how do you explain AP (what is ap)

[lwj]

I was asked to explain a while back what are the ap classes my boys are taking. I explained that ap courses are a freshman college course spread out over a year with a standardized test given at the end of the year. If you get a 3, most colleges consider that an A in an honors class; 4-5 are acceptable depending on the institution for an A in college course.

Is that the correct answer?

:confused:I know there are exceptions (calculus bc is credit for more than one college course) but lately when I have been reading different things on the web and on this board I keep seeing two things- Ap is harder than the college course and CLEP is not as prestigious. How can that be? What am I missing?

thanks!!

lisaj

[Gwen in VA]

What a given AP score is "worth" at a given college varies tremendously.

 

A good AP score definitely shows that

1) the student is capable of advanced work;

2) the student is taking the "most rigorous course available" (a term found on the guidance counselor section of many college applications).

 

Beyond those two statements, I'm not sure that much more can be said that is true for all students, all AP's, and all colleges.

[Jane in NC]

It seems that whether an institution gives credit or not is completely variable. And I don't just mean from college to college but test to test.

 

Consider AP Biology. Some schools give one semester's credit for a 4 or a 5. Others give one semester's credit for a 5 only. Recently I noted a school that gave two semester's credit for a 4 or 5. When we spoke to an admissions officer at Lehigh a year ago, we were told that that school did not give credit for the Bio exam--a decision made by the Biology department as is their prerogative.

 

It is my understanding that schools give credit but not a grade for the course in which a student has "passed" the AP. This is often painted as one of the disadvantages of AP: students will not have some easier As in their grade point averages from those basic courses.

 

I have never heard a 3 on the exam as comparable to an A in an honors course. Perhaps one of our current or former college admissions officers on this board can weigh in on that one.

 

AP is comparable to a college version of an introductory course. Whether it is "harder" is questionable. The examination philosophy is different which perhaps makes AP more challenging. In a typical college course a student will have a couple of tests throughout the semester. A final exam (often cumulative) in an introductory course is usually worth 25 to 40 percent of the grade. An AP score is determined by a test that is given in a three hour time slot--period. I think that the pressure to perform is really turned on in AP.

 

CLEP offers a variety of exams, some recognized by some colleges. Other institutions do not recognize any of the CLEP exams.

 

One final reminder is that colleges regularly alter their policies. A school that accepted a certain score on an AP or CLEP last year may not next year. No guarantees.

[mcconnellboys]

Yes, schools seem to be in flux right now as to what's acceptable. Some schools will accept AP as college credit, some will not.

[mcconnellboys]

I'm wondering if one reason CLEP's are falling into disfavor might be because they are multiple choice tests? Do they contain an essay component at all, as AP's do?

[Gwen in VA]

IF your kids score well on AP's

IF your kids attend a college that accepts their AP's

IF your child is comfortable skipping the intro courses in college

 

THEN AP's are an absolutely amazing deal.

 

My kids both entered with nearly 20 credits due to AP exams and managed to use their various AP scores to fulfill almost all of the gen ed requirements. For them, the AP credits have been a huge blessing. One is double-majoring and one is triple-majoring, and they are both able to do this EASILY due to all of their AP credits.

 

Different students will have different experiences, but my kids definitely belong to the group "AP worked for us!"

[G5052]

I took "a pile" of AP course back then, and had my first college (a private liberal arts and business college) give me about 3/4 of a year of credit. They only gave credit for APs, no other exam. Then I transferred to another college (a public all-technical one) that didn't grant ANY credit for APs or any other exam other than a passing grade on the actual final for a particular course. I had to fight to not be forced to take English 101-102 after getting credit for those at the previous college. We finally compromised because I took technical writing via extension during the summer before I started there.

 

Neither college accepted CLEPs.

 

:D

[Kathy in MD]

I'm wondering if one reason CLEP's are falling into disfavor might be because they are multiple choice tests? Do they contain an essay component at all, as AP's do?

 

I'm wondering if their lower popularity is for other reasons. They're older and not as "in", and there isn't a fancy, "branded" class to take as prep.

[Sandra in NC]

I'm wondering if one reason CLEP's are falling into disfavor might be because they are multiple choice tests? Do they contain an essay component at all, as AP's do?

 

I don't think CLEPs are falling into disfavor at all! In fact I see demand for them growing. Over 2900 colleges and universities accept CLEP - usually, the same colleges that accept "3's" on APs also accept CLEP. The schools that only accept 4's and 5's on APs usually don't. There is no age requirement for CLEP and scores are valid for 20 years.

 

With few exceptions they are multiple choice exams -- 90 minutes long. They are offered throughout the year and generally do not take as much prep as AP. My 16yo is going to study for the Sociology CLEP (seems to be one of the most accepted CLEP subjects) this summer. NC State - a competitive school - accepts this CLEP as well as Microeconomics. I hope my son can CLEP out of both of these before starting college. He wants to be an engineer and I'd like him to get as many of the extraneous credits out of the way so he can have a lighter course load and focus on the engineering-related subjects.

 

If your student subscribes to College Board's MyRoad program, there is an SAT/AP/CLEP page for each school that shows the CLEPs accepted. Feel free to PM me and I'll look up the school's policy for you if you don't have MyRoad.

 

As the cost of college increases, CLEP will become more popular. Already, our testing center appointments fill up within days of being posted. In many cases, 3 college credits is 3 college credits whether it's AP or CLEP.

 

My son will have done both. Now that I know he's interested/committed to a state school that accepts CLEP, I'm excited about the prospect of his being able to earn credits during the summer in addition to his year-long AP classes.

[Jane in NC]

I don't think CLEPs are falling into disfavor at all! In fact I see demand for them growing. Over 2900 colleges and universities accept CLEP - usually, the same colleges that accept "3's" on APs also accept CLEP. The schools that only accept 4's and 5's on APs usually don't. There is no age requirement for CLEP and scores are valid for 20 years.

 

<snip>

 

As the cost of college increases, CLEP will become more popular. Already, our testing center appointments fill up within days of being posted. In many cases, 3 college credits is 3 college credits whether it's AP or CLEP.

 

 

To be fair, it should be noted that NCSU accepts no CLEP credits for composition, literature, foreign language, or business. There are selected courses in social science for which they will give credit as well as math. Biology, maybe. Chemistry, no.

 

It sounds like Sandra's son has a strategy to fulfill some of the basic check list requirements in order to focus on an engineering degree. In this circumstance, this may be a good use for CLEP. But not all students are as confident on where they will be going to school and what they will be studying. Is CLEP a good utilization of their time? Some seem to suggest that CLEP verifies a mommy grade, but I have not heard whether college admissions people agree.

 

I have known CLEP credits to be popular among older students and military personnel who are trying to expedite their degrees. But I am not sure if they are growing in popularlity--either among students or among the colleges which accept credit for the tests. My reading suggests that colleges are tightening the screws and are less liberal in giving credits based on testing than in the past.

 

As usual, your experience may prove otherwise. Check with the college.

Jane

[lwj]

Based on what I'm reading from the responses, you don't give a grade for an AP test. I taught my son Honors literature; gave him a grade; and then we practiced and took the test. Why would he not get a grade for the class? My 9th grade son took a course for Ap physics, got no grade and his taking the test right now, but I wasn't worried about that as his practce tests are in the high 4/low 5 range. He want's to get into Princeton at this point. Am I doing him a disservice?

Thanks again!

LisaJ

[Jane in NC]

You (as the high school teacher) give a grade, but that grade does not transfer into your student's college record. The grade is recorded on the high school transcript only. Appearing on the college transcript is whether credit was given. The hours count to graduation but do not affect the GPA.

 

(Help me someone. Have I stated this clearly?)

[kate in seattle]

I think you were quite clear.

 

The teacher (whether mom, or outsourced) gives a grade for the class that prepares a student to take the AP exam.

 

The AP exam score (1 - 5) is what is transmitted to colleges and will earn (or not) advanced placement or credit.

 

There might be some small confusion about what qualifies as an AP course. You can only call a course "AP Bio" if the syllabus has been approved by College Board ( and I know homeschool moms have gotten such approval). However you can call your course "Advanced Biology", "Honors Biology" or whatever and your student can take the AP test.

 

Another point I haven't seen discussed here is the difference between advanced placement and earned credits. Some colleges (continuing to use Bio as the example) will let student 'skip' Introductory Biology, with a good enough test score, and go to the next class, but the student may not get credit for the intro class. All of this is so dependent on the college and the department.

 

I think AP tests are great for outside verification and proof of rigour. How much money/time they save an individual student depends completely on the college.

 

And, to answer OP's original question. I would say "An AP class is a introductory college level class in a subject, taught in a high school, but generally to college standards. At the end of the year a student may take an AP test; the test score, if good enough, can often be used for advanced placement or credit when the student attends college. As homeschoolers, it also provides outside verification of our academic standards."

 

Blessings,

[lwj]

:)

[mcconnellboys]

You know, now that I think of it, I tested out of freshman level English and took a distance Old English lit course before I entered my college full time. When I got there, it took me half a semester to find out who to speak with about whether this would be honored at that school. I was finally told 'no', but they put me in an honors English course and told me that if I made a 'B' or better, I was finished. So that was the end of that. Weird.

 

Just remember, the more time you spend with a school, the more money you spend with a school. It makes sense that they'd not want to give you credit for money spent elsewhere if they don't have to.....

[KAR120C]

There might be some small confusion about what qualifies as an AP course. You can only call a course "AP Bio" if the syllabus has been approved by College Board ( and I know homeschool moms have gotten such approval). However you can call your course "Advanced Biology", "Honors Biology" or whatever and your student can take the AP test.

Just wanted to add that it's not as hard as one might think to get approval, even as a homeschooler. You do have to read their guidelines and write a good long syllabus that explicitly meets all the requirements, but I just did one this week that only took a day to get back with approval. It took longer to write the syllabus, but really it was just the table of contents from the three sources we're using (divided up by topical units that matched the required topics), and an explanation of the project I'm requiring and how it met the additional requirement of "connecting the various topics". In the end it was eight pages long! But definitely not rocket science. :)