What do you think about Joel Osteen?

[Spy Car]

It is a testament to the income generating abilities of Mr Osteen (the younger) that he can spend $100 million on his new worship center, and still have money left over to feed the hungry.

 

Laurie does have a point, faith without works is dead. We don't need the Bible to tell us that (the point is beyond "obvious"), but it does.

 

Bill

[mazakaal]

Of course, I haven't seen the whole Larry King interview or any of Mr. Osteen's sermons, but I don't think we can judge by a 70 second clip.

 

Here's a 9 minute segment from 60 Minutes that may give you a bit more of an idea about him.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv8FwssTGCg&feature=related

[Laurie]

It is a testament to the income generating abilities of Mr Osteen (the younger) that he can spend $100 million on his new worship center, and still have money left over to feed the hungry.

 

 

 

Yes it is. He is, after all, a commoner and not a king. Did you know that the Hassan II mosque in Casablanca cost about a billion dollars to build? I don't know how many people are hungry in Morocco but the mosque is breathtakingly beautiful.

[Dianne-TX]

I believe he is a fake. A motivational speaker running under the label of preacher. I firmly believe he is one of those detours that exists. The wrong path. Just like the many detours in "Pilgrims Progress". He is a to full of himself and stuff. He is bad news.

 

:iagree:

[Dianne-TX]

No, I am hard on him because he is an example of 2 Timothy 4, "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires" and I feel sorry for him because James 3:1 says "Let not many of you become teachers, my brethren, knowing that as such we will incur a stricter judgment."

 

Being a minister is not something to be taken lightly and the Bible has already told us that our "best lives" are NOT "now"....they will be in Heaven.

 

:iagree:

[Laurie]

Here's a 9 minute segment from 60 Minutes that may give you a bit more of an idea about him.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv8FwssTGCg&feature=related

 

This was shocking beyond belief. If people are changing their lives for the better and feel that their marriages have been saved, they've overcome addictions, etc. then surely this man is a scoundrel of the highest order.

[Heather in Neverland]

What do you take issue with in this:

http://www.joelosteen.com/About/WhatWeBelieve/Pages/WhatWeBelieve.aspx

 

Have you read any of his books? Where exactly is he promoting sinful behavior? Certainly you're not suggesting that a "good Christian" must be full of self-hatred and shame?

 

You are jumping to conclusions. I did not say he is "promoting" sinful behavior...just not acknowledging it and proclaiming the gospel which is to REPENT and believe. And no, a Christian should NOT be full of self-hatred and shame because that is denying the saving work of Christ. What I am saying is that he is skipping over the reason WHY we need salvation and going straight to how we can feel better about ourselves.

 

Yes I have read is "Best Life Now" book and I have seen him on TV MANY times. I don't have a problem with their statement of faith (except possibly the definition of "abundant" life). But it is only that ...a statement. It is NOT what he preaches on TV. He avoids discussion of the sinfulness of man's heart and our need for a redeemer. He makes people believe that the reason they need Christ is so that their marriage can be better or their job or their parenting or their relationships, etc.

 

Perhaps these things will better after you accept Christ, but often they are NOT. And "God isn't as interested in our happiness as he is our Character." Watch this and you will get a better feel for what I mean (it's short :D): http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/myvideo/photo.php?lid=178

[LanaTron]

I apologize from the outset that this gets a little disjointed...I don't really have time to say everything I want to say, or really flesh it out.

 

My mother, dh, and I started attending Lakewood not too long after Joel took over the church. We attended the church during the move from the northeast Houston location to it's current location, and stuck with it about a year after that.

 

At the time we started attending, I was in a very deep depression. In 6 months time, dh and I had experienced, in order: a job loss, the birth of our 4th dc, the death of my grandmother, a move from one side of the state to the other, a second job loss, my surgery. At that time I really didn't even think there was a God. I never actually attempted suicide, because I had 4 babies depending on me (my oldest was only 7), but I sure felt that life was pointless, and I sure wished I could go ahead and die.

 

Attending Lakewood church changed that for me. The first time I went, I was determined not to like it. After about a month, I actually uncrossed my arms and started standing up during the singing. I was at a point that Ineeded the feel good stuff. I don't think hearing about sin and salvation would have given me any hope or done anything but turn me off from God further.

 

But for the first time I experienced the presence of God in a church, especially during the praise and worship part of the services. I learned for the first time just how much God loves me, even though I've spent plenty of time in churches. Through many months of hearing how much God loves me, and lots of prayer, I was brought out of that pit I was in.

 

Through my experiences at Lakewood, coupled with past church experiences and my own thought processes, I have come to truly belive that I am a sinner and that Jesus died and was resurrected to reconcile me with God. Even though Joel doesn't spend a lot of time on that, I did really fully come to understand that concept while I was attending Lakewood.

 

The good that Joel preaches is to rely on God for everything, that God is good, loves us and wants the best for us, and can take anything and turn it around for good. Lakewood teaches to remember God in everything we do, to consecrate and bless the people and things around us in His name. At least, that's what I took away from there.

 

I don't, however, agree with the prosperity stuff, which is a big reason why we eventually stopped attending. It always bothered me to hand over our money, when we were barely scraping by, to this family that lives in a million dollar home. Okay, so I'm not giving Joel and Victoria the money; once his first book became a best-seller he stopped taking a salary from the church. But I am more of a social justice person, so anyone having that much money or house really baffles me when there is so much suffering in the world. I like to think that if I had that kind of money, I wouldn't have it, because I would give it away and still live a very basic life. Who knows, maybe I wouldn't, but I like to think I would.;)

 

I also started feeling a need for more tradition and ritual than Lakewood offers.

 

And dh lost his job again, and ended up waiting tables to support us. He really needed to work Sundays, as that was one of the big money making days, so we stopped driving all the way into Houston, and started attending the Methodist church in our town (which, unfortunately, we haven't been to in a while either).

 

Anyhow...

 

I don't think Joel is a fake, at least from the perspective of whether he believes in what he says. I think he really believes in what he's doing. But I do wonder what would happen if, for example, things started crumbling financially at Lakewood. I wonder what he would preach then, and I wonder how his and Victoria's marriage would fare.

 

I do think that at Lakewood, as with any church, one has to be skeptical, thoughtful, and prayerful in discerning the truth, and discerning what it is that God really wants from us.

[Liz CA]

Big teeth, though. This best sums up my feelings for him:

 

 

:lol::lol::lol:

[Sputterduck]

 

I think both of them are nuts. Out of their minds. Yikes.

[Rich with Kids]

Joel Osteen...Why is the only symbol he has on his "church" is fire? Just sayin...:D

 

 

 

[Liz CA]

Since I have not finished Osteen's book nor have I been able to see any videos of him on my home computer (sloooow connection) I will have to preface my comment with this:

 

IF he is part of the Prosperity Movement and IF he is a typical representative of those beliefs then he has some very good points to his message but also leaves out some very vital things.

 

It's a little like he is selling part of the package but not the complete package. As I mentioned in my first post, I read a few snatches of his book and nodded to myself, then I reached another page and scratched my head.

 

I don't think God wants us to live in shame and doubt, however neither does he want us to think so highly of ourselves that we cannot imagine a life without wealth - earthly goods that is. Many wonderful Christians have lived a life of poverty on this earth but have not cared because they valued spiritual wealth more. One person that comes to mind is Mother Theresa, there are many other missionaries around the world that don't live in earthly prosperity. Should they be considered as not living the "abundant life"? If Osteen would answer this question with a "yes", then I'd wonder about him.

 

[Liz CA]

You really made several good points.

God knows our needs. When you felt so low, He knew you needed encouragement and not fire and brimstone preaching.

 

You also point out how we need to discern and explain your reservations about a few things. This is exactly what I mean.

 

It's not all bad but it's perhaps not all complete or even correct. This does not negate the good but it's lacking a few important aspects to make the picture whole.

 

I will check out Paul Washer - another person I haven't heard of. This is what comes of living waaay out in the middle of nowhere with 2 TV channels and dial-up connection.

 

 

[Sputterduck]

How does Osteen interpret the Beatitudes? What does he have to say to Christ's promise that those who follow Him will suffer, to Christ's lack of a place to lay His head (even while the foxes have dens)?

 

I've never heard Osteen, but these are a couple of questions that have been good top-line clarifiers.

 

 

I think he ignores that part of the Bible.

[Blessedfamily]

I have a dear friend who was brought up in the Word of Faith movement. She knows them all. Joel Osteen is at the top of her list.

 

BTW, after seeing her family keep getting baptized because the weren't prospering and having family members tell other family members their terminal illnesses were their own fault and their parents' fault, df is now an atheist.

 

Even before meeting my friend I considered Joel Osteen a very, very dangerous man and now I think even more so.

 

This is where I'm confused. The prosperity preaching I've run across teaches that God wants everyone rich and healthy and living long lives....and if you aren't you're doing something wrong. He must not be one of those, because how then would he account for his father's illness and passing?

[FO4UR]

I have seen a church split over this topic...it was more involved than that, but boiled down to "are we going to have ear tickling or preaching?" The pastor who began it all held to the "Word of Faith"....Joel Olsteen and others.

 

What shocks me is the amount of card-carrying Christians who have been warming pews since infancy and yet have ZERO knowledge of God's Word! They like a pastor, like his personality and will follow him like sheep to the slaughter.

 

In my experience, the people who loved this pastor and followed him, never questioned him -NEVER cracked open their Bibles during his sermons. I sang in the choir so I saw everyone LOL:tongue_smilie: The men and women who looked confused, flipping through pages, trying to find where he got this point and that point are the ones who eventually came to him with a Biblical defense and left.

 

 

Let it be a reminder to READ, and TEST every word preached from the pulpit or written by an author who claims Christianity. :001_smile:

 

The book of Jude reads like current events;)

[OnTheBrink]

I have seen a church split over this topic...it was more involved than that, but boiled down to "are we going to have ear tickling or preaching?" The pastor who began it all held to the "Word of Faith"....Joel Olsteen and others.

 

What shocks me is the amount of card-carrying Christians who have been warming pews since infancy and yet have ZERO knowledge of God's Word! They like a pastor, like his personality and will follow him like sheep to the slaughter.

 

In my experience, the people who loved this pastor and followed him, never questioned him -NEVER cracked open their Bibles during his sermons. I sang in the choir so I saw everyone LOL:tongue_smilie: The men and women who looked confused, flipping through pages, trying to find where he got this point and that point are the ones who eventually came to him with a Biblical defense and left.

 

 

Let it be a reminder to READ, and TEST every word preached from the pulpit or written by an author who claims Christianity. :001_smile:

 

The book of Jude reads like current events;)

 

It does indeed. :iagree:

[Free Indeed]

He is king of the prosperity gospel and...to be honest...he makes my skin crawl.

 

:iagree: My thought exactly.

[Karen sn]

He sure does smile a lot.

[momof2boys]

I am not a fan of his either.

[Blessedfamily]

After all these comments, I will definately try to watch his broadcast tomorrow. I've never heard him preach a sermon.

[Free Indeed]

Guess this was not a controversial topic after all- we all agree! ;)

[Blessedfamily]

Guess this was not a controversial topic after all- we all agree! ;)

 

Errrrrr... Could that be because anyone who follows him is feeling a bit sheepish about posting to this thread? :tongue_smilie:

[Melissa in CA]

He is king of the prosperity gospel and...to be honest...he makes my skin crawl.

 

:iagree: One half of my family is into his type of "theology" and they are a complete mess. No Christian fruit (or prosperity!) to be found after years and years and YEARS of this teaching. The other half are conservative Sovereign Grace Christians (Calvinists) and fruit and love abound in very large quantities. They genuinely love the Lord, not what the Lord can do for them.

 

The Wof movement goes from one heresy to another to another...an ever changing gospel with only glimpses of the Truth. I grew up in it, my parents and other family members are still a part of it. I unfortunately know what I'm talking about. It wasn't until I met my husband and his wonderful family that I learned the Truth.

 

The serpent was apparently quite motivational when speaking with Eve in the Garden. I'm sure what he said was wonderfully enlightening to her. I mean, goodness, why couldn't she eat that perfectly healthy, yummy, eye-appealing fruit? :blink:

 

"So [even after God told her not too] when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit and ate..." Gen 3:6

 

Yeah, I'd say unbiblical motivational speaking can get people to do and believe all sorts of things contrary to the word of God.

 

I recommend you steer clear of him and his kind. Seriously. :glare:

[mommaduck]

psycho-bable, warm fuzzy, it's all about YOU!, and sin isn't sin, they are just "mistakes".

[katemary63]

family members tell other family members their terminal illnesses were their own fault and their parents' fault, df is now an quote]

 

This is simply heinous! I sat in the pew of my SIL's family's church, one Sunday, as her pastor of 20 years called forward a man with severe kidney failure. His condition was thought to be terminal and he was on a waiting list for a transplant. He could barely walk up. The pastor yelled, flailed and "healed" the guy and afterward, looked him right in the eye in front of hundreds of people and said words to this effect, "Now, you ARE healed if you have the faith to be healed. If you continue to be sick after tonight, it is because YOU don't have enough faith. YOU don't believe!"

I was sick to my stomach and nearly in tears. What a heresy. I wanted so badly to tell this sick and probably dieing man the beautiful things that Christ wanted him to know. How much he was loved. How God would never leave him. How God would care for his family through this difficulty and how, no matter when he died, soon or distant, that he had paradise to look forward to. I would also pray for him to be healed and believe that God could and would do it if it was best for His plan.

How on earth do these people explain Paul's "thorn?" Who could possibly have more faith then Paul? Yet Paul was NOT healed and God's grace was sufficient.

[Sahamamama]

He is king of the prosperity gospel and...to be honest...he makes my skin crawl.

 

:iagree: Heather said it so well...

[Marylou]

 

he has some very good points to his message but also leaves out some very vital things.

 

It's a little like he is selling part of the package but not the complete package.

 

 

 

I agree with what Michael Horton wrote about Osteen in his book Christless Christianity.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Guess what the missing part is? :glare:

[Hedgehogs4]

he's a heretic. a new ager in "church" clothes.

[Heather in Neverland]

family members tell other family members their terminal illnesses were their own fault and their parents' fault, df is now an quote]

 

This is simply heinous! I sat in the pew of my SIL's family's church, one Sunday, as her pastor of 20 years called forward a man with severe kidney failure. His condition was thought to be terminal and he was on a waiting list for a transplant. He could barely walk up. The pastor yelled, flailed and "healed" the guy and afterward, looked him right in the eye in front of hundreds of people and said words to this effect, "Now, you ARE healed if you have the faith to be healed. If you continue to be sick after tonight, it is because YOU don't have enough faith. YOU don't believe!"

I was sick to my stomach and nearly in tears. What a heresy. I wanted so badly to tell this sick and probably dieing man the beautiful things that Christ wanted him to know. How much he was loved. How God would never leave him. How God would care for his family through this difficulty and how, no matter when he died, soon or distant, that he had paradise to look forward to. I would also pray for him to be healed and believe that God could and would do it if it was best for His plan.

How on earth do these people explain Paul's "thorn?" Who could possibly have more faith then Paul? Yet Paul was NOT healed and God's grace was sufficient.

 

This story just breaks my heart.....

[Chelle in MO]

I don't have any personal experience with Joel Osteen, but what many of you are describing makes me think of people John MacArthur once referred to as "synthetic Christians". It's a sad state of affairs.

 

Chelle

[ereks mom]

A motivational speaker running under the label of preacher.

 

:iagree:

[Retired]

he is a motivational speaker

 

he has never studied theology

 

he is "ordained" by the church board :confused:

 

his wife was ordained by the church board

 

The whole family works for the church

 

It seems more of a business than a church.

 

I would guess if you are running a business, then telling people they are sinners probably would cut down on the profits

 

 

I like Paul Washers theology but I would really get tired of the fire and brimstone every sermon

[Blessedfamily]

he is a motivational speaker

 

he has never studied theology

 

he is "ordained" by the church board :confused:

 

his wife was ordained by the church board

 

The whole family works for the church

 

It seems more of a business than a church.

 

I would guess if you are running a business, then telling people they are sinners probably would cut down on the profits

 

......

 

 

Oh. A family business. I have never heard of being "ordained" by a church board.

 

He comes on at 8:30 this morning and I will definately be watching. If what you all say is accurate, I would lump him in the same bag with Oprah.

[Kathleen in VA]

I like Paul Washers theology but I would really get tired of the fire and brimstone every sermon

 

I think the reason Paul Washer sounds so f & b all the time is because he isn't a church pastor - he is an evangelist. They really are two different sorts of preachers. I have listened to him "street" preach in Lima, Peru on youtube (there were subtitles because he was speaking in Spanish), and the tone was much softer and more of your typical gospel message. I think, perhaps (I'm really just guessing), that he feels the need to be more straightforward about the consequences of dying in one's sin here in America because there are so many church-going folk here who are deceived into thinking they are saved just because they do good works, go to church, tithe, etc. He is trying to startle them out of their complacency.

[Soph the vet]

I only read a the first page of replys so this has probably been shared already. Joel Osteen preaches a watered-down, feel-good, have your best life now gospel. It is a false gospel. IMO, he is a snake oil salesman.

[Heather in Neverland]

I think the reason Paul Washer sounds so f & b all the time is because he isn't a church pastor - he is an evangelist. They really are two different sorts of preachers. I have listened to him "street" preach in Lima, Peru on youtube (there were subtitles because he was speaking in Spanish), and the tone was much softer and more of your typical gospel message. I think, perhaps (I'm really just guessing), that he feels the need to be more straightforward about the consequences of dying in one's sin here in America because there are so many church-going folk here who are deceived into thinking they are saved just because they do good works, go to church, tithe, etc. He is trying to startle them out of their complacency.

 

:iagree::iagree::iagree:

[fivetails]

This thread has been very helpful - I have a friend (fairly new friend) who has actually stated the phrase mentined earlier in the thread, "Name it and claim it" several times to me about certain things, along with stuff like "You are a child of the King - don't settle for that" and some other odd bits. I wasn't really sure what to make of that.... seeing it come up here led me to googling a bit... aha. Interesting. Makes much more sense now. :cool:

[Blessedfamily]

I was a teen when the Virginia Lottery started. I remember a man coming to church who was spending a large portion of his family's income on lottery tickets. The wife was distressed. Some brothers at church were trying to help him with this sudden addiction, but where getting nowhere. You know what he told them? "John saw a number." (Rev 7:9)

 

 

I felt Mr. Olsteen's application of Philippians 1:6 was almost as bad. Paul was not trying to tell the Philippians God would give them all the new mules and chariots and leather sandals they could dream up. He was concerned that the Philippians, seeing how he was suffering, would become faint-hearted and question there own faith.

 

Mr. Olsteen was jumping from scipture to sciprutre, isolating portions of verses and bible stories that you could use to support getting what you want from God. These scriptures were about spiritual matters. The condition of the spirit was never addressed at all. (He did mention parents with wayward children hoping for them to straighten out.)

 

I do understand looking to God for provisions (along with getting off your butt), but there was an unbalanced message here. Maybe next week he'll get to spiritual matters.

[Heather in Neverland]

Maybe next week he'll get to spiritual matters.

 

Don't hold your breath. :D

[Melissa in CA]

Don't hold your breath. :D

 

:lol: Yes, we'd hate to lose ya!

[Marylou]

. If what you all say is accurate, I would lump him in the same bag with Oprah.

 

At least Oprah gives stuff away :spam:

ETA and if this is our best life now more is better, right?

Edited May 10, 2009 by dmmosher

[Blessedfamily]

Don't hold your breath. :D

 

:lol: Yes, we'd hate to lose ya!

 

At least Oprah gives stuff away :spam:

ETA and if this is our best life now more is better, right?

 

:lol::lol: No wait..... :D :D :D : (nice 'n toothy)