Best Math Curriculum for College Prep

[LUV2EDU]

Which math curriculum do you think is the best for preparing children for college? What are their Pros and Cons?

 

If you choose "Other" on the poll, please post the curriculum.

 

Thank you.

Edited April 15, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[sagira]

I'd be interested in reading the answers, especially "others" as none of the choices are in my future plans :bigear:

[Pamela H in Texas]

I don't think there necessarily IS a best overall. I think it really depends on the student as well as implementation. However, though I'd use Abeka in the lower grades and would consider TT for certain students/situations, I generally would not choose any of those math programs for most jr high and high school students.

 

But I can't say what I WOULD use without knowing the student.

 

One thing I can say is that I am willing to move around a little bit. I mean, Algebra I and II should probably be the same program (especially if you use only one--but we don't). But generally I'm okay with picking and choosing. Doing one thing for Algebra I and II, another for Geometry, this for PreCalculus and that for PreAlgebra. It has worked fine for us. I like picking and choosing based on our needs. But we do use more than one program per level so that probably makes a difference also.

 

Sorry I don't have a cut and dry answer.

[Melinda]

We have not gotten this far yet, but plan to use Art of Problem Solving classes for sure and probably Video Text/possibly TT or Chalkdust when we get to that point.

[LisaKinVA]

I'm voting for Chalkdust... we just started down this path this year, and so far, so good. Praying for its continued success all the way down the line!

[joannqn]

We aren't there yet but I chose other because it depends on the student and teacher. It doesn't matter how good the program is if it is taught in a way that the student doesn't understand. Further, if the student needs help, the teacher (whether it be mom, dad, or a tutor) needs to be able to understand and teach the method expected in the book.

[Matryoshka]

You might want to post this over on the high school board, as I think you might get more response there, and expand your poll to include Lial's, Foerster's, Dolciani, Chalkdust/Larson, Jacobs, and Videotext, as those get mentioned quite a bit there - unless there's some reason you want to limit your choices to the three mentioned. There's also Art of Problem Solving (very challenging) and Life of Fred (non-traditional).

 

You might also want to consider if you want/need some kind of video teaching. Many but not all of those include it (or it can be gotten separately).

 

I've been obsessing a little this year as to "what next?!" as we come to the end of elementary math, and am planning on Foerster's with CD-ROM tutor for one dd and Life of Fred for the other, as I think that's what's going to line up best with their different learning styles - but I'm leaving lots of room to adjust in case I've got it wrong!

[LUV2EDU]

Is Chalk Dust Company's PreAlgebra as good as it looks?

 

I really enjoyed looking at the PreAlgebra Video Demo. The Video was on Order of Operations. The instructor really knows how to explain mathematical concepts.:001_smile:

[LUV2EDU]

You might want to post this over on the high school board, as I think you might get more response there, and expand your poll to include Lial's, Foerster's, Dolciani, Chalkdust/Larson, Jacobs, and Videotext, as those get mentioned quite a bit there - unless there's some reason you want to limit your choices to the three mentioned. There's also Art of Problem Solving (very challenging) and Life of Fred (non-traditional).

 

You might also want to consider if you want/need some kind of video teaching. Many but not all of those include it (or it can be gotten separately).

 

I've been obsessing a little this year as to "what next?!" as we come to the end of elementary math, and am planning on Foerster's with CD-ROM tutor for one dd and Life of Fred for the other, as I think that's what's going to line up best with their different learning styles - but I'm leaving lots of room to adjust in case I've got it wrong!

 

Unfortunately the poll only accepts 4 selections. This is why I typed "Other". I also asked the posters to mention the curriculum if they select "Other".

 

How do I get the Administrator to move this thread over to the High School board?

Edited April 16, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[Guest Katia]

The best college prep math curriculum is the one that works the best for your student!

 

Right now, we are using a mix of Teaching Textbooks and Life of Fred and so far they are working well. This is for my youngest dd.

 

My older dd used 'some' TT but didn't understand it or get very far in it. She switched to LOF and did great with it. As a college freshman this year, she got an "A" in her required math class.

 

My ds did community college math classes for high school. Worked great for him, with the added benefit that these classes/credits transferred to 4yr uni.

[Matryoshka]

Unfortunately the poll only accepts 4 selections.

 

That's weird. I thought the polls had up to 10 selections?? (only from reading other ones, not that I've ever made one myself... )

[tricia]

I've had 2 so far go to college and do very well in math. They both used Saxon all the way through. My next child who is 18 tested very high on the ACT and she too did Saxon. Hope this helps.

[LUV2EDU]

That's weird. I thought the polls had up to 10 selections?? (only from reading other ones, not that I've ever made one myself... )

 

The number 4 is listed when you select the poll. However, maybe the computer allows you to change that number. :001_smile:

[LoriM]

The best college-prep math is the math that your student does (actually DOES--first battle), does well (works corrections, keeps good notes, refers back to previously learned material to work new material, reviews often), and does well with (scores high on external testing--like SAT or ACT).

 

Does--Does Well--Does Well With.

 

After that, all the math is the same. There is math you know, and math you don't know yet. That's it. So, find the book that has some math they know, and pulls them along with math they didn't know yet, until they do know it. Then get the next book. :)

 

Math is BY FAR the easiest course to homeschool of ALL courses to homeschool through high school. It is also BY FAR the easiest subject to FALSELY move forward before a child is ready.

 

Think about it...if your child couldn't write a paragraph, you wouldn't ask them to write an essay! Yet, we routinely take kids who don't know their math facts, can't manipulate fractions with numeracy, and ask them to learn Algebra. :)

 

So, start with math they know. Then work on "the next thing" every single day. Every. Single. Day. Even if (especially if!) math is not their favorite subject--or yours.

 

Anyway, there are tons of new curriculum choices on the market that fit the various needs of the educator and the student. Video presentations, solution guides, online-access to teachers or tutors, and even online courses...just do whatever you must to make math work for your family situation.

 

I have two daughters. The older one is a mathematics major graduating in December. She told me point-blank when she was 13 years old that she would "never" be a mathematician like her mother. She was a writer, and an artist, and just didn't think mathematically. She did NO math that year. NONE. But she still managed to finish plenty of math for college, and to do beautifully in school thus far. She is right--she's nothing like me. She actually has a 4.0 GPA. (LOL!)

 

That child used EVERY curriculum. She had Saxon Algebra 1, A Beka Algebra II, Jacobs Geometry, BJU PreCalculus, MUS Trigonometry, Calculus (Larson et al) and a Statistics textbook leftover from my undergrad :)...then she took College Algebra, PreCalculus, Calc I and Statistics at the CC before transferring to the university (where she has taken Linear Algebra, Calc II/III and Advanced Calculus, Differential Equations, Transitions to Higher Math (Proofs), Modern Algebra, Mathematical Statistics I/II, Geometry).

 

Anyway, they all work. Just keep learning math you don't know. :)

 

Lori

 

PS I teach from Saxon in the private Christian school where I teach fulltime this year. I really like the new Saxon middle grades texts--Course 1, 2, and 3.

[LUV2EDU]

 

Think about it...if your child couldn't write a paragraph, you wouldn't ask them to write an essay! Yet, we routinely take kids who don't know their math facts, can't manipulate fractions with numeracy, and ask them to learn Algebra. :)

 

So, start with math they know. Then work on "the next thing" every single day. Every. Single. Day. Even if (especially if!) math is not their favorite subject--or yours.

 

 

 

:iagree:

 

This is so true. I just want to get the best math curriculum that explains what, how, and why.

Edited April 16, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[Rosie_0801]

:iagree:

 

This is so true. I just want to get the best math curriculum that explains what, how, and why.

 

Like everyone says, that depends what you need and how you need it explained to you. I'm feeling confident with MOTL for K-8. It seems very thorough and hands on; and is designed so moving topics to accommodate kids who haven't learned their maths facts yet is quite easy. There's info in there about how to teach to different styles and how to tell if your child isn't developmentally ready for a topic. I think asking for the best program for college prep might be looking at the issue from the wrong end.

 

Rosie

[LUV2EDU]

Like everyone says, that depends what you need and how you need it explained to you. I'm feeling confident with MOTL for K-8. It seems very thorough and hands on; and is designed so moving topics to accommodate kids who haven't learned their maths facts yet is quite easy. There's info in there about how to teach to different styles and how to tell if your child isn't developmentally ready for a topic. I think asking for the best program for college prep might be looking at the issue from the wrong end.

 

Rosie

 

What does MOTL stand for?

[KidsHappen]

The number 4 is listed when you select the poll. However, maybe the computer allows you to change that number. :001_smile:

 

Yes, you can change the number.

[KidsHappen]

I also voted other. You really have to find something that works for each individual student. I have two high schoolers. One use Math-U-See the other uses TT. They have different learning styles. One needs to see it to get it the other learns best by reading words that describe what to do. I needed a teacher to walk me through everything at least three or four times.

[LUV2EDU]

Yes, you can change the number.

 

Thanks!:001_smile:

[Rosie_0801]

What does MOTL stand for?

 

Sorry, Math on the Level. I like to use acronyms so I can feel cool like everyone else :lol:

They are here: http://www.mathonthelevel.com/

and here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mathonthelevel/

 

Rosie

[Michelle in MO]

and bear in mind I'm not a "math" mom, but I hang around on the high school forums a lot.

 

My recommendations would be:

 

1. Chalkdust--if you're like me and need all the extra hand-holding you can manage

2. Dolciani or Foerster's for Algebra--I've read lots of good things about them, and if you're the type of mom who can teach from these texts.

3. Lial's for Algebra I and II, Trig. and Precalculus

[MomsintheGarden]

We've used Chalkdust for Algebra I through Calculus, for my math-oriented two oldest. It's been very good prep for my oldest, now acing his math classes in engineering school.

 

I agree with redoing the poll with more choices, on the high school board.

 

GardenMom

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

Think about it...if your child couldn't write a paragraph, you wouldn't ask them to write an essay! Yet, we routinely take kids who don't know their math facts, can't manipulate fractions with numeracy, and ask them to learn Algebra. :)

 

Gotta respectfully disagree with that. Those are two independent skills.

My sister never learnt her math facts. She switched schools in third grade. Her previous school was teaching multiplications in third grade, the new school taught it in second grade. She got a couple of minutes of explanations, and that was it. She made it to engineering, including a Masters degree.

 

As for me, I have no reason not to know my math facts, but I counted on my fingers until I was allowed a calculator. I also have an engineering degree, with extra studies in pure and theoretical physics. My math skills are also at the Masters degree.

 

Math reasoning does *not* depend on math memorization, and in fact can be hindered by it. The fact we never knew our math skills taught out extra skills, like approximation - which was not taught in school at the time.

 

 

ETA: On a totally unrelated note, this is post # 1,111 for me. I'm BINARY!

Edited April 16, 2009 by CleoQc

[JFSinIL]

Is Chalk Dust Company's PreAlgebra as good as it looks?

 

I really enjoyed looking at the PreAlgebra Video Demo. The Video was on Order of Operations. The instructor really knows how to explain mathematical concepts.:001_smile:

 

YES!!!! DD is using it right now. I will be selling it end of summer.;) (if anyone is interested....)

[LUV2EDU]

Sorry, Math on the Level. I like to use acronyms so I can feel cool like everyone else :lol:

They are here: http://www.mathonthelevel.com/

and here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/mathonthelevel/

 

Rosie

 

 

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

.if your child couldn't write a paragraph, you wouldn't ask them to write an essay! Yet, we routinely take kids who don't know their math facts, can't manipulate fractions with numeracy, and ask them to learn Algebra.

 

This is not true for all kids. When my dd was not memorizing her multiplication tables, I had a consult with someone familiar with gifted children. I was told to let her move ahead. She would be forced to know her math facts or it would take forever to do the problems. That is exactly what we did and it worked.

[LUV2EDU]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoriM

Think about it...if your child couldn't write a paragraph, you wouldn't ask them to write an essay! Yet, we routinely take kids who don't know their math facts, can't manipulate fractions with numeracy, and ask them to learn Algebra.

 

 

Gotta respectfully disagree with that. Those are two independent skills.

 

My sister never learnt her math facts. She switched schools in third grade. Her previous school was teaching multiplications in third grade, the new school taught it in second grade. She got a couple of minutes of explanations, and that was it. She made it to engineering, including a Masters degree.

 

 

That is good about your sister making it to engineering without knowing all of her math facts.:001_smile:

 

However, I understand LoriM's point of view. Your sister had to learn multiplication in order to tackle division. Even if she hasn't memorized her multiplication tables, she still had to use grouping of addition (five groups of 10 [5x10]) to get the answers.

Edited April 16, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[Michelle in MO]

To the OP: I think you'd have better success asking this question on the high school forums, and offering many more choices on your poll. I have a very high regard for LoriM, Jann in TX, Jane in NC, and the other math whizzes over there.

 

In fact, their advice (and math expertise) has helped rescue us from some real pitfalls!

Edited April 16, 2009 by Michelle in MO

[sleepy]

To the OP: I think you'd have better success asking this question on the high school forums, and offering many more choices on your poll. I have a very high regard for LoriM, Jann in TX, Jane in NC, and the other math whizzes over there.

 

In fact, their advice (and math expertise) has helped rescue us from some real pitfalls!

 

Great idea! It never hurts to ask the experts. :001_smile:

[LUV2EDU]

To the OP: I think you'd have better success asking this question on the high school forums, and offering many more choices on your poll. I have a very high regard for LoriM, Jann in TX, Jane in NC, and the other math whizzes over there.

 

In fact, their advice (and math expertise) has helped rescue us from some real pitfalls!

 

Okay, I posted this on the High School board with more options for the poll.

 

Click here for High School board http://www.welltrainedmind.com/forums/showthread.php?t=94618

[Hillary in KS]

This is not true for all kids. When my dd was not memorizing her multiplication tables, I had a consult with someone familiar with gifted children. I was told to let her move ahead. She would be forced to know her math facts or it would take forever to do the problems. That is exactly what we did and it worked.

 

So, after you moved on, how long did it take for her to memorize her times tables? Did she decide to sit down and study? Or did she just get faster at recalling them in the course of doing the problems?

 

I have to admit, I'm curious. Isn't your daughter 7 or 8? Do you have older children that you've done college prep math with?

[LUV2EDU]

So, after you moved on, how long did it take for her to memorize her times tables? Did she decide to sit down and study? Or did she just get faster at recalling them in the course of doing the problems?

 

I have to admit, I'm curious. Isn't your daughter 7 or 8? Do you have older children that you've done college prep math with?

 

Does your signature say, What you talking about, Willis (Whatcha talkin' 'bout, Willis)?:001_smile:

 

¿De qué estas hablando, Willis?

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[Hillary in KS]

Does your signature say, What you talking about, Willis (Whatcha talkin' 'bout, Willis)?:001_smile:

 

 

LOL! Yes.

 

:D

[LUV2EDU]

LOL! Yes.

 

:D

 

LOL! :lol:

 

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

So, after you moved on, how long did it take for her to memorize her times tables? Did she decide to sit down and study? Or did she just get faster at recalling them in the course of doing the problems?

 

I have to admit, I'm curious. Isn't your daughter 7 or 8? Do you have older children that you've done college prep math with?

 

When dd was 3, she did not want to do any kind of simple addition problem. 24+24, um no thanks. But, if you gave her simple variables to figure out like 24+x=48 or 48-x=24, she loved those. This is kind of the way it went with multiplication. I tried flash cards, quizzing her in the car, multiplication.com, times tables the fun way, you name it. Nope. This is when I called for backup.

 

She didn't start learning her tables until she started long division. One day, I decided to go over some factoring stuff with her just for fun. It was amazing- the information was just - there. Now multiplication and division are easy, even though math is not my dd's strongest subject by any stretch of the imagination.

 

I wouldn't advise taking this approach on the fly. I only did it after talking to a professional who was familiar with my kid and has seen this type of thing before. But had I held my daughter back until she had her times tables down, we would still be sitting here doing elementary school math, and my dd would be miserable. So, although I do agree that some students need to wait and get the facts down before moving on, that is not true for all kids.

 

Fortunately (grin), she's our only child. I don't know what we would do if we had two of these. :001_huh:

[C_l_e_0..Q_c]

So, although I do agree that some students need to wait and get the facts down before moving on, that is not true for all kids.

 

There's even a school of thought that states no kid should have to memorize their math facts. The Quebec math guru (and Quebec has very strong scores in math internationally) is pushing to remove the memorization component completely, for every kid.

 

His point of view is that it's better to know that 7 * 8 is the same as (4*8)+(3*8) It shows a better understanding of math, and a clearer grasp of mental math techniques than rote memorization.

[OnTheBrink]

Having a son that I homeschooled through the high school years, I have to say, knowing math facts is very important--foundational, even. If you can understand algebraic concepts, but can't add or subtract, you're going to get the answers wrong.

 

We did Saxon unsuccessfully, then Jacob's unsuccessfully, then a college math prof gave us a college text that clicked with my son. So, sometimes finding the right text for the student can be a chore. However, in my specific situation, my son was in ps until 9th grade, when I pulled him out. He went through 8 years of ps not knowing his math facts well, but could understand the concepts of higher math. He couldn't DO the math, because if you can't add or subtract exponents, you're pretty much screwed. LOL In the 4 years I homeschooled him, we went from working at a elementary math level to testing into college algebra for his freshman year of college, so we must have been doing something right.

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

There's even a school of thought that states no kid should have to memorize their math facts. The Quebec math guru (and Quebec has very strong scores in math internationally) is pushing to remove the memorization component completely, for every kid.

 

His point of view is that it's better to know that 7 * 8 is the same as (4*8)+(3*8) It shows a better understanding of math, and a clearer grasp of mental math techniques than rote memorization.

 

Yet another reason to greatly admire our friends to the north. :D

 

I have run into students while tutoring that were not getting the facts because they really didn't understand the concepts. Like, if you gave then manipulatives, they couldn't show you that 7*8 is 8 groups of 7. Even worse, I ran into a few who knew the facts because they had been drilled, but still didn't understand the concept.

[LUV2EDU]

Yet another reason to greatly admire our friends to the north. :D

 

I have run into students while tutoring that were not getting the facts because they really didn't understand the concepts. Like, if you gave then manipulatives, they couldn't show you that 7*8 is 8 groups of 7. Even worse, I ran into a few who knew the facts because they had been drilled, but still didn't understand the concept.

 

This is why I took my 12 year old back to the basics. Although he knew his place values, he didn't understand the concept behind it. For example:

 

0.4= 4/10 ,because the 4 is in the tenths place.

 

0.41= 41/100 ,because the 1 is in the hundredths place.

Edited April 19, 2009 by LUV2EDU

[ccmom]

I agree what some posters said that "whatever works best for the student" to help him/her master the material would be the best math prep for college.

 

My son is only 13 years old, but is definitely mastering math with Ray's arithmetic. We used Calvert Math and Saxon Math, but keep going back to Ray's arithmetic because of its emphasis on mastery and good comprehensive practice. I have compared Ray's to Saxon and Calvert and have found that Ray's provides more in depth practice and explanation through extensive application.

 

I'm interested to hear what works for others.