I can't BELIEVE what I just saw on tv!!!

[Denisemomof4]

I'm FLABBERGASTED!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm going through the responses to my "kitchen floor" thread (and getting AWESOME input, thank you VERY much!) ;) and I heard some woman (Megyn Kelly) going on and on about a woman who's such a bad mom she needs to be sterilized. I thought she sounded kinda like a lunatic UNTIL..... I saw the clip and REALLY heard what she was talking about!

 

This so called "mother" was smoking some marijuana and her SON, who definitely looked younger than 5, came to hug his mom. She opened his mouth, blew all the smoke into his, and THEN proceeded to apparently tell him to "knock it off!!!" when he acted sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

O.M.G. Did I *really* see that?

 

I have to agree....... this mother should be foced to get sterilized! I'm SICK to my stomach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek:

[specialmama]

That. is. sick.

[tricia]

Wow, what a shame.:tongue_smilie:

[Tap]

Huh? I must be missing something here...what tv show are you talking about?

[Heather in Neverland]

WOW. And I was upset over the Burger King Spongebob commercial!!! That is just evil!

[Amy+2]

That turns my stomach.

 

Makes me wonder what else her poor children are subjected to...

[Denisemomof4]

Huh? I must be missing something here...what tv show are you talking about?

 

The O'Reilly Factor. I turned on Greta Van Susteran (sp?) to see what I've been missing in the news lately :tongue_smilie: and got sidetracked by WTM (gotta love those laptops! Can bring them ANYWHERE!) and had NO CLUE as to what this "lunatic" was talking about. But after I saw, listened some more, etc. I just could NOT believe what I saw! I have NO idea who was taping!

[scrappyhappymama]

Disgusting. That poor baby.

[bella_gitana]

WOW. And I was upset over the Burger King Spongebob commercial!!! That is just evil!

 

I'm glad is not just me. I cannot stand that commercial, but then most Burger King commercials in the past couple of years are just awful.

[happygrrl]

No one should be forced to be sterilized. :confused:

[Denisemomof4]

No one should be forced to be sterilized. :confused:

 

while I agree, what do you think the right punishment should be for a MOTHER who FORCED her toddler to smoke mirijuana?

 

The reason I think nobody should be forced to be sterilized is because everyone can change. Everyone makes mistakes and everyone can change. And IMHO, God can change anyone.

 

BUT, this is just such a deplorable act that I can understand the point of view that sterilization should happen. Watching the video clip made me sick. I do NOT think she should be allowed to keep her children - not with that type of incriminating evidence.

[Karenciavo]

He wasn't a toddler, he was a 7 yo with Downs Syndrome. The mother let another woman blow the smoke into the child's mouth and then she, the mother, told her son to knock it off when he did something afterward (complain, cough, I don't really know.) It really is sick, but I'm not in favor of forced sterilization.

[Katrina]

I'm not a fan of forced sterilization either...however taking custody away from the parent is fine by me in this case...

[Chris in VA]

I saw a report about moms in another country who blow smoke into their children's mouths in order to lessen the pain of their very poor, desperate circumstances--I want to say it was in Afghanistan, and it was opium smoke, but that could be wrong. Anyway, it was shocking. I can't imagine it happening in this country. I think someone should call CPS.

[Guest Virginia Dawn]

I personally know a man whose mother introduced him, and his siblings, to marijuana when he was 5 years old.

 

They were later placed in foster care and raised by a loving Christian family. He is now a Christian and a great father to his own kids. I hope the child you saw gets the help he needs.

[DB in NJ]

The mother got 3 years in prison and 7 years probation.

 

No word yet on what the woman who actually blew the smoke into the boy's mouth got.

 

Unbelievable...makes me sick.

[DB in NJ]

Just heard that the woman who blew the smoke was 8 months pregnant in the video.

 

These women should not have parental rights at all.

 

As a side note, Megyn Kelly just said that the local Rent-A-Center repossessed the woman's computer and found the video on there while they were cleaning it.

[LizzyBee]

No one should be forced to be sterilized. :confused:

 

I'm not a fan of forced sterilization either. But how many kids' lives do you let someone ruin before you say enough is enough? Someone I knew when I lived in Baltimore was forced to be sterilized after 2 of her kids were brain damaged from malnutrition. She'd already lost custody of the 1st kid when she malnourished the 2nd, so it's not as though she didn't know better. I have no sympathy for her, because those kids lives will never be even close to what they could have been if she had taken care of them.

[blessedx5]

Oh yeah the BK commercial:angry:

 

Debbie

[Jill- OK]

I'm glad is not just me.

 

Not just you.

 

And my kids WATCH Spongebob, lol.

 

The combination of that song, the subject matter, and the fact that it's promoting *kids' meals* really disgusted me.

[HRAAB]

I don't know what you're talking about, but blowing smoke into a child's mouth is abhorrent. However, I could absolutely never support forced sterilization.

 

Janet

[Impish]

I could.

 

I really could support forced sterilization. When it comes to baby after baby being born addicted from the same mother, I really could get behind forced sterilization. When baby after baby is born with FASD to the same mother, yeah, I really could. How many babies should one woman be allowed to damage for a lifetime before someone says ENOUGH? When does her right to procreate become second to the lifetime damage she does to innocents?

 

Sure, she could change. But the children who have FASD can't. The children born addicted can't. In fact, studies show that the children born addicted are often LUCKIER than those born with FASD. And its a lifetime sentance. Some born with FASD will never live independantly. Others, like my dh and BIL, will struggle their entire lives with memory and impulse issues. Others, like my other BILs and SIL will end up severe addicts themselves.

 

Add in on that the fact that Social Services is overwhelmed with these children, and many adoptive parents will not consider a child with FASD because of the unpredictible nature of the brain damage, so children with FASD end up bouncing around the foster care system until they age out, unless they're one of the incredibly lucky few that get adopted.

 

Sorry, but if the choice is down to sterilizing an addict that has already given birth to FASD babies/addicted babies or allowing her to have heaven only knows how many more...I'd vote for sterilizing.

[LNC]

I'm FLABBERGASTED!!!!!!!!!

 

I'm going through the responses to my "kitchen floor" thread (and getting AWESOME input, thank you VERY much!) ;) and I heard some woman (Megyn Kelly) going on and on about a woman who's such a bad mom she needs to be sterilized. I thought she sounded kinda like a lunatic UNTIL..... I saw the clip and REALLY heard what she was talking about!

 

This so called "mother" was smoking some marijuana and her SON, who definitely looked younger than 5, came to hug his mom. She opened his mouth, blew all the smoke into his, and THEN proceeded to apparently tell him to "knock it off!!!" when he acted sick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

O.M.G. Did I *really* see that?

 

I have to agree....... this mother should be foced to get sterilized! I'm SICK to my stomach!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:eek:

 

AND he has Down's syndrome.... but I agree about not supporting forced sterilization.

[OnTheBrink]

I'm not a fan of forced sterilization either...however taking custody away from the parent is fine by me in this case...

 

:iagree:

[HeatherLynn]

I could.

 

I really could support forced sterilization. When it comes to baby after baby being born addicted from the same mother, I really could get behind forced sterilization. When baby after baby is born with FASD to the same mother, yeah, I really could. How many babies should one woman be allowed to damage for a lifetime before someone says ENOUGH? When does her right to procreate become second to the lifetime damage she does to innocents?

 

Sure, she could change. But the children who have FASD can't. The children born addicted can't. In fact, studies show that the children born addicted are often LUCKIER than those born with FASD. And its a lifetime sentance. Some born with FASD will never live independantly. Others, like my dh and BIL, will struggle their entire lives with memory and impulse issues. Others, like my other BILs and SIL will end up severe addicts themselves.

 

Add in on that the fact that Social Services is overwhelmed with these children, and many adoptive parents will not consider a child with FASD because of the unpredictible nature of the brain damage, so children with FASD end up bouncing around the foster care system until they age out, unless they're one of the incredibly lucky few that get adopted.

 

Sorry, but if the choice is down to sterilizing an addict that has already given birth to FASD babies/addicted babies or allowing her to have heaven only knows how many more...I'd vote for sterilizing.

 

I agree whole heartedly

[HRAAB]

I could.

 

I really could support forced sterilization. When it comes to baby after baby being born addicted from the same mother, I really could get behind forced sterilization. When baby after baby is born with FASD to the same mother, yeah, I really could. How many babies should one woman be allowed to damage for a lifetime before someone says ENOUGH? When does her right to procreate become second to the lifetime damage she does to innocents?

 

Sure, she could change. But the children who have FASD can't. The children born addicted can't. In fact, studies show that the children born addicted are often LUCKIER than those born with FASD. And its a lifetime sentance. Some born with FASD will never live independantly. Others, like my dh and BIL, will struggle their entire lives with memory and impulse issues. Others, like my other BILs and SIL will end up severe addicts themselves.

 

Add in on that the fact that Social Services is overwhelmed with these children, and many adoptive parents will not consider a child with FASD because of the unpredictible nature of the brain damage, so children with FASD end up bouncing around the foster care system until they age out, unless they're one of the incredibly lucky few that get adopted.

 

Sorry, but if the choice is down to sterilizing an addict that has already given birth to FASD babies/addicted babies or allowing her to have heaven only knows how many more...I'd vote for sterilizing.

 

Could it be guaranteed that forced sterilization would never be used for other reasons: race, hereditary issues, etc. Where this could lead scares me to death. Unfortunately, life isn't perfect, never will be, people will make mistakes and innocents will suffer. But to allow the government to determine that certain people can be sterilized is opening a can of worms I never care to see.

 

Janet

[Katrina]

Actually...this country did use forced sterilization to keep people "they" thought shouldn't procreate from procreating. It was outlawed as unconstitutional. Now...I know there are parents who I would love to do a little snip-snip and prevent them from having more kids because they are awful parents, but in the end, who am I to determin who can or can't have kids? Should the government? I wouldn't want the gov to be able to make that decision for me. (I guess the arguement could be made that we use the govt. to remove children from unsafe homes...)

 

here's one link discussing this: http://www.cfif.org/htdocs/freedomline/current/in_our_opinion/un_sterile_past.html

Edited May 8, 2009 by Katrina
added link

[dtb1999]

Not just you.

 

And my kids WATCH Spongebob, lol.

 

The combination of that song, the subject matter, and the fact that it's promoting *kids' meals* really disgusted me.

 

 

Same here. My kids watch Spongebob. They laugh whenever their is some sort of posterior joke. Heck, I crack up sometimes watching it. :tongue_smilie: But that commercial just, ugh. It's bad. :glare:

[Oakblossoms]

Thank you for bringing that up Katrina. It was part of the Eugenics movement if I remember correctly.

 

I think the government could offer to pay for sterilization services to woman who are going through difficulties. Many may not realize there are often free health services for them.

 

But, the government really should not be involved that personally in people's lives. I'd like to be positive about it and all. But, honestly most of this board is homeschooling because we see the government's involvement in the education of our children as unreliable at best. Imagine giving them control of your uterus or bits and pieces (I'm pretty sure the official word would be edited out).

[LizzyBee]

It was outlawed as unconstitutional.

 

Do you know when this happened? The link says the 1927 case that allowed forced sterilization has never been overruled, but I couldn't tell when the article was written. The case I knew of occurred in the late 80's or early 90's. The comment her sister made to me was that it was very difficult (as it should be!) to force someone to be sterilized in MD, and the fact that the state succeeded shows how extremely negligent the mom was. Even her sister thought it was the right thing to do under the circumstances; in fact, she was worried that she'd find a dr to reverse the procedure and have more kids.

[Katrina]

Do you know when this happened? The link says the 1927 case that allowed forced sterilization has never been overruled, but I couldn't tell when the article was written. The case I knew of occurred in the late 80's or early 90's. The comment her sister made to me was that it was very difficult (as it should be!) to force someone to be sterilized in MD, and the fact that the state succeeded shows how extremely negligent the mom was. Even her sister thought it was the right thing to do under the circumstances; in fact, she was worried that she'd find a dr to reverse the procedure and have more kids.

 

Okay...when I first posted my reply I was going on memory what I learned in a sociology class in college...but the last 30 minutes I've been reading more to refresh my memory...should've done that first.

 

From what I'm reading it was pretty much before WWII. I think it was state laws and state govt. involved, not national govt. So I shouldn't have said it was ruled unconstitutional (my bad) but that's what I thought I remembered.

 

Here's a quote from Wikipedia: After World War II, public opinion towards eugenics and sterilization programs became more negative in the light of the connection with the genocidal policies of Nazi Germany, though a significant number of sterilizations continued in a few states until the early 1960s. The Oregon Board of Eugenics, later renamed the Board of Social Protection, existed until 1983, with the last forcible sterilization occurring in 1981.[23] The U.S. commonwealth Puerto Rico had a sterilization program as well. Some states continued to have sterilization laws on the books for much longer after that, though they were rarely if ever used.

 

 

Here the link for the full wiki article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_sterilization

 

It can get you started...also do a google search for Eugenics. America wasn't the only country practicing Eugenics.

[Impish]

My argument isn't based on eugenics. Its based on proven behaviour. If a woman gives birth to a baby with FASD or more than one, then to my mind, she is a proven risk to her unborn. I would have no problem voting for her sterilization. Or force her in to rehab during pregnancy...but I don't see that going over well either.

 

As a society, we're all so concerned about the rights of the individual that the irreversible, life long damage to the newborns doesn't seem to register.

[Happy2BaMom]

Although I come down on the side of "no forced sterilization", I have mixed feelings about it.

 

We are foster parents; last week we turned down the opportunity to take in 5 siblings, ages 5 & under, all of whom have special needs (the younger 2 it's medical, the rest emotional/mental).

 

The mother is 18.

 

A foster parent in another state recently told me that there is one man in her small town who has fathered 21 children in the foster care system. (with multiple women, obviously)

 

The average lifetime calculated cost for a single FASD child is > $1 million (from my training class).

 

Most children in foster care are siblings, nearly all with different fathers, most with special needs. The state pays for foster care, therapists, transportation, visitations, medical, dental & vision care, day care, and sometimes adoption subsidies, among other things.

 

The point being...is there a point when the societal cost become so burdensome, & the repetitive behavior of some social miscreants become so abysmal, that the right to reproduce should be taken away?

 

I'm not in favor of it, due to the potential for abuse, but the harsh reality of the foster care world makes me wonder. If the potential for abuse were somehow magically removed, I'd be all for it.

[Katrina]

I'm not saying I couldn't come up with my own shortlist of people I think should seriously be sterilized...but where should we draw the line? What abuses would constitute the right to be forced sterilization? Would that list change with each presidential administration? I'm sorry, child abuse is HORRIBLE, please don't say I don't care about the welfare of children, but absolute power absolutely corrupts, and I don't think in a democracy we there should be anyone making those decisions.

 

And yes...states were allowed to forcibly sterilize someone as punishment (although probably not for child abuse)

[Katrina]

Although I come down on the side of "no forced sterilization", I have mixed feelings about it.

 

 

I'm not in favor of it, due to the potential for abuse, but the harsh reality of the foster care world makes me wonder. If the potential for abuse were somehow magically removed, I'd be all for it.

 

I have mixed feeling about it as well. It's not a clear cut black and white issue. I agree with you...I don't trust it to completely get out of hand and people abusing their power or authority.

[Impish]

I have mixed feeling about it as well. It's not a clear cut black and white issue. I agree with you...I don't trust it to completely get out of hand and people abusing their power or authority.

I agree that nothing is perfect, and there would be those that would abuse it, which is one of the many reasons it will never be a reality.

 

I'm just saying that the idea of sterilizing someone that has already had borne children with FASD/addictions is something I could wholeheartedly support. How that would actually carry out, I don't know.

 

Here's something else I don't understand. Why aren't these mothers charged? I mean, seriously. Why isn't there any sort of responsibility or consequence to having given birth to a child with FASD or with drugs in their system? Yes, they often lose custody, but that's not a big thing to some, since a child is a hindrance to their lifestyle anyways. Why isn't there some sort of punishment involved? Something, anything, that tells these women that this isn't acceptable?

 

Sorry, it just makes me nuts. These babies, through no fault of their own, serve a life sentence when born with FASD, thankfully not all as severe as others, but a sentence none the less. Why do the mothers get off 'scot free' as it were? I mean, if you or I go out, get drunk, and hurt someone to the point where they have brain damage, we'd be criminally charged and serve jail time. But if you're pregnant, and do so to your own child in utero, its ok.

[Annie Laurie]

Same here. My kids watch Spongebob. They laugh whenever their is some sort of posterior joke. Heck, I crack up sometimes watching it. :tongue_smilie: But that commercial just, ugh. It's bad. :glare:

 

We don't watch much tv, mostly a dvd here and there, so I hadn't seen this and was curious. Found it on youtube, ugh and bad is right. And I like Spongebob fine normally too, every time I get on the treadmill I think of Spongebob and Patrick saying "At least all of this running is good for our buns and thighs!" :lol:

[Annie Laurie]

Could it be guaranteed that forced sterilization would never be used for other reasons: race, hereditary issues, etc. Where this could lead scares me to death. Unfortunately, life isn't perfect, never will be, people will make mistakes and innocents will suffer. But to allow the government to determine that certain people can be sterilized is opening a can of worms I never care to see.

 

Janet

 

I agree. The mom is obviously a horrible parent and the whole story is heartbreaking, the little boy definitely needs a different guardian. But forced sterilization is something I would never support.

[LoveBaby]

I agree. The mom is obviously a horrible parent and the whole story is heartbreaking, the little boy definitely needs a different guardian. But forced sterilization is something I would never support.

 

 

Sterilization isn't something I could support either. It's a slippery slope for sure. Anything going against what the state determines as right could be cause for sterilization and as a christian that make me nervous.

 

I do however think that perhaps criminal charges should be brought against a mother that repeatedly harms their child in utero. 3 strike your out and all that.

[emeraldjoy]

I agree.

No one should be forced to be sterilized. :confused:

[LizzyBee]

We are foster parents; last week we turned down the opportunity to take in 5 siblings, ages 5 & under, all of whom have special needs (the younger 2 it's medical, the rest emotional/mental).

 

The mother is 18.

 

A foster parent in another state recently told me that there is one man in her small town who has fathered 21 children in the foster care system. (with multiple women, obviously)

 

 

Several years ago, my youngest sister adopted 5 siblings, ages 5, 4, 3, 2, and almost 1. All of them actually have the same parents, who were 19 and 25 at the time. The father had 6 other children in addition to these 5. He was unable to attend the hearing to remove parental rights, because he was in jail on drug charges.

[Impish]

No baby should be born brain damaged due to FASD either.