S/O: Worth it to produce HS Materials?

[asta]

I am spinning this off of a thread on the K-8 board. FoS wrote:

 

Maybe it's just bad business practice to produce homeschool materials. There's no money in it.

 

I agree with this.

 

Frankly, I am a bit stunned by the number of people who purchase things with the intent of reselling them (as opposed to selling them because one realized that it wasn't the right thing for their kid). If DS was in public school, I wouldn't ask for my property taxes back at the end of the year... (maybe that's a bad analogy, but it's all I can think of).

 

I look at curriculum no differently than if I was purchasing a service: I am spending my money to get something I want/need. If I don't want/need it that badly (that I would purchase it only to resell it), why don't I find an alternative?

 

I realize that everyone has a limited budget. But sometimes it seems like people are just... chintzy? I mean, it's 2009: there is a WEALTH of information and materials available for FREE through libraries, the internet, and companies/organizations that produce educational materials. Of course it is simpler to have things neatly packaged and "ready to teach", but perhaps that is why one must pay for them.

 

 

asta

 

(Full disclosure: in teaching HS, I have entered the "you'll need to keep this text as a reference" arena, so perhaps my view is a bit different)

[LaxMom]

I look at curriculum no differently than if I was purchasing a service: I am spending my money to get something I want/need. If I don't want/need it that badly (that I would purchase it only to resell it), why don't I find an alternative?

 

(Full disclosure: in teaching HS, I have entered the "you'll need to keep this text as a reference" arena, so perhaps my view is a bit different)

 

That's how I view it, as well. I also don't purchase books to read for enjoyment with their resale in mind.

 

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum, though, purchasing elementary materials and putting them away for when the boys get to this level... after that, I don't mind passing them along as used materials - I can't hold onto them forever, right? - but, for instance SOTW will be with us for a very long time yet. By the time we're done, the versions we have might be "collectibles". :D

[Ria]

There is little money in it; if you sell to Rainbow Resource you have to discount to them, so you make very little profit if you are self-publishing. As for the reselling, I have no problem with it within reason.

 

I sold my science program (My World Science) both on Rainbow Resource and my own website. I offered a download of the student pages at a discount for families of multiple kids; the agreement was that the downloads were not to be printed for anyone outside the immediate family and that they could not be resold. I still offer the downloads, so if someone buys a teachers manual and needs pages, they can get them.

 

You'd be amazed at how many times I've seen the downloads for sale. I've emailed people about this - it's a violation of my copyright, and I will make a fuss if I see it. Most people have been very kind and immediately dropped their listing, but would you believe I actually had a woman argue with me, claiming that I had no right to limit the resale? Um, excuse me, but the first page of the download states the policy quite clearly, thank you. Faced with violation of the law, she finally backed down, but not without a few choice words for me and how I had ruined the resale value of her investment. Huh?

 

Ria

[Tabrett]

Public school sell text book when they are finished.

 

Maybe this is why so many companies use "work texts" like Alpha & Omega. R&S has work books. They are consumable and can't be reused. I would think the profit would be in the "consumables" and not the textbook. Even computer curriculum's only last so long because of the changes in computer programing.

 

I think living book curriculum's are the one to get hit the hardest. There are no consumables. This is probably why SL updates their curriculum so often. People see the new shiny books and want what they can't get in the used curriculum.

 

As far as TOG, they offer a product that only has 4 levels to buy and no consumables. After 4 years, your customer base is gone! That is probably the biggest marketing problem they have. They are the only curriculum I know that does that. Most other curriculum's have programs for a minimum of 8 years. TOG might make more money if they would divide up their curriculum into 3 cycles and sell each cycle separate. They might have more people try them because the cost will be less, intentionally. I know this would defeat the purpose of having everything for your whole family, but they are a business and need to be profitable.

 

If everybody went to the library to get books to homeschool, nobody would every make any money. KWIM?

 

If you truly want to be profitable, you have to have a consumable "sugar stick" product that people really want and will buy even if they buy the textbook used.

[Rhonda in TX]

As far as TOG, they offer a product that only has 4 levels to buy and no consumables. After 4 years, your customer base is gone! That is probably the biggest marketing problem they have. They are the only curriculum I know that does that. Most other curriculum's have programs for a minimum of 8 years. TOG might make more money if they would divide up their curriculum into 3 cycles and sell each cycle separate. They might have more people try them because the cost will be less, intentionally. I know this would defeat the purpose of having everything for your whole family, but they are a business and need to be profitable.

 

I think they would great expand their market if they would divide it up by levels. My kids are 5th and 6th grade. I don't need lower grammar level, and I'm far enough away from rhetoric that I don't really need that, either. If they could make it more affordable for me, I would definitely use it.

 

As far as reselling - if you no longer have a need for it, why should you keep it?? I don't have most of the kid's picture books from when they were little. I kept a few favorites and got rid of the rest. I've also gotten rid of clothes that don't fit and movies and DVDs we no longer watch. I could go on.

 

I buy curriculum knowing that eventually my kids will no longer need it. Why would I not think about how I will eventually get rid of it?

[asta]

As far as reselling - if you no longer have a need for it, why should you keep it?? I don't have most of the kid's picture books from when they were little. I kept a few favorites and got rid of the rest. I've also gotten rid of clothes that don't fit and movies and DVDs we no longer watch. I could go on.

 

I buy curriculum knowing that eventually my kids will no longer need it. Why would I not think about how I will eventually get rid of it?

 

Oh, I get rid of stuff - I donate it.

 

 

asta

[Night Elf]

I'm living in a house that I'm paying for and using as well. I purchased this house knowing I wasn't going to be using it forever. I use it and maintain it in an excellent condition, knowing someone else will be using it after me. I fully expect to resell this house and make some money from it.

 

Obviously the house will net me a profit after use and the curriculum will not. But both are investments I make for the good of my family.

 

When I buy a textbook or other educational item, I am not purchasing a service. I am purchasing a finished product. If the author wants to offer services to go along with the item, I would pay extra for it. I see a big difference between a service (action) and a thing (property).

[Night Elf]

Oh, I get rid of stuff - I donate it.

 

 

asta

 

That's awesome for you Asta, but it sure does put a very negative light on people who try to get money for their used items like yard sales. Your attitude comes off as holier than thou, sadly.

[Impish]

Some families are on a tight budget, and the way they buy their new homeschool materials in part is by selling their old homeschool materials. Not everyone can afford to simply donate their old curriculum. I mean, sure it would be wonderful if they could, (I know families such as mine would certainly benefit, lol! and then pass it on by donating it to someone else down the line), but when your family has bought curric, needs money for next years curric, the first thing you're going to do is try and sell last years. Its the same thing when buying a new car, new house, etc. For some families, curriculum is a major purchase.

[melissel]

Oh, I get rid of stuff - I donate it.

 

 

asta

 

I'm not really sure how that helps curriculum publishers though. Either way, you're still eliminating a potential customer. And selling used materials helps people too. I'm sure there are plenty of people here who scrimp and save all year to buy their materials and can only afford to buy used.

 

I wish there was a solution. I've only recently reached the position where I can afford to buy items from the publishers in order to support them, and then I'll only do that if I'm positive they'll work for us. Beyond that, the resale of materials is just part of doing business, I think.

[Shasta Mom]

I have no problem selling materials. At all. (respecting copyright laws, of course). No - it may not be a profit-making business but many businesses aren't. I wouldn't be able to buy some of the materials I do buy (new) if I wasn't able to sell some of my used items.

[Murphy101]

I'm living in a house that I'm paying for and using as well. I purchased this house knowing I wasn't going to be using it forever. I use it and maintain it in an excellent condition, knowing someone else will be using it after me. I fully expect to resell this house and make some money from it.

 

Obviously the house will net me a profit after use and the curriculum will not. But both are investments I make for the good of my family.

 

When I buy a textbook or other educational item, I am not purchasing a service. I am purchasing a finished product. If the author wants to offer services to go along with the item, I would pay extra for it. I see a big difference between a service (action) and a thing (property).

 

I agree.

 

I view all education as an investment. It's an investment in my kids future, my future (someone's got to pay for that retirement villa! LOL), in materials, and in my time and in other aspects as well.

 

I don't buy materials planning to ditch them. (the only thing there is less money in than creating these products is resell them. With rare exception, you're not going to make more than you paid for it.)

 

But if I buy something, then I own it, and I have no qualms about reselling it and my reasons are no one's business. Just like if I had a yardsale. If the stuff in it is owned by me legally, it's no one's business why I'm selling it.

 

Personaly I usually try to buy new to get the most updated version (you don't save anything if you get it and find the materials are missing or have to be updated to the point that you would have saved money buying new!) and the longest last for several children down the road.

 

However, our money is always very tight. When looking at something new to purchase, I try my best to research it, and yes, one of the factors is it's resale value. For example, I might consider VT math for my 2nd son. It's really expensive (to me anyways), so it is seriously going to be painful it doesn't work out for him. But not nearly as painful as if I couldn't resell it to recoup some of my loss. No way I'd spend that kind of money knowing I couldn't unload it if neccessary.

 

Ria brings up the issue that software is handled differently than printed material. And a major reason why I rarely purchase downloads or software materials. That and the price is very often not much cheaper than if I bought it already printed, but I have to put the funds/time of printing into it and you either can't resell it or it has no resale value and it always needs updating due to computers changing. (for example, I nearly cried when my old computer went kaput and my rosetta stone wouldn't work with vista)

 

I see no ethical or legal problem with any of this.:)

 

ETA: I actually think donating or reselling does help businesses. For example, I just mentioned that I wouldn't even consider VT if I couldn't resell it. Then there's items that I wasn't sure about and had either given to me or bought used and after that, I felt they were worth buying new and did so. If someone hadn't given me those items or if I hadn't started with it used, I wouldn't have been willing to spend the extra funds on it new.

Edited April 24, 2009 by Martha

[Rhondabee]

Frankly, I am a bit stunned by the number of people who purchase things with the intent of reselling them (as opposed to selling them because one realized that it wasn't the right thing for their kid).

 

asta

 

(Full disclosure: in teaching HS, I have entered the "you'll need to keep this text as a reference" arena, so perhaps my view is a bit different)

 

I'm not stunned, I'm just not that kind of person. I'm always amazed when I go to garage sales and people have the original boxes for things like car seats, even when their kids are in middle school. Just absolutely blows my mind! It never even occurs to me to save something like that to increase its re-sale value; but, different strokes for different folks, you know?

 

I'm also someone who simply cannot have a book and not write in it. I will *never* be able to sell things (we've actually used) for more than shipping, because I simply can't *use* something without it's being really, really *used* - LOL!

 

However, I'm extremely grateful to all those who can use a book without ever making a mark in it, and are willing to sell it to someone like me; and I'll encourage them to continue, as it makes things much easier on my pocketbook. ;)

[specialmama]

Frankly, I am a bit stunned by the number of people who purchase things with the intent of reselling them

 

I have to agree with NightElf. Asta, your judgemental attitude is quite distasteful.

[TxMama]

Frankly, I am a bit stunned by the number of people who purchase things with the intent of reselling them (as opposed to selling them because one realized that it wasn't the right thing for their kid).

 

I look at curriculum no differently than if I was purchasing a service: I am spending my money to get something I want/need. If I don't want/need it that badly (that I would purchase it only to resell it), why don't I find an alternative?

 

 

:iagree:

 

I want the "homegrown" homeschooling curriculum publishers to stay in business! I might resell the books but not the TM or original products from a publisher. I put original products/TM into the catagory that I would put school tuition if my children went to private school.

 

I will resell an item if I purchased it but on closer inspection it was just not going to be a good fit for my family. I might purchase something use if I'm trying something out unseen but once I find a publisher that I want to thrive I prefer to purchase directly from them. They are doing me a service and I want them to continue to provide me that service in the future!

[asta]

Wow.

 

I mean, wow.

 

Of all the things I figured I'd be condemned for in this life, doing what I could to support HS businesses and donating to people who wanted/needed things I was lucky enough to have never entered my mind.

 

I guess it's because I'm so haughty and judgmental that this never occurred to me.

 

 

asta

[melissel]

Frankly, I am a bit stunned by the number of people who purchase things with the intent of reselling them...

 

I look at curriculum no differently than if I was purchasing a service: I am spending my money to get something I want/need. If I don't want/need it that badly (that I would purchase it only to resell it), why don't I find an alternative?

 

I realize that everyone has a limited budget. But sometimes it seems like people are just... chintzy?

 

Of course it is simpler to have things neatly packaged and "ready to teach", but perhaps that is why one must pay for them.

 

Oh, I get rid of stuff - I donate it.

 

 

Really? Do you honestly not see how your words, clever use of italics for emphasis, and overall attitude are not wholly judgmental of most of the posters here? Unnecessarily? And apropos of nothing? I didn't sign on here today to be judged and insulted for my frugal tendencies, especially when I'm killing myself to put money in the bank so I can quit my job and stay home with my kids so I can keep HSing them rather than putting them in school. I'm very happy for you that you can afford to buy everything new and not pinch pennies. We are not all that lucky. If you post here to make judgments, you should probably be prepared to be on the receiving end as well.

[Laura K (NC)]

nt

Edited April 27, 2009 by Laura K (NC)

[Rhondabee]

Wow. I purchase used homeschool materials, and I didn't take asta's comments that way at all.

 

I think you are taking some of her comments out of context. For example, her comment about donating materials was made after someone else implied that asta must be hoarding used curriculum like a packrat. Asta was in no way implying that no one should re-sell, even though the original observation was made that re-selling might make it much more difficult for curriculum providers to stay in business.

[sagira]

I, for one, spent hundreds of dollars on books when I first married dh. I donated many to the local library. I'm thrilled to see I can actually sell some! That just blows my mind, to tell you the truth. I like to buy new or "like new". I've just recently switched to buying some books from the wonderful people here on the Well Trained Mind, and my mom is still mildly horrified that I accepted donated clothes for both myself and dd :001_rolleyes: ("here we would never do that!" she says).

 

I'm just thrilled I could sell some of the books. I think it's great that I could say, sell my MCP Math Teacher's Manual. As the workbook is consumable, I don't expect that.

 

Yes, I use it and I generally don't expect anyone else to want it used. But if they need it, I'd be glad to either sell it or donate it.

[melissel]

Wow. I purchase used homeschool materials, and I didn't take asta's comments that way at all.

 

I think you are taking some of her comments out of context. For example, her comment about donating materials was made after someone else implied that asta must be hoarding used curriculum like a packrat. Asta was in no way implying that no one should re-sell, even though the original observation was made that re-selling might make it much more difficult for curriculum providers to stay in business.

 

Unless Asta's saying that she doesn't understand why people would buy items with the intent to resell for a profit (say, I picked something up for $2 at a used curriculum sale and come straight here to sell it for $20), I don't really see how I could have. It's hard to use words like "stunned" and "chintzy" and likening reselling materials to asking for our money back without offending someone. Clearly I'm not the only person who was reading her statements the same way. And no one was condemning her for donating her materials or doing what she could to support curriculum providers. Of course we all want to do that. The problem is what seems to be the sentiment behind her words.

Edited April 24, 2009 by melissel

[Jenny in Atl]

I've sold out used materials on and off over the years. Never was it with the intention of profit, more trying to scrounged up $ to pay for new stuff for the next year. I tend to buy new (not this year though). I think homeschoolers tend to be frugal (most cases have to be) and being able to either sell used or donate is nice thing, at least I hope so.

[specialmama]

Wow.

 

I mean, wow.

 

Of all the things I figured I'd be condemned for in this life, doing what I could to support HS businesses and donating to people who wanted/needed things I was lucky enough to have never entered my mind.

 

I guess it's because I'm so haughty and judgmental that this never occurred to me.

 

 

asta

 

 

Asta, looking down on others who do not do it your way is not a way to earn praise for being charitable.

[Murphy101]

I'm always amazed when I go to garage sales and people have the original boxes for things like car seats, even when their kids are in middle school. Just absolutely blows my mind! It never even occurs to me to save something like that to increase its re-sale value

 

I have the boxes. I can't afford to not take care of our expensive items. When a carseat is not being used, we clean it up as best we can and put it back in the box, tape it up and put it away until the next runner up needs it. I currently have kids in middle school and in diapers, but really most people store stuff for a decade or more before clearing it out for a yard sale or to move. My BFF just had a yard sale when she moved and she put out all her 17 yr old dd's baby clothes! some still have tags!

 

It has nothing to do with resale value for most. that's just how they store things to prolong their use and get the most out of the items they spend what little money they have on.:)

[Rhonda in TX]

Oh, I get rid of stuff - I donate it.

 

asta

 

I'm glad you can afford to do that. I can't.

 

And, honestly, donating it removes just as many customers as selling it does, so I don't see why that's any better.

[Rhonda in TX]

Wow. I purchase used homeschool materials, and I didn't take asta's comments that way at all.

 

I think you are taking some of her comments out of context. For example, her comment about donating materials was made after someone else implied that asta must be hoarding used curriculum like a packrat. Asta was in no way implying that no one should re-sell, even though the original observation was made that re-selling might make it much more difficult for curriculum providers to stay in business.

 

What I was talking about is that I (and other people) sell things we no longer use all the time. Why should curriculum be any different?

 

And I took her response as a very "holier than thou" attitude. If her object is to support the people who create homeschool curriculum, she shouldn't even donate it! Did she plan to keep it forever when she bought it? She never once thought, "oh, I can donate this when I'm done with it"? How is that any different from me thinking, "I can sell this when I'm done with it"?

[sunflowerlady]

I am one of the people who will only be buying used curriculum this year. In the past, I was able to buy some of my things new, and some used. This year, it will likely all be used.

 

I am so thankful that I am blessed to live in an area with three nice used curriculum sales. I will be having a table at one of them in a few weeks and selling some of my books. They will be marked with very inexpensive prices. While I raise some money to go toward books for my homeschool, other moms will find some good buys. Also, I will buy from other homeschool moms and that will help them have money to buy what they need. Many of them will likely use the money to order new curriculum.

 

When I can afford to do so, I like to buy new books. However, it is just not possible at this time. My dh's hours have been cut at work, and we are struggling. So, I refuse to turn my nose up at the blessings of used curriculum, whether it is buying or selling.

 

I am poor, but I am not cheap or chintzy or tacky.:lol: At least I don't think so.

[Heather in Neverland]

We have to lay some of the blame on the publishers and the lack of marketing technique. If you want to avoid reselling then make your stuff consumable. We use MUS for math and we write on the pages. So now that my little guy is starting Alpha guess what I have to do? Buy more student pages. But other curriculum is created in such a way that when I am done with it, I sell it. If publishers do not want you to do that then they should create their programs as consumables.

 

And for those who liken it to the money spent on publi education, keep in mind that we DO pay taxes for those kinds of things that we never use so in essence, we pay for their education twice.

[dragons in the flower bed]

I agree that there's a line between being frugal and being stingy. Truly, one needs to draw that line carefully when dealing with small companies that we want to see stay in business. I would not go so far as to say that reselling is immoral. I'd say that if a family can afford it, it's morally preferable to buy new from a small mom and pop and used from a giant corporation, but that's as far as I can take such absolutes.

 

As for it being a bad business to get into... well... I disagree... kind of. Bookselling in general is a bad business to get into. Publishers everywhere are suffering. The textbook industry, of which the homeschool market is a subset, is suffering because the internet has functionally replaced many of their materials.

 

To be competitive, you have to offer something the internet can't. Right now that's organization, guaranteed accuracy, and a clean, distraction-free layout. The companies that offer this can turn a profit, even if their schedules are resold, because the homeschool market is expanding and growing exponentially. There will be more homeschoolers next year than there were last year.

 

Besides that, books and a variety of other goods have been sold used for centuries and that hasn't killed the market. In fact, it's kept hundreds of landfills from existing. Reselling a form of recycling.

 

If the curriculum market goes the way of the dodo, it will be the fault of the undercutters. Last year I developed a world geography program using picture books for kindergarteners. I had it up on my website for free download for a few weeks. Then I decided to take it down. Why? We've had people attack our eBay business when we flooded the market with similar products to the attackers at lower prices. We've seen what Wal-Mart has done to our downtown mom and pop shoppes. I didn't want to undercut Five in a Row, WinterPromise, Sonlight. I took it down in solidarity. (We never did raise our eBay prices though. Those mean Nascar sellers can go to heck.)

 

If the homeschool market is going to become a really really free market some time soon (and, unregulated by any sense of union, it will), it's not because buyers resell. It's because a bunch of homeschooling parents who are supported by their spouses can afford to create a great curriculum in their free time and give it away for free.

Edited April 24, 2009 by dragons in the flower bed

[Rhondabee]

but really most people store stuff for a decade or more before clearing it out for a yard sale or to move. My BFF just had a yard sale when she moved and she put out all her 17 yr old dd's baby clothes! some still have tags!

 

:)

 

I'm afraid that's gonna be me with homeschool curriculum that I've bought and haven't used! I'm afraid to get rid of it, because, just as sure as I do, some educational crisis will arise, and I may need it.

[dragons in the flower bed]

We have to lay some of the blame on the publishers and the lack of marketing technique. If you want to avoid reselling then make your stuff consumable. We use MUS for math and we write on the pages. So now that my little guy is starting Alpha guess what I have to do? Buy more student pages. But other curriculum is created in such a way that when I am done with it, I sell it. If publishers do not want you to do that then they should create their programs as consumables.

 

I agree with you, Heather. I think a lot of the problem is that these are parents, not business people; they've had no training in how to survive in any industry, let alone such a brutal one as publishing.

[Heather in Neverland]

I agree that there's a line between being frugal and being stingy. Truly, one needs to draw that line carefully when dealing with small companies that we want to see stay in business. I would not go so far as to say that reselling is immoral. I'd say that if a family can afford it, it's morally preferable to buy new from a small mom and pop and used from a giant corporation, but that's as far as I can take such absolutes.

 

As for it being a bad business to get into... well... I disagree... kind of. Bookselling in general is a bad business to get into. Publishers everywhere are suffering. The textbook industry, of which the homeschool market is a subset, is suffering because the internet has functionally replaced many of their materials.

 

To be competitive, you have to offer something the internet can't. Right now that's organization, guaranteed accuracy, and a clean, distraction-free layout. The companies that offer this can turn a profit, even if their schedules are resold, because the homeschool market is expanding and growing exponentially. There will be more homeschoolers next year than there were last year.

 

Besides that, books and a variety of other goods have been sold used for centuries and that hasn't killed the market. In fact, it's kept hundreds of landfills from existing. Reselling a form of recycling.

 

If the curriculum market goes the way of the dodo, it will be the fault of the undercutters. Last year I developed a world geography program using picture books for kindergarteners. I had it up on my website for free download for a few weeks. Then I decided to take it down. Why? We've had people attack our eBay business when we flooded the market with similar products at lower prices. We've seen what Wal-Mart has done to our downtown mom and pop shoppes. I didn't want to undercut Five in a Row, WinterPromise, Sonlight. I took it down in solidarity.

 

If the homeschool market is going to become a really really free market some time soon (and, unregulated by any sense of union, it will), it's not because buyers resell. It's because a bunch of homeschooling parents who supported by their spouses can afford to create a great curriculum in their free time and give it away for free.

 

I completely agree. I always try to buy directly from the mom and pop company whenever possible even if I pay a few more dollars because I want to support them. If it is a consumable product, I consume it. I don't xerox it and then sell it (I know people who do that and that is dishonest and illegal). I don't sell downloaded PDFs. But if I buy a book like, for instance, the CW manual and then realize it isn't right for us, I resell it. But make no mistake, I never make a profit. Does anyone? :tongue_smilie:

[Rhondabee]

And, I agreed with your comments re: TOG. But, you did say:

 

"As far as reselling - if you no longer have a need for it, why should you keep it??"

 

Implying there are only two options: re-sell, or keep them. Then, asta is attacked for pointing out that she *donates* them (the emphasis being given because it's a third, yet unmentioned, option), as if that's a horrible thing. But, she's probably like me - a very expressive person. Sometimes that doesn't translate well in print. But, whatever.

[specialmama]

And, I agreed with your comments re: TOG. But, you did say:

 

"As far as reselling - if you no longer have a need for it, why should you keep it??"

 

Implying there are only two options: re-sell, or keep them. Then, asta is attacked for pointing out that she *donates* them (the emphasis being given because it's a third, yet unmentioned, option), as if that's a horrible thing. But, she's probably like me - a very expressive person. Sometimes that doesn't translate well in print. But, whatever.

 

I don't think Asta was "attacked", I think people (myself included) simply had to stand up for doing things that are not "her way" of doing things. She was looking down on folks who sell their curriculum. And nobody said or implied it was horrible to donate. Just wanted to clarify. :001_smile:

 

Moving on....

[Ria]

I don't think Asta was "attacked", I think people (myself included) simply had to stand up for doing things that are not "her way" of doing things. She was looking down on folks who sell their curriculum. And nobody said or implied it was horrible to donate. Just wanted to clarify. :001_smile:

 

Moving on....

 

Nah....it was an attack, plain and simple. She's not looking down on anyone. She donates. Others sell. She was surprised at how many people purchase *knowing* that they'll sell it later. I can understand her surprise; it wasn't until I found these boards that it even occurred to me that I could sell items. I never purchased something with the intent of getting a certain amount of money back when I was done with it...I just sold stuff off if it had sat unused for 5 years or so, or I gave it away.

 

Ria

[Haiku]

If I buy curriculum from the creator/publisher, the price I am paying for the finished product includes that value of their time and effort. I have purchased a product, and the product is now mine, and I have no qualms about reselling it when I am done. It's fine to be in solidarity with homeschool publishers. It's also fine to be in solidarity with other homeschooling parents, who are able to homeschool in part because of being able to buy used curricula. There is nothing immoral about participating in the market for used goods. It's not a black market. It's a used market.

 

Aside from the price being prohibitive, my values of reducing waste play a huge factor in my decision to buy used. Most companies are not losing business on me, as I wouldn't buy their materials new just because I can't get them used. I would either buy some other material used or create my own.

 

Asta, I get what you are trying to say, but you did come across as harsh. Donating materials doesn't help/hurt the original publisher any more than reselling does.

 

Tara

[Pixie]

The fact that people resell is not necessarily bad for the publisher of homeschooling materials.

I like Sonlight, I buy it new mostly (except bits and pieces I might collect here or there). I have a huge cart ready to order after our move. The only reason I am able to buy it is because it has a great resale value. I know when we are done with it I will recoup a large precentage of my money that I will in turn use to buy the next core. If I wasn't able to do that, I wouldn't buy from Sonlight at all (and that would be a shame since we love it). So what do you think is best for them: I buy and resell or I don't buy it at all?

[Avila]

I am sure this has been brought up, but one nice thing can come for the publisher when a buyer buys used. I may take a chance and buy something more expensive used that I normally would not even consider buying new. If I like it, I will go to the publisher and buy the next book or level new. So they can get new customers and good word-of-mouth advertising that way.

 

I try to be ethical in my purchases. I try to buy new from the publisher or author when I can. I don't xerox workbooks to sell or things like that. But I have definitely bought and sold used curriculum. And since most people who are selling are taking that money and buying more curriculum with the money, it does even out somewhere.

[melissel]

And, I agreed with your comments re: TOG. But, you did say:

 

"As far as reselling - if you no longer have a need for it, why should you keep it??"

 

Implying there are only two options: re-sell, or keep them. Then, asta is attacked for pointing out that she *donates* them (the emphasis being given because it's a third, yet unmentioned, option), as if that's a horrible thing. But, she's probably like me - a very expressive person. Sometimes that doesn't translate well in print. But, whatever.

 

Nah....it was an attack, plain and simple. She's not looking down on anyone. She donates. Others sell. She was surprised at how many people purchase *knowing* that they'll sell it later. I can understand her surprise; it wasn't until I found these boards that it even occurred to me that I could sell items. I never purchased something with the intent of getting a certain amount of money back when I was done with it...I just sold stuff off if it had sat unused for 5 years or so, or I gave it away.

 

Ria

 

I'm guessing you're both referring to my post, since mine was probably the most heated of the responses. But even if you're not, I'd like to point out again that no one "attacked" because of the donating comment alone. My hackles were raised by the original post, but I wasn't too bothered until Asta's horrified response that she was being condemned for donating her supplies. Who in their right mind, especially on this board, of all places, would condemn someone for a charitable act? I think it's pretty hypocritical to write up a post specifically to express your rather harsh views about people who resell curriculum on a board loaded with people who buy and sell used curriculum, and then feel attacked when some people respond unhappily.

 

If anyone can point me to a definition of chintzy that's a compliment to anyone in this discussion, I'll gladly erase my posts and call it a day.

[unsinkable]

I'm just sayin':

 

If I bought something for $2 that I could turn around and sell for $20, I'd do it. And I'd wish I could do it 1000 more times.

 

My girlfriend has a jewelry & antiques business and she does just that.

[Ria]

I'm guessing you're both referring to my post, since mine was probably the most heated of the responses. But even if you're not, I'd like to point out again that no one "attacked" because of the donating comment alone. My hackles were raised by the original post, but I wasn't too bothered until Asta's horrified response that she was being condemned for donating her supplies. Who in their right mind, especially on this board, of all places, would condemn someone for a charitable act? I think it's pretty hypocritical to write up a post specifically to express your rather harsh views about people who resell curriculum on a board loaded with people who buy and sell used curriculum, and then feel attacked when some people respond unhappily.

 

If anyone can point me to a definition of chintzy that's a compliment to anyone in this discussion, I'll gladly erase my posts and call it a day.

 

I didn't single out a particular post or poster; there were a number of people who immediately assumed the worst of Asta, and I'm not sure that's fair.

 

Look at it this way: when I buy a car, I don't do it with the thought, "Hey - I can use this and then make a good percentage of my money back!" Instead, I think, "I'll use this car for as long as I can and will part with it someday." Now, the end result is the same, right? I'm more than likely going to sell the car. The difference is in the initial intent. I, too, am surprised when people buy curriculum with the *plan* to sell the stuff in order to try to make back some of the money. I have no problems with people selling used curriculum, but it does strike me as odd to purchase something with the thought of resale in mind. It's a subtle difference...I hope what I'm trying to get at is coming across.

 

I didn't mean to offend you. I just think that people were unduly quick to read condemnation into Asta's post.

 

Ria

[Blessedfamily]

...She was surprised at how many people purchase *knowing* that they'll sell it later. I can understand her surprise; it wasn't until I found these boards that it even occurred to me that I could sell items. I never purchased something with the intent of getting a certain amount of money back when I was done with it.....

Ria

 

I didn't know people bought with the intent to resell until I came to this board, also. But with as much as that occurs in the homeschool world, I guess I would've found out soon enough.

 

I don't do it because I'm not comfortable selling online. I read a lot of horror stories here about sales gone bad!

[JennifersLost]

This issue is similar to other issues about "content" that are going on all over the place now that the internet is so prevalent.

 

As a consumer, it's great - there's so much choice and you can find many things so cheap.

 

As a producer of content - a writer, musician, etc., it stinks - most producers of content are seeing their sales plummet.

 

What you will eventually get is a sea-change in the way things are presented to you. People who do the best work, whether it's writing curriculum, producing songs, etc., aren't going to continue to do it for free or little money. They will switch professions, or they will find new ways to hold onto and market their products.

 

I think that what might happen with curriculum is eventually people will put it online and then charge a monthly fee for you to access it. You won't be able to download it, print it out, etc; you will have to come to their website each and every time you use it and you will have to pay for the privilege. That's not going to happen right away; but it's coming down the pike.

 

The same thing will happen in schools. Textbooks will disappear, more work will be done online with proprietary software or website access that is sold per pupil.

 

We're living in a golden age of books and curriculum. Our kids will not be able to school their kids as cheaply as we do with the range of options we have right now. In the future, the dreck will be freely available; you'll have to pay for the good stuff in every category.

[Ria]

I'm just sayin':

 

If I bought something for $2 that I could turn around and sell for $20, I'd do it. And I'd wish I could do it 1000 more times.

 

My girlfriend has a jewelry & antiques business and she does just that.

 

LOL. I once bought a Landmark book at a yard sale for ten cents. I later found out that it was considered rare. I sold it to a collector on eBay for $125. He was thrilled....it was the only Landmark book he didn't own. I was thrilled as well.

 

Ria

[unsinkable]

I didn't single out a particular post or poster; there were a number of people who immediately assumed the worst of Asta, and I'm not sure that's fair.

 

Look at it this way: when I buy a car, I don't do it with the thought, "Hey - I can use this and then make a good percentage of my money back!" Instead, I think, "I'll use this car for as long as I can and will part with it someday." Now, the end result is the same, right? I'm more than likely going to sell the car. The difference is in the initial intent. I, too, am surprised when people buy curriculum with the *plan* to sell the stuff in order to try to make back some of the money. I have no problems with people selling used curriculum, but it does strike me as odd to purchase something with the thought of resale in mind. It's a subtle difference...I hope what I'm trying to get at is coming across.

 

I didn't mean to offend you. I just think that people were unduly quick to read condemnation into Asta's post.

 

Ria

 

Many, many people would NOT buy a car without considering its resale value.

Edited April 24, 2009 by unsinkable
b/c its has an s

[melissel]

I didn't single out a particular post or poster; there were a number of people who immediately assumed the worst of Asta, and I'm not sure that's fair.

 

Look at it this way: when I buy a car, I don't do it with the thought, "Hey - I can use this and then make a good percentage of my money back!" Instead, I think, "I'll use this car for as long as I can and will part with it someday." Now, the end result is the same, right? I'm more than likely going to sell the car. The difference is in the initial intent. I, too, am surprised when people buy curriculum with the *plan* to sell the stuff in order to try to make back some of the money. I have no problems with people selling used curriculum, but it does strike me as odd to purchase something with the thought of resale in mind. It's a subtle difference...I hope what I'm trying to get at is coming across.

 

I didn't mean to offend you. I just think that people were unduly quick to read condemnation into Asta's post.

 

Ria

 

Thanks Ria, I do get that, and I wasn't offended by your post at all. I also see your line of thinking, totally. Unfortunately, the original and subsequent posts were a little more strongly worded than yours were, so I think some backs are up for that reason.

[unsinkable]

LOL. I once bought a Landmark book at a yard sale for ten cents. I later found out that it was considered rare. I sold it to a collector on eBay for $125. He was thrilled....it was the only Landmark book he didn't own. I was thrilled as well.

 

Ria

 

Thread hijack...which one was it?

[Blessedfamily]

Many, many people would NOT buy a car without considering its resale value.

 

I never buy a car without good resale value, but I don't know why. I NEVER trade in, and always keep a car until it dies. :001_smile:

[Ria]

Thread hijack...which one was it?

 

The Mysterious Voyage of Captain Kidd.

 

Who knew? LOL. It sat on my shelf for years. The kids thought it was dull. :)

 

Ria

[JennifersLost]

BTW - my take comes from watching what's happening to dh's business. He writes computer games. They sell for about $20.00 a pop. When he sells them through an online storefront that sells lots of people's games, they take about half and he gets half.

 

Then Amazon got into the mix, took over one of the biggest storefronts and dropped all the prices (without asking any developers) to $9.99. Now, instead of getting about $9.00 per sale through the storefront, dh was going to get $4.00. Older products they priced at $6.99 - his take would be about $2.00.

 

It nearly put dh out of business.

 

But he came up with an alternate plan. Now he doesn't sell through any storefronts. You can only buy his games from him. He put the price right back up and is standing his ground; you want a game of his quality - you pay for it.

 

I think curriculum developers will eventually make similar choices; they'll have to in order to stay afloat. If they put out one textbook that people can sell over and over again, they can't stay in business.

 

Don't get me wrong; I don't fault anyone for re-selling their curriculum and I don't think any of us need to worry about it. Curriculum publishers are in business to sell curriculum and they're going to figure out a way to make that happen no matter what we do. It's simple evolution - the ones that figure out how to keep charging people will stay afloat and the others will go out of business. I expect to see most things only available online for a fee in the next 5 - 10 years.