Special needs child and classical education? (long!!)

[jenaelisabeth]

My ds is 9 and will be 10 in July. He has sensory processing disorder, ADHD and possibly HF autism. He was in ps until the middle of 2nd grade. I homeschooled for a year and just freaked that he was still so behind. I tried many different curriculums and just finally gave up until I just considered us unschooling for a couple of months. Well, I found a private school that has a director with a background in special needs. There are a lot of sensory kids at this school. I decided to send my ds to this school a in February and he is thriving socially. He is with kids that are just like him which has been a blessing. We are completely struggling to pay for this school ($530 a month) and absolutely cannot afford it. They are doing School of Tomorrow (ACE) and his teacher is working to get him caught up to 4th grade level by the fall. He would normally be a 4th grader next year. The only subject he is learning in this curriculum is math. All of the other subjects are fill in the blank. I asked him what his favorite subject was and he said social studies. I asked why and he said because you just have to read a sentence and write a word. The teachers do not actually teach. It is all independent and the students raise their hands for help. He has NO idea what he is learning. So I have decided to HS him next year for financial reasons. Also, I can pick much better curriculum out that he might actually learn from. They do Latin there and he loves it although he is not retaining it for some reason. Strange since he did Spanish at his one day a week school and he learned SO much.

 

Anyways...he has no clue about states or cities or grammar. He has a writing disability. his writing would be WAY behind grade level. He does not retain information well. His IQ is 91 so he is average intelligence so I believe he IS capable. He just needs a lot of workbook reinforcement to make it stick. Also, I have a 3.5 yo, 20 month old and a new baby due in July. I am ADD myself so can be quite scatterbrained. He wants to learn these things. He was in ps for pre k , 2 years of Kinder, 1st and half of 2nd grade. He felt like a stupid failure that entire time. I mean really felt like a failure which is why I finally just decided to hs. His confidence has gone WAY up since then and he is actually more capable of learning because of that.

 

So I think what I'm asking is would it be fair to do a classical curriculum with him and where would I start? I am loving the idea of classical education! He has no creative writing skills, does not even know what a noun is and has a very short attention span. He is an auditory learner. He has to have some type of workbook to reinforce what he's learned. We tried sonlight and he loved being read to but did not retain a single thing because he did not have anything written to kind of drill it. I was thinking of Saxon math and Shurley grammar. Saxon because I have realized I NEED to be told what to do, how, what to say etc...or I won't do it. I like the looks of Shurley grammar because of the jingles and him being an auditory learner. That would most definitely stick for him. Maybe Latina Primera? He wants to and I believe he needs to learn some type of geography. Because of my time limitations I would like to pick out the most important subjects and spend the most time on those. Any maybe he could do some independent work on the other stuff? But is that really considered classical? and is it sufficient to do science once a week, history once a week? Thanks for the help and reading this far!!

 

Jennifer

[Stacy in NJ]

Classical isn't really about a set of subjects; It is language based. Reading, discussion, writing are really the core of classical education.

 

Some questions for you:

Have you read TWTM?

How well does he read? At grade level or close to it?

Can he narrate, or retell, what he's read independently?

If he can narrate, are his narrations organized? Do they have a beginning, middle, end and include relevant details?

 

My advice isn't to focus so much on specific curriulum but instead think about what you want him to be able to do.

 

Goals like these:

 

-read age appropriate fiction and non-fiction independently

-discuss/narrate in an organized fashion material read independently or read to him

-be able to identify the main structure and purpose of the material read

-remember relevant vocabulary

-retell/narrate in writing with complete sentences and appropriate grammar and spelling

 

These are all skills that develop with time and practice.

 

Curriculum is only a means to an end. Sometimes focusing too much on whether our dc know what a noun is or what the capitols of states are can get in the way of learning how to learn.

 

Just some thoughts.

[Mom22ns]

benefit from a classical education, but you may need to do some adjusting for his learning style.

 

Realize that in classical education, he shouldn't be doing any creative writing yet. That is one of the things that I like about classical education. Your son should just be learning facts. His writing is probably all the way back in the copy work stage, and I would go with a first grade level on this, one sentence at a time. I didn't have a child in classical education at that stage, so I'll let someone else recommend curriculum.

 

As far as math, I would steer clear of Saxon. The spiral is usually deadly for ADHD or autistic spectrum kids although there are exceptions. If you need to be told what to do, how about Math-U-See? If you don't like that, you might try BJU, the teacher's manual will walk you through it and it is still more mastery oriented. MUS is probably easier on you (watch the video together, do the lesson) which might help with your little ones.

 

I have known other autistic spectrum kids who did well with Shurley because it is very rule based and concrete. If the jingles work with his auditory learning - all the better.

 

How is his reading? Is he at or above grade level? If not, I would really focus there and if he is, I would use that as a tool. If he is an auditory learner, then read together a lot! You read, he reads, lots of reading. Worksheets are not a good tool for an auditory learner and not usually good for an ADHD kid either. Try to get movement and verbal processing combined as he is learning. Let him bounce on a therapy ball while he works. My son and I were having a sword fight with pool cues while we did world geography the other day. I think it was the best practice session he has had in ages. Anything that gets him up and moving not to mention talking and listening! Sitting and writing are killers to his learning style and his disabilities.

[jenaelisabeth]

Some questions for you:

 

Have you read TWTM? I have not read TWTM yet. I wanted so badly to buy it from Mardels last night but it was $40. I found it on Ebay for cheaper but I may just pay the $40. I'd like to get started reading it now.

 

How well does he read? At grade level or close to it? His reading his below grade level. He is a total sight reader. i have done HOP with him and MCP phonics but he just does not internalize those phonics rules. He will just guess at a word he does not know. I can walk him through sounding out a word but he won't do it on his own. He does read though, just not fluently if he doesn't know some of the words

 

Can he narrate, or retell, what he's read independently? He can somewhat retell a story. His processing is a bit off so sometimes what he gets from a story isn't really "it". When we were doing Sonlight and I would ask him to narrate back he would tell me a whole lot of one small section of it but forget the rest. And sometimes he's not really understanding what he's telling me back. He just can have a word for word memory at times but no concept of what he's telling you. One of the reasons his director and myself believe he could be HF autistic. For example, he can watch a tv show and if you ask him what it's about instead of giving you the idea of what it was about he can recite the entire show. I guess what it is is that he can't generalize much. So I like the idea of a classical curriculum - to get his head actually thinking. He does not think on his own.

 

If he can narrate, are his narrations organized? Do they have a beginning, middle, end and include relevant details? His thoughts are most definitely not organized, details not always relevant, and not usually a beginning, middle, end.

 

My advice isn't to focus so much on specific curriulum but instead think about what you want him to be able to do.

 

Goals like these:

 

-read age appropriate fiction and non-fiction independently

-discuss/narrate in an organized fashion material read independently or read to him

-be able to identify the main structure and purpose of the material read

-remember relevant vocabulary

-retell/narrate in writing with complete sentences and appropriate grammar and spelling

 

These are all skills that develop with time and practice.

 

Curriculum is only a means to an end. Sometimes focusing too much on whether our dc know what a noun is or what the capitols of states are can get in the way of learning how to learn.

 

Just some thoughts.

 

The reason I am concentrating so much on the curriculum is because I am so insecure about homeschooling again. I freaked out the first time and just gave up and put him in school. At times I have thought about just doing school in a box for a year just so I can gain some confidence. I know I couldn't just pick out goals and wing it because I need things laid out this time around so I will actually know what to do. He actually has asked to learn states and geography because he has realized his friends know these things and he doesn't. it seems what his friends just naturally learn he does not. It's like he really needs drill and kill. repitition his key for him.

 

thank you so much for taking this time to help. :001_smile: I would love for him to start thinking but I also want him to be learning what what he should be learning.

[jenaelisabeth]

Realize that in classical education, he shouldn't be doing any creative writing yet. That is one of the things that I like about classical education. Your son should just be learning facts. His writing is probably all the way back in the copy work stage, and I would go with a first grade level on this, one sentence at a time. I didn't have a child in classical education at that stage, so I'll let someone else recommend curriculum.

 

I am very happy to hear he doesn't need to do creative writing yet. The school he is in is requiring one report/essay a week and this is extremely difficult for him. He can definitely learn facts, that is what he is good at! And he would do very well with just copywork. This is a relief to hear because this sums up what he can actually do so maybe not as far behind as I thought?

 

As far as math, I would steer clear of Saxon. The spiral is usually deadly for ADHD or autistic spectrum kids although there are exceptions. If you need to be told what to do, how about Math-U-See? If you don't like that, you might try BJU, the teacher's manual will walk you through it and it is still more mastery oriented. MUS is probably easier on you (watch the video together, do the lesson) which might help with your little ones. We did MUS at the Alpha level and ds got frustrated (as did I) at taking all of the time to just learn facts. MUS had some good tricks but it just seemed to make math more difficult than it needed to be. I will look at the higher levels and see if it's different. Memorizing is a real strength of his so math comes a little easier for him.

 

How is his reading? Is he at or above grade level? If not, I would really focus there and if he is, I would use that as a tool. If he is an auditory learner, then read together a lot! You read, he reads, lots of reading. Worksheets are not a good tool for an auditory learner and not usually good for an ADHD kid either. Try to get movement and verbal processing combined as he is learning. Let him bounce on a therapy ball while he works. My son and I were having a sword fight with pool cues while we did world geography the other day. I think it was the best practice session he has had in ages. Anything that gets him up and moving not to mention talking and listening! Sitting and writing are killers to his learning style and his disabilities.

 

He loves loves loves to be read to and we do that a lot. But he won't actually retain it unless he has repitition. His reading is definitely not at grade level though. He is a sight reader and sometimes I wonder if I ought to just go with that and not press the phonics so much. But I just feel phonics are important but the phonics are not clicking with him.

 

You have actually made me more confident in homeschooling him. I especially like that creative writing is not necessary yet.

[EKS]

You can do this. As for curriculum, at least until you start to feel more confident, I would choose things that are scripted and have built in review. So Saxon for math, like you said, would probably be a good choice. Hake Grammar is similar to Saxon in that it presents concepts incrementally and has continual review but the lowest level is for 5th grade (I think). Growing with Grammar is fabulous and gentle and also has built in review. (I'm not familiar with Shurley.) SOTW is a great introduction to history and is very easy to use. If you're looking for secular science, K12 has good, straightforward courses which are pretty much open and go. As for Latin, I would hold off until you have some of the other subjects tackled. I have not found an elementary program that I like for geography, so I can't help you there.

 

But anyway, my point is that you can do it. Go slower if you need to. Be sure to review a lot. And don't be afraid to try something else if what you chose at first is not working. It takes a while to figure out how each kid learns best. And then once you figure it out they change.

[Mom22ns]

Read through the messages here for kids who have had trouble picking up phonics. You will find great suggestions of how to do phonics with kids that it doesn't click for :001_smile:

 

Most kids need a lot of reinforcement, and there is nothing wrong with using some workbooks or writing for some of that, but stay creative too. Use computer games, physical movement, games, story telling things that let him engage more than just his hand and his eyes because those aren't his strengths. That doesn't mean he can't do it over and over. Flash cards can be your friend, just have him read the problem out loud as well as saying the answer to double impact the verbal!

 

If you take a lot of stress off of his handwriting he can concentrate more on it as a skill of its own. It will give him time to build it. Check your local library for TWTM. It will give you guidance on writing.

 

You are right, you can do this. Don't confuse not knowing a few facts with being behind. If he can get his math and reading up to grade level, he can learn anything! Start there and then expand.

[jenaelisabeth]

Thank you so much for the encouragement. I am feeling a lot better about hs him next year with a classical approach. :001_smile:

[elise1mds]

Bless your heart! Your boy sounds so much like mine! Mine is also an auditory learner, except add to that the fun that most of his sensory issues (not all, but most) are centered around dysfunctions with auditory processing! I love what Momto2Ns said. You can do it! And you've got a whole forum around here to back you up!

[homeschool_mom]

I also tried to homeschool for a couple months about 8 years ago, but was way too overwhelmed. I tried it again several years later and it’s going much better. Although I had a lot of fear my first year, getting into a great support group really helped. My son was easily three to four years behind, and he has made huge gains in catching up.There are still some difficulties (mainly writing), but I finally found curriculums that I like. IEW and Imitation in writing are excellent and work well with reluctant writers.

I think you will find that your child will learn a lot better and retain much more being schooled at home. When you take away the stress of a full day of school, there is more time for other things.

When I first started homeschooling, I was so concerned about grade level, my ds being behind, etc. I learned that grade levels don’t matter at all. You just start where your child is now and progress as your child is ready. My son had difficulty (and still does) mastering basic facts (like multiplication), yet we moved on anyway. Kids on the spectrum and with ADHD have splinter skills. There might be big gaps, yet they might know much more advanced concepts.

I love the classical approach. We started off reading a lot of Great Illustrated Classic books.

For us, finding a good curriculum was (and still is) trial and error. Some work at times, but then they stop working.

As for doing science and history once a week, if you spent several hours on it, I think it would be adequate, but I would think doing it twice a week would be much better. We did this for a while. My son liked having different days to do individual subjects.

For science, check out Real Science for Kids or Sonlight. For history, SOTW is great!! Although my son is older, he loves it. He also loved the history fact books, like the Usborne history books. The SOTW activity guide makes it very easy for you. You don’t even need to read SOTW if you didn’t want to.

Math—I’d definitely would stay away from Saxon. Take a look at Making Math Meaningful or Rightstart. I love Rightstart—the author doesn’t believe in a lot of worksheets. Instead facts are learned and concepts are mastered through games. The other math I would suggest is Teaching Textbooks. They just came out with Math 4.

Do you have support groups in your area? Are there any co-ops?