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Math-based, secular, teacher (not me), w book physics (ds has only started Alg2)


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I've been reading all the threads about physics that I could find, but ds's situation seems a little different...

 

I'm looking for a high school level, more math-based than Conceptual Physics...with:

Book (can't do it without a book - need that paper), Teacher (either online or DVD), and Labs (online, paper, or DVD)

 

I'm leaning towards having him read through Conceptual Physics over the summer for background and then trying the Giancoli text in the fall...But he only started Alg 2 this year (he spent more on Geometry) so I'm not sure if he can do it simultaneously?

 

We do not have CC courses here, and since ds is only starting 10th, has not had the trig or calculus necessary for AP C level course and some of the other online courses...

 

Are there other options besides the ones below? And can you make any important comments on the ones below? Or correct any mistaken information on my part? Is the Scholar's online rigorous and able to be used with only Alg 2 - he should be starting into trig towards the 2/3 of the year? Are there other materials for Giancoli that you can recommend?

 

Book with multimedia and lab components (not Conceptual Physics though)

 

?????

 

Giancoli - does it have such supports as a teacher on video? Lab manuals? Can it be done simultaneously with Alg 2?

 

Online courses with "personal" instructor

 

Scholars Online - I've heard it uses Gioncoli text but can't find info on site- has anyone done this course? I'm presuming it is secular since the text is?

https://www.scholarsonline.org/Info/science.php

 

Potter's School - not secular materials

 

Online without personal instructor (these really seem more like supplemental materials)

 

Conceptual Physics by kinetic books (no "paper" textbook from what I can see?)

http://www.kineticbooks.com/products/textbook/text_levels.html

I see Kolbe has various supporting materials for this

http://www.kolbe.org/home.php?cat=386&page=2 but you have to register with their school to get answer keys which all adds up and is not secular..

 

Thinkwell - I don't like that there is not a real book, just notes

http://www.thinkwell.com/homeschool/product/physics

 

Hippo Campus - video examples of different physics concepts and suggested texts but those texts vary so greatly that I could not afford to ship them all over here to figure out which goes with the site best....

http://www.hippocampus.org/Physics/

 

Physics Classroom

http://www.physicsclassroom.com/

 

MIT seems to be AP level and needing calculus; I presume Yale is the same?

 

correspondance courses, they seem to be more book oriented...and the book they use (xcpt U OK) is Conceptual Physics...(I have not seen this book, but after buying Conceptual Chemistry and finding it not rigorous enough, I want to use Conceptual Physics as an introduction - plus Hewitt's DVD's are so expensive!!)

 

University of Nebraska - Conceptual Physics by Hewitt

Indiana University - same

Texas Tech - same

University of Oklahoma - Physics: Principles and Problems by ZITZEWITZ but requires Alg 2 and Trig

 

DVD's

(I have looked at TC courses but want something traditionally high school...and will use them as a supplement...)

 

I'd love to have the materials all coodinated so that I'm not "mixing and matching" which ends up being so time consuming normally...

 

Thanks for sorting through all this!

Joan

Edited by Joan in Geneva
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Joan-This may help you with Scholars Online. The list expands if you click on the bullet marking. I have copied the required text under their Physics listing:

 

Textbooks and Materials

* Physics: Principles with Applications (Edition: 6)

Donald C. Giancoli

This text is required.

ISBN: 0131846612

Publisher's website: Physics: Principles with Applications

Best sources: Scholars Online Bookstore

Other information: This is the textbook alone. Students taking the AP option may wish to purchase the optional package instead, which includes both textbook and AP Workbook at a slight discount than when purchased separately.

* Physics: Principles with Applications Combo Package (Edition: 6)

Douglas C. Giancoli

This text is recommended; purchase and use is optional.

ISBN: 0131142860

Publisher's website: Physics: Principles with Applications Combo Package

Best sources: Scholars Online Bookstore

Other information: Students taking the AP option may wish to purchase this combination package instead of purchasing text and AP workbooks separately.

 

:bigear: Waiting to hear what others have to say here.

 

Jane

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The only comment I have is that Kolbe's science curricula is completely secular. People who want to add religion to it add supplemental materials. And Kolbe does allow people to purchase a single course.

 

Kineticbooks allows users to purchase an actual book, but the computer program is not a "live" teacher.

 

 

asta

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I just stumbled across the CPO science curriculum recently - I've been looking at their middle-school texts (which I really like), but apparently they started with high school physics. They don't appear to be AP courses, but they have 3 different introductory high-school level physics courses. Here's their description of the most most mathy, as far as I can tell, which requires Alg 1 but not trig or calc:

 

Foundations of Physics - By Dr. Tom Hsu

With the unique Foundations of Physics hands-on, inquiry based instructional approach, more students can understand and retain complex physics concepts. The text and investigations connect each new concept to students’ experience in the lab or real world, and present ideas in both words and illustrations. The program also combines the best attributes of conceptual and mathematical instruction as students use equations (introductory algebra level) to analyze data and solve quantitative problems.

 

They don't have any video teaching that I can tell, but there is a lab book and a ton of free online resources, including powerpoint slides for each chapter, videos to illustrate various topics/points, videos showing how to set up equipment for labs, animated simulations of various topics, and 30+ pages per unit of "skill sheets" that cover both math topics and the history of physics, among other things. They look really interesting.

 

I'm far away from high school physics yet - I'm wondering what others more in-the-know think of this course vs. some of the others you've mentioned.

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Jane, thanks for the instruction - I had completely missed that info...

 

Asta, thanks for the info about Kolbe.. but is there a way to get the answer books without signing up, maybe from another place? On their site, it says for registered families only...

 

Matroyshka, I'll look into that - but what is CPO? I hope some others have experience...

 

Anyone else? - I'd love to hear more...it is so painful to order books overseas...this year was like a bad dream in regards to getting materials so late, then finding out that I needed something else, and something else...ds was fairly frustrated, so I'm hoping not to repeat that mistake....

 

Thank you!

Joan

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Matroyshka, I'll look into that - but what is CPO? I hope some others have experience...

 

 

My brother tells me it stands for Cambridge Physics... something. :tongue_smilie: I forget what the "O" was. He was over this week after receiving yet another award for being such an awesome science teacher ::hem, small brag on my little bro' :):: so I made him look at the middle school CPO books I had to see if they had any merit, and it turns out he knows the author and thinks very highly of him, so that's a huge endorsement for me.

 

I don't know anyone who's used the program, though - I think it's fairly new. There's lots of samples and materials at the website. I was able to order the previous version of the middle school books, complete with lab books, very inexpensively on ebay (although it still may be a pain to ship to Switzerland... )

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Asta, thanks for the info about Kolbe.. but is there a way to get the answer books without signing up, maybe from another place? On their site, it says for registered families only...

 

Thank you!

Joan

 

Yes. They allow you to register for a single class. If you look at this catalog snippet you will see (page 2) that a single course costs $45 + cost of books + cost of course plan.

 

In the case of Conceptual Physics, would be $44 for the digital text, $36 for the Solutions Manual, $45 for the Syllabus, etc. and then the $45 "registration".

 

IMO, the adding up of things is how people end up completely registering for a school... obviously, books always cost, but where they really get you is in the registration and course plan fees.

 

At Kolbe (which I don't use, but have looked at extensively), a high school registration is $290 a year and includes syllabi, etc. for all subjects. Books are extra.

 

One last thing: most people don't realize that Kolbe's curriculum is compartmentalized - all of the subjects are classical, not religious. Even their theology program is Catholic theology, not "hey, let's make you a Catholic". For transfer students, they only require a year of theology, and it doesn't even have to be Catholic (they are assuming that non-Catholics want to use their program).

 

 

asta

 

(who wishes DS was a big reader, because the Kolbe program is so neat and tidy...)

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Matroyshka - Sorry about that...I hadn't realized the underline of the name of the book meant it was a link...

 

I've looked up Tom Hsu...here's some hx..

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1995/physics-0315.html...I'm going to try to contact him personally...

 

Later...

But I can't find an email...he's no longer the president of the company...and there are several other Thomas Hsu s....

 

Apparantly his approach is "inquiry-based" learning...see part under how the program works...

http://www.cpo.com/faq.shtml

 

It is Cambridge Physics Outlet....

 

Asta - thank you for all those details and calculations! I may end up with that as so far there does not seem to be what I am looking for...though the inquiry-based approach sounds appealing too...hard to tell how different it is from the Conceptual Physics material...

 

Thanks again,

Joan

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where you can have the teacher support. I have found this past year that it has been very helpful to have a tutor that can be reached by email or over the internet for chat for our son in his more advanced courses. I'd probably be most tempted by something like scholars on line, but I don't quite understand how that would work for you with the time lag. Wouldn't the second course meeting on Thursdays be in the middle of the night for you guys?

 

Having read through the posts, I'm not sure that the CPO course is going to have as much rigor as you are looking for. I have not looked at their website, but if it is inquiry based and only requires AL I, it sounds like it might be geared to a less intensive course of study?

 

I know that the Thinkwell course is Calculus based. I have it and have watched a few of the videos. I bought more as a supplemental program for ds. I emailed the two professors and they both thought that it would be good for a high schooler as supplemental, but that some of the math would be over their heads because of the calculus. Thinkwell is really designed to be supplemental course materials for college students. There is no tutorial support.

 

I think that most high school physics courses should be doable with the level of math that your son is going to be at. Plus, it has been our experience that math support is pretty easy to find on the internet.

 

Really, Joan, I think the most important feature for you being overseas would be having access to a real live tutor. Just having a solutions manual or DVD is probably not going to give you the level of support you'll want.

 

HTH

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My brother tells me it stands for Cambridge Physics... something. :tongue_smilie: I forget what the "O" was. He was over this week after receiving yet another award for being such an awesome science teacher ::hem, small brag on my little bro' :):: so I made him look at the middle school CPO books I had to see if they had any merit, and it turns out he knows the author and thinks very highly of him, so that's a huge endorsement for me.

 

I don't know anyone who's used the program, though - I think it's fairly new. There's lots of samples and materials at the website. I was able to order the previous version of the middle school books, complete with lab books, very inexpensively on ebay (although it still may be a pain to ship to Switzerland... )

 

I ordered the Focus on Physical Science book from Ebay, new in package, with the lab book. It's the 2007 version and it's incomplete. Only about half the course is there when I compared the table of contents of the 2007 to the 2009. Nothing about electricity, magnetism, waves, color, etc. It's very frustrating since I really do like what I've read in the one I do have.

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Sharon - you're right - the second course would be the middle of the night - I was wondering if you had to do both of them or just one...so maybe I need a different online course - know of any others?

 

Sir - I'm glad you mentioned the used package problem - that's the last thing I need - to get a "half" a package!

 

Sometimes I've ordered something ahead of time (presummer when I would normally pick it up in the summer when we go back) and not discovered until all the books are unpacked out of our suitcases and other boxes I've sent as well that take another month to get here, that the book never arrived at all...

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Jane, thanks for the instruction - I had completely missed that info...

 

Asta, thanks for the info about Kolbe.. but is there a way to get the answer books without signing up, maybe from another place? On their site, it says for registered families only...

 

Matroyshka, I'll look into that - but what is CPO? I hope some others have experience...

 

Anyone else? - I'd love to hear more...it is so painful to order books overseas...this year was like a bad dream in regards to getting materials so late, then finding out that I needed something else, and something else...ds was fairly frustrated, so I'm hoping not to repeat that mistake....

 

Thank you!

Joan

 

CPO is a publisher specializing in science instruction for grades 6-12. Primarily their specialization is in physics and physical science. I dumped Science Explorer for my then 7th grader to go with CPO in mid year. We found the CPO text clearer and it builds on itself. time is spent teaching the underlying science prior to teaching "applications". For example, one chapter each was spent teaching about density and bouancy before introducing plate tectonics. Also the diagrams were clearer and the layout, though colorful, was less busy and it was easier to follow the text.

 

cpo.com

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I wonder what if your ds does math intensively at this time to finish Algebra 2 at least, before tackling physics where he might need math as a tool.

 

Hmmm...actually, I think he was going to work on Alg over the summer, so maybe he will be farther along than I have placed him at this point....Thanks for thinking of that...

 

Kathy - thanks for the info...

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...actually, I think he was going to work on Alg over the summer, ....

 

Wonderful ! As your ds is science-oriented and thus he is trying to do physics sooner, hope he can put some time in math to further excel into Precalculus. Then he can do Physics C and Calculus concurrently.

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though the inquiry-based approach sounds appealing too...hard to tell how different it is from the Conceptual Physics material...

 

 

I've never looked at a Conceptual Physics text, so I have no idea how much if any math is in it, I just thought since the CPO description said it "combines the best attributes of conceptual and mathematical instruction" that it would have more math than the typical conceptual approach.

 

I see that in the sample chapter there isn't any obvious math, but did you look at the skills and practice sheets <-yes, that's a link ;)? There are over 30 pp. of those per unit on the website, and much of them are math applications (using Alg 1). Have no idea if that's the kind of thing you're looking for, but I thought I'd point them out. All the skills and practice sheets are free online.

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I see that in the sample chapter there isn't any obvious math, but did you look at the skills and practice sheets <-yes, that's a link ;)? There are over 30 pp. of those per unit on the website, and much of them are math applications (using Alg 1). Have no idea if that's the kind of thing you're looking for, but I thought I'd point them out. All the skills and practice sheets are free online.

 

Matroyshka - you made me laugh with your "wink" about the link...I've just resigned myself to getting several options...chosen from all these discussions...to compare myself...Giancoli - I'll need it sooner or later...so if he finishes Alg 2 over the summer, then he could start...and I'll have on hand the Conceptual Physics and Hsu/CPO and the kinetic books materials to fill in if he doesn't...then start Giancoli when he does...I don't know if he'll finish in time for the SO courses and am not sure if those would work out with our time difference...but the rigorousness of the course sounds appealing.

 

Thanks everyone for all the input and assistance!

Joan

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