Rant - Confidentiality and Pastors

[Highereducation]

I am steaming right now. Two days ago I shared some information with our pastor about dh's potential job loss. I specifically asked the pastor to KEEP IT JUST BETWEEN THE TWO OF US, as it was done solely in connection with some concerns I had as to what would happen in other areas of our lives (worst-case scenario).

 

Last night, dh was at the church. The pastor came up to him, and you can guess what happened next.

 

Dh said he's not annoyed with me - but I can tell that he is. I am really having trouble understanding why someone would breach my trust like that, and oh, am I p*ssed!

 

Perhaps it is time to move on....

[Harriet Vane]

Please go back and TELL the pastor that he breached your trust and you are disappointed. It may be that he forgot that it was to be confidential also from your husband???

 

It was wrong for him to breach confidentiality, but please remember that pastors are human beings and he may not have meant to do this. Either way, if you tell him then he has the opportunity to make this right, and he will hopefully be more careful in the future with you or with others who confide in him.

[Tenaj]

I think you should go to your pastor and discuss this with him. Is it possible that he just assumed that you and your husband were of one mind in this area and that you wouldn't discuss it with him without your husband's knowledge? I usually try to think the best of people, though, so maybe I'm naive. I just can't imagine a pastor trying to cause problems between a husband and his wife on purpose.

 

Praying you can get this resolved quickly and as peacefully as possible.

[Blessedfamily]

Maybe he thought you meant you didn't want other people to know(outside of your family)? He knows your husband is already involved, so is it possible he thought you meant noone else?

Edited April 24, 2009 by Blessedfamily

[Nestof3]

I think you should go to your pastor and discuss this with him. Is it possible that he just assumed that you and your husband were of one mind in this area and that you wouldn't discuss it with him without your husband's knowledge? I usually try to think the best of people, though, so maybe I'm naive. I just can't imagine a pastor trying to cause problems between a husband and his wife on purpose.

 

Praying you can get this resolved quickly and as peacefully as possible.

 

:iagree:

 

Especially is you said, "Can you keep this between us -- I would assume the "us" included your husband since your husband already knows he may lose his job." In fact, I would assume unless you were discussing something your husband shouldn't know about, your husband would be able to talk to your husband about it.

 

Rereading your post, it almost seems like your husband asked you not to tell anyone about it. Is this true? I only mention this because you mentioned your husband not being upset with you. Why would he be unless he told you not to tell anyone about it?

Edited April 24, 2009 by nestof3

[Hillary in KS]

Please go back and TELL the pastor that he breached your trust and you are disappointed. It may be that he forgot that it was to be confidential also from your husband???

 

It was wrong for him to breach confidentiality, but please remember that pastors are human beings and he may not have meant to do this. Either way, if you tell him then he has the opportunity to make this right, and he will hopefully be more careful in the future with you or with others who confide in him.

 

:iagree:

If you had told me something about your dh, and asked me to keep it between the two of us, I would've assumed it would be okay to tell your dh I was praying, or ask if he needed help or to talk. Honestly, it wouldn't have occurred to me to not discuss it with him because it involved him.

 

I'll second (third? fourth?) the suggestion that you go speak with your pastor (not e-mail, phone call, or send a note) in person and clarify what you meant and why.

[Laurie4b]

Confidentiality with pastors is not the same as with a therapist. Therapists are not allowed to have *any* type of relationship with their clients outside of the therapy. That way the confidentiality is chrystal clear. Pastors, on the other hand, have relationships outside of the counseling situation, not only with the counselee, but with their network. If you go to a church that uses the Bible as its standard, there may be some cases in which a therapist would absoluetly keep confidentiality and a pastor might not. (e.g. pregnant teenaged daughter. Most pastors would work hard to get permission to tell parents, but might decide to eventually tell themselves if push came to shove.) Pastors may also have an understanding of spousal relationships that is more "one flesh" in nature than a therapist's standards would be.

 

Pastors should be trusted to be discrete, but the standard is different than from a therapist and what your pastor did would be within pastoral professional standards within the churches I've attended. In fact, he may even have been faulted for being uncaring if he didn't talk to dh. Unless you were specific about keeping it from dh, I think it's normal for the pastor to have assumed that since dh knew, he could or even should talk approach him out of concern and caring.

 

I believe based on what you said that it was a misunderstanding of your expectations, which you stated literally, and his understanding, which he apparently took as "Don't talk to others about this," which he might have understood as a request that he keep this from other people [outside the family], which of course he would have.

 

I would talk with the pastor about that is not what you had in mind when you said, "Please keep it between the two of us." That will be a learning experience for him and he will know to have his radar up the next time someone says something like that so he can clarify. I think you can be honest about your feelings of feeling exposed and betrayed . In other words, even going into it with the understanding that it was probably a misunderstanding, you don't have to stuff your feelings.

[Danestress]

asking our priest to keep secrets from me or talking to him about things that he wouldn't want me to know they talked about. If my husband really truly needed spiritual guidance or prayer and absolutely had to have a "this directly concerns Dana but she would be upset if she knew I talked to you about it" conversation, I would hope he would find a different spiritual leader to talk to besides the pastor who is also *my* pastor. I can't imagine having a conversation with anyone and then saying, "But don't tell my husband I told you that." In that situation, I think I shouldn't have told in the first place.

 

On the other hand, if it were a practical thing like "I don't know how much longer I can continue this ministry because we might have to move," then I would hope my DH would just tell me, "I know we agreed to keep this between the two of us, but I was thinking about telling Pastor Mike because of the ministry thing." Then we could discuss whether that was the right time to share and how important it was to each of us to keep it a secret. I would be pretty bummed if my DH just decided to tell but not tell me he told.

 

I'm sure it never occurred to your pastor that "between us" meant, "Don't tell my DH."

Edited April 24, 2009 by Danestress

[Highereducation]

:iagree:

 

Especially is you said, "Can you keep this between us -- I would assume the "us" included your husband since your husband already knows he may lose his job." In fact, I would assume unless you were discussing something your husband shouldn't know about, your husband would be able to talk to your husband about it.

 

Rereading your post, it almost seems like your husband asked you not to tell anyone about it. Is this true? I only mention this because you mentioned your husband not being upset with you. Why would he be unless he told you not to tell anyone about it?

 

No, dh did not ask me not to tell anyone; in fact, it's already out there amongst our close friends and family.

 

I've gone over and over the discussion I had with our pastor in my mind, and the reason I'm so upset about what he did is because of the context of our conversation. I was voicing my own concerns, i.e. the problems that losing our health benefits could create since I'm currently having some health issues. After I explained my concerns, that's when I asked the pastor to keep it between the two of us, and I followed that with, I don't want dh to have any more stress than he already has.

 

So, of course, after the pastor approached him, then I had to relate the entire conversation, and give him more stress!

 

I appreciate everyone's kind suggestions. I will be talking to the pastor - once I cool down and can be a little more even-minded in my approach.

 

This experience makes me wary of confiding in him again, though, and regardless of the resolution of this issue, I probably won't.

[TXMomof4]

No, dh did not ask me not to tell anyone; in fact, it's already out there amongst our close friends and family.

 

I've gone over and over the discussion I had with our pastor in my mind, and the reason I'm so upset about what he did is because of the context of our conversation. I was voicing my own concerns, i.e. the problems that losing our health benefits could create since I'm currently having some health issues. After I explained my concerns, that's when I asked the pastor to keep it between the two of us, and I followed that with, I don't want dh to have any more stress than he already has.

 

So, of course, after the pastor approached him, then I had to relate the entire conversation, and give him more stress!

 

I appreciate everyone's kind suggestions. I will be talking to the pastor - once I cool down and can be a little more even-minded in my approach.

 

This experience makes me wary of confiding in him again, though, and regardless of the resolution of this issue, I probably won't.

 

I definately would talk to the pastor. I have people in my life that I voice concerns/fears/etc. to while DH is deployed that I would never put on his shoulders. Most of them I *know* will be alright, but it is the fear that can make something overwhelming and I have to get if off my chest. I would be horrified if someone went and told dh all of those things. Generally they are things a) he couldn't do anything about or b) they aren't realistic fears, just things I need to clear out of my head.

 

I would make sure the pastor knew in what capacity you were confiding in him - as a sounding board or really wanting intervention of some sort and maybe apologize for not making it clear to him in the first place. Maybe it's that man need to fix-it that prompted him to tell your dh?

[stripe]

I would talk too. I mean, I can see multiple areas where the couple might be better off talking to their religious leader together, but also where one person might (before or in addition to) want to speak independently. Since it obviously impacts your desire to talk to your pastor about any other issues, it is important to address this.

[elizabeth]

http://www.uslaw.com/library/Criminal_Law/Houston_appeals_court_Church_Christ_Protestants_privilege_communicatio.php?item=231547 This case as discussed here is very troubling to me as the distinction along doctrine lines as to whether confession is sacramental and thus protected . Here is a perfect example of why ,in my opinion and experience as a lawyer, no one should be able to hold him or herself out as a counselour without a state license simply by calling oneself a christian counselour. In some states it is possible to hold oneself out as such without being held to the standards that do apply to licensed practitioners of the secular sort. The states have laws governing privacy and legal privilege that covers all situations between a client and a licensed therapist or counselour. When " pastoral counseling "occurs the lines regarding privacy and more importantly, legally privileged statements by the client may not be protected. This becomes highly problematic in domestic law cases and painfully horrific regarding the seal of the confessional in light of the Catholic church sex abuse cases. FWIW I am a Catholic but am appalled by the use of the confessional seal to protect pedophiles from having criminal charges brought against them. This whole situation is a very difficult one for both priest/penitent or minister/counselour and congregant. I certainly see both sides of confidentiality in this regard . To violate it seems a terrible wrong , to not violate can leave the reporting of abuse and a person's life and safety hanging in the balance. We nearly lost a client to her abuser due to her pastor revealing counseling sessions to the abuser. Unfortunately she misplaced her trust and did not understand that legally her information was not safe. It seems impossible to draw a set of principles that will govern well the conduct of ministers/pastors/priests and that will account for a variety of situations and fact patterns that are likely to arise. Either /or analysis fails here. Edited April 24, 2009 by elizabeth