Smaller and purer, or bigger and broader: where are the classical homeschoolers?

[Plaid Dad]

Colleen, you say "I imagine there are times when people . . . have to modify for the time being and do "x".

 

This is true -- this is why I am "here", even though I am not a classical homeschooler. I would prefer to be a classical homeschooler. For many reasons, it has never worked for our family.

 

I can understand this, and as I said much earlier in the thread, I appreciate that this forum is a big tent. I also understand the desire for focused support. I get that support from a mailing list for people who do "my kind of classical," complete with Latin, Greek, and all that jazz, and I just ignore the many, many threads here that deal with curricula that don't fit my educational philosophy, religious perspective, etc.

[Annabel Lee]

Bumping this up to share w/ those who weren't around when it was written. It's old, but it's good.

[Teachin'Mine]

 

And although it is not apparent from that quote and Simmons makes this clear in the rest of the book, that while the study of Latin and Greek is necessary, it is not sufficient to making an education a classical education. For example, the local public high schools where I live all offer Latin to high school students but it's not a "classical education." For example, the following lists the classical course of study in a Boston high school about mid 19th century,

 

 

Anyone here doing Caesar the sophomore year and Virgil and Xenophon the junior? I'd love to read through some threads on how that's going.

 

We dropped Latin this year but will definitely pick it back up again next. I downloaded Xenophon from textkit.com with the best of intentions of making that my goal in high school. For right now I've been getting my classical education fix from reading the blogs of classicists and high school Latin teachers.

 

Carry on.

 

That list of subjects from a "classical" course of study is interesting. They delved deeply into Latin and Greek, but where's the science, history (other than ancient), and other classes important to a modern day well rounded education? My dd is taking Latin, but I wouldn't consider her course of study to be classical in the way mentioned in this thread. It is classical in the sense that it is rigorous and textbook based (as opposed to audio-visual). A true classical education would have been torture for her, even though she was exposed to the ancients and other aspects very early in our home schooling. Each student is unique and has different interests and ways of learning.

 

This board is amazing to me. It may not be what it was years ago, but then again, I probably wouldn't find it helpful if it was what it was years ago. :) I think there's a pretty good balance between encouraging others to stay the rigorous course, or make it even more so, and providing supportive help to those who need to make accommodations for their students or their family life. IMO there is no one right way, and we each have to discern for ourselves what's best. I've found that the more information available, the more informed of a decision I can make on various schooling options. I learn from everyone's input here. :)

 

Laura and the others who want more classical conversation here, I hope that you will be contributing and sharing your perspective and experiences with us. That's how we learn and can encourage each other.

 

After writing all this, I just saw the date of the original thread, but I'm glad it was given a bump because it is interesting. :)

[flyingiguana]

Thanks for bumping this up. It's interesting.

 

In my own mind, I've had to decide that there really is a difference between a classical education and a rigorous one, even though the terms are sometimes used interchangeably. A classical education will include ancient languages, for example (among other things) and studying these will require a lot of work. But if I want my kids to have a rigorous education, is only important that I require a lot of work out of them? Or that they learn things that will be useful for them in what they choose to do? In other words, is it worth doing Latin solely for the reason that it's hard? Or is it better to choose something hard (like calculus) that a science oriented student would find a lot more useful?

 

I've decided I am interested in rigorous more than classical. If ancient languages are interesting to my kids, or if they see they will be useful in the future, then, sure, we might do an education that's more strictly classical. If not, we'll just settle for rigorous.

 

And I'm not even interested in rigorous unless it's actually sticking. The original post several years back was bemoaning people giving "permission" to do easier math or whatnot. I think it's just fine to step back and do a less rigorous math or whatever if it means that the student will actually get what they're being taught, rather than letting it go by in a difficult whoosh and getting nothing.

 

 

Thought I'd post just so us newbies can have our say.

Edited September 12, 2010 by flyingiguana

[FaithManor]

We neo-classically educate here and have very strict standards. I just don't post an awful lot about it other than to help those with grading and transcript questions, etc. because we've already graduated one and since we've been there done that on something that seems daunting to many, I don't mind posting.

 

But, SWB is right....it isn't going to be the same for everyone and yet can still be very much a classical education. One of the best aspects of homeschooling is allowing our kids to develop that special niche and then run with it. Ours has been almost across the board science....let me tell you....most of you have probably not done science in a classical way. It would be brutal for a lot of kids...the breadth and depth covered plus the research papers, etc. it just isn't for everyone but for our emerging scientists, perfect. It takes a tremendous amount of time and so some things, like history, can't be done on that same level. If we pursued history, Greek, and Latin at the "truly classical" level, the kids would not be pursuing science in the way they are.. I suspect that most kids never pursue a classical education in the sciences.

 

Our forefathers did not have as much math and science/technology to master has this generation. A classical education that harks back 200 years isn't even practical. Classical education isn't a "do this or do that" it is an approach to learning that is superior to modern educational theory and follows the natural maturation path of the brain/individual but it's implementation may vary according to subject and may not be able to be pursued to its ultimate degree in every academic area. There's only so much time, mental, and emotional energy in a day and so not everyone can pursue "the ultimate rigorous classical pursuit" in every single subject but yet are classically schooling from the learning approach perspective.

 

It's a means to an end but not the end itself.

 

Faith

[Laura Corin]

Anyone here doing Caesar the sophomore year and Virgil and Xenophon the junior? I'd love to read through some threads on how that's going.

 

I studied the Aeneid from age 15 - 16 in a very ordinary private school in the UK. Calvin will be doing something similar. Not a high bar to jump.

 

Laura

[Rhondabee]

I studied the Aeneid from age 15 - 16 in a very ordinary private school in the UK. Calvin will be doing something similar. Not a high bar to jump.

 

Laura

 

It is interesting how quickly standards change once you just start reading.

 

I remember when my oldest son was in 6th grade, and just the thought of reading one epic Greek poem in the 9th grade was enough to send me flipping through catalog after catalog and website after website of the "latest and greatest" high school curriculum. I just thought there was NO WAY that child (or myself) would EVER make it through even *ONE* of those huge tomes - however well-educated that would make us - LOL!

 

Now, two years after my other posts in this thread - LOL!, here he is going into 10th grade having read all 3 last year! And, in fact - he ENJOYED them!!! And, just the other day, (cough, cough, sputter, sputter!!!) THANKED me for the experience!!!! I think he likes showing off his knowledge to his girlfriend more than anything :lol:. But, somehow, he truly feels like he relates to these ancient peoples - who, after all, really did struggle with the same issues and emotions we struggle with today.

 

Yet, life happens and - Yes, you can tell from my siggy below that we have made quite a few compromises this year...

 

Still, just the act of reading what you can, and then reading the next thing, and the next...I don't know...I'm just so thankful to be where we are. I think if everyone could just get through the logic-stage recs of WTM, the world would be a much better place.

Edited September 12, 2010 by Rhondabee

[Annabel Lee]

<snipped> One of the best aspects of homeschooling is allowing our kids to develop that special niche and then run with it. Ours has been almost across the board science....let me tell you....most of you have probably not done science in a classical way. It would be brutal for a lot of kids...the breadth and depth covered plus the research papers, etc. it just isn't for everyone but for our emerging scientists, perfect. It takes a tremendous amount of time and so some things, like history, can't be done on that same level. If we pursued history, Greek, and Latin at the "truly classical" level, the kids would not be pursuing science in the way they are.. I suspect that most kids never pursue a classical education in the sciences.

 

Faith,

Would you mind sharing a bit about what science is/has been like in your homeschool? What specifically do you mean by doing science in a classical way? Do you mean anything other than what WTM lays out? That's my only real exposure to classical (er, neoclassical) science. What you wrote above intrigues me. Please dish. :)

[Hunter]

My youngest child tackled some of Euclid in the original Greek. I wonder if the website is still up. There is no time for neoclassical history and lit, when tackling the classical languages and/or classical sciences and maths!

[Jyniffrec]

Our forefathers did not have as much math and science/technology to master has this generation. A classical education that harks back 200 years isn't even practical. Classical education isn't a "do this or do that" it is an approach to learning that is superior to modern educational theory and follows the natural maturation path of the brain/individual but it's implementation may vary according to subject and may not be able to be pursued to its ultimate degree in every academic area. There's only so much time, mental, and emotional energy in a day and so not everyone can pursue "the ultimate rigorous classical pursuit" in every single subject but yet are classically schooling from the learning approach perspective.

 

It's a means to an end but not the end itself.

 

Faith

 

Hmm...that is thought provoking! I will be thinking over this for awhile and what it means for our family.

[Quiver0f10]

 

I can see why those of us who really like WTM but struggle to implement all aspects of it stay here. After all, WTM ruined our lives! :D We know too much to go back to the other way and we know too little to do it the way we really want to!!! So we hang out here and keep trying to do a better job than we did last year.

 

 

I just love this! I really needed this thread right now.

[Brindee]

I can see why those of us who really like WTM but struggle to implement all aspects of it stay here. After all, WTM ruined our lives! :D We know too much to go back to the other way and we know too little to do it the way we really want to!!! So we hang out here and keep trying to do a better job than we did last year.

 

I just love this!

:iagree: That's a great summary of why a lot of us are here, I think! I also love the wealth of knowledge, and the readiness of others to help. Finding new curriculums, getting questions answered and "trying to do a better job than we did last year!" Yep! :001_smile:

[ArwenA]

Thank you, thank you, thank you for this thread! It has been such a blessing and exactly what I need right now.

 

When I first began homeschooling I followed TWTM to the letter. I used the all the recommended curriculum and schedules. I wanted so desperatly to give my children the best education possible, and I thought I could only do that by following "the book" exactly.

But as the years past I drifted farther and farther from TWTM. I found other resources I liked, read more homeschooling books, met more homeschoolers. We became more eclectic than classical. Looking back I realize that this shift was probably based on the homeschoolers in our area. The few who call themselves "classical" don't do much Latin, or logic, or rhetoric. They follow the 4-year history cycle, and that's about it.

Anyway, I became unhappy with our eclectic, workbook-y approach. I was really drawn to CM and began to try to implement her ideas.

At this point life got really tough, I adopted nine kids, moved house three times, got remarried, converted to Catholicism, was pregnant and gave bith to twins... We spent six months not doing school at all and then did a year of Sonlight just because it was the only thing I could handle. It was fine, we loved the books, but it wasn't the education I really want for my kids.

This year I'm really determined to get back to where I always wanted to be; classical, but not stuck to following anything word for word. I want to make sure we do Latin, Greek, logic, rhetoric, get back on track with chronological history, study the great books, do rigorous math and science.

This thread has really reminded me that I can do it and I'm not alone. Again, thank you from the bottom of my heart.

 

Arwen