cheryl h
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Posts posted by cheryl h
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The title says it all.....if you wanted to join Classical Conversations, what would you say is the oldest reasonable age to join without being overwhelmed?
How do you "catch up" if you haven't begun Latin yet, or have been studying a different period of history?
This was our first year with CC, dd14 is in Challenge B, ds12 is in Challenge A, and ds/dd9 are in Essentials. We had never studied Latin. Dd is pulling a B based on her weekly quiz scores, and ds a C+. Having not studied Latin before, I am ok with that knowing they will improve a lot next year. Looking at your signature, your kids are still very young. They would have no problems jumping in now, definitely not too late.
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Wow! So many things you all have given me to research and pray over. It is comforting to know that there are so many dealing with similar issues, and sad at the same time that there are so many other families dealing with a problem that takes so many forms and still has so much mystery in its causes and care. Thank you all for sharing your experiences and successes.
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Have you looked into Vayarin? I know someone who has had good results with that. It's considered a medical food so can often be covered by insurance.
Googled it...it's for ADHD..kids with severe hyperactivity and uncontrolled impulsive behavior. This would not be for my ADD kid.
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Have you looked into Vayarin? I know someone who has had good results with that. It's considered a medical food so can often be covered by insurance.
I have never heard of such a thing. Off to google it.
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Well I don't know where you live, but what if you look farther, or drive out of state? Seriously, around here the wait is 1 month for a good doc and 3-4 months for the most popular. There are docs who will do your intake and all the testing in one long day if you're driving a long way. Just might give you some options. I can see why you're feeling like you're in a pickle.
Has he had an OT eval for sensory? Have you tried caffeine? And do you already do the basics like eat clean, whole foods, a salad every day, etc.? People ask how flax oil does so much for us and didn't for them. It's because it was in a context. We already eat organic, with all fresh, homemade foods, a salad every dinner with poultry or fish, vegetables and grains for lunch, oatmeal/yogurt/fruit for breakfast, and fruit for snacks. I've seen diet changes like that make a huge difference with friends' kids too.
I am not excited about traveling that far for treatment as I am going through my own health issues as well. I am currently going through auto-immune testing and will here back about my labs on the 18th. That's one of the reasons why I wanted to pursue natural remedies for the ADD first, is depending on what my outcome is, I may have my kids tested as well if it is something with possible genetic origins, like celiac, which could if undiagnosed, affect a kid in this way. Once I get my results back, if it isn't something that could be genetic, than we possibly start his meds then. I am not hearing a lot of success with supplements alone, though we would do those as well as the meds. The ped explained that he should only have to take the meds on days he needs it for school, and hopefully the supplements would help enough that his non-school life would be improved also.
We do eat pretty clean here. I don't buy canned grocery items, either I can stuff from the garden or we eat fresh. We only eat game for red meat, lots of salmon caught in Alaska, though our chicken is not organic. We eat very little if any processed foods. As a general rule aspartame and red dye are not allowed, though they sneak in on occasion. The only thing I think we could do next that might have any benefits was eliminating what little refined sugar he does get or gluten.
Ugh. Why does life have to be so complicated?! I think I need a nap.
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Did you confirm that the np wait is indeed 6 months?
She said that had been the average wait lately.
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I am all for natural remedies, but from personal experience, my sd 17 was recently diagnosed with ADD (the inattentive type, not hyperactive) and meds have made a HUGE difference. I was very resistant to giving her meds and she didn't want to try them at all, but our whole family is so happy we finally gave them a try. It's taking a while to get the dosage just right, so be prepared that it might be take a while to get the meds right if you choose to go that route. She was fully evaluated, but she has some learning issues too, so we went that route. It was worth the time and cost for us to get a full evaluation.
Yes, there are some possible side effects (but your pediatrician should be able to discuss them with you), but the goal should be the most benefit with the least negative side effects.
Yes, the ped did discuss with me the side effects, and he would be monitored in office every 2 weeks for some time until the dosage was right and to make sure his weight and blood pressure were acceptable. She also discuss the need to change his diet so that the appetite problem didn't get away from us.
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Hey, sorry if I jumped all over you. I guess a red flag went up for me because of my own experiences. I still say someone more qualified in this field should see him even if it winds up being the same prescription. Just because then you know you checked out everything first. My oldest son had a bizarre reaction to Adderall; like a bi-polar episode. My 14 yo suddenly developed tachycardia which we are trying to figure if this was started from the meds or not. Maybe it didn't but these drugs are real and have real side effects that are problematic. So it is a very serious step to take.
I personally have never seen an increase in focus via anything we've done naturally. We tried fish oil for a while but I saw no change. Maybe we didn't try long enough. The thing is often the natural methods take months to work anyway. You could try them while you are waiting for the neuro-pysch. We were able to get into a neuropsychologist pretty quickly (a couple of weeks). We didn't have to wait six months. Some people swear by Feingold but lots of professionals do not think it really works. So it is all questionable and there are people who argue both ways in whether these things work. I have a book on my tbr pile called Healing the New Childhood Epidemics. However, it seems to see autism, ADHD allergies and asthma as all of one piece and my kids do not have the last two.
Does your son ever overfocus on things? Where you can't get his attention at all because he's completely absorbed? Because ADD isn't really a lack of attention so much as poorly regulated attention. So it swings wildly from uberfocus to completely clueless.
Yes, he can hyper focus on Legos, video games on the wii or Minecraft (which are both highly regulated here), and sports. He's very kinesthetic. I am reading ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life by Kolberg and Nadeau and they discuss this attribute of ADD a lot.
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Wow, without even giving you the CHANCE to decide if accommodations and the advice/information a neuropsych eval would give you, she wants you to go on meds FAST, immediately, like the world is going to END, for MILD ADD?!?! You did say MILD, right? Ok, I just realized you said *more* than mild. There's still a lot to sort through. It's winter and that he's probably been cooped up. MOST kids of that state are going a bit stir crazy. The neuropsych will give you more than just a label (if he's any good) and that info might change how you homeschool and that those changes MIGHT, just MIGHT change your whole perceived need for the meds.
So whatever. I'd get the neuropsych eval first. Is the world ending? How non-functional is he? Have you made environmental and structural changes and changes to your homeschooling? Have you done reading on adhd? Kids get misdiagnosed when all they've got is that profile questionaire. He could have something totally different going on (vision, CAPD), and you might find that you could make enough changes that you would decide you didn't need the meds at all. Get the eval.
And no, meds are more complicated than making him feel "back on track" and "successful". For some kids it does allow them to do school work, yes. And for some kids it's more like Tigger loses his bounce. I'm not anti-med. I'm just pointing out that they feed people lines like that it's normalizing brain function and that if you DON'T do it you're doing them a disservice, blah blah. Take your time and sort it out for yourself. Read, read, read. There's no need for a rushed decision, not with what you're saying is mild, and not in the middle of winter when people have been cooped up.
Come visit us over on the SN boards. Tons of book lists and advice, and actually I think we have a couple threads on this topic already. Flax oil, fish, yes it can make a radical difference for some kids.
BTW, you realize the inherent bias of all this? You said mild adhd. There's a sense in which these kids are totally NORMAL *for themselves*. There's a whole profile of brain dominance and how these kids work. Again, I'm not anti-meds. But it's just too extreme to look at them as broken and give them psych drugs to conform to a system for which they weren't BORN. The real trick is to understand who they ARE and work with them. Yes some kids need a lot more help, but you said mild. You change the situation, and the disability goes away. He's not BROKEN, just different. Do you look at Ansel Adams and say he was broken? World famous photographer. He was so adhd his mother gave up, brought him home from school, and plunked him in the wild with a camera. He just really needed to be who he was, not some bad, chemically-induced version of someone else.
It's just something to think through, how far accommodations and getting in sync with who he is, changing YOUR methods, not him, can get him, sans meds. Doesn't always get the dc all the way, but you don't know till you try.
I did NOT say mild, I said more than mild. In fact, I personally would categorize him as more than moderate. My more than mild comment was meant to distinguish him from those that are just suffering cabin fever, which I assure you what he is experiencing is not that, as we get out of the house a lot, he plays sports and is involved with extracurricular activities. I have another kid who I would categorize as mild, but I have not pursued treatment for her because I think she can learn habits that will help her with it.
I have taken your advise from previous posts about environmental factors, and book recommendations, and I assure you I have done research on how to make accommodations and environmental changes to help him, and nothing has worked. He has always had this problem, always, but now that he is getting older and the work is getting harder, it is becoming very obvious that this is an attention issue, not a maturity issue. He has gone from being a B student, to a D student this year...not because he doesn't know the grammar of his subjects, but because he can't stay focused long enough to complete the multi-stepped tasks this level requires. He has had his hearing and sight checked, and gone through speech therapy testing twice, and not qualified. His brain is going quicker than he can "output", and he loses his way. He has no behavioral issues at all, it is simply lack of attention. It affects more than just his academics, it affects his ability to do multi step processes of any kind, which leads him to be in a position of having to be "babysat" while doing personal hygiene, making lunch for himself, whatever...he can get past step one, or even finish step one most times. He knows he's got an issue, and it is extremely discouraging to him that he isn't able to do what he should be able to at his age.
I am not against him seeing the neuropsych, and i am sure our ped would have referred him if she felt it necessary. But I also don't see any reason to have to spend thousands on testing, for them to tell me what I know, and presribe the same Rx as the ped.
I am looking for advise on natural treatments before we try the med. I have no desire to wait 6 months or more to get into the neuropsych if I can help him now.
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I took my ds9 to the pediatrician yesterday, and after reviewing my observations and discussing it extensively with ds, she agreed that he probably has more than mild ADD. At this point she isn't sending us off to a psych for evaluation, as she thinks it will only make it that much longer to start treatment and he will slide further behind. She is a well respected DO, and does not readily prescribe meds of it's not necessary. She did recommend he start a very low dose med for the ADD, and assured me that it was very safe, in fact the dose wears off by noon if taken at breakfast. She also recommended an Omega 3-6-9.
My husband and I don't like the idea of meds, but if they will help him get back on track and feel successful, I would do it. We would rather use supplements, but if it only helps a little, than we would do both meds and supplements.
If you have tried supplements and had great results, please share your experience. If you have used other homeopathic remedies, what did you use and how effective was it?
Thanks so much for sharing your experience and wisdom.
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I have heard that if you write or email the manufacturer of your favorites and tell them how much you like their product, they will send you coupons.
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Thanks for all the other information. I've directed co-ops in our area the last 4 years. I wanted some classroom, social interaction time for my kids. When I couldn't find what I wanted I started my own programs. For 3 years I directed a co-op that was totally enrichment, special classes that met for 8 weeks each semester. They were all taught by the moms who were attending so we had no real costs involved, only supplies and a donation to the church we used. It worked well, but I did find that I wished it was more of the work we did at home and less enrichment. I also wanted it to feel a little more like it went all year long. We did have over 20 families with 60+ kids in attendance.
In talking to other moms I knew, several wanted to try IEW. I had gone through the TWSS program on my own and was trying AFF with my son. We decided to get together and go through SWI-A this year. We meet every other week. I teach the IEW class. A mom takes the K-2nd graders and is teaching a reading/writing class during IEW. The rest of the moms are taking turns doing a life skills class for the rest of the time we are there. I teach Biology labs for some high schoolers during that. Again, we don't pay to come other than supplies and a donation to the church. This is a smaller program with only a few attending.
I found someone else to take over my other co-op and left to start this one. I'm enjoying it, although the only thing for my high schooler is the Biology labs. The rest of them come just for that class, and there wasn't someone willing to teach a high school class during that first 1.5 hours. I don't know if the other high schooler's would even have time to come, though.
I like to make sure my kids are getting what they need outside of the home, and some other opportunities have shut down. Upward Basketball was cancelled at the church ds played before. The Christian school where dd sang in chorus lost their chorus teacher this year and found no replacement.
I will probably try to attend the meeting that is going to be next month.
Amy, we have similar aged kids, so I will tell you what our experience has been so far. This is our first year of CC. I have one kid in challenge b, one in challenge a, and two in essentials. My two essentials students have both used Rod and Staff previously, and EEL is plenty challenging. The fact that your dc have previously worked with IEW would be a bonus, as essentials moves at a very fast pace and is still challenging for those who were in it previous years. We have been very happy with what the challenge program has to offer, and have only felt like we needed to supplement only a little beyond their CC curriculum. We haven't yet participated in foundations because it was already full, but are registered for next year.
I do encourage you to not wait for an open house to visit a community. It will be very busy. Just contact the director and she will likely be more than willing to have you come anytime and then you can get all your questions answered without the distraction of other visitors. With your years of co-op leading experience you may consider tutoring, which helps immensely with tuition costs.
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We are considering CC for our family next yer. We have been happily using TOG for the past 4+ years, but I need a change -- and we all know how true it is: If mama ain't happy......
I think TOG has prepared my son for much of what is presented in Challenge I, but I do think that he will find the writing a challenge for him -- especially the frequency. I do think that the literature selections in Challenge I in general look pretty "easy" but after talking with the Challenge I tutor (and friend), I think what CC is doing with the literature is worthy of a 9th grade English credit.
Since my oldest has never been in CC before, there is a part of me that wonders if we should just do Challenge B next year. In general, I think my son is a good student (not great, not gifted, but a good B+/A- student) who is ready for high school.
I guess I am writing all this to ask if anyone with experience at the Challenge level can comment on the Challenge B vs 1 for high school 9th grade. What would need to be added to get to a high school level if we did B? BTW, we are already ahead of CC in science -- my son is about 1/2 way through physical science right in 8th grade.
These were exactly my thoughts last year as we contemplated the same thing...exactly. I really had a hard time choosing between challeng 1 and challenge b, but ended up deciding on challenge b and have not regretted it. We had not previously studied Latin either, and for that reason and logic, it has been a much better fit than challenge 1. The logic is hard. That is not to say that we didn't add a few things to my dd14s curriculum to make it more "9th gradish".
The cc literature selections are easier than I would have preferred, but the discussions and papers were not, i was pleasantly surprised. I ordered Notgrass World History to continue with history study and she is required by me to read the recommended literature assignments that go with it. She isn't writing the papers because she doesn't have time, but we talk about the lit and she does the history quizzes and tests for comprehension. That has rounded out literature for us quite nicely.
The science seminars are very good. The research papers have gone really well, but it has been hard to get past the "we need to be doing labs" mentality. Truthfuly, this is the type of research that should be incorporated in science learning, but there just isn't time to do it all, but they are learning it here, they are learning the concepts well as they learn more about the scientists. Again, since I can't leave well enough alone...she is slowly working her way through Apologia biology at home...with the labs ;) So by the time this year is over she will have learned great research skills, introductory chemistry, and half a year of biology. Next year in challenge 1 she will get further reinforcement of physical science(that she took in 8th) and finish biology, so that she will have a good foundation of science before we send her off to do dual enrollment.
I do think she is the only kid in her class that has extra work at home, but all of them have been in CC for several years and are in it for the long haul. My motives for her to do CC were strictly for the group atmosphere, discussions, debate, and presentations. Stuff I simply can not replicate at home. I needed the support too. It is very non traditional and doesn't fit neatly into the transcript boxes, but it has worked out great so far.
Another thing that would make a big, and I mean huge difference is the class dynamic and the tutor. Some tutors are more demanding than others, dd has an excellent tutor. I could see that had she had a more lax tutor, I would not be nearly as satisfied. Also the ages of the kids in the class can be a factor. Dd's class has mostly 9th grade aged students with a small handful of younger kids. If the class would have been all younger kids, again, I don't think I would have chose that. Visit the class and get to know the tutor, then visit the challenge a class to scope out what kids might be in challeng b next year.
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Thanks. I am compiling a list of all the suggested books. Lots of reading coming my way! :)
It was suggested to me from someone on these boards to read some of Dr. Mel Levine's books. I read his book "The Myth of Laziness" and it was very good. He goes through many examples of different people with different executive function issues, explaining how those issues have effected their lives and what their success in adulthood might look like if it is addressed, and then if it isn't. It discusses both kids and adults suffering these issues. I found it very insightful in understanding the executive function problem as a whole. He also has other books, I think "No Mind Left Behind" is one. I didn't find him to be one that would immediately default to meds, more advise was given on how to rearrange your life and habits to accomadate the issues, though he does talk about cases where he thought it truly necessary
This morning I am diving into "ADD-Friendly Ways to Organize Your Life" by Judith Kolberg and Kathleen Nadeau.
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My daughter was pretty spacey at that age but nothing like this. Not able to follow 2 -step directions?
Thanks for the reminder to be sensitive. I try really hard to not make him feel bad. DH has a really hard time with it. He is a very sensitive child and I know it hurts him.
I know exactly what your talking about, happening here with ds9. Smart kid, multi step anything is not happening...from personal care tasks...to school...and he is coming up with the same negative comments about being stupid, and it simply isn't true. It is so, so hard to convince him otherwise. The one thing that has helped is to be more intentional about discussing anything that's of issue, privately. No siblings around, period and sometimes not even dh as doesn't want to disappoint him. The exposure of these faults to other people is the worst.
I have found it very hard to find info on attention issues that doesn't take you straight to ADHD driven behavioral problems. We have started a referral process for testing, but that will be a long process and we are determined to do everything possible before resorting to medication. I have had some medical problems of my own lately that have inspired me to look more at his diet. There have been a lot of threads lately about gluten and other allergens affecting kids' behavior and how well they can focus. Many of these things create a "brain fog" so to speak. An elimination diet or more clean diet might be worth a try. Our pediatrician also mentioned sleep disorders as something to investigate, you need good sleep to focus. Have you investigated diet and sleep problems yet? I wish you the best.
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Are you sure? 3 years ago my daughter was able to take a couple classes each term at the middle school without enrolling. I think their maximum was 2 or 3. It is up to the policy of your district - which means if they don't allow it, you can push for them to change their rules.
Yes, it is true. If you chose to hs fresh, soph, and junior years...going back to ps your senior year...they would enroll you as a freshman, period. If you went part-time, you only get credit for what you do in the public system. What you do for middle school doesn't matter, as those credits do not count on a high school transcript.
It is this exact scenario that has me awake at night. Our plans of enrolling dd14 in the dual enrollment program at age 16 might have to change if changes are made to those programs. This scares me to death. All our eggs are in that basket. We have chosen CC for her in the mean time for social and academic support, but we never would have chosen it for all 4 years of high school. We are only half way into her fresh year and I am terrified of having to hs all four years instead of the first two. Deep breaths, deeeeeep breaths.
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We are currently on a Minecraft/wii ban till the end of the month. It's just too hard getting back into the swing of things from the holidays competing with these. I am only allowing educational tv if all school, music practice, and chores are done...and only because I am dealing with a chronic illness and don't have the energy to fight over it. We are actually re-entering school life well. I think we will do this every September and January.
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Our dentist left them for awhile, then suggested pulling them. When my daughter balked, we waited another 6 months. And then another. She eventually had them pulled, but it wasn't a big deal. At that point, there was no root. They did it with a topical anesthetic. By that time, the teeth had broken into shards so they weren't getting pushed out at all.
I think she was 13 at the time. Maybe it could have been done sooner, but the dentist wasn't really pushing it.
This happened to us too, multiple times with our oldest. The baby teeth stick around until they resemble snail shells, then either have to be removed by a dentist or shatter into pieces and have to be dug out of her gums...by a dentist. I am not happy with how much money we have had to spend having the dentist remove baby teeth. In none of these cases were the baby teeth hindering the placement of the permanent teeth though. It's one of those things I've had to add to the "things people can not foresee ever having to spend money on" or "things people don't tell you about parenting" lists.
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A few thoughts about ADHD: there are so many issues that can look like ADHD that if it seems focus is the most significant issue, it may be worth actually finding out if that is the case or if there is some other issue at play. In addition, while some accommodations may be helpful (I would not view them as concessions), if he were to be actually diagnosed with ADHD, at some point I'd consider whether more significant help is necessary in the form of supplements, possible medication, etc. In any event, with a bright sibling, if you go down the path of exploring LDs, I'd want a tester experienced with twice-exceptional kids (bright with LDs), and I wouldn't accept a diagnosis of ADHD without full IQ testing. If he has an LD, it would be important for his self-esteem to understand that and to do what is possible to help overcome/work around that. The Learning Challenges board is a good place to ask questions.
So he hasn't been diagnosed ADHD yet but we have started that conversation with his dr. He has been tested for speech issues twice and didn't qualify for therapy. He has garbled speech in general conversation, but has to slow down and repeat himself to get it out clearly because his mind is racing much faster than he can speak. He also isn't in the category of ADHD kids who have behavioral issues. From what we can see, his sleep is affected because his brain won't shut down enough to sleep well, and he can't focus during seat time.
I would reconsider next year's plan to use Saxon for a kid who has potential attention issues. I'd look for something with shorter lessons.
Thank you for that thought. Do you have another recommendation? I may out of financial necessity keep with the Saxon plan since I already have it, but possibly go through one book in 2 years and throw in some Life of Fred for a fun change of pace.
ETA- I just mutilated your beautiful multi-quote with my responses...sorry.
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I agree. Add in the fact that his sister is apparently going to be doing Saxon but at a higher level and it seems like a no brainer to ditch it for another program.
I think it's one thing to be in a big class with a bunch of other kids and see yourself constantly ranked with grades and with the same assignments - things go up and down, different teachers have different expectations, classes change from year to year, etc. And something else entirely to be in the same grade with one other person, using the same materials, with the same teacher, year after year. I generally think homeschooling has the clear edge over school in nearly every way, but I think in this particular way, for multiples, we have to take steps to combat the inevitable sense of comparison that arises under those circumstances.
Yes...if they had been singles..we could have easily kept him back a year and started him in K when he was 6. We were heavily advised to not do that, and I think that was a good decision for the most part, but because we homeschool there is not a good reason that I can think of that should keep us from using different curriculum to suit his needs.
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Thank you so much for your thoughtful and helpful responses. Though changing curriculum this year isn't financially going to happen, I will probably sit down and see what we can do with what we have to help him be more successful. I foresee them testing into different Saxon levels next year after we finish abeka 4 for math, and I'll have to figure out something else for spelling. I have tried giving him a few ADHD concessions, like letting him stand while working or holding a highly textured object while he works, but that didn't seem to make a difference. I will keep trying to find methods that help him with his focus. As far as i can tell, the attention span is the biggest problem for him. He knows much of the grammar of his subjects, but has a very hard time keeping focused in any multi-step process. Everything about math and English at this point is multi-steps. I have had them both at the table with me all day, so her quickness and accuracy are ever present to him. She probably needs her own work space away from him. Ok...off to figure it out. I welcome any further responses....thanks so much.
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I have two fourth graders (ds9/dd9) who will be 10 this spring. Though we have been able to keep them both in the same grade so far, it has become increasingly obvious that ds9 will not be able to keep this pace much longer, and dd9 is capable of work above her grade level but we haven't pressed on in an effort to not damage ds' self esteem. Ds9's grades (math, spelling, reading comp, English grammar) have gone from B's to C's and dd's grades are at almost 100 for everything. He tends to have some ADHD tendencies and has a hard time focusing and the effects it has on his work frustrate him terribly. He constantly compares himself to his sister and calls himself stupid, even if I encourage him that he is doing his best. All this to say, I just have no idea on how to meet them both where they are at and not cause emotional turmoil for him. Please advise.
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Loved, loved, loved our kitchen aid. The bowl broke after being mishandled multiple times by dc, and wished I could find another since the base/motor still work great after 14 yrs. No luck finding one so far. I have seen them reasonably priced at Costco, so I may just get one. Hope you find a good one. Every cook/chef on tv uses a cuisinart, that might be worth researching.
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I don't know where you are located, but you may have to just be a little chilly at the start of your run because it won't take long to get warm. I find this time of year I always put on another layer, just to take it off in just a few minutes and regret having even bothered with the extra layers. If you've been running with a tshirt and shorts, maybe just adding longer bottoms to start. Then go from tshirt to long sleeve tech shirt. I find it's more comfortable to change my base layer to something with more coverage, than to have multiple layers to manage. Depending on how cold it gets in the fall where you are, you may find that long sleeves and pants with gloves will be enough. It's amazing how much warmer you feel, just by having the gloves. Nice job at sticking with your running.
Oldest recommended age to begin Classical Conversations?
in General Education Discussion Board
Posted
I would feel very good choosing Challenge B. It won't be too easy, trust me. If he has never studied Latin, he will be very busy with that, the logic is not at all easy, and the amount of writing they do is substantial. The only thing I felt was close to light was the reading selections for lit, but the papers they do and the discussions are not. The difficulty level, or how challenging it is will come down to the tutor. I can not emphasize more how key it is to having a good tutor, especially for the high school years. Visit the class several times. If you think it really won't meet his needs, look into tutoring Challenge 1. We did do some supplementing, and if you would like to hear more about that, pm me.