TRISMS users?

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

I'm contemplating using TRISMS next year. I have been putting history together myself. While dh and I are pleased with the input dd has received, it is a LOT of work, and the amount of output on dd's part needs to be increased a bit.

 

I like the idea of TRISMS, that it is research based using various sources. I love that it incorporated IEW, which we already use. Dh likes that it incorporates science history. There are some things we'd like to know in order to help us make our decision. Hopefully some of you guys have opinions to share.

 

I'm not sure whether I would start with HM or DAW. I have a young advanced student and I'm used to tweaking curriculum to fit her. This wouldn't be her first experience with HS level text. I am wondering if starting with HM would be best to gently get her used to the TRISMS way of doing things. It would also involve little to no tweaking on my part, which is tempting. At the same time, I don't particularly like the idea of a crashing through history from the ancients to the modern world in one year or even 2. I much prefer the idea of studying each time period in-depth. Input and opinions welcome.

 

I also wonder if anyone has any input to share as to using this from a secular POV. We WANT dd to learn about the history of Christianity, along with other religions. We also want her to think about how religion has had both a positive AND negative impact on events. From what I see, TRISMS does not espouse a particular faith, but the questionaires do include questions on religious history. It seems easy enough to change up the questionaires if needed to include Islam, etc. Do the tests and quizzes include questions based on researching the history of one particular religion over another?

 

Is there a good supplimental lit program that goes along with this? I know excerpts are included in the student materials, but I would like to do some studies of the full works if possible- more than book reports.

 

I'd love to hear the good/bad/ugly from folks that have used this up close and personal. TIA! :001_smile:

[asta]

I'm not sure whether I would start with HM or DAW. I have a young advanced student and I'm used to tweaking curriculum to fit her. This wouldn't be her first experience with HS level text. I am wondering if starting with HM would be best to gently get her used to the TRISMS way of doing things. It would also involve little to no tweaking on my part, which is tempting. At the same time, I don't particularly like the idea of a crashing through history from the ancients to the modern world in one year or even 2. I much prefer the idea of studying each time period in-depth. Input and opinions welcome.

 

HM is solidly a middle school/jr high program, NOT a high school program. It is also "world history to present" (because it is truncated to a lower level). This is not what one normally does in High School. To make it 9-12, you would have to add in quite a bit of work, and extend it through multiple years (IOW, make it be a base for further study, just as the authors have done with the following volumes).

 

DAW is, strictly, the ancient world: 3500BC-500BC. Not Greece or Rome as we think of them in "Classical Education" - ancient. I actually bought it and never used it because, after looking at it, I decided I didn't want to start completely over in history (think: Lascaux Caves) - we had already done that in 8th grade.

 

The next one, Expansion of Civilization (500BC-1500AD) is where you get Greece, Rome, some other stuff (you can see the scope and sequence on their site), and early middle ages. Very early. You don't actually study what most people consider "the middle ages" until the following volume, Rise of Nations.

 

I also wonder if anyone has any input to share as to using this from a secular POV. We WANT dd to learn about the history of Christianity, along with other religions. We also want her to think about how religion has had both a positive AND negative impact on events. From what I see, TRISMS does not espouse a particular faith, but the questionaires do include questions on religious history. It seems easy enough to change up the questionaires if needed to include Islam, etc. Do the tests and quizzes include questions based on researching the history of one particular religion over another?

 

We are using TRISMS from a non-religious standpoint. One thing to realize (as you already know) is that Western history is imbued with Christian references. It is simply impossible to study Rome and not look at the influence of the Church. During the Rome unit, one of the suggestions (and while there is a "you should do this" part, there is a HUGE "suggestions" part that you can use as substitutes or extra work) was to watch the movie "Ben Hur" (the Charleton Heston version). It was awesome. It was fascinating for both kiddo and I to see the enormity of what chariot races were, to get a concept of how easily a person's fortunes could change. Was it religious? Of course it was! It was all about how faith redeemed all. Specifically, early Christian faith. But it was beautifully done, and presented a very hopeful alternative to what most of the people living at that time must have been enduring.

 

Does this stop me from a discussion in any realm? No. In fact, it opened things up for "Why was the Christ such a threat to the Romans? What were they practicing that would cause them to not believe what this man was saying?" Etc. TRISMS also has the student read myths/stories from whatever time period/culture is being studied, so comparisons come quite naturally.

 

As far as Islam is concerned, well, we haven't even gotten to the right point in history yet! We're still hanging out with the pre-Islamic Persians right now. Last year we read a biography of Muhammed that was actually written by an Islamic organization (it seemed like a better idea than reading one from a "western" perspective). As we move forward in history, Islam will just naturally come into play. The religion questionnaires don't ask about a specific anything - they ask a general question, and the student fills in the blanks from research. If I wanted kiddo to research Scientology, I could have him do a questionnaire on that! (it obviously wouldn't be in the answer key, but you get my point).

 

The tests do not espouse one anything. They are very short, fill in the blanks things that hit the main points of the unit. If the unit is on a culture that is primarily (fill in the blank faith) it may or may not have a question. I honestly believe that the authors included the little tests and vocabulary reviews just so harried parents would have something to shove in the faces of skeptics, not as a proof of learning - that is obvious in the child's research and in discussions.

 

Is there a good supplimental lit program that goes along with this? I know excerpts are included in the student materials, but I would like to do some studies of the full works if possible- more than book reports.

 

I'd love to hear the good/bad/ugly from folks that have used this up close and personal. TIA! :001_smile:

 

The "spine" I used in HM was "A Little History of the World" by Gombrich. Kiddo loved it, and the "story-style" he uses was a wonderful break from wading through research. I did not start EoC with a spine, but am going back to one for next year: "The Story of Mankind" by VanLoon is written in a similar style to the Gombrich book. It starts with the "Big Bang" and covers to the late 1990s (the newest version is edited by John M. Merriman, as VanLoon's version only went up to the end of WWI). VanLoon's original work is available as a free download on Gutenberg.org. I have found that both Gombrich's and VanLoon's work follows the same "schedule" as TRISMS. Unfortunately, neither goes as far "East" as does TRISMS, but that is easy enough to supplement.

 

TRISMS is not only excerpts. At numerous points, the student has to read an entire work and do a writing exercise in regards to it. You are able to choose which work it is, within the parameters of the type (biography, fiction, history, etc.). One thing I have found valuable is that the excerpts they choose tend to be the ones that everyone ends up referring to as "the crux" of a given work. I know many will disagree with me, but I really believe that most of the "Great Books" are simply too complex for a 14-15 year old (much less an elementary student!). Heck, colleges have great books programs that center around these works. I find it perfectly reasonable that a high school student would only "touch" on the majority of these works.

 

I had a "crisis of the faith" in regards to TRISMS this year: kiddo was telling me he hated it, etc. etc. I have thought long and hard about it, and have done a ton of research, as well as speaking some more with my child. The conclusion we came to was that it wasn't TRISMS per se, but rather that, since I hadn't included a "spine" this year, he was having trouble stringing the concepts together. I was also pushing him faster than is reasonable for his learning style. Finally, he is a visual kinesthetic learner; I simply wasn't adding in enough "other" stimulation (historical movies, looking at art, field trips) to make him feel content. Now that I have begun adding these things back in (LOVE History Channel productions), his attitude has turned around.

 

Additionally, I was really concerned that he wasn't learning "literary analysis". I strongly considered buying a different program that focused on that. Then I started researching "literary analysis" and discovered that we had been doing it all along - the program is all about critical thinking and discussion. The one thing I did do was to download a list of "literary terminology" so that we know the terms. I have also purchased a Socratic Logic book by Kreeft to add in next year, as I personally feel that he needs more than is offered in the program (it does have Rhetoric and Logic, but it is not as intense).

 

Finally, although we both adore the basic IEW and feel it is "enough" for what we are doing, I will be purchasing both their "High School Essay Intensive" (to prep him for the timed SAT essay) and the "Advanced Communication Series" to give him more tools for note taking towards college (he really needs explicit methods to do things).

 

Of course, as with all homeschoolers, we have an absurdly large library. Everything from Eastern to Western religions to complete science (Botany, Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Anatomy & Physiology) to esoteric (Mythology of Greeks, Romans, American Indians (north and south), Chinese, Japanese, etc., Herbalism, Celtic traditions, Witchcraft, Tarot) to history reference books spanning the globe -- there is never a moment that we don't "add in" something that seems appropriate to the subject or time period.

 

Does that answer your question? Feel free to ask me anything else, and I'll try to answer.

 

 

asta

[asta]

ETA:

 

I just started to map out the final half of EoC, and the section on Islam is in it. It is quite good, and does have a comparative assignment.

 

Also, EoC goes to 1500, so the "high" middle ages are addressed.

 

 

asta

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

WOW, WOW, and WOW!!!! :drool5: My DQ (drool quotient) just increased 50%. Thank you so much for taking the time to provide so much info!

 

As far as the other resources available from TRISMS, like the writer's guide, etc...have you found any of these to be an absolute must have?

Edited April 15, 2009 by Academy of Jedi Arts

[asta]

I have never bought any of their other books, but I already own a historical atlas, Usborne's World History, and Gombrich's "A Story of Art".

 

I particularly find no use for their big blank wall maps (we just have an actual, Peter's projection map on the wall) or their timeline stuff. I have DS make a powerpoint slide summarizing the info he has learned in each unit. That way, he has something visual, that he has had to edit, and that requires computer skills.

 

The history books I use (eg: I have kiddo read appropriate sections before searching for anything on the internet):

 

Usborne Internet Linked Encyclopedia of World History (surprisingly good, and a great overview-jumping-off point).

 

Oxford University Press' "World Atlas of the Past" series (vol 1-4)

 

Prof. Geoffrey Parker's "Compact History of the World" (A History of the world from the Stone Age to the Space Age) by Barnes and Noble Press

 

It is TOTALLY worth it to get on the "e-mail list" for Oxford; when they have sales, they are huge. Same for Barnes and Noble. I got my History Channel DVDs from them the last time they had a 50% off sale.

 

 

asta

[asta]

Oh - the writing!

 

Honestly, the best thing I ever did was have kiddo do "Analytical Grammar". I don't like her essay supplement at all (IMO, IEW's method is much better) but her grammar instruction is what I credit for his writing ability (he is quite good, though he prefers other things).

 

 

asta

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Funny you should mention it, but AG is one of the grammar programs I have been looking at.

 

Thanks for the titles. That will be helpful since our library is often hit or miss when it comes to what we want for history. I prefer laying a foundation with books before going to the internet also.

[ddandgirls]

So glad to hear that others had better success with this program than we did. We tried Trisms History Makers last year and after a few weeks tossed it out. We switched to TOG. I felt that I was still having to pull too much together: researching books, there's no real spine, and it felt too disjointed, we weren't making any real connections, just finding the facts. Also, not enough teacher helps for me for introducing literature discussions, etc. Maybe the upper levels would have been better for us.

 

Maybe I wasn't implementing it as well as some others. It gave me names and dates for her to research, but not any assistance to teach her how to go deeper that just the surface, who, what, where, when.

 

What works for some doesn't work for others. You may have better luck than I did.:001_smile:

 

D-

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

That's what I don't want- just a fact finding mission. I want a fact finding mission with a purpose...to analyze the facts to draw conclusions instead of relying on the conclusions drawn by "insert name of textbook author here".

 

I just peeked at the samples again, and the DAW sample assignment sheet includes a lot more sections, including one called comparisons. Dh is leaning toward HM right now and I am leaning towards DAW. So thanks for this input so we can consider it in our decision.

[mamaof2andtwins]

So glad to hear that others had better success with this program than we did. We tried Trisms History Makers last year and after a few weeks tossed it out. We switched to TOG. I felt that I was still having to pull too much together: researching books, there's no real spine, and it felt too disjointed, we weren't making any real connections, just finding the facts. Also, not enough teacher helps for me for introducing literature discussions, etc. Maybe the upper levels would have been better for us.

 

Maybe I wasn't implementing it as well as some others. It gave me names and dates for her to research, but not any assistance to teach her how to go deeper that just the surface, who, what, where, when.

 

What works for some doesn't work for others. You may have better luck than I did.:001_smile:

 

D-

 

D-

 

We had the same results as you when we treid to use Expansion of Civilization this year. It was a disjoined fact finding mission with no real depth.

 

I know others do well with this. I really had hoped it would have worked for us. It was rather disappointing. Plus it really threw my history program into a tailspin for the first 20 weeks of the school year. This was not something I wanted to go through in the first year of high school.

 

Jennie

[rwalizer]

We are using DAW with my 8th grader this year and we love it. Occasionally I may leave something out (the publishers will tell you to pick and choose if you want to) in order to spend more time on a writing assignment or I may scale down an assignment from time to time, but overall ds is able to do most of what is laid out in the grid. It only takes a couple of minutes for me to search for the suggested resources on my library website and have them reserved. Often, the suggested books are not available at our library but it is easy to find other books with the same info. We also use the internet a lot, although I encourage him to use books to find answers. There are no questionnaires in DAW that deal with specific religions, but you are asked to do a little research on the beliefs of all the civilizations that you study. I researched trisms for last school year and I was afraid to use it because I thought we would spend all our time in the library trying to find answers. I just couldn't imagine how this curriculum could be practical. This year we took the plunge and we haven't regretted it. If I find that ds is having too hard a time finding answers, we turn to the answer key. It doesn't need to turn into a career. But that rarely happens even with lesser known ancient civilizations. The great thing about hsing is that you can spend all the time you want researching world religions or whatever else you feel is important. I plan to get Teaching the Classics for next year to help us learn how to discuss literature. I will say this about the literature referenced in DAW. You could have your kids read the whole works instead of the excerpts for some of the lit. such as The Odyssey, but some of the lit. is stuff that may be overwhelming. I can't imagine trying to plug through the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Ovid, the Illiad, the Odyssey, all those creation myths etc. with my 8th grader. BTW, trisms has a 30 return policy so you can preview and send back if necessary. I hope this was helpful and not just rambling.

[mamaof2andtwins]

It would have been nice if I could have actually used it for 30 or 60 days and then gotten a refund. Sometimes you just can't tell how something will work by previewing it. You have to actually use it.

 

I noticed that Sonlight does have a return policy like that. It is the first one I have seen in all my years of homeschooling.

 

Jennie

[Mandy in TN]

We had used pieces of History Makers when my oldest was in JrHigh and it was wonderful. I really like the idea of using it with Gombrich. I own A Little History, but it wasn't in English yet when we used HM.

 

We tried TRISMS EOC during first semester of my oldest ds's freshman year. My oldest ds loved it. Unfortunately, I couldn't motivate him to move through it at the speed that I expected. He could have easily spent a quarter on each unit instead of two weeks. It and my ds's rabbit trails made me crazy. He was nowhere near half way at mid-year, so second semester he used Spielvogel's Western Civ with the guide vol1 to 1715.

 

In theory I love it and I haven't parted with it, but in practice it just didn't work for us. Maybe if we had used it in JrHigh when I wasn't feeling anxiety over completing a curriculum/ high school credits, we could have enjoyed it more.

 

Oh, and I do think that the research skills that he acquired during his 1 semester with EOC have helped him this past year in his dual enrollment US history class. The prof has had him write numerous papers.

 

Mandy

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

We are using DAW with my 8th grader this year and we love it. Occasionally I may leave something out (the publishers will tell you to pick and choose if you want to) in order to spend more time on a writing assignment or I may scale down an assignment from time to time, but overall ds is able to do most of what is laid out in the grid. It only takes a couple of minutes for me to search for the suggested resources on my library website and have them reserved. Often, the suggested books are not available at our library but it is easy to find other books with the same info. We also use the internet a lot, although I encourage him to use books to find answers. There are no questionnaires in DAW that deal with specific religions, but you are asked to do a little research on the beliefs of all the civilizations that you study. I researched trisms for last school year and I was afraid to use it because I thought we would spend all our time in the library trying to find answers. I just couldn't imagine how this curriculum could be practical. This year we took the plunge and we haven't regretted it. If I find that ds is having too hard a time finding answers, we turn to the answer key. It doesn't need to turn into a career. But that rarely happens even with lesser known ancient civilizations. The great thing about hsing is that you can spend all the time you want researching world religions or whatever else you feel is important. I plan to get Teaching the Classics for next year to help us learn how to discuss literature. I will say this about the literature referenced in DAW. You could have your kids read the whole works instead of the excerpts for some of the lit. such as The Odyssey, but some of the lit. is stuff that may be overwhelming. I can't imagine trying to plug through the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Ovid, the Illiad, the Odyssey, all those creation myths etc. with my 8th grader. BTW, trisms has a 30 return policy so you can preview and send back if necessary. I hope this was helpful and not just rambling.

 

Thanks! It was very helpful indeed! It sounds like this has a lot of room for individualization, which is a good thing for us.

[asta]

We, too, are rabbit trails people.

 

Kiddo has made it through Greece, Rome, and whatever little things they put in-between, but we are just now starting (!) on what would be the "second" semester.

 

I was ill last fall and wasn't able to map things out well, but I am now able to sit down and definitively write out "read this, do this worksheet, but not that one, this writing assignment, but not that one...". We go to school year-round anyway, so I'm not too concerned.

 

I really prefer books to internet because they are portable, and we can then take our studies out of our tiny apartment...

 

 

asta

[Mandy in TN]

We, too, are rabbit trails people.

 

Kiddo has made it through Greece, Rome, and whatever little things they put in-between, but we are just now starting (!) on what would be the "second" semester.

 

I was ill last fall and wasn't able to map things out well, but I am now able to sit down and definitively write out "read this, do this worksheet, but not that one, this writing assignment, but not that one...". We go to school year-round anyway, so I'm not too concerned.

 

I really prefer books to internet because they are portable, and we can then take our studies out of our tiny apartment...

 

 

asta

The Maya and Ancient China. I think my ds checked out every book the library had on the Maya. Mayan religious ritual! Science in ancient China. These things took forever! The life of Alexander the Great was another that went longer than two weeks.

 

Oldest ds is from a previous marriage and needed to be finished in May, because spends time in the summer at his dad's.

 

Mandy

[asta]

Arg! You're right - it was Alexander the Great that completely bogged us down. There's just so MUCH involved in his history, and it seems like, if you skip anything, nothing else will make sense later...

 

I'm thinking things will move more quickly now that were at the point of more varied "accounts" of what occurred.

 

 

asta

[Academy of Jedi Arts]

Oh yeah, we are definitely rabbit trails people. That's why I need some sort of loosely constructed plan- enough room to go exploring, but a gentle reminder of where we need to go next. Otherwise, we will be chasing those rabbits for a looooooong time.