Math facts

[Alice]

This may be a silly question...but I'm wondering how well you make sure your kids know their math facts before moving on. We're using Singapore 1A right now and moving slowly which I'm fine with. We're doing Addition within 10 now and ds is doing great. He definitely gets the concept but doesn't have all the facts memorized. If I saw 7 + 3, I can see him think about it for a few seconds while he counts in his head and then he'll say 10. I'm fine with that and I'm happy that he seems to understand what he's doing.

 

But I have seen a lot of advice from people to "make sure they know the math facts before moving on." I'm wondering if I should keep focusing on addition until he really has them all down and memorized or move forward while continuing to review the addition facts. I'm not trying to hurry him forward but I'm afraid he's getting bored and I don't want him to lose interest in Math which is something he really likes.

[Spy Car]

Alice, if you get the Right Start card games, after 2 or 3 sessions playing "Go of the Dump" the pairs that make 10 "math facts" can be cemented in a fun way. At least that was our experience last month (or so) with my 4.7 year old.

 

I like the idea of keeping the concepts coming, keeping the mind challenged and engaged, combined with fun ways to do the low-level (but utilitarian) brain work involved in retaining "math facts". But I wouldn't stop with higher level thought to "drill" math facts. Not me.

 

Bill

[Alice]

Thanks Bill. I'll check out those games. I have a bunch of games I've made up and that's mostly what we do for "drill". Good to hear that you think it makes sense to keep moving forward while we keep reviewing. That was kind of my gut feeling but being my first I always second-guess myself. :)

[Spy Car]

Thanks Bill. I'll check out those games. I have a bunch of games I've made up and that's mostly what we do for "drill". Good to hear that you think it makes sense to keep moving forward while we keep reviewing. That was kind of my gut feeling but being my first I always second-guess myself. :)

 

At the end of the day you don't want your child (at some point) to be floundering around for 6 + 3. It's only how you get there.

 

I think many parents, believing this aspect of math is of paramount importance, move to anxiety producing methods, "drill and kill" or what have you, and a terrible price is often paid for that decision.

 

The Right Start author wrote in a forward of one of her books that "the only people that like being drilled are those who don't need it". So other ways, be they Cuisenaire Rods, an AL Abacus, Right Start Games, cards with dots on them, talley sticks, number bonds...I could go on and on...will keep the lights on, keep the enthusiasm high (no one learns well when they are stressed or filled with anxiety) and "math facts" will come. Treat it like a game (or games).

 

Bill

Edited April 15, 2009 by Spy Car

[Stephanie/MO]

...advice. I will check this out too.

Blessings,

Stephanie

[sagira]

Great question. I was thinking about this too. My ds is five too, and my first child. We're done with MCP Math K now, but he doesn't have his math facts "down." We're starting slowly with MCP Math Level A, of which the first five chapters are all repeat and Kindergarten stuff, so we'll be reviewing and cementing in everything first.

 

Games! Why is so hard for my brain to get this? :tongue_smilie:

 

Thanks, SpyCar!

[Alice]

I like the book Peggy Kaye's Games for Math (the Games for Reading is also good). It gives me a lot of ideas for simple quick games I can make myself. I ended up buying it but my library had it so I could take a look at it first.

[Spy Car]

Think of all the real word opportunities we had to make "games".

 

It's "clean-up time"" there are 5 cars on the floor, if we put away 2, how many are left?

 

Three. Very good! 5 - 2 = 3.

 

And so on...

 

Bill

[LadyAberlin]

The funny thing is that In my calculus classes in college those of us who were really good at math had trouble remembering the facts or were slow to remembering them. I see that quite a lot. I've always wondered if those of us who loved math were slow with math facts because we weren't drilled to death and because we weren't drilled to death we all love math.

[Spy Car]

The funny thing is that In my calculus classes in college those of us who were really good at math had trouble remembering the facts or were slow to remembering them. I see that quite a lot. I've always wondered if those of us who loved math were slow with math facts because we weren't drilled to death and because we weren't drilled to death we all love math.

 

It's funny but I read a book recently by the Noble Prize winning physicist Richard Feynman Surely You're Joking, Mr. Feynman! and I remember an aside he made about himself and many other great mathematicians not necessarily being especially good at basic arithmetic. Interesting.

 

Bill

[Amber in AUS]

I would have to agree with the PP. I was good at math in school, but wasn't fast. I was methodical and still count on my fingers sometimes but I was good. I had good understanding of the concepts and wasn't drilled at all! I'm not even sure if my Mum knows the multiplication tables, lol.

 

For me I want my DC to know how to work it out and have some automacisity to it, but not drill and kill. We play the RS games which we love and some others I have invented. We are using MOTL so I keep the new concepts coming and review what we know all the time.

 

I have intro'ed 2 digit addition and now she can see the point of the single digit addition she is driven to do more. Sometimes I think they need to see a little more of the puzzle to have the drive to work out the first part IYKWIM.

[Alice]

The funny thing is that In my calculus classes in college those of us who were really good at math had trouble remembering the facts or were slow to remembering them. I see that quite a lot. I've always wondered if those of us who loved math were slow with math facts because we weren't drilled to death and because we weren't drilled to death we all love math.

 

That is interesting. From my own perspective I did well in upper level Math (Calculus in high school and Multivariate Calculus in college) but I'm not very good at doing Math in my head. I was also one of those people in Calculus and Geometry that always got the answer right but did the problem "wrong" or at least differently from the teacher. Luckily I had teachers that were ok with that.

 

Interesting thoughts..maybe I'll just skip the math facts with my son and move on to Calculus. ;)

 

Seriously, thanks for all the responses. It helped me to think through my approach with my son. Right now he really likes the games that drill the facts. Often he asks to play them on his own. I'll keep up with that kind of thing that is fun for him but move on to other concepts.

Edited April 16, 2009 by Alice

[Chris in VA]

Hi Alice--

Chiming in just to say that Saxon math still drills math facts up to 5th grade. Mastery isn't expected until 3rd grade, and then it's 100 mixed facts in 4 minutes (about 2 and a half secs for each).

My point is, he's got plenty of time.

 

Hope you, kiddos, and baby are fine!:D

[Alice]

Thanks Chris! We just went on a hike at Huntley Meadows last week and I was thinking of you guys. Hope you are all well.

[Laura Corin]

I didn't make sure the boys knew their maths facts before moving on. Hobbes still (shock!) counts on his fingers sometimes. But, through use, he has most of them down now without having done any strict drilling. We played some maths board games when he was smaller, and he now does a twenty-question timed test each day to improve his speed, but that's about it. We use Singapore.

 

Laura

[LadyAberlin]

In reply to Spy car. I don't know how to do quotation boxes. My dad is the top design engineer at his company. He's an electrical engineer and designs seismic equipment. He even is slow on his arithmetic, but he really knows calculus and physics LOL. I will say over the yrs of tutoring kids in math I myself have gotten faster. I still hate doing math in my head. I have to write it all down. Which actually gets you points on college math exams:tongue_smilie:

[HFClassicalAcademy]

I just blogged about this recently, and came to the conclusion that we were stopping for a couple of weeks to drill math facts. I have a ds who is doing Saxon Math 2 and my dd is just starting into Saxon Math 1.

 

I am using Calculadders and will make my own math drill sheets for my dd that go with the Saxon Math order: doubles first and so forth.

 

I actually posted the doubles worksheets, if anyone is interested in using them. As we get farther along, I'll probably keep posting them until I feel like my dd can start using Calculadders (I'm guessing this won't happen until next year when she starts Saxon 2).

 

Liz in NC

 

**Oh! And someone had also recommended the FlashMaster to me as well!

[Spy Car]

Interesting thoughts..maybe I'll just skip the math facts with my son and move on to Calculus. ;)

 

 

You know there is a fellow named Donald Cohen "The Mathman" who has written a calculus program for children 7 and up called Calculus By and For Young People ;)

 

I'm just saying :D

 

Bill

[Spy Car]

I just blogged about this recently, and came to the conclusion that we were stopping for a couple of weeks to drill math facts. I have a ds who is doing Saxon Math 2 and my dd is just starting into Saxon Math 1.

 

I am using Calculadders and will make my own math drill sheets for my dd that go with the Saxon Math order: doubles first and so forth.

 

I actually posted the doubles worksheets, if anyone is interested in using them. As we get farther along, I'll probably keep posting them until I feel like my dd can start using Calculadders (I'm guessing this won't happen until next year when she starts Saxon 2).

 

Liz in NC

 

**Oh! And someone had also recommended the FlashMaster to me as well!

 

Liz, I will just gently caution that I have read thread after thread where parents, after following the advice of Saxon math, and drilling their children with "math facts" and even giving young kids "timed tests", have come to these boards distraught about their children (who one enjoyed math) now hating it, and completely closing down.

 

So the thing that would concern me with a Flashmaster or Calculadders is are they being used in a spirit of "fun", or especially in the case of the Flashmaster, is it simply automating the source of anxiety?

 

My feeling is "anxiety" about math is the greatest problem we face in math education. As soon as a child feels "stupid" the problems begin. Since we have the abilities to tailor instruction to our children's needs, we can find the right ways to help them learn, and on their own schedules and in their own time.

 

But in the back (or is it the front?) of our minds I think we have to ask ourselves if the methods we are using are keeping the mind open, receptive and growing, or shutting them down.

 

Just musing :001_smile:

 

Bill

[Hathersage]

You know there is a fellow named Donald Cohen "The Mathman" who has written a calculus program for children 7 and up called Calculus By and For Young People ;)

 

I'm just saying :D

 

Bill

 

Caculus without Tears was written for 4 grade and up.

http://www.berkeleyscience.com/index.htm

 

Just another option...:)

[Alice]

You know there is a fellow named Donald Cohen "The Mathman" who has written a calculus program for children 7 and up called Calculus By and For Young People ;)

 

I'm just saying :D

 

Bill

 

Well, since ds is only 5 I have a few years yet to brush up on my Calculus. ;)

[Blessedfamily]

You've already gotten this answer, but we use Singapore, and we did not drill math facts. DD learned them through playing home-made games.

 

She was motivated to remember them because she wanted to win.

[Spy Car]

Caculus without Tears was written for 4 grade and up.

http://www.berkeleyscience.com/index.htm

 

Just another option...:)

 

Thanks for the link. I'm going to take a good look. It's a ways off for us, but I love the idea of exposing children to concepts in a fashion they can comprehend in an age appropriate way.

 

Bill

[Amber in AUS]

Spy, you make me laugh. :smilielol5: Are you mathy or what? Do you teach your DS anything else? :lol:

[Spy Car]

Spy, you make me laugh. :smilielol5: Are you mathy or what? Do you teach your DS anything else? :lol:

 

You know? I make myself laugh :lol:

 

And the weirdest thing? I never thought of myself as "mathy". More of a history, literature, art, politics, kind of fellow.

 

And I was concerned about math. But by "dumb luck". Reading a lot of threads here, coming across the right books and materials, learning to trust my ability to get concepts across to my son, and to steal good ideas wherever I find them, and to keep hitting thing in different ways...well I've just found a passion :D

 

And I'm amazed what a child can learn if you figure out how to put it in terms they understand.

 

OK, I'm a nut :tongue_smilie:

 

We are also learning to read :lol:

 

Cook. Plant gardens. Paint (little help from me). Play soccer. Just play. And we read a lot of great stories.

 

Bill

[FO4UR]

You know there is a fellow named Donald Cohen "The Mathman" who has written a calculus program for children 7 and up called Calculus By and For Young People ;)

 

I'm just saying :D

 

Bill

 

:lol: I'll be watching for you to blog about this when your ds is 7yo!:tongue_smilie:

 

 

Seriously - you've got some good thoughts here.

 

My ds6 is in the middle of SM1A, and we have an eclectic math day in our home too. On some things - he'll sing the little RS song "Yellow is the Sun" to remember 5+ or -5, other times I can tell he's thinking black-red=? He goes from the physical manipulative -to the mental manipulative (visualizing the rods for ex) - to not needing the manipulatives. ftr - he still used the manipulatives a lot, but I'm seeing the pattern emerge. I think the eclectic mix helps to cement the facts as well as the concept -

[Spy Car]

:lol: I'll be watching for you to blog about this when your ds is 7yo!:tongue_smilie:

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

...other times I can tell he's thinking black-red=?

 

Oooh! Ooooh! I know this one..pick me! pick me!

 

Yellow :D

 

Bill :tongue_smilie:

[Tree House Academy]

That is part of the reason we switched from Singapore. My little guy was like yours and doing great, but I didn't even realize he was supposed to be memorizing the facts yet. We went to CLE Math (not that I am suggesting you switch at all...) and the TG tells you when to introduce each math fact. Then you flash them every.single.day. My younger thinks it is fun. My older thinks I am some kind of slave driver. LOL But it is working!

[Jen in PA]

My DD (turning 6 in July) is flying through Singapore PM 2A using number lines and her fingers for the facts she hasn't learned. She picks up a lot of math facts from repeated use, and has figured out some very creative shortcuts to get through her work more quickly. I keep thinking that I'll stop and work on fact memorization when she hits a wall, but the concepts just seem to sink in for her. I remember reading somewhere on these boards that many kids eventually want to work on memorization so that they can get through the work faster, and I guess I'm counting on that happening with her at some point.