OT- Any Certified Teachers out there?

[Heather in Neverland]

I need your help .

 

Even though my first class in my doctoral studies just started two days ago, the university expects me to come up with a topic for dissertation ALREADY!

 

Luckily, there are SO MANY things wrong with public education, that I have plenty to choose from. But one of the topics that is a particular thorn in my side, and one I am hoping you will help me with is that of...drum roll.... new teacher preparation. I know many of you here went to college for teaching and have been through the education courses (and may some day have sons or daughters that will go through it) so I'd like to get your opinion on it.

 

I personally believe, based on my own experiences and that of my former colleagues, that colleges and universities do a very poor job of preparing students to be teachers. The attrition rate of teachers in their first 3 years is extremely high. Sure I learned a lot about my subject matter in college but I felt my actual education courses were a big fat waste of time.

 

The most I learned about how to teach while still in college was during student teaching and that was only for a semester (which was not enough). During my first year of a real teaching job I felt like I had been thrown to the wolves! I feel that I had to learn about teaching "on the fly." Some may say "so what?" But think about it....a neurosurgeon doesn't learn about neurosuregery "in theory" only and then they just send him out to do surgeries after a couple of tries at it! We are talking about our children and their education! We are talking about the future of our nation and the prevailing attitude is that what is going on with teacher preparation is good enough and it's not. People want to BLAME teachers but they are not interested in better-PREPARING teachers.

 

My dissertation has to be a "contextual" one and not just a "research" one as that want us to write about ideas that could possibly be implemented and not just talked about and my idea is that teacher preparation needs to be revamped. Teachers that are poorly prepared often become inadequate teachers and then students miss out on learning opportunities (unless their parents take them out and homeschool them!:D).

 

SOOOOO, after that huge introduction, here are the questions I am supposed to ask of my fellow current/former teachers who have been through this teacher preparation process:

 

- Do you think this would be an interesting topic for the educational community at large?

- Would a research study/dissertation contribute to the field of education and/or bring about social change?

- Is this topic significant or important to the field of education?

- Any other opinions or anecdotes you'd like to share? Feel free to be completly honest!

 

THANK YOU!!!!

[mdhomeschool]

Greetings,

Yes, I think you are on the right track that teacher preparation needs a major revamp. Among my colleagues, I don't know of anyone who felt they had been adequately prepared for the job they were being sent to do. It is an interesting topic because I'm not sure teachers *can* be adequately prepared. I believe this because no matter what your experience as a student teacher, it can't compare to that first day when you are in charge of your own class.

 

Having said that, I am rethinking it a bit... Maybe it is possible to positively change the level of preparedness, but it would have to be pretty radical. It's a matter of ditching most of those lame courses on educational theory, history, blah blah blah, and making practicums much more wide-spread, in my opinion.

 

Not sure if that helps, but I agree that this topic is significant for education, as we need more and more teachers to fill the positions in our area. Also, the way "emergency certified" teachers are trained is a big issue (those who don't have formal education training in college, but come in to fill a desperate need in a school and get certified afterward).

 

Best of luck to you!

Kirsten

[Chris in VA]

My backround--

I have my B.S. in Early and Middle Childhood Education from The Ohio State University. I never got certified, b/c I ran into academic trouble in the last year, but was able to finish with a degree. (It was my boyfriend's fault--that's my story and I'm stickin' to it!)

 

We did an enormous amt of field education--it was a fine program as far as that was concerned. Starting with the second quarter of school, Ed students participated in no less than 5 field-based placements before doing their 9 week student teaching. Length of placement varied from Freshman Early Experience's 5X a week (morninings) for 8 weeks to other, 2 or 3 times a week for an hour or two placements. We had debriefing-type meetings also, along with methods classes, content classes, and professional development classes. We also had to take basic education requirements that just about everyone at OSU has to take, as well as Educational Theory and Practice classes (things like philosophy of ed, etc).

 

If I were going to write your dissertation, I would look at various programs around the country, perhaps even comparing 3 countries (I remember reading an excellent book about Preschool in 3 Cultures--it challenged my view of early ed) or so. There are new programs that give a Master's degree for a 5 year program, which includes an entire year of mentored teaching experience (student teaching). There are programs that send the student teacher overseas for a semester (df's kid is in Australia now!). There are programs that take people who have completed their degree in a content area, like Biology, and give them a year's worth of training, then certify them.

 

I think you'd have to be very specific, perhaps comparing across the spectrum of preparatory programs, and finding results for best teacher retention, best outcomes for students, and/or best teacher satisfaction (which is not the same as retention, as some quit, not because of dissatisfaction or discouragement, but because of low salary or other life changes).

 

Perhaps you can narrow it down to one kind of preparation and see the outcomes--or just compare two types of programs, say, how does getting a degree in a content area then going for the certification compare with the traditional 4 year prep? If you did that, you'd have to compare upper level teachers, because Elementary teachers are generalists, and I don't think it would be a fair comparison.

 

Anyway, I'm rambling. Email or PM me if you want more ideas.

[hana]

I'm not currently certified, but I am a teacher educator; if you want my opinion, let me know. ;)

 

I'd be a little concerned about your program asking you to consider dissertation topics so soon. This is to their benefit, not yours (i.e., the sooner you commit to a topic, the more likely you are to complete your dissertation in a timely manner compared to your dissertation topic coming out of your doctoral studies).

[Sandy in Indy]

Bravo for you for working on your doctorate. I finished my Masters and said, "done!"

 

I clearly remember my student teaching supervisor telling me the first day I arrived..."Forget everything they tried to teach you. Now you'll learn how to teach." And it really was true. So much of the theory of teaching from the college classroom failed to make it as reality in the teaching classroom. I learned more in that semester than in the other 3.5 years. Wish it could have been longer...I might have been a much better teacher.

 

Yes, I finished and taught for 5 years before I left to be a full-time mom. Yes, I finished my Masters to preserve my lifetime teaching license in Indiana. Do I feel qualified to step into today's classroom after being out for over 20 years? Absolutely not (nor would I want to).

[Heather in Neverland]

I'm not currently certified, but I am a teacher educator; if you want my opinion, let me know. ;)

.

 

I would LOVE your opinion!

[Mama Lynx]

 

- Do you think this would be an interesting topic for the educational community at large?

- Would a research study/dissertation contribute to the field of education and/or bring about social change?

- Is this topic significant or important to the field of education?

- Any other opinions or anecdotes you'd like to share? Feel free to be completly honest!

 

THANK YOU!!!!

 

I don't know if I can be of any help to you. I am not a certified teacher. I quit my studies at the student teaching phase, because I realized that my preparation was inadequate. I figured if I was going to be thrown to the wolves, better to wait until I was at least several years older than the high school children I was training to teach, with some real-world experience of managing kids under my belt.

 

Yes, I think it would be an interesting topic for the educational community. Yes, I think it's extremely significant, and important to the field. I think that teacher preparation is *one* of the biggest problems with public education today.

 

My education classes were a complete waste of time. The only things I learned there were 1) how to make a lesson plan, 2) how to use an overhead projector. Oh, I guess I did learn something about the history of public education, but it certainly was not a complete history. We learned *nothing* that would really prepare us for working in the classroom. I was 22, and when I realized that the next step was to walk into a Dallas ISD high school as a student teacher, I bailed and went back to my office job.

 

I'm thrilled to hear about some of the better programs the other posters are discussing. I think it would be fascinating to examine the different programs, along with the attrition rates of teachers.

 

Good luck!

[ekarl2]

Heather,

 

I think it's a GREAT topic! I did my secondary English credential at NC State about two years ago. I joked with many people that my subbing experience (1.5 years) would account for more time in the non-collegiate level classroom than all my education professors put together! It did!

It would contribute to the education field if it at least makes a committee realize that ACTUAL (non-collegiate level) experience is something that should be considered when hiring someone to teach methods, etc.

I learned absolutely NOTHING of import in my methods class. Thank the Lord my mother is a teacher with 34 years' experience and I'm her clone! ;-)

[TwinMominTX]

Here in Texas they allow people with degrees, but no formal education degrees to teach certain classes that are hard to fill/need teachers, etc.

 

What is the attrition rate between trained teachers and the "untrained" teachers? Is it as high? Higher?

 

TK

[jmgconner]

- Do you think this would be an interesting topic for the educational community at large?

- Would a research study/dissertation contribute to the field of education and/or bring about social change?

- Is this topic significant or important to the field of education?

- Any other opinions or anecdotes you'd like to share? Feel free to be completly honest!

 

THANK YOU!!!!

 

BS in Ed, Certified Teacher, taught 1st and 7th grades in public school setting. I answer "YES" to all of the above. Like many have mentioned, the methods courses were complete jokes. I learned how to write a lesson plan. That did NOT help me in any way. First of all, the school I taught at purchased very scripted curriculum and all I had to do was the follow the teacher's manual. I did not have to write lesson plans. Student teaching was amazing. I think it should be a 2-3 year long process, not 18 weeks.

[percytruffle]

I am a NYS certified art teacher with a BS and an MS and teaching experience in both public and private schools. Yes, I think there are changes that could be made to teacher education programs that would be beneficial. I applaud you for addressing this issue.

 

I found the most helpful courses I took were part of my Master's program. They were things like Advanced Child Psych and Classroom Management. Even though it is a source of irritation to most, I think NY is wise to require Master's level education for permanent certification. That said, I learned so much more from my graduate courses because I was teaching at the time and had some experience and an environment, my classroom, in which to practice and observe what I was learning. Those students in my master's courses who completed their BS and went right on for their MS were at a disadvantage. They were just "getting it over with" whereas I was eating it up so I could impliment it.

 

Most of the courses I completed that had to do with the educational part of the degree(s) were beneficial. I didn't find any of them to be useless, but there was so little application, so little hands-on learning experience. There needs to be more, most definately! A few weeks of supervised student teaching is not sufficient. Ideally, each teacher college would have a self-contained school on campus where education students could observe regularly and participate regularly under the supervision of truly superior teaching professionals. The education students need to have teaching modeled for them and they need to practice, practice, practice.

 

Best of luck to you.

[hana]

I'll pm you later tonight when I actually have time to write. I do think this is exciting work you are proposing. :)

[ABQmom]

I have a BS in elementary education from Baylor University. I taught 3rd and 4th grade for six years before I married.

 

I think you're topic is a great one. We did have quite a few classes from our Sophomore year on up that put us in the classroom observing. Those times were very helpful. My methods classes were a waste of time. My curriculum class taught me how to write a lesson plan, and I used that knowledge. The assertive discipline class we all took the week before we were sent out to do student teaching was the best preparation I had for teaching. Student teaching was great, but it was too short. Then wham!, I graduated at 22 and had a room full of learning disabled or below grade level fourth graders. I was not as prepared as I should have been. Teaching was a whole lot more than just bulletin boards and how nice and inviting my room looked!

 

I remember how shocked I was the first time a young mother told me that she didn't know how to discipline her child. I thought, I'm only 22 years old, and not a mother yet, and you want me to tell you how to train your child at home?" I was so unprepared for how to deal with parents. If it hadn't been for some very kind older teachers teaching alongside of me and helping me through it all, I would never have made it through that first year.

 

After all the reading and researching I have done on my own since I had my own children, I feel I'd make a much, much better classroom teacher today.

 

Again, your topic is wonderful. Go for it!

[Heather in Neverland]

These replies are awesome and giving me A LOT to think about!!!

[snickelfritz]

I was able to start teaching with a non-teaching degree. I have an engineering degree. Because I had that and I jumped through some hoops that the state set up, I received my certification to teach math and science. One of the hoops was to create a video of me "pretend teaching" a "pretend" class. :rolleyes:

 

While I was going through the process of taking the certification tests, I did take 3 education courses. I suppose they helped me pass the test on "teaching stuff."

 

It was the new art teacher who finished her education degree that got in trouble for duct-taping a students mouth shut and telling another student that a teacher would "rip them a new one" if they went through with some sort of misbehavior.

 

ETA: The most helpful class: Educating the Exceptional Child.

[lottie j.y6s4ly]

I have a lifetime teaching certificate. I only taught two years until my 1st kid was born. I taught 2nd grade in Alvin, Texas. I do not believe I received proper preparation except for one semester before student teaching. We called this methods teaching. Well, and during student teaching, of course. Also, when first teaching I was given a scope and sequence and just expected to cover it. I was told the math curriculum was no good so don't use it. I needed to come up with my own. I did come up with my own but I think having teaching manuals with lessons and ideas is very helpful to a new teacher. Actually, I did this for all subjects. I just had to figure out how to teach and cover every topic. This was very frustrating. I've been home for 10 years. I've been homeschooling for almost 6 yrs. I say all the time if I could go back now that I could really do a great job. I finally feel that I know how and what to teach. I truly believe that experience is how teachers learn to teach. Maybe all teachers should homeschool several years before going into a classroom....lol. ok, maybe not.

 

Dawn

[Tracey in TX]

I'm certified in TX. The education classes were worthless, IMHO. The best preparation was the morning/wk I volunteered in an actual classroom. A non-parent with academic theory is unsuited for being fed to the proverbial wolves. We're doing our new teachers, their potential students and the taxpayer parents a disservice with the current teacher prep program.

 

We need to allow our young college students to take a "teacher track" and specify early in their university experience. Don't waste time in classes which aren't relevant to early ed, if that's the interest. I was mandated to take TX History and art education. Neither interested me and have NEVER used it--even with my own children. To waste a semester in an ego-centric state history minimizes how a state fits into world history; art education for the "just in case you're in a rural one-room classroom..." again wastes valuable time.

 

Comparing how we prepare our students for future careers compared to their worldwide counterparts would be fascinating. Giving currently acceptable, effective discipline tools is critical. Equally important to the student is the ability to handle today's parents! That's a skill which most young adults haven't yet acquired, but could benefit from a mentor's experience. Also, develop a valid mentor program--maybe in lieu of extraneous college classes.

 

Good luck!!

[St. Theophan Academy]

I got my BA in Spanish, and went into teaching as a second choice career. I was at a college that did not allow you to get a degree in education (something I wish all colleges would consider) and had a very good education department for certification. I completed all of my teacher cert. courses in my senior year and crammed a few in the summer after I graduated. I was not initially certified though, because I found a teaching position half way through my senior year, at a private school that did not care if I was officially certified by the state. Since we were poor broke people (my husband was a graduate student at the time) I decided I needed the job more than the certification - the only thing I lacked for cert. was to student teach and that would mean not taking the job for that fall. Since the opportunities for elementary school Spanish teachers were not exactly huge, I could not turn down the position! That said, after two years of "real" teaching I was able to retroactively receive my certification, so I was a certified teacher eventually :) I always thought it was funny that the state thought a semester of student teaching was equal to 2 full years of classroom teaching.

 

I guess I would argue the exact opposite of Tracey in TX - I think the most important thing for a teacher is to have a good broad education - a teacher track does not make someone ready to teach a subject. The techniques of teaching can not truly be taught - but a person who really knows science or history or mathematics and is passionate about it can teach it - whether they have a teacher's degree or not. The head of our education department always said the most important thing for a teacher is to know the field you will be teaching. That is why you could not major in education at our college. You had to learn a field first, then take the education courses (most of which I considered a waste of my time). The application courses were the only ones I got much out of - and I would not have even considered teaching if I had to take much more in terms of typical education courses. I agree that the only real way to become a good teacher is real teaching - not wasting more time in classes that are mostly focused on social agendas.

 

That is my 2 cents :) Anne Marie

[partyof5]

I have my M.Ed. with a concentration in Special Ed. I went for a dual-certification in English Teaching so that I would be prepared for everything. Not so much, as it turns out. I taught 7th grade Language Arts for a little less than 5 years (never returned after my 1st baby--that's another story for another time).

 

While I can give credit to my University for requiring a year-long internship as a student teacher, the experience came with a mentor...a full-time teacher who coached me on a daily basis. I took over some of her classes throughout the year and she helped me. In stark contrast, my first "real" job as a teacher was like being thrown into the lion's den...no mentor, 30 kids per class, 5 classes a day. No common planning time with anyone who did anything to help. I looked for help, but many were too busy with their own extra-curricular and family commitments. I was soon pressured to take on extra commitments like coaching teams and such to boost my review at year's end.

 

I think that to make the teacher preparation really worthwhile, there needs to be some follow-up in the hiring schools as well, such as mentoring programs. I think the education courses in most colleges are certainly valuable, and the practical in-class training is important, but the transitioning help is non-existent. I am not sure that the teacher-prep programs can be held completely accountable for this.

 

Just some thoughts based on my single experience... best wishes to you on your journey!!

[Jann in TX]

Many 'worthless' education classes--learning to teach during student teaching...I went against the grain at the time and took content area course for my electives--this actually kept me from getting a teaching job my first year out of college. I had too many math credits for a 5th grade math teacher!

 

I've taught elementary special ed (EMH self-contained), Jr High Math and Science and High school Math and Science. I've also homeschooled for nearly 9 years! I must add the invaluable experience of being a private tutor for the past 25 years--it has taught me HOW students think about Math--and has made me a better teacher.

 

If your dissertation will be based on elementary ed. then I think you have chosen a great topic. When it comes to Middle School and High School teaching the waters have been muddied by the 'No child left behind act'. Teachers must now IGNORE the text books and especially in Texas, they are only allowed to teach from the state objective list. Every lesson they present must be directly tied to a state objective. Unfortunately the state's objectives were not written by educators! The objectives are also 'incomplete' and do not represent a well-rounded curriculum. While the objectives were originally designed to prove/show that the teacher had taught the curriculum effectively--school officials have seriously LIMITED actual teaching because test scores are linked to $$$$. The best teacher in the world is now being limited. In Texas this is one of the main reasons why teachers leave the profession--it used to be lack of preparation--but not any more.

[Kristen in NC]

Heather,

 

I am not a certified teacher but dh is. He went through the NCTeach program in 2000. It was (I think still is) a special program for lateral entry teachers. They spent their summer taking education classes for 40 hrs/week, then started teaching in the fall. They had to attend a class one evening a month for that first year I think. Since you are in NC, I thought you might be interested in comparing lateral entry to teachers who received a traditional education degree.

 

BTW, my husband is still working as a Chemistry teacher. He's done very well, though his heart isn't really in the public education system. It's one of the reasons we homeschool.

[WTMindy]

I have often thought that a person should student teach at the beginning of their program so that they don't get all the way through and realize that they hate it. I know many fellow teachers who quit after a couple of years because they realized it wasn't what they thought it was. Classroom observation (which I did have to do in early classes) is NOT the same as being responsible for it all on your own. I'm convinced that nothing I learned in my ed classes helped me in my student teaching. It was the doing it that helped me to learn!

 

I think it sounds like a great research topic.

[mom2abcd]

I USED to be certified. In the state I graduated in, it's pretty rigourous to keep up your certification. When I became a stay-at-home mom I took classes and paid $$$$ and kept my certification for several years, but finally gave up.

 

My BS is in Elementary Education. I taught for four years plus in parochial schools and have homeschooled three.

 

I think your topic is interesting. Hopefully others would be interested in learning how things could be changed for the better. If you had enough "testimonies" or "proofs" then it may bring about social change.

The topic should be important to educators, school board members, parents, voters, etc.

 

Most educators who end up being good ones are smart enough to learn on their own to find a mentor teacher or two, etc. That seems to be where the real learning takes place. One concern I have about many people I have seen over the years who trained as teachers is that they are very low in social intelligence. Someone should have stopped them early in their course of training and suggested they pursue a different career. These people trained in education mean well, but they just don't have the skills and gifts to make a good teacher. Unfortunately, many times kids are the ones who suffer. (I know that's why many of us have ended up homeschooling our children-- no patience with incompetent/uncaring teachers.)

 

Just a thought on another angle you might want to pursue.

 

God's blessings on your new educational endeavors!

[Wildiris]

I'm currently considering getting a teaching credential after 12 years of home schooling. What I've found in CA is that one can get a credential online and do student teaching and observation through a local state university. Curiously, the online program requires more student teaching than taking classes on site at a university. In CA many of the teacher preparation classes are directed at teaching in a multi-culture setting, ESL and child development. So far as I can tell very little instruction is given on how to teach once in the classroom. It is more like on the job training as a student teacher. The whole process is pretty fast. One can get a credential in 12 months. Unfortunately, my experience as a home educator amounts to zero in a credentialing program, and the attitude of one credential program was down right hostile to the idea of a home school parent becoming a teacher. But it sound like after reading all of these posts that some experience is better than none. There also seem to be a lot of tests to become a teacher, and I understand why and how these test came about, but I'm not sure all of these test and preparation programs mean a good teacher comes out the other end. I guess one is expected to learn the art of teaching during their student teaching and finding a great mentor, or at home?

 

Wildiris

[Colleen in SEVA]

Yes yes yes and yes!!!

 

I am a certified teacher in NC, and the training I received at Appalachian State (which was a TEACHING COLLEGE for most of its history for goodness sake) did absolutely NOTHING to prepare me for the classroom.

 

Nothing. Not one single thing. Every required content area (ie history) class was a repeat of a class I had taken in high school, and the classes through the College of Education were the absolute biggest waste of time! I graduated with a 3.85 GPA while working full time, if that tells you anything.

 

Now -- I have a friend who taught in Oregon, and her situation is not the same at all. She actually had classes in how to teach, how to manage a classroom, how to work with curriculum. I had none of that.

 

My class on "How To Teach North Carolina History" consisted of 4 or 5 actual meetings of the class (the teacher was really busy that semester, so she wanted us to work independently), during which time she briefly discussed the book on NC history that we were to be outlining. We then had to turn that book into a syllabus; I took the number of pages in the book and divided by the number of classes. I got an A in the class. Somehow that qualifies me to teach NC history?

 

Then there was class 3850, which was supposed to be about HOW to teach literacy, but the 3 joint teachers spent the ENTIRE semester having us debate "What is literacy". It would seem that it doesn't have to do with reading -- teaching a child to hunt food is teaching him to be literate in some countries (this debate dragged on for weeks). Somehow that qualifies me to teach kids to read?

 

Or maybe it was the class during my "block" (the semester to prepare us for student teaching) in which the professor read children's picture books to us. Sure, it was an easy A (all we had to do was keep track of the books, review them, look up the reading level, and add some other books to be sure we got some from different reading levels).

 

I saved my notes from college. I had SEVERAL classes that the entire semester's worth of notes taken in class fit onto less than 2 notebook pages.

 

Oh, I could go on all day. I will say one good thing about my time and money invested in my teaching degree. It gave me the confidence to homeschool because I know that classroom teachers are NOT more qualified to teach children than their parents based solely on having a degree. I once told someone that I was qualified to teach my son because I had a 5-year degree in his development up to that point. ha ha

 

I think this would be a worthwhile research project, and I would like to think that it WOULD matter to the educational community, and that it WOULD help to at least get administrators talking about making change. If you would like to use me as a research subject, I would love to help!