.
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I have three kids who have always been homeschooled.
My husband has been saying for some time that he thinks that our youngest, an eight year old boy, would be happier in school. (Mostly because of social reasons.)
To make a long story shorter, this weekend we all agreed to give school a try for him for one grading period (nine weeks) and then make future decisions based on how it goes. Our local elementary school has a very very good reputation.
First of all, has anyone else ever done something like this?
Second, whether you've done school as a "trial" or just entered public school for the first time in the middle of a school year, what should I know and advice do you have? I'm so out of the loop -- my older child asked if we needed to go shopping to get him a backpack, and I was like, "Oh yeah ... I guess so!"
Thanks for any insight or stories.
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Excuse me for sounding so negative, but do keep in mind that many many women truly do go bald, and there's not much they can do about it.
The reason I say this is because I know how frustrating it is to spend literally years trying to take vitamins, change your diet, read about how to help thinning hair, change your shampoo, imagine it's temporary, etc, etc -- while watching your hair get thinner and thinner because none of it does any good.
Even doctors and hairdressers had nothing to offer me other than, "Try this expensive shampoo" or "sure, try a multi-vitamin, see if it helps."
Finally, I found a doctor who gave me a scalp biopsy and discover that I had female-pattern baldness.
This may very well not be your situation, but I wanted to throw that in because it seems like on these hair loss threads all anyone does is recommend [debatable]products to fix it. But some things can't be fixed.
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Also, here is some information from Freedom Hair, the organization I bought my hair from. If I understand correctly, there will make sure that all donated hair goes to someone who needs it for medical reasons.
http://www.freedomwigs.com/subsidies-information/Hair%20Donation%20criteria.pdf
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Yes, please donate your hair, but not to Locks of Love!
There are many, many, many women like me who rely on donations from people like you in order for us to have any hair!
Locks of Love, I have heard, will take excess hair, or hair that is appropriate for an adult and not a child, strip it and color it (which totally destroys it) and sell it as hair extensions.
There are so many people that need your hair -- especially if it is blond or light brown.
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You're all kidding right? You aren't all actually expecting me (and the dozen to dozen and a half of the others like me) in the middle of conversations with someone else; in the act of directing/retrieving preschoolers here and there and setting boundaries; in the act of returning and borrowing curriculum and discussing it with someone who asked to borrow it to browse through; unloading camp chairs, lunches, water bottles, play equipment; signing in; directing children to help the coach unload equipment and get in the correct lines based on age for warm ups; to not only do all of this which requires attention (I was was explaining to a newbie homeschooler what subject integration is and giving her several examples of it because we both got there a few minutes early and were engaged in conversation as the start time neared) but to immediately stop mid-conversation soon as a new person shows up and stands silently at a distance at a large park and draw them into the group every time.
No, we're not expecting that at all.
Instead, we're expecting people who have never been to a place before, don't know anybody and are maybe even unsure where to go and what to do, to butt into your conversations, chase after you while you're retrieving preschoolers, and pester you when you're unloading equipment and signing in.
From your earlier post, it sounds like you saw and recognized these particular people looking new and confused and trying to make eye contact with people. That doesn't sound like "expecting a Welcome Wagon" to me. That sounds like someone doing the best they can, especially if everybody else is as busy and oblivious as you described.
Then you scorned them (at least in your own mind) for their lack of social skills and initiative and considered it a burden to do something to help them out.
Sheesh. :huh:
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5
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So, very tentatively, I am jumping in to ask a question that has been occurring to me as I've kept up with the thread over the last few days. Several posters have stated that it would be fine if she were unschooling, but since the mother has stated that she *means* to teach them but just never gets to it, she is *not* unschooling. My question stems from that thought. Is there a difference between an *intentional* unschooler and an "accidental" unschooler? How would the children's lives look any different if the mom declared herself an unschooler? Is unschooling educational neglect? What is the difference?
I am asking in seriousness--I have no agenda regarding unschooling. It just seems that some posters feel that the label makes a difference, and my understanding of unschooling (which admittedly may be uninformed) is that the actual outworking of unschooling may look very much like what is happening here.
I used to be very involved in the unschooling community, so I thought I'd try to answer that one.
It is a very fine line.
The idea is that is someone is truly unschooling, they are providing good learning opportunities. They may very well not be instructing them in basics, but they aren't just ignoring them.
Where it gets sticky is that many unschoolers firmly believe that playing World of Warcraft for 8 hours a day is a fabulous educational opportunity for a teenager.
No, I'm not making that up. I know this family personally.
But at least the intent is there, even if it's different choices than what I would make.
To me, that is still different than, "Huh, we can't be bothered with my kids, and we're not even around them most of the day."
(Notice that I said "we" and not "I.")
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This is a very good question. The unschooling families that I know personally teach the basics like reading and math as a way for the kids to learn what they really want to know. So if a child is interested in space flight, they would need to learn how to do math and to read in order to learn about space flight. The unschooling families that I am familiar with want their children to love to learn, so they do the normal stuff in elementary so that in middle and high school, the kids can learn whatever they want.
If a family is unschooling and not teaching their kids how to read, write or how to do (basic) math, then that is not unschooling (IMO), that is not schooling at all.
This is getting off-topic a bit, but one of the "Biggest Names" in the unschooling community had a child who was not reading at age twelve because "kids are ready at different times."
This woman claimed that the child went from not being able to read to reading and understanding a Stephen King novel in less than something like four months because she was suddenly "ready" and "interested."
Is that educational neglect?
Is that unschooling?
Dunno.
But people that write unschooling books and speak at unschooling conferences claim:
1) No
2) Yes
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I have such a love/hate relationship with WWS. I love the way it's laid out, I love the structure, the way it breaks things down, the really quality instruction ...
BUT I can't stand some of the reading selections. Worse, my 8th grade daughter (who is on week 5 in WWS Level 2) says it is SO boring -- and sometimes difficult to understand -- that writing is her most hated subject, and she dreads doing it every day.
That isn't good! Especially since she is a kid who generally likes to write.
I don't think she would like the MCT writing books we have on the shelf because she is a very step-by-step, checklist type of kid.
I know some people say they use WWS concepts with their own reading selections, but to me that would feel like writing my own curriculum, and I really don't have the interest to do that.
Can anyone suggest some writing curriculums for this age that are similar concepts and structure to WWS but with examples that don't make us want to kill ourselves?
Also, any suggestions for note-taking and writing a research paper in particular? The lessons in WWS about those looked so awful we didn't even want to go there, and skipped them entirely.
Thanks so much!
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I have a memory of my MIL visiting us when my oldest was four or five. We were going through toddler clothes and packing them up to give to a charity.
My daughter said said, very seriously, "But if the clothes are torn, then don't give it to them."
My MIL implored, "Oh, no! Still give it to them! They'll still be happy to have it! They'll sew it if it's torn!"
She said this not because she had disdain for the poor, but because she has been poor, her family went through the depression, and you could tell that she appalled at the idea of clothing going to waste just because it had a tear in it.
Just another thought to throw into the mix. (And a way for me to procrastinate this afternoon.)
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Why?
The parent writes down what the kid WANTS.
I hate the attitude that a poor kid can't want what every other kid has without being greedy.
I like to pick the big kids of the giving tree bc those are the last ones picked- no one thinks they deserve a gift tho they are as deserving as any 2 yr old who will be satisfied with a walmart toy.
If you want to break your heart, work one of the Xmas give aways with a parent trying to find a gift for their teen.
But "every other kid" doesn't have it. I think that was their point.
We have never spent $500 on our entire family's Christmas presents, let alone one person or one present!
My twelve year bought herself an iPod with babysitting money, and we have a Wii only because my mother died and we inherited hers. None of us have ever owned an iPhone, or smart phone, or whatever they're called.
So yeah, it would make me feel "weird" to think of buying a stranger a $500 toy too, just because that's so different from how we operate ourselves.
That being said, I like what you said about the older kids in the giving tree. I will be sure to remember that.
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Has this thread reminded anyone else of The Muffin Tops episode of Seinfeld? :laugh:
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Please don't stop donating your weird and out of fashion stuff to Goodwill. I probably scoop it up when I stop by "just to drop off some stuff" every week or so.
If I worked in a church and somebody asked for an iPhone, I would never have assumed a donated one would be unacceptable and if it was, why didn't the recipient try selling it on Craigslist themselves?
I agree; was it supposed to be a bad thing that they asked if anybody had one that was just lying around that would be useful to somebody?
Also, why was the phone "junk"? Do old phones become useless just because they're old? Was it defective when it was purchased and the people who donated knew that? Did it just need a new battery?
Since no one in my family has owned an iPhone, I honestly don't know and can't really identify with the situation.
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How do you guys keep laundry baskets in the hallway? :confused1:
We wouldn't be able to walk up and down the hallway without constantly tripping over and/or kicking them.
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There's got to be a better way to do laundry around here.
Right now, we have five people in three bedrooms, and a laundry basket in each bedroom.
Once a week, one of the kids has the chore to gather all the dirty laundry, carry it downstairs, and dump it on the floor of the laundry room.
Then I sort it and work through the 4-5 loads of laundry.
The problems are:
1) My husband hates, absolutely hates the fact that there is a mound of dirty laundry on the floor between the time when the laundry is dumped and I am finished sorting and doing the 5 or so weekly loads. It says it looks like we're trailer trash.
2) Since it's rare that I get all five loads done in one day (or sometimes even two days!) that means that by the time I get to the last load or two, I have to either a) have a kids gather all the laundry from all the bedrooms and haul it down again (meaning another load dumped on the floor), or I go around and gather what I need for that load myself. Either option seems annoying and inefficient.
I know a lot of people say they have separate laundry baskets for different loads -- whites, etc -- then they don't have to worry about sorting and just dump in a load whenever it gets full.
I love this idea ...
... BUT I can't imagine all five of us -- certainly not the kids -- traipsing up and down stairs multiple times a day to go put our dirty laundry in the baskets. I think that would get old quickly, and I imagine that at a few people would just begin throwing the laundry on the floor most of the time.
Nor can I imagine there being 3+ laundry baskets in every bedroom! :huh:
Anyway, how does everyone else manage this -- especially if your laundry room is downstairs?? :confused1:
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I am sorry to say this.....but if I am honest....No.....Life of Fred is not enough for math on its own. It makes a nice (albeit very light) supplement to math, but it is not a complete math program. It doesn't give the depth that is needed for true math literacy IMHO.
This is interesting, because the author constantly claims, "I know of no homeschool math curriculum that contains more math than Life of Fred."
Yet people claim it's not enough.
Any comments on that?
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IMO, Fred is not enough. Disclaimer: I've only used the Fractions, Decimals, and Prealgebra 1 and 2 books, so I don't know how Fred would be for high school math. But I am strongly of the opinion that the Fred books intended for the middle grades are substandard (and are, in fact, the worst math books I've ever used).
Could you please elaborate more on these opinions? I am using Fred only for both my sixth and eighth grader. If I'm providing them both sub-standard math, I'd love to hear more details about why. Thanks.
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On a similar note, saw some "public school moms" post this video yesterday on Facebook, acting like it described them perfectly.
So that's how those school moms spend their time!
Personally, I so cannot relate to this in so many ways, I don't even know where to begin.
Jenny
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I think it's hilarious. I never heard of this woman, but now I want to check out what she's the author of, based on this photo. :)
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(((((((((((((((((((((((((Jenny)))))))))))))))))))))
I am so sorry that this happened to you. You are not a failure or a bad mom. The Hive has been a very healing place for me and I'm glad you found your way here too.
eta: we cross posted, so I realize now that the above is probably no news to you after six years of enduring that woman and her minions so I apologize for coming off as condescending, but I'm going to let it stand as is for the benefit of lurkers and future Hive members who might find it useful.
/Iron Ethel Flint
Thanks; no worries.
I didn't have problems with feeling "abused" so much as that I saw these people as having something I wanted -- joyful, peaceful, fun-filled homes where kids were inquisitive, did chores and ate vegetables on their own initiative, learned how to read and were very good at reading, yet never had a reading lesson ... parents never yelled or spanked ... other parents would say, "I wish my children were more like yours."
So I would read the stuff, and sometimes think, "They can't really mean that, right? They must be exaggerating," and I would struggle to reconcile it -- or, would think, "Well, I don't want my six year old to go to bed at two in the morning, but we can still be successful unschoolers ... right?"
The whole reason I "ended up" there was because I loved the idea of learning through "real" experiences," so the idea of unschooling intrigued me, and when I researched it, everybody and everything (just about) said that unschooling can't be successful unless you extend it to all areas -- eating, sleeping, etc. So I thought, "Okay, well, I really like the idea of unschooling ... how does that part work, exactly?" and so on.
I do have to say, as crazy as the quotes from my post above sound to most of us, these kids do seem to grow up and be productive.
I just looked up one of the families I quoted, and the oldest child has a bachelor's degree, a job in her field that she loves, and is working on a second degree. She creates her own crafts and is a seller on etsy.
Another one's child is a college professor and working on her PhD.
That's where I still don't "get it." It totally sounds like it would produce spoiled, lazy, uneducated kids with no initiative or life skills.
But apparently, it doesn't.
So I guess I'm missing something.
But it's okay, because I'm happy with what we are doing now, and my kids still get plenty of "real learning" despite me assigning schoolwork, having bedtimes, and insisting on them doing things around the house.
Anyway, my point in posting to this thread is that there are TONS of homeschoolers who subscribe very strongly to the philosophy the OP was hearing about. They are not just a few fringe or silly people.
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Your post was not about all unschoolers, so the word "some" would have to be added to this statement to make it true. Your post was about a subsection of unschoolers whom some call "unparenters" -- the radical unschoolers, or RUs. (other appellations probably exist, such as non-schooler)
But there are responsible and capable unschoolers. Of course.
My post was about several unschoolers who have written unschooling books.
It was about the list owners and most popular posters on the biggest unschooling groups and forums on the Internet.
It was about the speakers at many unschooling conferences.
There were all like my post above described, and all held to those mindsets.
Anything is always going to have exceptions. In this case, there were very, very few exceptions once in a great while. The other 99.9%, would quickly swoop in and spend large, large amounts of time trying to explain why this person was misguided, wasn't an unschooler, and/or was abusing their children.
The idea was that these "exceptions" didn't understand unschooling and needed to be helped and educated.
I was actively involved in the unschooling community for about six years. Yes, I'm a little embarrassed to say that. But I know what I'm talking about when I say that this is what the mindset of the unschooling community is like.
My thoughts a few months after cutting off all my hair
in The Chat Board
Posted
When I saw this thread I thought that you literally cut off all your hair -- ie, that you shaved it. :)
Looks cute! :)